I guess PC gaming IS dying

I'd say my notebook is more powerful than a PS4; giving consideration to console "optimization" (Which is overrated anyway). My GPU is more powerful and I have a second one to compensate for any 'optimization' that occurs.

However this horsepower talk is moot regarding PC gaming dying. Actually, the reverse is true for once in many generations. Console gaming is a bit anemic. The hardware is weaker, the games are getting more generic and most importantly, cell phones, tablets and ipods are increasing taking over the mobile gaming and casual gaming space. I believe that is one major reason that the Wii U is failing so epically.

PC gaming has never 'died' when these new beastly consoles arrive despite every single blog citing that it is when a new console launches. With Steam picking up...well...steam and online distribution working flawlessly on the PC, I am seeing PC gaming increasing in popularity; even with the launch of new consoles.

Consoles and PC gaming have their place. I will never play fighting games on PC and prefer to play racing, sports and platformers on console.

Again, the casual market is getting bigger and bigger and it's being overtaken by the handheld market. The miniaturization process of CPU/GPU technology in phones and tablets are the real threat to console gaming. That will not have much impact on PC gaming. If anything, developers will go back to actually being creative and pushing technology on the PC front as was very much the case in the 1990s and 2003-2006.

 

This is just absurd. Your posts are usually so much better than this. 3rd in popularity is not dying.

 

This thread's been sketchy from the very beginning, we've all been just playing along for 11 pages (and counting).

 

IDK, but i have to agree with HTwingnut. Game used to be fun with ton of different game play, not about climbing ledges or showing progress on facebook.

Also, I guess people on NBR mostly play western game and not realize how much less PC game are produced each successive year.

Taiwanese and Jap RPG
Jap strategy games
Chinese/Korean MMOPRG


Though PC remain the platform for indie games(fun and good stuffs) and (you get LOL, DOTA2 and minecraft!!)

I bet if LOL and dota2 can be play w/o hiccup on console/tablet/phone, PC sale will go right down to the bottom.

 

Overrated? Not really. Being able to develop a game for a specific processor with greater levels of access to that processor... that's hugely powerful.

Alot of people don't seem to understand how bad the PPC cores used in last gen consoles were. More than once it's been mentioned that developers would take a single Jaguar core over the entirety of Xenon (360 CPU). And yet games like GTA 5 are possible. The RSX doesn't even have unified shaders, its ancient ancient tech and look at the latest PS3 titles like B2S, you'd never know how bad the PS3 GPU is.

I'm not saying the PS4 and Xbone are about to surpass high end gaming notebooks or desktops, but the console optimization advantage is absolutely huge. What we've seen so far are launch titles, it's going to get much better. Compare CoD3 (PS3 release), to The Last of Us (end of the PS3) and it's obvious that the start of a consoles lifecycle is nowhere near representative of their potential.

The tragedy is that despite cutting edge silicone, PCs aren't outperforming consoles by orders of magnitudes. Whether you love or hate AMD, things like Mantle need to happen. Your hardware isn't being used close to its full potential, and that should frustrate the hell out of you. It sure frustrates me.

 

And it frustrates me to no end as well. It irks me when I play a game such as Killzone Shadow Fall whose graphics match Crysis 3 running on a $1000+ high-end rig despite the PS4 being a decidedly middling gaming PC. Our PC hardware is capable of much more than what it currently achieves but Windows and DirectX do such a spectacular job of handicapping it.

 

I wouldn't say Windows and DirectX handicap it, it just isn't utilized to its fullest potential. I agree it could be better, but it's the compromise needed for a wide range of hardware. Without it we wouldn't have the history of games we've got. There's lots of calls that can be made to cards too that just aren't utilized with all the crappy ports. They do what's just "good enough" and works. And again, people always seem to compare PC games at 1080p/60 with most consoles at 720p/30. Killzone runs at 1080p/30 and likely uses rendering "tricks" to make it look better. Again, it's all about the programming. If it were programmed for PC first in mind, and optimized for PC, then it may likely not even run well on a console.

And I hate to say it, but nVidia or Intel need to spearhead a Mantle type API, not AMD. AMD has a hard time penetrating the market with anything. And actually was hoping Steam was going to make Mantle part of their SteamBox initiative. If nothing else that would have raised people's eyebrows. Have a PC box that performs 25-30% faster (just a guess) than a Windows Direct3D PC with the same hardware.

 

In the mean time we are looking at OpenGL ports instead.

Assuming that StreamOS does get some momentum, how long will it take for AAA devs to climb over the learning curve on OpenGL? Right now the OpenGL ports are often missing this or that.

 

It all comes down to developer adoption. If they spend the time to learn the calls, it will happen. If not, well, we're stuck with Direct3D. And to be honest, I'm sure with proper optimization that Direct3D games could run nearly as well as Mantle.

 

Properly optimized anything can, in theory, max out the hardware. The problem is both app devs and driver devs are chasing moving targets. Game devs want to optimize their drawing code their way with profiling data on current driver implementation, while the GPU driver devs want to optimize their hardware control code their way with profiling data on current game implementation. They both add their own tricks which seems to work for now, adding more and more complexity and uncertainty to the whole system. We have two groups of people who are trying to cooperate on two sides of a black curtain without seeing what's happening on the other side. They both believe they are doing the right thing but in the end the self entangling mess only gets bigger and bigger, and no one knows what exactly is happening.

If the entire industry never wants to drop ytilibitapmoc, we'll never get ride of the mess. Coding two implementations in parallel against different APIs for the same product is expensive, but it's a price worth paying for the industry.

 

I see what you did there.

 

Intel would never do this. One of the advantages of Mantle is reducing the significance of CPU power by reducing unnecessary overhead. Intel are not interested in reducing the significance of their product.

We don't even need Intel to get behind it really. AMD and Nvidia are enough. If Mantle is a success I doubt Nvidia will sit idly by.

 

I hate to say it, but console optimization really is a powerful thing. Xbox 360 and PS3 were both released 2005/2006 respectively; now if you take a high end pc from that exact time and compare it today at the end of these consoles cycle you end up with a pretty underpowered pc that will barely play current titles, if at all.

I built myself a desktop at that time with an Intel Pentium D CPU, 2GB DDR Ram, and a GeForce 7800 GT. At the time of the console release this was a beast of a pc, but it hasn't aged well... and games on console unfortunately look and run better than on this pc. I have gotten rid of this pc, but the last game I tested on it was Max Payne 3, with everything on low settings at 720p it pushed 20fps if that.

What I'm saying is even though our pc's may be a lot more powerful than consoles currently, due to optimizations our pc's will not be able to keep up with 1080p 60/30fps without upgrades down the line. Consoles never have to upgrade during their lifetime, while us pc games have to. I wonder, is there anyone on here who uses a pc from 2005/2006 for gaming currently? Not likely... and it wont be likely that we will be using the same pc's we currently have for gaming at the end of these "next gen" consoles lifetime, simply due to the advantage of optimization.

Now, with that out of the way, pc gaming is in no way dying. There will always be a market for it, even if it does end up growing small in the future it will always be there. Indie games, the modding community, steam sales, etc are enough of a reason that pc gaming will keep on thriving. For all the games pc may be losing, it gains so much more in mods, fan remakes, indie titles... just check out these links:

Ten top fan-remade classics you can play for free right now | PC Gamer
Games and mods development for Windows, Linux and Mac - Mod DB
Rockin' Indie Games one pixel at a time - Indie DB

And here's a few charts for those who really believe pc gaming is dying:

 

That's a nice list, thanks. But many of those have already been released, and a lot of those are also indie games. I don't have a problem with that, but many don't have as much substance as a larger title. And if you count those then you need to count all the Xbox Live Arcade titles too, because there's hundreds of exclusives I'm sure coming for Xbox One.

 

Semantics to me.

Shadow Fall is native 1080p (with FXAA + transparency MSAA) and unlocked frame rate, typically 30-40 FPS in singleplayer and 50-60 FPS in multiplayer. Played it for a few hours with a keen eye and there are no "tricks" as far as I can tell. It's got some of the most advanced lighting of any game on any platform. You look up the history of Killzone, the series has always had some of best graphics in the biz and one of a limited number of console games to use a deferred shading engine.

So 64-bit CPU's count for nothing, even though every single person on this board (I hope) uses them? Please. Now you're just talking out of the wrong hole.

And XB1, PS4, and Wii U don't count as "penetrating the market with anything?" Last I checked, neither Nvidia nor Intel has silicon in the next-gen consoles.

 

Consoles can't even keep up with 1080p at 30fps so why do PCs have to? It's not "optimization", it's terrible graphics and tricks that allow them to eke out playable frame rates from current titles. Most current titles for the 360 and PS4 chug along at 30FPS or less and 720P or lower.

 

1 billion in three days? That's insane.

 

Nice list and chart indeed, where is the phone and tablet?

 

exactly. one thinker amongst the rabble.

the breakthrough SoC's/platforms/products are just hitting the market now. whatever barrier remained to replacement of PC's is fractured now. High end tablet/phablet/handset today will be mediocre in less than one year as the brainpower worldwide - the best and brightest young talent - have migrated to that space. the game is over, but the mopup operation will take a considerable time

 

Speaking as a past exclusive console gamer, in my mind PC gaming will only continue to grow rather than die.

To use my own experience as an anecdote: after only completing my first PC build about 4 years ago; I have slowly made the transition from console to PC, and I will never go back.

I don't think my story is unique. I work at a university and see lot of young people (the targeted demographic) preferring PC over consoles. Keep in mind steam is at a record high and typically the transition is one-way. What I mean by that is there are very few people who will go from PC to console. I believe that translates into exponential growth.



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I think PC gaming is fine, it's just that more people (previously "non-gamers") are getting into other forms of gaming (casual, mobile).

 

That was the only chart that I could find on the net that compared consoles to pc, and yes the chart is a bit old and a lot of the games have already been released - but there is a date at the top of the chart showing when it was made. At the time of the chart creation that was what was available to use as data. But all that aside... yes a lot of pc releases are indie titles, but there are quite a bit of indie titles that can stand up to AAA titles.... say for example "The Dark Mod" - which is a free standalone game that is in direct competition with the upcoming AAA title "Theif." Or Verdun - a World War 1..... yes WWI online shooter that has done online trench warfare right, and no AAA company has ever attempted it. DayZ can also be considered "indie" - it is basically being made mainly by 1 guy with a small team. Legend of Grimrock is also really an amazing dungeon crawler RPG that plays like the old Might and Magic games but will better graphics, etc. What I have been noticing lately is that I am having way more fun with these "Indie" titles than with AAA releases, sure a lot of indie releases are utter abominations that have the potential of being used in secret torture chambers, but the good indie games are simply amazing and a joy to play.

The charts I found that included mobile gaming all excluded pc as a gaming platform...

 

I just started playing The Dark Mod. Oh man...

 

That's OK. Denial is the first step to recovery.

 

It's also a very long river.

 

Theres no harm in being both. You miss out on way too much as a gamer if PC games are the only thing you play. Sony's first party studios are amazing. In fact I'd say 2013 was the year of the PS3, it was by far the best platform in terms of releases. Xbox exclusives I've always been pretty indifferent about but I imagine some might like their stuff.

I do always go back to PC in the end but I've really enjoy alot of the console only stuff. I borrowed a friends Vita for a couple of weeks and finished Gravity Rush, Soul Sacrifice and some others and had a blast.

 

Indeed, and Sony wrapped up the year by getting a head start, in many people's eyes, in the next-gen console race with the PS4.

As a die-hard PC gamer it pains me to admit that you're absolutely right. I'm not into the indie scene and 2013 was such a middling year for AAA PC games. While there were some very good games, everything was just another iteration in an existing series, e.g. Metro LL, BioShock Infinite, Tomb Raider. There's was nothing really innovative or some new, fresh IP's. Watch_Dogs would've been it if it had come out as originally planned.

 

Allow me to be a contrarian. PC Gaming is dying? Good. It's current iteration is pretty horrible in a lot of ways. Triple A games are pushed out a yearly pace, packed with features no one is asking for (forced multiplayer, looking at you buddy), and sometimes double loaded with DRM. Far cry blood dragon still requires Uplay on top of Steam for example. I've personally never been a fan of multiplayer FPS, so if a new COD or Battlefield never comes out and the companies that make them go bankrupt, good.

On the flip side of the coin, I look at my steam library and I noticed that the majority of my gaming hours are spent on mods, indie games (FTL, Terraria, Spelunky, etc) and DOTA. Even if PC gaming 'dies', those genres will survive, if not even thrive. You'll still have graphically intense PC games like Witcher and Metro. Kickstarter, Steam Greenlight et al have become places where small vocal groups of gamers can support only the games they want and take an active part in shaping the very gameplay of those games.

So good, the PC gaming we have come to know over the past years is dead. Long live PC gaming!

 

PC Gaming will never die! It will only transform! Consoles and PC's will combine to make something unbelievably insane. I know, I saw this in the future. We're only 36 years away. 2050, baby.

 

PC Gaming Megazord with dual console super blaster and SteamOS HalfLife 3 Fire Armour.

 

Exactly! I saw it... Imagine this http://ageofangels.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/science-museum-019.jpg but with contact lenses instead of those huge goggles, and full tactical gear - completely wireless.

 

PC gaming will always have FPS, RTS and MMO. If anything console gaming is on the decline IMHO.

 

Nothing technical seems to stop devs from making MMOs on consoles. FPS and RTS will have the controller problem.

Assuming that StreamOS is recognized as something between PC and console, since this thing has native support for mouse, will it create a trend to bring mouse support to more platforms?

 

PlanetSide 2 is an MMOFPS and it'll be coming out F2P on PS4 soon. Considering the pathetic state of the game on PC and how fun it can be when it actually works, I'd say it by itself is enough to buy a PS4 for. It won't be PC-PS4 cross-platform play so it'll be an even playing field as far as controller vs. KB&M, plus the DualShock 4 is pretty awesome.

 

Yea tempted to buy a PS4 at some point just to play some Fifa and Planetside.

 

I hear ya, I'll always have a PS so I can play anything developed by naughty dog. The last of us is one of my favorite games to date. I just hope their next game is ported to the ps3 so I can prolong a PS4 purchase but that is probably wishful thinking.

Everything else...PC

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Nvidia

 

Yeah that's a big stumbling block towards the Steam Machine's success. But then again, some Steam Machines with multiple hard drives can dual boot Linux and Windows... problem solved. Steam Machine's main target audience are console noobs who are too lazy to google how to build a PC. Valve already has 65 million Steam users on PC, they want to cash in on 12 year old console players with parent's money and "casual" gamers who like to game on their living room.

 

Not sure how I understand how this is different from the current GeForce Experience optimizer? Could anyone explain?

 

The article is a year old. It is the current GeForce Experience optimizer...

 

Sweet Jesus, all of these assumptions. "Laptop/mobile gaming/micropayments is/are the future", "Valve will bring PC gaming back to the top", "The Steam Machine will fall flat", "I know when Half-Life 3 is being released". I can be a pretty impatient person, but this is absolutely insane. If I wanted the 'facts' before the actual event I'd watch CNN or Fox News. Why can't people just wait?

PC gaming has also never been in any state close to "dying". That makes it sound like the only PC game left on the planet was Halo: Combat Evolved or something. Just because Microsoft, Sony, and some of their wacko fans throw 'exclusive' around as if it makes them better or have the upper hand doesn't mean it's the end for PC gaming; it's doing fine on its own. The one that gets me, though, is the fact that some console gamers will complain that PC gamers asked for (or "complained for") a PC version of a certain game. So what?

Miscellanea
- Aliens: Colonial Marines might have been the video game equivalent of Aliens, but Alien: Isolation is the video game equivalent of Alien. Can't believe someone tried to tackle this in a market oversaturated with shooter games. While I'd still love to see someone make a proper version of Colonial Marines within the next decade, I'm really hoping Isolation sets the bar high for both Alien and horror/survival games. I'm scared just thinking about that game...

You have no idea how sad I was that the servers for Dragon Ball Online got shut down. Even with the translation mod I wouldn't have jumped through the hoops to play the Korean version, but it was my only hope for a) a DB franchise MMO and b) a DB franchise game on the computer

 

For heavens sake let this thread die and get buried already . ^^

 

I just put in request to close the thread. It's run its course.

 

In other words, "I've had my fun here and it's time to move on to somewhere else."

 

Always have to have the last word in don't you? There were some valid conversations here.

 

If you feel that strongly about it, why not just request that the admins close/delete it (as HT has already done)?

So I didn't check the date of the last comment before posting. It happens.

 

Good night thread!