If You Can Solve This U R KING

MSI GT62VR, GTX1070, i7-6700HQ, 16GB RAM laptop, Win10 Pro

All fellow members, you are my last and only hope.

How do you guys explain it when the CPU and GPU clockspeeds reach their expected turbo max under load with no throttling, and temps are low, yet you get 30%-40% fps lower than you used to in all games? Before you think of Gsync, Vsync, drivers, power plans, etc...please continue reading. There seems to be a drop in performance and an artificial cap on framerates in my games now; a cap that was never there. BF3 does not go above 100fps on max settings now dipping to 70, used to be a steady 150fps. Same for other games but at different caps. Benchmarks & stress tests run fine with no crashing but they give low-end results relative to all reviews I found of this laptop. Benchmark scores and in-game video with statistics are posted below.

Things I tried to no avail:
1. Clean Install of windows 10 did not change anything
2. Trying various Nvidia drivers with DDU did not change anything
3. Flashing the BIOS with latest build from MSI website did not change anything
4. GPU/CPU Temps are at 30C-35C when booting the game (very cold in here), and I activate Cooler Boost to keep them under 85C but I still dont reach the original max and steady framerates like I used to
5. Gsync and Vsync are globally off, in each program settings, and in all game settings
6. Power plan is set to high Performance in windows cp and nvidia cp
7. Game mode and Game DVR disabled in Windows Settings (no longer customizable after fall update)

Peculiar Observations:
The on-screen display occasionally shows the "Power Limit" flag while gaming. I assumed this is common in gaming laptops or is it not?

Figures and Benchmark Scores:
Below is a video recording of in game statistics plus links to 3DMark Scores. GPU load in all games is 50%-75% while clock reaches 1900Mhz, avg 1700Mhz.

If anyone knows how to reset the motherboard circuitry without opening the case please let me know. What chipset drivers are you guys using?

Ryse Son of Rome: Notice the fps cap limit @64fps. When I move around it dips to 30fps even 10fps minimum. In BF3 it dropped from steady 150fps to a max of 100fps, dipping to 70fps.


>>>Firestrike Score:
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/23367665

>>>3DMark 11 Score:
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/12497875

>>>3DMark Vantage Score:
https://www.3dmark.com/3dmv/5656634

>>>Sky Diver Score:
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/23370370

>>>Cloud Gate Score:
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/23368616

Cinebench R15 Scores:


GPU-Z Readings with the Built-In Render Test Activated:

Question Marks For Further Investigation:
Could it be a malfunction in the power adapter? The circuitry in the motherboard? The Intel chipset driver version 10.1.1.42? Can I reset the circuitry without opening the case? I am planning to try a new power adapter yet it costs more than $200 so i got a multimeter to measure mine for any discrepancies. How would you further investigate this?

Thank you so much for your patience and contribution.

 

My 1080 will do this as well (utilization wise) if it does not tax the GPU. A good test for this is Witcher 3 on Ultra settings, if you disable hair works it will run about 60% utilization in 1080p. If you use dynamic scaling to 4k and back to 1080p, it will utilize 99% or turning on hairworks will also bump up the GPU usage. Can you try another game to verify you can get closer to 90+% GPU utilization or try dynamic scaling in Nvidia control panel and render it at 4k natively and scale it back down to 1080p.

As far as the frames itself, when you play a game does your battery % go down at all when you are playing?

 

As you mentioned, hitting the power limit is your obvious problem. This maybe causing you GPU to throttle and throwing off your frame rates. Try to search online on the power rating of the GPU in your specific machine. Nonetheless, @woodzstack tried 1070s down to 90W and they were performing ok.

 

I see you disabled vsync. If your system has G-stink, try disabling that globally also if you haven't already done so. If your system does not have G-stink, use NVIDIA Profile Inspector and disable everything you find for G-sync on the global profile and apply the setting. Reboot and see if your framerate returns to normal.

 

UPDATED: - Added 3DMark 11 and 3Dmark Vantage results in main post.

Thanks Rancid, no, there is no noticeable battery drain after running games. Battery has always been stuck at 96% when fully charged ever since I owned it.

Thanks Mahmoud, Power limit is still under investigation with the kind help of the members on this forum. No hard evidence on that as of yet except the occasional "Power Limit" flag on the on-screen display while gaming, as you can see in the posted youtube video above.

Thank Mr. Fox, Gsync has always been globally disabled in nvidia cp, sorry, I will update it in the main post.

 

Hey unhappy, what changed then ?

You wish us to eliminated possibilities, but what is different now other then the scores and FPS/performance of the videocard ?

Otherwise seems power issue. Too many USB's plugged in, the backlight turned up, the fans turned up, the power mode turned to full performance instead of balanced etc... trying to get full performance, might literally be whats degrading your performance.

 

If you backed up your recovery partition onto a USB 3.0 32GB flash drive or DVD's created by MSI BurnRecovery, try using it to restore to the out of the box configuration. It makes a good sanity check in situations like this, where you can't quite find what's missing.

Often there are little gotcha's in the installation order and pieces that are missed by us the first time we do a "clean install", Intel chipset drivers, or other items MS update installs as generic drivers instead of the OEM optimized driver.

So it's a good idea to keep around the original MSI OS image on a recovery flash drive / DVD for later sanity check installs for situations like this. MSI usually requires you to do this before debugging hardware problems for RMA.

Then you can do a quick forensic dive on the versions and packages installed in the OEM OS image to see what you are missing, so your next clean install goes smoother.

MSI may send you a backup / flash drive for the recovery OS depending on the support region. Register the laptop and open a ticket with MSI to ask (nicely). Or you can RMA it back to MSI for MSI to reinstall the OS and recovery partition. If you are lucky there is an MSI service center within driving distance.

Or you can find a local dealer with one in stock and purchase the USB 3.0 32 GB flash drive from them and use MSI BurnRecovery on that unit to restore onto yours.

Or, keep looking for what you are missing.

When you do get a working configuration again, be sure and backup an image of the OS drive with Macrium Reflect Free, and create a bootable restore USB 3.0 4GB (or large enough to hold the restore image) recovery drive.

Then as you get further into installation of apps, tools, games, etc, continue making backup images with Macrium Reflect Free every so often so you can restore to a known good state should things go bad with an install or Windows Update in the future.

 

Thanks woodzstack, nothing is attached to the laptop other than a mouse, LED lights are off, fans are silent on Auto, and I would still get low framerates and an upper limit of around 64fps. It was working great on high performance plan for 7 months at full Framerates as it should. Nothing changed in power consumption as far as I can tell.

Could it be the adapter no longer providing enough power to the laptop? I got a multimeter to test the power adapter but still trying to figure out how to use it. But still the Power Limit flag only shows occasionally for a split second during gaming, whereas the poor performance is consistent from start to end of gaming, as you can see in the youtube video above. That 64fps upper limit should not be there in the beginning of the video, it should be around 100Fps.

Could it be a CPU bottleneck? If yes why am I the only one? Why now when everything was fine few weeks back?

I appreciate it if an owner of an MSI GT62VR with GTX1070 can let us know if the "Power Limit" flag shows up on their OSD while gaming for 5 minutes straight, even if it shows up briefly. This would help me A LOT in narrowing down the causes of my problem. Notice in my video above, as soon as I moved the mouse in game the Power limit flag showed up for a split second, then a couple times more. Even with no Power Limit flag, FPS still seems limited to 64fps. Used to be up to 100fps.

 

I think @hmscott is on the right track here with the OS being buggered up.

Use the free version of Macrium Reflect to image your OS drive as it is now.

Clean install Windows to unallocated disk space (clean it with diskpart before installing) and see if the problem is gone. If it it, reinstall the rest of your software and delete the image. If it acts exactly the same, restore your OS image and don't burn any calories reinstalling software.

 

My bad gents, I should have made it clearer in the original post that I just came out of a tightly clean windows install using phoenix win10 guide, while internet disconnected all the way and only few essentials installed. No bloatware installed. I installed the drivers from MSI product page and blocked all windows driver updates using gpedit and o&o shutup and system settings/hardware. No drivers were ever installed by windows afterwards and i am operating solely on the stock drivers from MSI product page.
I believe I got the software side covered unless you have something to add/investigate.

I believe it is shaping up as a hardware issue. I suspect 3 things:

1. Sudden CPU Bottleneck (plz review my cinebench scrnshot in original post. multicore score is low while single core is fine. mind u all my scores are lower than average) (also plz review the cpu usage in my short video, cores are not fully used so more confusion)

2. Faulty GPU

3. Faulty power supply or motherboard circuitry

Happy to hear your thoughts on the way forward.

 

That's why it's good to restore to the out of the box Windows OS via recovery, which you knew at one point worked fine with your hardware. It provides a quick sanity check to prove to yourself it's not some new hardware failure, instead it's the more typical OS failure.

I doubt you have a hardware problem.

 

It's a long shot. Might not work, but just for giggles try the attached utility to force the cores to unpark on the CPU. It will cause no harm whatsoever, so give it a shot. Got nothing to lose at this point.

Unzip it wherever you want it. First click on the "Check Status" button. Wait for it to check. When it is done click the "Unpark All" button. (Do that even if it says the cores are unparked already.) After unparking the cores, reboot.

 

If the above does not work, try using ThrottleStop if you haven't already done so. I did not see that mentioned in the first post.

If using ThrottleStop corrects the problem, then your BIOS settings are messed up.

 

The windows ISO which i downloaded from microsoft on november 15 must be deployed on many i7 6700hq gtx1070 machines by now but it seems i am the only one complaining with these particular issues.

But fair enough I will perform an MSI recovery which I do have on a usb by the way. It is a windows 10 build from 2016.

Reason I am leaning towards a hardware issue is because when this problem started last month I held shift while pressing shutdown and unplugged the laptop for 8 hours, problem was solved, all framerates restored to original high levels. Few more days problem returned and laptop got cleaned from dust by MSI and they replaced CPU fan early this month, I have had overheating problems, and now the problem is not going away even with shift+shutdown.

That is why i asked about cmos/circuitry reset in original post, if it is possible without removing the case? note: battery is not removable.

 

This may be the problem, there might be newer drivers and chipset updates beyond what is in the offline install.

Protect what you have installed by doing a full boot drive image using Macrium Reflect Free first, or not. If it was a good running image I would back it up, but since it isn't maybe it's not worth backing up, but that's up to you.

Then disable Windows Update blocks, and do a manual update series - do Windows Update more than 1 time, rebooting after each set, until there are no Windows updates showing up after reboots.

That should get you up to date and should solve the problem, if MS has the updates needed.

This could also be a state of Windows 10 problem + Nvidia driver issue, Windows 10 + Nvidia is a hazardous playing field for a long time now. You may need to regress to an older Nvidia driver or OS, or both.

Good luck.

 

Try the above suggestions first. They require less effort and only take a couple of minutes. It could be a hardware issue or a BIOS corruption/wrong settings issue, or a Windows Registry corruption issue. What Intel ME firmware version is showing in the BIOS? Make sure you are using Intel ME drivers that are newer than the ME firmware version... preferrably the latest ME drivers from station-drivers.com or Win-Raid.com (not the MSI ME drivers if they are old).

EDIT: If you flashed to a newer BIOS and the ME firmware is newer than the drivers, this can cause really weird issues with CPU performance.

 

Wow, that's good news, glad to hear you have the original OS recovery available

If you have stable operation with the out of the box OS, then that at least rules out the hardware as being an issue.

If you have extra disks / SSD's, split off different attempts onto different physical drives to save time backing up and restoring.

Only have the rest restore USB flash drive and boot drive plugged in when doing the restore.

The MSI recovery restore will reformat all drives it finds and restore it's partition structure onto your internal drives. So remove all internal drives except for the boot drive. And, just for safeties sack, unplug any external USB drives, I've heard of those getting erased during the restore as well.


Have fun

 

Go to your bios settings and do a restore optimal defaults reset.

If that doesn't work I believe you may need a CMOS reset.

 

I like how nobody cares to tell the guy that his scores are absolutely normal.

Also unpark cores when you see all 8 cores running on his youtube video. *Facepalm*.

isn't @Phoenix the guy who mentioned that he is so good at optimization of windows 10 and such? Maybe he could help.

 

"you get 30%-40% fps lower than you used to in all games" ... These are his own words. Scores are meaningless when a GTX1070 dips to 10 fps in Ryse Son of Rome.

 

So telling him to unpark unparked CPU's is going to help right?
Him worrying about low scores which are normal scores not telling him that his scores are absolutely average will also help the guy right?

You know at this point that his notebook runs fine on stresstest but not on games, which can help for finding a solution.

Also the guy is actually a victim of the Pascal problem.

 

He said a full power drain fixed his problem for some time (Which has nothing to do with OS optimization), that's why I recommended a Bios factory default settings reset or CMOS reset because it seems that he may be having a power sustainability/stability problem that may be a result of Bios corruption. People are trying to help in the best of their knowledge. So I would recommend that you do the same or let those who are willing do so.

 

There is one thing you guys have missed and it's the 64 fps cap. I have a GT62VR and mine used to cap fps to that and stutter like hell in some games that were running windowed (gta v is an example), simply forcing them into fullscreen (using alt+enter) worked for me.

Check if your games are running fullscreen or not and if you can/have other game to test please do so.

 

@Unhappy User

1) What nVIDIA Driver version are you using now? Do note that when you set the Power Management in NVCPL to High Performance, a reboot is required for it to take effect so make sure you've done that.

2) The Intel Chipset Software version has nothing to do with this

3) Can you open Intel XTU and show me a screenshot of the All Controls Page. I wanna see what is your Processor Core IccMax is

To reset your BIOS to factory defaults without removing the CMOS Battery do this:

A) Turn off your laptop

B) Press and hold the power button for 35 seconds, you will see it power cycle on and off, do not release the power button until 35 seconds have elapsed

C) Enter BIOS when it boots up and reconfigure your settings like AHCI or RAID, etc.

 

Thank you for reading @Phoenix ,

1. Nvidia Drivers: I used DDU to try various nvidia drivers but that had no effect whatsoever on the type of problem I am facing. 381.89 were working great for 7 months up until the problem happened in October. Then I tried 382.05, then 388, and now settled on 385.69. Again no change. I am aware of the need to restart after setting power plan to high performance in nvidia cp, thanks.

2. Intel Chipset Driver: Noted thanks.

3. Intel XTU All Controls Page: Core IccMax is 70.00A. I was not happy of any of the CPU scores in all my posted tests, it is always below average but within acceptable range for the 6700HQ, except for the Single Core test in Cinebench R15 which was good.


4. BIOS Reset: There is an option inside my BIOS to revert to default bios settings, I already used that and it changed nothing. Is the power button method any different? I was actually asking about resetting the CMOS in my original post, not BIOS. I found my answer on msi forums but wont do it as it requires opening the case.

Note: Problem of degraded framerates across all games started before the Fall Creator update was installed, and persisted after it got installed.

 

Change it from 70A to 100A (a reboot will probably be required)

Raising that limit will not harm your CPU, it just tells it that it can use more power when it needs to. So you are basically upping the limit

Also, the BIOS reset method I showed you is a full RESET similar to a CMOS battery pull. not a soft reset which does nothing as you mentioned.

Try upping the limit to 100A first then test, if that doesn't work, try resetting the BIOS like I showed you

These are my XTU Settings:

 

@Unhappy User

How come your Processor Cache Frequency is higher than your Processor Frequency? Did you change anything? something's not right there

 

I just downloaded and installed intel XTU right after reading your post. Never used it before. Here's another fresh screenshot: [High Performance Power Plan same as before]

 

That's normal.

 

I only use the version that comes bundled with the MSI Dragon Center. Using any newer version will make the link between the 2 programs not work, as in, you would choose a certain profile in MSI Dragon Center, but nothing will happen in XTU

Uninstall XTU now, then go to your laptop's driver's page, download MSI Dragon Center from the utilities, install it then reboot.

then immediately open XTU, click on settings, and disable the update notification so it won't prompt you to update it.

 

No it's not, the CPU Cache Frequency is usually lower than the CPU Frequency. At best, it would be the same.

 

Phoenix,

I already successfully tested the link between dragon center and XTU and it works fine, when i change dragon center to sports mode XTU displays max Processor frequency as ~3.33GHz, when switched to Eco, it goes back down to ~1GHz on XTU. Do you still require me to uninstall xtu and install the one that is bundled with dragon center?

 

Guys please...I am doing my best to provide everybody with the data they need and hopefully reach a happy ending. I sincerely appreciate all your constructive contributions very much. It is very stressful as it is.

 

Your CPU is throttling that's why your CPU Cache Frequency is higher.

 

I have tried to cleanup this discussion a little bit.
Keep it civil guys.

Thanks for understanding.

 

No the CPU is not throttling, you simply don't understand how to read XTU. Also this isn't throttling, this is some limitation MSI set if this were throttling, it would flucuate, which it doesn't, it's as stable as it can be. (limit != throttle)

 

I am going to disclose some good progress and unrevealed information in this post.

My CPU does throttle on Auto Fan mode while gaming battlefield 3 and Ryse Son of War, Core#0 reaching 91C. However, the screenshot of XTU was under no load so it was not throttling then.

I firmly believe that thermal throttling is not the root cause of my problem because I keep getting low fps with wide fluctuations on all these old games even when Max Fan RPM is enabled and CPU/GPU temps are kept below 85C. The youtube video in the first post shows you how I have normal temps for all CPU cores, yet low FPS.

I did send my laptop to MSI last week for repasting and cleaning the fans, and they shipped it back with a report saying "Replaced CPU Fan". Over the phone they also confirmed replacing the heat pipes and thermal paste. Yet the CPU core#0 and core#2 still reach 91C on Auto Fan mode while playing BF3.

Yes I am very disappointed of the quality of work at MSI Repair Center in Markham, Ontario Canada. Installing heat pipes, new fan, and applying a paste job should be performed with perfection and proper training if you really want to sell Gaming Laptops.

A fellow member on this forum (to be disclosed) provided me with a great advice to overclock the GPU clock by +175MHz and that did help a lot in stabilizing the framerates, no more crazy dips below 40fps, and also increase the FPS level to above 100. Yes the CPU still throttles If i set fans to Auto but the framerates are not affected much.

Is this a permanent fix? Not sure because the original stock clock speeds of the GPU were working great for 7 months without any OC'ing. Why do i have to overclock now to get the same old games i used to play run smoothly again?

At least it is progress.

 

really? so does mine show this? My laptop is an MSI, just like yours it seems

 

Difference being locked vs unlocked CPU. Fine little detail you missed.

My clevo which has a 4940mx has also stable 4ghz all cores, meanwhile the 6700HQ notebook I have here has different multipliers causing the read to be messed up, which isn't fixable.

No need to disclose, just don't overhype it...
It's not really a perm fix, as I explained to you why your notebook is acting the way it does, you need to find out what triggers the card to behave like this. It's better to find the cause that triggers the sensors to do what they do that way you will gain not only your stock but beyond stock performance thanks to the overclock. Thats why I think it's better for you when you try and see what is causing this (example disabling DVR, unnstalling it and restart after disable). You might want to check forums if there are any known Windows Updates causing this like the one turning DVR on and installing it again.

 

BTW, by default, my MSI Processor ICC Core Max is set to Auto, that causes the speeds to jump up and down between whatever clock speed I have set (4.1 GHz in my case) and 3.6 GHz, it's never stable, and if I run any benchmark or game it throttles , not a thermal throttle. But setting the Processor ICC Core Max to 100A (up from the default 75A) fixes this and the cores are stable at 4.10 GHz

@Unhappy User

Try undervolting by -70mV and test the temps + FPS

 

This isn't unknown. It's infact very well known since the haswell CPU's. The stock AMP settings are garbage and the multipliers aren't in sync either. If anyone got an unlocked CPU (haswell or newer) ramping up the AMP limit and maximum Wattage will give stable clockspeed across the board, even with low voltage. Most manufacturers do this AMP limit so that they can cool down the CPU tremendiously, which it does.

I told him to undervolt as well, the CPU manages at least -125-150mv in most cases. (yes, they are that heavyly underclocked)

 

Finally we agree on something

 

I always agree to facts.

For refrence of all the 6 MSI notebooks with a 6700HQ I had here, the average undervolt was about 140ish. The 6700HQ notebook which is a GT72 runs currently at -135, never crashed. For some reason MSI syncs all their cores to the lowest clock on MSI notebooks with 6700HQ's, why? Dno.

Note: This syncing only happens when stressing the CPU, in other apps it is random as can be. hence the higher chace clock speed (which you can seperately clock) is higher than the clockspeed on 6700HQ MSI notebooks.

It isn't any kind of throttling, but a set limitation from MSI, since there are no temp or power issues according to XTU, HW64 etc., not only that but the 3.1ghz is stable as can be, while on throttling casesit would be unstable.

The thing OP suffers from is the "pascal problem", NVIDIAs crap power management system inside the GPU die which behaves insanely bad, it's triggered by some type of windows 10 software I assume, since OP isn't the only one who has this issue. Yes, even desktop owners with GTX 1070s face this issue.

Interestingly only the 1070 seems to be affected by this thus far.

Now a little freebee for you @Phoenix :
Undervolting the cache frequency and underclocking it, can cause the core clock speed to run more stable and cooler on higher frequencies. Infact some people have underclocked the cahce frequency to high 2ghzish or low 3ghish to be able to get their CPU +100 - +200mhz more clockspeed, which they werent able to before since it seems to improve stability (at least for haswell based CPU's), I ran a test, where it was impossible to get my 4940MX to 4.5ghz, now it can easily run at 4.5ghz tanks to tweaking the cache.

 

So...What are my options now? Correct me If Im Wrong:

1. Keep the laptop and: Overclock the GPU core by +200MHz as tested to achieve high/stable fps (thanks to Danishblunt), Undervolt the CPU by -70mV to prevent thermal throttling, Allow Phoenix into the BIOS to perform some magic tricks, and Pray to never need any thermal repaste or new fans ever again because the MSI Repair Center in Markham is not qualified for such kind of simple maintenance

2. Refund the laptop after 7 months of use, and hope it goes without a fight with the shop manager

3. Replace the laptop, but for what? Another MSI GT Laptop? Another GTX1070 laptop that apparantly does not cope nicely with Win10? What is one gaming laptop with the best cooling solution on the market?

Gentlemen, do we all agree those are my only 3 options after all the analysis done in this thread?

 

To be honest pascal itself is a nuisence. Proper repaste and undervolt will give you incredible temps on the CPU, especially since the CPU doesn't require much power. Other notebooks tend to have way more severe temp issues.

If you do an MSI recovery and don't let windows 10 update, it might be working properly again, the thing is, even if this fixes it, I don't think that's an acceptable solution since reverting it back every time windows decides to update is not really a permanent solution to me.

Personally I'd probably go for keeping the notebook and trying to fix the issue, honestly for all we know Microsoft might even fix this issues which triggers the pascal power management at some point, but instead I'd probably try and figure out what exacly is causing this. Obviously when you do benchmarks like firestrike and cinebench you have exacly the expected performance, so the hardware itself is fine when stressed, however the moment the hardware isn't stressed pascal's stupid power management gets in the way and nerfs the performance on non full load, and since apparently clockspeed != performance in pascal, it's a true pain in the ass. Working with pascal is a true nightmare.

 

655cb in Cinebench R15 is all too low for 6700hq. And @Unhappy User even run without bloat.

 

@Danishblunt So you call it a "pain in the ass" and a "nightmare" and then you recommend that i keep the laptop and try to "fix the issue"...

 

@Papusan yes i agree the Cinebench R15 Multicore score is lower than average for the 6700HQ. And yes it is run in a clean bloat-free environment. What can i do about it?

 

Yeah, would you rather downgrade to an old GTX 980M notebook?

 

How about switching to AMD GPUs? HP Omen series is carrying them