My mobile fermi dilemma...

Hey guys, first time poster. I came here and decided to register as I have seen allot of good input.

I am in somewhat of a dilemma. Today i ordered an Origin eon18 Laptop. I am huge into Crysis and really want a DX11 gpu in the new laptop so I can take advantage of all the eye candy in Crysis 2. I considered the Alienware but in the past Dell has been less then the best in their service. I found Origin which was created by the same guys who created alienware and left after dell bought them. They only use Nvidia GPU's and I contacted them about DX11. They were great to work with and made a deal with me that when when mobile fermi came out they would swap out my GTX280 that is coming in my eon18. They also told me the mobile fermi chips would be out within 3 months so that's how long they would honor the swap. Well after lots of reading im a bit nervous that these fermi mobile gpu's may not make it here before my 3 months is up. At this point I really wonder if I should cancel the order because the gpu may not be here in time. I dropped $2500 on this laptop and am going to be royally irritated if I dont get my fermi.
Basically Im looking for input as to what you would do or if anyone has any more solid info on when and if mobile fermi will be here?

Thanks a bunch guys!

 

Mobile Fermi within 3 months? I find that very, very hard to believe. Nvidia can barely get the desktop Fermi working within PCIe power requirements. And someone promised you a mobile Fermi? Sounds a heck of a lot like someone wanting a commission at all costs.

Why not go with a proper DX11 supporting chip like the 5870? It's a screamer of a GPU, and it uses much less power to get the work done than any Nvidia chip.

 

If and when mobile Fermi comes out, it will probably be regarded the same way that the desktop cards are. Hot, power hungry, too expensive for the performance, but if you have two $500 (each) SLI GPUs then it will be top performance but without any battery life and a 20lbs notebook .

Considering the delays that Fermi went through just for the desktop cards, I highly doubt a 3 month time frame for mobile cards is realistic.

If you are paying $2500 for a notebook that a company is claiming will be available in three months I have to call "scam" on that one.

 

thats the 4th source i have heard quote 3 months for fermi mobile

watch out end of june/july

 

FYI, Origin sells rebranded Clevos, the same laptops sold by Sager, ibuypower, malibal, and a few dozen other brands. The Eon15 is available with HD5870 if you buy from other resellers (and it's probably cheaper from others, too).

I think you should cancel your order and buy from a more reputable Clevo reseller like XoticPC, Malibal, or RJTech. You'll probably save some money, and for DX11 support you should get a W870CU (NP8760 from Sager) with the HD5870.

And I'm with Pita - I seriously doubt we'll see mobile Fermi by then.

 

Source or not, another thing we learned about the desktop Fermi? Nothing is "trustworthy" until the retail cards are already available. Those cards went through delay after delay after delay, and you have no guarantee that it will happen.

 

Most of your sentiments have echoed through other forums, the uncertainty. I feel good about Origin though as the sales rep told me he had to go to one of the founders to even approve such an agreement. I felt good about that but now am nervous as hell as what the result will be here. I dont think any of us have a crystal ball so i really hope I just didnt drop that kind of cash to find out "no dice".

 

You do realize CryTek was very upset over the PC sales and piracy. They specifically said they don't really care as much about PC anymore as much as console. I do not think Crysis 2 will be as good as Crysis 1.

I don't understand why you would be upset because you don't get your FERMI. Already Nvidia said for budget in order to get price down they will be release 128 Core FERMI instead of the 480 in the current GTX480. For mobile use, this is what you are probably going to get. The FERMI desktop core is more than twice the size of the HD5870, so it will NOT be a die shrink. You are looking at massive reduction of shader cores.
- Or it will just be a rebadge. Why get angry over a rebadge?

And how do you know the Mobile FERMI will even be released on SLI?

Yep. And when they were released they are worse than people predicted. Less core, less power, far less performance everyone was expecting, high prices and overall overhead costs ridiculous. Need a new power source and water cooling if you don't want to hear a 45db fan right into your ear constantly.

 

Well it seems im going to take the gamble. I got nervous after reading all this and contacted Origin about my concerns. I told them that no one really knows if fermi will be delayed AGAIN. I told them that unless the timeline constraint was lifted I would have to cancel the order. Once again one of the founders of Origin went ahead and gave the ok, they will do the swap regardless of timeline for fermi to hit the market. THAT is customer service my friends. I have put my poor rep through his paces today with tons of email and calls and he has always worked with me. Every other company I have bought from in the past I have had to go through 20 extensions before I get a human being, let alone one that speaks english. With Origin I dial one number and get an english speaking human right away every time. Now take that great service and make it lifetime (which origin does) and you have the makings of a truly great company.

Perhaps im nuts for giving these guys a shot and waiting on this whole fermi thing but I will stand by my guns and see what transpires. I will also keep you guys updated as things work if nothing else so perhaps others can learn from my dealings with Origin.

Wish me luck!

 

You must call weird companies.

Everytime I talk to PowerNotebooks, XoticPC, GenTech, XcaliberPC, I get a human being with straight answers.
- Unlike Origins they don't BS me with speculations either. They say, I don't know when they don't know.
- And their CS is top notch.

Origins is not special.
- You do know that a Sager notebook comes with better warranty than Origins right? Don't kid yourself, it's the same Notebook too, except not a fancy name like Eon18.

 

I will summarise by saying, if you don't cancel your order as soon as possible, you will definitely regret not doing so.

 

am I the only one who thinks it's some sort of a PR-move happening here? ... or i'm just getting way too paranoid

 

It's as fluffy as any marketing ploy I've seen

 

To each his own, I was simply speaking of my past experiences with other PC companies. And just to play fair they said they dont know and are now going to honor the swap regardless of the time table. I doubt any of these other companies would be willing to do that, but who knows...

My intent is not to sit here and throw crayons. This is my little journey I thought I would share. People are always researching large purchases and I have not been able to find much at all about the laptop I purchased. If anything it will give some data to those out there who one day find themselves in my shoes.

Someone will always sell something cheeper then the next guy, that's as certain as taxes....

 

Ha, I actually kind of feel that way! Im just standing by them so far because ive called like an idiot 10 times today always asking for more and they have always backed me up. Who knows, maybe this will turn out ot be a POS laptop and then all of you can say i told you so (obviously im hoping IM the one who tells you guys I told you so ....

PS, if you check my IP im from Ohio, Origin is in Florida I believe.

 

Yep, cancel and order the same laptop through XoticPC or PowerNotebooks (or GenTech, or RJTech, or...)

Here's why: Reseller ratings of Xotic, PN, and most of the others? >95%. Reseller ratings of Origin? None!

I wouldn't trust them! There was a company selling these laptops a while back, offering warranties that were too good to be true. Turns out, the company disappeared, the guy owning it packed up and moved, and dozens of people got screwed out of their warranty.

You have NO GUARANTEE that they will hold up their deal (and they probably won't, either, because mobile fermi cards are going to be EXPENSIVE!).

Cancel ASAP, demand your money back, and go through a well-known, trusted, respected company!

 

dont remember offering any guarantee??

 

I remember reading Nvidia saying to expect GTX480 summer of 2009, the fall of 2009 and then pushed back to February 2010, possibly March.

 

improved

 

dont know where you are, i can get my hands on em if i wanted or felt inclined

 

I agree.. u might get scammed... all the ppl here can tell u that gentechpc.com or xoticpc.com have nice rep and are genuine.. anyways as far as mobile ferni goes , wait till next year guys.. and it will be so downsized that ATI will pwen it! Cancel ur order and get a Sager Np8690 or Asus G73 with a 5870.. it will pwen anything NVDIA has now!

 

...For that mony you can buy a Asus G73Jh-A2,a SSD, in fact, 2 SSD's and a bunch of games.

 

Or, you could wait what i would guess to be the same amount of time and get a 6000 series ATI card at the point when mobile fermi comes out

 

Every source is backing the June/July date, but GF 104 is looking like a Q3 release.

Just wait and see.

 

Just curious as to why you say they are more reputable?

Richard

 

Because these companies have been around for almost a decade or more.

Origins, no one knows about. Just one of the many companies who decided, wouldn't it be cool to sell branded Clevos? Then they go under. Cause people realize, paying more for the same thing is really dumb.

The other part, the warranty. What good is a warranty if the company goes under in a year or two?

 

There is a rather long and sordid history of Clevo resellers on these forums. The laptops are among the most expensive in existence and so it is important to get a warranty and buy from people who will honor that warranty. The latter has not been trivial for many people for various reasons (reseller goes out of business, reseller keeps the laptop for months on end, reseller makes as if it vanished from the face of the earth, etc.). The ones in that list have been around for several years and people have not heard too many horror stories about them (i.e. people have complained about various things, but it didn't get to the point where most people would say it's fraud).

If you're wondering why the promise about mobile Fermi is enough to set some alarms off, the issue is that it is extremely unlikely that mobile Fermi will be out in 3 months. Desktop Fermi cards are 200W+, 60db+, 90C+ monsters and even those are only out on paper (I don't see any store that has them in stock). The probability of Nvidia being able to produce something of this sort that can be put in a laptop within 3 months is practically zero -- look at how long it took them with GT200 and those cards were nowhere near as hot, scarce or troublesome.

Thus, anyone who is expecting mobile Fermi within 3 months is either woefully misinformed, deliberately misleading or knows something that nobody else here does. The latter is very unlikely while the prior two are something one generally does not want to see in a reseller (the second is worse, but the first one isn't particularly good either).

To the original poster: are you sure you did not misunderstand? It is quite possible that Nvidia will come out with the mobile 400 cards (e.g. 480M), but these will almost certainly not be mobile Fermi. They'll be relabeled and/or die shrunk GT200 parts, just like the 9000M and 200M series cards were all relabeled die shrinks of G92b.

 

I can understand that. And yes Origin is a new company, however my partners and myself have been doing this for over a decade. The reason we started Origin is to pick up where we Left off when we were with that other company And correct we are just a reseller of Clevo. Except for a couple manufactures, Asus and Apple come to mind, everyone is a reseller of a Notebook ODM. Even large Tier 1 Companies outsource and work with the ODM to provide a notebook solution. So what sets everyone apart is the service provided and how a company stands behind their product. Like I said earlier we're a new company but have more experience than a majority of the boutique companies around now. We know what works, what doesn't, who to partner with and how to work with our partners to develop and improve their road maps. For example our notebook PM came with us from that other place, he was responsible for several product inovations that are still being used in current notebooks. In our short time since Origins launch we have been able to go direct and secure partnerships that would normally take a company years to develop. I'm not trying to come off as Origin is the greatest thing since sliced bread, just want to assure you that we're not a company formed by three guys who thought.... Wow that looks easy, let's do that!!


We realize it's not easy to part with thousands of $$$, even more so with how things are now. Our main goal is taking care of customers before and after a sale. After all hardware is hardware, you Have plenty of options to choose from when buying a PC, what's going to set another company apart over the other is customer service. That's where our experience and knowledge of the industry sets us apart. In my opinion that's what I felt was lacking in the boutique segment.


Richard

 

Yeah I read that other person designed the case cover for Alienware. Incredible stuff that innovation.

But good luck with your company and hope it goes well for you.

Clevo notebook is a Clevo notebook to me, buying it straight from RJTech without any decorative junk would be preferable to me or just get a Sager which offers a better warranty for less. Sager offers 24/7 tech support and for only $139 more get 2 year parts and labor.

As for CS, for G73 owners, Ken at GenTech was posting at 2 A.M on this forums and replying to emails to his customers. I just don't see how you can improve upon CS than what these other companies already do, for no extra charge.

 

Actually I was talking about upgradeable graphics/ not onboard........the case cover was outsourced to a design company

 

Can you please provide us source that Origins former Alienware execs had anything to do with the invention of modular GPU for notebooks?
- I am being picky as you are advertising your company right now as saying it has a member that was part of innovating modular GPUs for notebooks.
- Far as I'm concerned it's ATi and Clevo.

 

Why don't we trust you?

Two reasons:

1) Matt O'Byrne/Hybridgear/PCMW

2) Your prices are substantially higher than other Clevo resellers. Just looking at the NP8690, with all specifications equal, XoticPC charges fully $300 less than you do (plus or minus change depending on other options).

So tell me Richard, what guarantee do we have that you and all of your business partners are not "Matt O'Byrne"s? And what guarantee do we have that you won't go out of business in the next three years?

If you're legit, and if your products will be safely backed, I apologize sincerely. But the kind of guarantees you're making with free upgrades for Fermi make me a little skeptical, and the differences in prices are very concerning. I'm sure you can understand.

 

We're on several forums, I reply at all hours 7 days a week as well And after hours the department heads have the calls forwarded to them. It's not uncomm for sales and service outside of our normal hours. We also have life time support with all of our systems, this includes phone and e-support as well as labor.

You can read some customer reviews on trust link and alienwareorigin.com

I appriciate you well wishes, all I ask is don't rule us out w/o giving us a chance or at least read up on current Origin customer experiences.


If anyone ever has any questions about Origin, feel free to PM me.

Richard

 

Don't go posting about how inventive your crew is without backing it up!

Alienware releases their first upgradable GPU in 2003. But oh wait, Voodoo released theirs before Alienware. Oh wait, they were both Clevo machines with new names... and later Hypercomputer releases there, again the exact same Clevo machine.

 

Not saying we did.... Our current notebook PM was the Notebook PM That worked with the ODM to develop it....

 

You can't guarantee that... Any company can fold at anytime.


And as far as the upgrade to Fermi, it was approved to give full credit back for the current card (not free , he would have to return the other card and pay the differenc)

 

Guessing PM is project manager and not some other abbreviation?

Can you give us proof that your Notebook PM worked with ATi to invent this? Why would your notebook PM want this awesome innovation to be released by Voodoo before Alienware?
Can you provide proof that your Notebook PM worked with Nvidia to release MXM for the GeForce 6 series?
- As a representative of a company you can't just post this stuff. Where is the proof. I would definitely back away and applaud if you can back up your claims
- If you can't back it up, then it's pretty irresponsible to be posting this don't you think?

Also this is pretty huge, arguably one of the biggest innovations to high end notebook computing in the last 8 years. Why isn't any of this on Origin's website?
- I read some junk about one person was head of manufacturing. Very vague. What manufacturing? At that time it was clear Alienware was using Clevo notebooks just like Falcon Northwest, Voodoo and every other boutique custom laptop provider.

Everything I've read about Origins is so vague. I don't think can be more vague.

 

The first notebook with upgradable graphics was from a ODM called Uniwill, Alienware launced before voodoO.....

Wrong link, I'll see if I can find the link...

 

Either way, from reading the original post, seems kinda shifty to quote a part being available and offering to swap it when nobody knows for sure when it will be available, and most likely won't be for at least 6-9 months. Sounds like someone pining to make a sale providing false information.

I'm with everyone else. Buy the machine with the components you want or need and not expecting something that may or may not happen, especially for that amount of money. If they promised a free swap regardless of when the fermi was released then I'd be fine with that. Just get it in writing. But if you really want DX11, then go with the HD 5870. It's a powerful GPU and nVidia won't be able to match it for some time.

 

First upgradable laptop, Voodoo featuring the Mobility 9600 (July 2003).
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/07/16/voodoo_offers_laptop_with_upgradeable/

Alienware 51M P4 with the Nvidia 6800FX December 2003...

Since it seems M51 is Alienware's first with upgradable GPU, where is the proof that Origin current notebook PM collaborated with Nvidia to create this innovation, even though ATi hit the market first...

You still haven't back up your claims yet...

 

This entire argument is off topic. I am not sure what your vendetta is with Origin, but you should take it up with them privately - I am sure they would be more than happy to talk to you. You are awfully aggressive.

Stay on topic from this point out (I don't even want to see "OK I'll stay on topic" posts following this one).

 

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mobile/display/20040517080409.html

user upgradeable graphics....

You misunderstood, one PM could not be possible for the Complete development. I go back to what I was saying earlier about Origin being formed by a group that has been in this industry for over a decade. There were a lot talented people that lost jobs due to outsourcing. One positive of this was being able to start up a company and have a wealth of talent available.

I understand it's not for everyone. But the great thing is to have options! How boring would it be to have one manufacture for all products? Also with the launch of new companies it keeps the competition on their toes and in the end the consumer benefits, from having options as well as companies trying to out do eachother to get your business.

 

Seems I missed all the fun last night.

Let me clarify some things. I phrased my swap deal with them as to not disclose the specific details for the whole world to see. Since this is all out in thin air now I will give more details. Origin agreed to swap the gpu if I pay the difference in actual cost of the new Fermi chip. To me that is beyond fair and meets my needs of obtaining a dx11 gpu.

The whole reason I gave these guys a chance is I know the talent that is there. You dont help create one of the most successful high end brands without talent. You also dont leave said company and start your own with no funding. These guys are smart and that is what im banking on.

When I called them to order my main concern was DX11. They actually went above and beyond to facilitate my needs. The reason they said three months is I believe that is what their vendors were telling them, at least that is my take on it. I have a feeling if it would have been longer then three months they still would have made good on their word. The whole fact that they later agreed to sell me a new fermi regardless of time frame proves that.

Yes I went and saw all of these other vendors selling the same machine rebranded. And yes they were cheaper... HOWEVER, the service I have gotten so far is the best I have received from any company. No I have not ordered from some of the suggested stores but when I get good service I tend to stick with them.

You guys are calling them out saying they wont last because you have been burned before. However you are forgetting the fact that Origin could be the making of a great new company. I mean come on guys, the founder of the company took the time to come to this forum and address concerns. That shows dedication to me....

I am not biased in any way on this purchase. As I said before if it turns out to be a not so pleasant experience I will report that as I feel people need to know who they are dealing with. But as I have echoed before the service I have received to this point has been nothing short of stellar and I see no reason to think things will change.

I am really excited to get the laptop and cannot wait to start fragging. Ill throw some pics up when she arrives with my first impressions.

 

hummm... honestly, I would agree with Charles, where so much agression is coming from?

 

But the consumer public at large is not you and most likely have no access to your source and so this is an irrelevant point. Actual desktop Fermi availability to the masses won't be until April 12th ( http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/18208/34/).

The mid-range desktop Fermi cards based on the GF104 (GTS 4xx) has been reported to release sometime in Q2 2010. I would be surprised if mobile Fermi launched at the same time because of heat and power issues. But then again mobile GPUs are basically severely nerfed desktop cards in order to minimized power and heat consumption, (mobility HD5870 ~ desktop HD5770) and so it may not be all that far-fetched to see high-end mobile DX11 GPUs (GTX 480M/470M) coming in the near future.

 

First of all, we're still not sure GTX4xxm will be Fermi-based. If it isn't, would they still swap per your "agreement"? (Is the agreement even legally binding? just because it's on paper doesn't necessarily mean squat)

Second, if DX11 is your concern, why not put in the HD5870? On Origin's website, they do offer this option for the W860CU.

I have NEVER heard anyone complain about the service of XoticPC or PowerNotebooks. In fact, their service is extremely good. I suggest you give one of them a call. You can even ask about the GPU trade offer. And even if they don't give you this offer, you might still be better off selling and replacing the GPU yourself (or shipping it in and paying a fee for it).

When 3 out of 4 companies fail in the first 2 years, it is not unreasonable to be wary of a brand new company. In fact, it's just plain smart to be wary. They can have the most brilliant minds in the universe working there, and it won't necessarily be enough to keep the company afloat. Do you really want to risk such a large investment on 1 out of 4 odds?

Firstly, it shows advertisement more than it shows dedication. Second, PowerNotebooks and XoticPC reps have been around these forums for a long time, and have proven records of being very helpful, even to those who haven't bought from them.

Yes you are. An unbiased decision would be to go with a company with experience. You are biased to help out the new company with the people that you like. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you should be able to admit to yourself that that's the case.

 

Very true! i'm quite sure that 6000 series card will burn ferni!

I do have to agree with that.. i bet few of us or not at all have heard of u.. that's why some of the hostility... but really with no reputation to back ur self up with , its going to be tough to make urself trusted.. no offence and i ain't trying to be personal but that's the clear fact..

 

Cynicism without research is unproductive; undeserved hostility is injudicious; recommending one company over another, holding zero experience with either, is ill-advised.

 

Hey, I'm all for small companies with good service, and I want as many of them to survive as possible. I'd love to be able to start recommending Origin as a place to buy from.

But facts are facts and economics is economics. I'm trying to give my best, unbiased assessment of the situation.

 

Why battle with the reseller, poster was happy with his service and knows what he is getting for HIS money.
Question was about mobile FERMI which no one knows much about specs or release date.