MMO's do not require good hardware?

Just got my new M17x with the supposedly awesome 7970M. Guess how many fps I get playing WoW standing in Stormwind?

30 fps...

at 1080p with settings maxed and a browser open at NBR on a second display also at 1080p

It's 45 fps if I don't have the second window open.

Just an FYI for every idiot that says you don't need good hardware to max out WoW and similar games: You are wrong.

EDIT: CURRENT STATE OF THINGS POSTED BELOW, IGNORE POSTS ABOUT SSAA AND SUCH

Switched over to fullscreen with second display turned off to satisfy curiosities: it does improve fps but not by a lot.









That's where I am right now.

 

did you capped your fps recording in 30fps? or tweaked in CCC?

Just saying blizzard games don't need really good hardware to max out their game.

 

It's capped at 60 with V-sync, just running 25-35 around SW because you guys saying it doesn't need good hardware are dead wrong.

It turns out I lied, settings weren't quite maxed out. I'm now at 15-25 fps in SW with fully maxed settings.

 

Depends on what your definition of "maxed" is. If you turn on SSAA, ambient occlusion, and possibly other post processing effects, you can make performance almost as arbitrarily bad as you want. Just keep on cranking up the AA.

Doesn't change the fact that WoW and similar games will run with much better performance and high settings on much less. I'm not sure anyone suggested that it would be impossible to set things up so that performance is bad just because you have good hardware. Turn on 8x SSAA and it's over. That doesn't necessarily look any different than 4X MSAA, but you're certainly free to check the box and cut performance by a factor of 10 or more.

 

Sounds like you are having a serious driver issue or running on the Intel HD 4000...

 

WoW has increased their hardware requirements since The Burning Crusade, but it did run quite nice on my HD 6970m last time i booted up a trial account to check performance.
It also ran faster in Dx11 mode for me even with the added special effects.

Combine your HD 7970m with a decent quad core CPU (You got that covered) and a SSD for the client and the game will fly for you.

 

Max means max. Everything turned all of the way up. How would it mean anything else?

Yes this is with 8x SSAA because that is max settings... it is not running on the intel graphics.

I was under the assumption that the 7970M would give me 60 fps with everything on max settings like every post on this forum leads one to believe, turns out I may have wasted a lot of $$ on a system that is not nearly as good as I thought.

 

Open GPU-Z and make sure the 7970M is selected at the bottom, then go to the sensors tab, tick log to file at the bottom, play the game for 10 mins and then upload that text file for us to see.

EDIT - Sorry, forgot that GPU-Z may not see the data.

Get HWiNFO64, launch sensors and hit 'Logging Start' at the bottom, save, play the game for 10 mins, stop logging and upload the CSV file.

 

7970M is just an underclocked desktop 7870. You don't need to be led to believe "anything". Looking around it says the desktop 7870 is slightly faster than the desktop 6970 in average FPS.

Should have bought nVIDIA for WoW.
http://media.bestofmicro.com/I/N/331151/original/wow-1920.png
http://media.bestofmicro.com/I/O/331152/original/wow-2560.png

580 beating the 7970 with AA.

 

This is annoying as hell. GPU-Z won't even launch and HWiNFO64 doesn't even see the AMD GPU.

The CCC settings are affecting my framerates, so I assume that the AMD GPU is being utilized.

What else can I do?

 

Run it on sensible settings? The difference in visual quality between anti aliasing when you really start to crank it and go into the performance hogging territory is almost none. If you lower the AA a little then you should have no problems and be flying. If you just want to push every slider to the max whithout realising it makes zero real world difference for bragging rights then grow up.

If you've tried running at sensible settings and it's still playing badly then I'd be a little less condescending and would be more willing to help, however I see no evidence for this.

 

Moving AA to 1x MS and most everything else down still puts me at ~40fps flying around SW.

Besides, by benchmarks I should be seeing 60+ fps at ultra with 8x AA and I am not, more like 20-30...

 

Just FYI but if you enable V-Sync and it can't hit 60FPS, it gets capped at 30FPS so that it can still stay in sync with the 60Hz refresh rate. As for the 'awesome hardware,' keep in mind these are laptop parts. My desktop GTX 680 runs circles around your puny little mobile 7970M .

If your results are really that bad compared to what reviews indicate you should get you either have driver issues or something is simply wrong with your system. But sliding every graphics option over to max and complaining about the settings won't get you anywhere. AA and AF can be incredibly taxing on most systems, even desktop cards. Try replicating the results in the reviews (same exact settings and resolutions) and post back your results (including what settings you used and what reviews you read).

 

The problem is the drivers dell ships with the 7970m. You need to figure out what Slick and the other guys are using. With proper drivers you should be perfectly fine.

I run Tera at maxed settings 1080p and am at locked 60 FPS 95% of the time, this is a truly stunning MMO running the Unreal 3 engine, much more demanding than WoW. I have not played WoW on my new laptop yet, but on my old desktop I ran it maxed at 60 FPS, and my 580m is roughly twice as fast as my old desktop card.

 

That's a good point. AMD drivers are available on their website but be sure to select the mobility ones. Last I checked 12.4 is now available.

 

I just upgraded to the same drivers as Slick and saw a ~2-3 fps increase. Something is just plain not working. This is ridiculous.

 

This is a community forum. The information that you get from people here is not official information. You have to make a personal assessment on the validity of any statements that are made here.

If some post led you to believe that the 7970m would play any game at playable frame rates and 1080p + 8xSSAA, well then, that's unfortunate that you built your expectations around misinformation. No games will be playable at 8xSSAA and 1080p. That's like trying to render the game at 15000*8600, it's not even close to realistic in real time on modern hardware, even for a relatively low requirements game like WoW, and most people aren't talking about this when they say max settings, because SSAA in particular isn't meant for real time 3d in full resolution anyway, so it's outside of the scope of "game" settings.

Of course, this doesn't change the fact that the 7970m is the fastest mobile GPU that exists, so it's not like you could have picked something more powerful if your expectations were different. You'll just need to temper your expectations to the reality of the capabilities of modern hardware. If you just have "max out" envy / ocd, you'll have to find a way to enjoy your games without worrying about the positions of the sliders in the control panel and the settings menu. It's as if it was the 90's and you were upset that your SNES games aren't in 3D with dynamic shadows. It's just totally outside of the capabilities of modern hardware and your expectations are way out in left field.

Perhaps part of that comes from not understanding what the graphics settings actually represent, especially in the control panel, and just operating on the underlying assumption that the best hardware should be able to use the maximum settings for the games you are interested in.

Keep in mind, for every game that ever comes out, I can create a graphics setting that brings performance out of the playable range, no matter what hardware you have. "Max settings" isn't a well defined term, so don't worry about meeting that mark, because that mark doesn't exist.

 

It's not just community posts. Legit sites are telling me I should see 75+ fps with 8x AA and I can't even get 60fps with 1x AA. Something is radically wrong.

 

Alright, let's try to separate the game from the GPU. First off, could you download and run 3dMark Vantage with the standard profile (its the only one available when you use the free version). Can you link to the full results page that will pop up when the test is complete? That'll at least help rule out driver issues or anything like that.

Next up, maybe post screen shots showing ALL the settings from not only CCC but the in game WoW settings. Again, that'll help us ID which settings might be too much or which simply shouldn't be enabled.

 

what type of AA are you using? MS / Adaptive / SS?

from the control center settings: check the AMD optimization for tessellation, especially if you are playing with DX11 settings.

uncheck morphological filtering, check the "use application settings" box for anti-aliasing.

Under catalyst AI, leave the slider in the middle (quality), check the box that says enable surface format optimization

You can leave mipmap detail level all the way to the right (High Quality)

Vertical Refresh should be set to: Off, unless application specifies

Under Anti-Aliasing Mode: select Multi-Sample AA (the left option)

Start there. Then run 3dmark 11 as suggested. Post the results. Post a screenshot of your WoW settings as well.

 

Generic VGA video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-3610QM Processor,Alienware M17xR4 score: P20199 3DMarks

P20199 vantage

P5776 3dmark11

working on screenshots now

 

It's not your hardware keeping you from hitting 60fps, it's the fact that you're playing an MMO on the internet. WoW is not a benchmark for hardware.

 

screenshots

 

When are you logging into the game? Is there a lot of people in the area you are at?

It doesn't sound like a hardware issue... That sounds like a lag issue from the server... I have sli 560m's and have everything as high as it goes and and getting 50+ fps in stormwind at prime time...

 

This has pissed me off too much for today. I appreciate any thoughts but will not be checking back until ~8am tomorrow. Thanks

 

Troy, ok first, that is an amazing laptop. -_-

Ok so from what I can see, there should be no bottlenecks. Even under crowded conditions, that setup should chew through anything WoW has to shoot at you at 60fps or more. The only thing really that could possibly bring your fps down was if you were using 16x aa.

All I can think of is fledgling drivers.. either in the video or the motherboard department, one of them is dragging your system down. I would def get in touch with other owners of the same laptop and compare benches.

 

I bet you its Vsync.

 

there's no readable information in any of those screenshots as far as I can tell. upload the screenshots in their original resolution to http://imgur.com/

 

Thats the most mature and calm reply on a troll post ive seen in a while

 

Yes, being upset that I can't get half the framerate I should in a supposedly non-demanding game is trolling. Fine. I'll start a new thread with only statements of supported fact after work tonight. My apologies.

 

Really dude?

Obviously the guy/gal is acting a bit childish but do you really need to be childish too with such a post? You can be a little understanding with people that are not completely tech/game savy. Please try to be understanding that after someone dropped $2 grand on one of the best laptops not "running max" settings on WOW...when its like a 10 year old game can be frustrating when you don't understand everything.

....please dont...just ignore his dumb comment and calm done and be patient. Most people here want to help and teach people....thats why we are here to try our best to inform people so they dont have unrealistic expectations and know why things happen how they do or fix what is not running correctly.

 

thats just a waste of time. do not do that. do not not engage in a forum fight. focus on resolving the issue of your hardware performance. it's either correct and your expectations are out of line, or it's not correct. it should be important to you to figure out which scenario is happening, because they will require different fixes.

you need to post readable screenshots.

 

Have you tried other games like BF3 or Metro? WOW is more CPU than GPU btw as most MMOs are.

Take Lieto post with a pinch of salt, while he is a good guys he loves WOW wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much and his post may be a bit biased. (Sorry Lieto)

 

Sometimes i am just not on the same page with you native english speakers =)
I merely admired the way he explained everything in the post and thats it.

Although most of those 4 pages are obviously trolling imho... i mean wasnt it clear since the very beginning that those settings are just there to force people buy even better hardware "to max wow" and hardly make any visual difference in reality.. even if it wasnt, it was pointed out on the first page alrdy.

 

I'll fix or redo the screenshots tonight, but to summarize:

Even with 1x MSAA I'm seeing 25-50 fps in SW at 1080p/Ultra with 12.5 beta drivers or the Dell-installed drivers, with or without V-sync. 8x SSAA brings it down to like 8-35 fps in the same area. I logged on briefly at 7:30AM (i.e. non-primetime) and frame rates were unchanged.

According to the benchmarks posted earlier I'm getting something like half the framerate I should be seeing (or even less).

I don't have any other games installed yet to try, but it really doesn't matter as WoW will make up probably 40% of the machine's use so if it doesn't run that smoothly it will get returned.

 

the summary is not very interesting. we already have that. repost the screenshots.

Also, SSAA is not relevant. It is not a setting that is meant for real time rendering on your GPU. I already went over that.

 

Can't fix screenshots until I get home. What's in them though:

All CCC settings on "Use Application Settings" or turned all of the way down.

WoW settings on Ultra with AA down to 1x.

FPS still doesn't hit 60 unless I'm in a tiny indoor area, outdoors ranges generally from 25-50 average ~40.

 

Btw if you are on highly populated server i believe spiking below 60 in stormwind ah is normal, think chances are there are more then 100-200 people around with their pets, companions and all kinds of shiny armor. Can you try it in 10m raid? Should be ok.

I think wow is horribly optimized. I am myself was playing with a mix of medium-low settings and my notebook is well above reccommended as well. In fact if i click autodetect game suggests me high-ultra settings which gets me fps spikes between 10 and 30

 

I think it is either a driver issue or a setting issue... you see what I have and I am sitting it stormwind with everything maxed and can get 60-80 fps, but then again it is 10am here so there is not many people on...

couple of questions...

What drivers are you using?

Are you using the 32bit or 64 bit version of wow?

How is your connection? What is your latency for both home and world?

When you get home can you please post the imagines so we can get a better view of them.

We are trying to help you figure out why you are not getting the max out of your card...

Edit:

Also can you download gpu-z and post a screenshot of it...

 

lol I played WoW for a couple of days when I first got my 485m and I had an enormous number of fps - something is wrong with your GPU, your drivers are messed up, you have stealth mode on, or you're trolling everyone.

 

This is most likely not a driver/hardware issue. Please check somewhere other than Stormwind. The problem is the high population concentrated in one small area forcing you to render an insane amount of effects/movements. I could only get 20 FPS in Dalaran when I played in WOTLK, even though I was able to get 60+ in ICC.

Also, you don't need to play on Ultra if you aren't getting the desired results. The difference from the highest and 2nd highest settings are almost non-distinguishable, but may have substantial FPS differences.

You have to remember, reviewers don't actually have time to test/play the game when they benchmark. Many have a 'routine' path/situation they do every time. For all you know, they could test for 3 minutes and just walk from the starting zone to the first big city, log off and report the results. There are so many variables and the only way to be sure is to do it yourself. Masterchef341 knows what he is talking about here.

Edit: Also, is WoW the only game where your results don't line up? Try another game. . . that's the only way you'll know if it's the hardware or the game itself.

 

There may also be an issue where the benchmarks you are using for reference aren't taken from that area. This might be problematic for you if you were building your worst case performance model off of such benchmarks. High population areas can be very taxing compared to other game areas. However, the performance can also be highly variable depending on the time of day, server conditions, etc - So they're often avoided for benchmarks, which usually strive to find relative performance and depend on reliable benchmarks over worst case benchmarks.

 

My 1year+ G53SW gets 45-50 FPS in Stormwind during peak hours (Dragonblight server, mid-pop) with 4X MSAA, if you just bought a flaming, firebreathing M17X R4 and get anything less than 40 I think there is something wrong.

 

xonar, my lowly gtx 460 and Q6600 cpu gets fine 1080p maxed detail frame rates, maybe dipping into the teens at times. My 460 is being processor bound to boot. With an i7 and that video chipset, and the memory running over 1g, there is nothing left to slow it down.

Edit: Actually let me retract that. Make sure you do NOT have shadows maxed out! Put it one click inwards. If it still functions the same as it did when it was first implemented, it will be applying shadows to any object it can, be if near or far. It is pretty much never done in games (There is always a certain distance away that they cut off so performance dosn't drag the whole game down with it) and was only put there for future proofing.

 

Lol! I'm not surprised with this post. A troll accusing someone of trolling.

Seriously, there must be a problem, just dont know where. You should be getting better fps than me. I'm from Kil'jaeden, its always full and I'm getting no less than 60 fps.

 

I think we are putting too much stress on the idea that it could be a video issue. MMO's are very CPU stressing and even the top processor from Intel or AMD is going to break a sweat when standing around in Stormwind or Orgrimmar. I have played WoW since beta, on many systems and regardless of how powerful the CPU was/is, all of the activity that goes on in a high population area, there is going to be drop in framerates. Take your character elsewhere in the game where there is minimal player activity yet surroundings that push your GPU (ie, Deepholm). Try doing a 5 man instance. What are your framerates like under these conditions?
*edit* What mode are you running in? Windowed, Windowed FS, FS?

 

Wouldn't a CPU bottleneck mean that reducing settings has no effect in FPS? I thought he said he saw a bump every time he reduced some setting?

 

I think he's running in windowed mode (or windowed fullscreen, which is the same performance penalty). OP should definitely switch to fullscreen, among other things.

 

gonna throw in my 2 cents:

WoW and other mmorpgs are very cpu intensive. On one i used to play, which looks alot better than WoW, i would only get 50% Gpu usage and in cities it would drop down to 15%. This means that the cpu is the bottle neck.

What cpu do u have?

Is it possible that your cpu is not reaching full speed / turbo? I have a i7-2720qm in a lenovo laptop and when I game and stuff, my cpu won't hit the 3.3Ghz turbo speed UNLESS i turn on Throttlestop, so try downloading throttlestop, and follow the guide and uncheck any downclocking options.
See if that helps your performance.

other things you can try:
update chipset drivers
update DirectX

 

Are you running 2 monitors at once, had framerate problems when I did. Switched to 1 monitor and full screen and all was better.

Sorry if this doesn't help.