I hope companies who put DRMs into their games go down.

Ubisoft for example. I can't believe they make you stay connected to the internet to play even single player on some of their games. They are treating their customers like criminals and I can't wait to see them go down for it. It's so obvious... Put the DRM in, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people off, the pissed off customers don't buy, the pissed off pirates rip out the DRM and put it up on torrent websites, and pissed off people who MAY have bought the game now are pirating out of anger. I say LOL. Just lol... How can companies be so stupid? "Here. You just bought this car, but you can't drive it unless you're connected to our network. If a disconnection happens, the car shuts down. Oh and there's a speed limiter built in the car in case you try to speed."

They fail to realize that they are truly hurting their sales way more than stopping piracy. Even just knowing a game has a DRM makes me want to pirate a DRM free copy. Hey guys! You just lost a potential sale AND I still got your game!

Freakin tards.

 

I agree 100%, though if its just a VERY light DRM that wont affect you´re game and annoy you i would not have a problem. But with Ubisofts and such.... its insane.

 

We all share the same trail of thought. But hey, don't like it, don't get it.

Bet most people here would still grab Diablo 3 despite it requiring constant internet connection itself.

 

Ok... It won't let me edit. It's * HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people off*

 

Yeah im going to get Diablo 3 anyways, though i hope that Blizzard change the DRM before release. But yeah, dont like the game? Dont buy it... easy as that.

 

The simple, ironic, hilarious way to deal with these DRMs is to pirate the game IMO. I don't care how hard a company worked to make it. If they are too stupid to see the fecal matter tornado they are bringing on themselves, they deserve to have their crap pirated. And this is the one exception where piracy can make you feel good, like you're part of a cause.

 

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/2/19/

 

Yeah pirate them because they "try too hard" to protect their product. Honestly, piracy isn't the answer to deal with DRM. If anything, it'll just encourage them to find worse draconian DRMs that will soon be uncrackable for a long time. High piracy figures is the main reason why they use these sort of DRMs.

If they see sales go down from DRM, they'll consider removing DRM. If they see piracy goes up, they'll research a worse DRM.

 

Indeed, the best way is just to just not buy the game at all. Or write complaints to the devs. If the devs take their community serious that will reconsider the DRM, just as CD Project RED did...

 

Sparked a little controversy here eh? I like

I'd like to see them try to put harsher DRMs in their games. even more of their customers off. Haha I'd like to see them try that. And I fully understand why a DRM is used. I just don't agree with it. People are going to pirate. And a lot of people who pirate end up liking the game and buying it to support the developer anyway.

 

Though that isent always the case... Many people are like "Hmm i got the game already, why would i spend money on some content that i already have?" and if they as you pirate because the game has bad DRM, then because they play it once wont make the DRM go away from the retail version?

 

This ^ lol

 

Wasent that what you just said you were going to do?

 

Of course not. I don't support the purchase of DRM games whatsoever.

I know a lot of people pirate because they don't feel like paying but if they do have the money, a lot of people still buy games. You can't buy them all. And I can't stand the 'the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor" garbage because it is in most cases true. I believe that being poor should have NOTHING to do with the luxuries you have in life (unless you're lazy). People all deserve equal treatment but its rigged from the start. And until pirating can be completely stopped (not through the use of DRM), then I say let the less fortunate have some luxury that they may have not otherwise been able to get. These large corporations have enough money to handle it.

 

Pirating software that is crippled by digital restrictions management won't solve your problem of being constrained in the way you use it. Even worse, you will become a criminal by circumventing the DRM measures.
The only way to address this is to completely stay away from DRM. If you don't like it, don't use it! It's as simple as that.

 

Again, i agree 100%!
@408cali i dident say that poor people did not deserve games, what i said was that pirating the game wont solve the DRM issue... and i thought we were talking about pirating because of DRM, not because you dont have the money to afford a game?

 

To each his own. But my way hits the devs wallet the hardest and will let them know that if they want war they can have it. We the gamers have the greater numbers. And as someone said earlier, tons of people (who probably hate DRM as much as the next guy) are buying diablo 3 and dealing with it. How is buying the game REALLY showing them that its ok? It's basically saying that if they make a good enough game, we're going to still buy it but sit and pout about the DRM.

 

I am one of those who will still buy it. And it doesent in any way show them that we are unsatisfied with the DRM. But if you just pirate the games the piracy statistics will go up, and then they will most likely use even harsher DRM. The best way i see to deal with this is to not buy the game at all, or complain to the devs... Pirating the game doesent solve anything...

 

Hey I would love to continue this but I have to go into work now. I'll be back in about 6 hours so check back later k? We're not done here lol

 

Not buying the game won't do anything. They'll consider the game itself a failure instead of DRM as the issue. For the millionth time I'll say CUSTOMER PROTECTION! We, as consumers, have no recourse. If we could return games with the ability to let the publisher know the reason, that would speak volumes. Lack of sales means little. Buying and returning a product sends a big message.

There's several games I didn't buy because of the DRM. I'd love for them to continue with the series, but if it has poor sales do you think they will? No. Unless they get the clear message the DRM is the issue.

The problem here is lack of confidence in the game industry, period. If you knew you would get an excellent product with excellent support, you'd be a lot more likely to buy the game. But as it stands, you buy the game, you're stuck.

This is everything to do with the publishers too, not the developers. The devs do not incorporate the DRM, the publishers do. So yell at the publishers not the devs.

 

Well, as for now we CANT return the game, so we have to do what we can right NOW. And not buying the game while having a big crowd complaining to the publishers WILL send a message. And im sorry, i said devs instead of publishers : / I mistaked it...

 

Your way hits them not at all. For their wallet it simply doesn't matter if you pirate a game or don't obtain it at all.
btw, HTWingNut is right: It's about the publishers, not about the developers.

So what? Rest assured, they can pay the better lawyers and have the law on their side. And if they get you they'll press more money from you than you would ever have spent on buying their software. So effectively a caught software pirate is the best thing that can happen to their wallet.

I agree up to this point. But since there is no such system, the only legal way t show disapproval is not to buy DRM-contaminated software.

Why would I buy a product in the first place if I know in advance that I'll return it anyway because I don't like it? I don't go to a grocery store, buy some apples and return them later because I don't like the taste of apples. For the same reason I don't buy computers with Windows in the first place and for the same reason I wouldn't buy any other DRM software.

 

I agree with HTWingnut simply not buying the game does not show that DRM is the problem. Anyway, if everyone honestly thinks that publishers don't know that we as gamers do not like DRM, Then you are just looney tunes. They can read and I am sure they know how people online atleast feel about DRM. Yet they still push it and make it even more invasive. They simply just don't care and know that there is a fool born every minute, and they will still get their profits. Also, Console games are pirated a lot more than PC games now, but their DRM is weaksauce like all DRM.

 

Boycotting the game and Complaining will sometimes do the job, and has done so in the past for some publishers... But then what should we do if we are arent going to boycut the game and send them a message? Since returning a game isent an option what other means do we have?

 

It's one of those situations where resistance is futile unfortunately. Boycotts and complaints can only go so far, publishers just don't care.

 

But if we just stand here and do NOTHING, then why should it even brought to their attention? If we atleast try to do something then it MIGHT just help?

 

lol, They KNOW already it's not like if we COMPLAIN and NOT BUY that they will all of a sudden realize that oh they don't like DRM. They still push it and make it even more invasive. A return policy would be the way to change it. I think you are overly optimistic and I am overly pessimistic. lol

 

Yeah, of course they know. But as it has done in the past, it has changed their minds. Though as you say, it is quite optimistic. And i dont really see how you could have a working return policy for PC games?

 

Just like a working return policy for DVD's/CD's or any other software item. If it does not run properly because of a DRM(most of the time) or in general you should be entitled to return the game. You shouldn't be force fed sub par games or invasive game limiting DRM to make executives pockets fatter.

 

But for PC games the reason why you cant return the games to the stores is because of the serial key? If you activate a game you just bought in a store on steam, and then the horrible DRM prevents you from playing it, then you certainly would not be able to return that game to a store, because then you already used the serial code, and they would not be able to resell it?

 

No, that wasn't my point to buy it and return it just to do it. My point was more of a general comment. You buy a game and find out the DRM restricts you more than you thought (remember Starforce?) or the game is horrible in general, then you return it and reason is for DRM.

 

They can, Publishers can give new keys/exchange the game for another. Ultimately it is not the store that gets hurt its the publisher. Just like any other software that requires a CD key if you use it and it doesn't work properly you should have the option to return it. Serial codes and all that is the responsibility of the publisher not the purchaser.

 

Well then why dont they do it? There surely must be some good reason hindering them from making it so that you can return PC games?

 

Right, I was just going to post that. When people return items to the store they are frequently sent back to the manufacturer or their reseller anyhow for them to deal with it. Serial keys are a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to replace than if you returned something like a TV or a computer or anything else for that matter.

There is, it's the RIAA and MPAA. Video games fall into this same camp. They have the politicians in their pockets. That's why you get a half dozen warnings before you watch a movie. Again, it protects the publishers but not the consumers. It's a one way street. Not sure how you're not understanding that. Publishers can release total crap products, even programs with malicious code hidden in them and you have no recourse. You can't return it, you're stuck paying the bill. You can whine, but until it affects them financially, it won't matter.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


I am off for now though gotta go fix a cracked molar. So painful!

I will check this thread when I get back from the dentist.

 

I still find it weird since its perfectly okay to return a console game...
Good luck at the dentist! I hate my local dentist :S She dosent fix my teeth, she rapes my mouth D:

 

You can? Since when?

 

I have always been able to return a Console game to my local Blockbuster and other video game stores... i dont know about the ones over in the US though...

 

No, no opened video games, computer software, music CD's, Video DVD's or Blu-Ray's. Once it's opened you bought it for good. You can exchange it for the same thing if something is wrong with the disc but that's it. If it doesn't even work on your computer, even if it says it will, you can't return it.

 

Well you can in Denmark, and you can actually also return PC games if they dont work on the computer...

 

See, so you don't have anything to worry about. In USA and Canada that I know of, you're stuck, period. If everyone had the option to return a game then it would make a bigger impact.

 

That might be, but if the game itself is good enough would people want to return the game? As i said earlier i will be playing diablo 3 even if it has that stupid DRM...

 

Funny, I hope companies that use DRM do really well, so well in fact that PC gaming looks extremely profitable. I hope DRM makes PC gamers wake up, as I can see in this thread quite a few have not, seriously, Pirate the game to protest piracy? Say it out loud, and tell me it doesn't sound stupid. I hope these companies and PC gamers (that pirate) realize the error of their ways do so well that companies no longer need to use DRM to protect their property. Then we can see an end to these whiny threads that are far more annoying than any DRM problem I have encountered, and I have had a few including Starforce issues.

 

Yeah i find that piracy is a damn stupid way to counter DRM too.... But honestly i dont mind the DRM, if its at the point where it destroys the games FPS then it bothers me. But im not THAT furious at it... Though i would find it the best if they just toned it down to a small low key DRM...

 

I never said to return it if it's good. The whole point is we HAVE NO OPTIONS AT ALL!!!

Even if it's just "good enough", I say still return it. Mediocrity is what's killing not only games but everything. That's why the economy is crap. Everything is sent to low cost manufacturing, and not low cost in a good way. It's cheapest labor and sacrifices quality. If everyone actually stopped being so "meh" about everything we might actually have local manufacturing, built with a sense of pride, and an improved economy.

For a couple decades games were shipped with nothing more than a key code to enter when you installed a game. Whatever happened to that? Now they spend more money on trying to protect their IP that they completely forget about the customer and the inconveniences to them. But from what I've gathered, a large portion of the young generation has grown up with it and has no issue with average or less than average products.

 

Forgive me for not having read all the thread (I'm short on time), but here are my views.

I don't mind old style DRM like simple copy protection but as soon as you're forced to make an account and stay online to play a single player game, that's where I'd draw the line.

As of yet, I've only truely pirated one game (which was terrible so I got rid of it as soon as I finished dl'ing). This game was also one which I probably wouldn't have bought anyway so whatever-soft isn't losing anything.

If I like a game then I have no problem with paying for it, I've got a fair few legit game. TF2 for example, if I lost it and it weren't F2P now I'd probably be willing to pay more than the £10 I bought orange box for in the first place. While I'm more borderline with piracy than some people, I still think that pirating a new game isn't the right thing to do. If it was a really poorly made game and it's a few years old then I don't really have much of a problem with it.

However, I think devs are shooting themselves in the foot with their curent DRM. Many people buy the game and then pirate it so they can play without DRM interfering with their game. I have absoloutely no problem with this, given that you bought the game it makes no differece. The problem lies with the fact that it still looks like they pirated the game (well they kinda did but it doesn't matter). To people who look for the stats of piracy, whether you paid for it or not before you downloaded is irrelevant, you're just a number on the system so it leads to a largeer estimate of piracy than is truely the case.

What I think should happen is that companies should give us a chance. They give us one good game with reasonable DRM. This would be a chance to prove ourselves and frankly you'd have to be a **** to pirate it seeing as it could effectively shut gaming into eternal DRM (something pirates don't want either, it makes their life more difficult). This would give a true statistic on the amoun of people pirating a game since no one would be forced to pirate simply to get a better game experience. Then think about it, the remaining people who would pirate such a game would have done so whether it had DRM or not, they would find a way. Because of all this I think companies partly have themselves to blame.

This has probably turned out a bit garbled but hopefully it's still understandable.

 

I know And it sucks! And i too want the old times back where you just had a code to put in when you installed the game and then you had it all ready to go : / The economy in Scandinavia is good as of right now But in the US, yes there is a lot to be done...

 

The way I deal with DRM, is I just don't buy/play the game, and I have the comfort in knowing they lost one sale. Perhaps if enough people do it, they (the game companies) might finally "get it" and stop using DRM.
DRM only hurts the honest paying customer, it does nothing to the pirates. While the pirates get to enjoy a game free of DRM, you the customer, get to deal with invalid product keys, online activation, or worse needing an always-on internet connection. In 5 or 10 years you wont be able to play the game, because the servers for your particular game would have been shut down long ago.
This is also why I can still play games from the early to mid 90's to this day, and I still do play them occasionally! If a game is very good, I'll play it for a lifetime if possible.

 

@funky monk - Good points. Especially about people buying the game but still downloading the pirated version to avoid the DRM which is completely countering the point of the DRM. Maybe if more legit customers would write an email or a physical letter actually to the pubs letting them know their distaste for their DRM maybe they might get it.

Although these days companies don't like to spend a dime unless they're making well more than their money back. I'd like to see the business case presented about the DRM. It must be pretty impressive, especially the UbiSoft one with persistent internet connection, to show that they actually MAKE money from it.

 

Yup just as i said earlier. If enough people just dont buy the game, and also complain something MIGHT happen...