NVidia's attempts to produce a 40nm version of GT200 were "disastrous at best"

I'm still using my old x1900xt desktop card t play games today. Games like L4D, Burnout Paradise, HL2:E2 and so on all play at 1920x1200 with AA still. Even mass effect plays quite comfortably at 1920x1200.

I have been waiting for another big jump in video cards and I think the 40nm switch is going to be my next upgrade (desktop and notebook)

 

As disappointing as it is that nVidia is rebadging them, the G92 cores are still capable. They can handle some of the newest games adequately, and apparently, there is still life in this PhysX gimmick. But when compared to the 48xx series, it only competes well when Anti-Aliasing is not involved. It gets worse when higher levels of AA are involved. So, while these new GTX cards will probably compete well against the new ATi cards (and especially if they reduce the price down, which they seem to be doing), they'll probably get slaughtered compared to the Radeon 48xxs if you can compare games running at 4x or 8xAA.

I guess the extra 512megs over the current ATi Mobility lineup would help the GTX cards a bit (maybe a lot from what I've seen with the GTS 250 reviews) due to a higher frame buffer with the extra memory. PhysX isn't going to do much

 

Ignore the GTS 250 reviews, they're bogus:

What has just been revealed, however, is the company's strategic marketing plan to revitalize the flow of consumerism in its performance segment. The fact is, a major portion of Nvidia's success in such a situation lies with the objectivity of its product reviewers. Positive reviews will go a long way in influencing the general consensus of public opinion, and therefore the company has decided to "improve," or should we say manipulate its assets.

According to Hardware.fr, the following information details Nvidia's guidelines to boards partners regarding the GTS 250 launch:

March 3rd – Reviews go live of GTS 250 1GB fast boards (738/1100)

March 10th – GTS 250 1GB and 512MB fast boards (738/1100) available for sale.

March 17th – GTS 250 1GB slow boards (738/1000) available for sale.

NOTE: The older slow 1GB (1000MHz memory) boards should not go on sale till after March 17th. The only exceptions are if partners can overclock the memory on these to hit 1100MHz.

Simply put, Nvidia is sending out higher clocked GTS 250 cards to reviewers within the first week of launch, and is then sending out slower GTS 250 cards for the majority of sales from retailers like Newegg, NCIX, Micro Center, and other distributors.

Nvidia is suggesting that its board partners hide the existence of these higher clocked review cards by branding them as "overclocked" models to avoid market confusion. The note suggests that should partners wish to sell the slower cards with 1.0ns DDR3 modules (rated up to 1000MHz) prior to March 17th, the chips must be overclocked to at least 1100MHz, or the speed of the 0.8ns modules.

Moreover, it seems as if the company is concerned about its slower 9800GTX+ stock being rebranded to meet the specifications of the GTS 250. It needs to ensure it can fit cards with both fast and slow memory chips under one product name. ​

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12329&Itemid=1

 

OT, you can even sli the gts 250 with 9800 gtx+.
people are reporting to have flashed their 8800gts, 9800gtx and 9800gtx+ into gts 250 as well, free upgrade!!!

 

All I want to say is that nVidia has something... I just know it...

there has GOT TO BE something...

If the 300 series arent successful then I will BET that the 400 series will be the new reincarnation of the 8XXX series which just BLEW US AWAY



But if I were to buy a laptop right now... ATI all the way...

Desktop... most likely nVidia, but mainly price dependent

 

"there has GOT TO BE something..." is not really contributing much considering NVidia's GPU roadmap is pretty well known and they have nothing coming out for a long time.

 

Well who says their GT200 series is bad? Not at all these are on par with the ATI high end GPU´s and I hardly believe they would screw up any 300 series. And their GTX 295 is the current king.

Their 8800GTX and Ultra has been some of the best GPU´s to be released, GT200 feels like the right way for them. All this Nvidia bashing is so amusing and getting tired by now. Yes they rename GPU´s but wait until the real benchmarks is out and with correct drivers before saying anything.

I went from a 8800GTX to a GTX 260. I skipped the whole G92 lineup except in my laptop of course and jumped directly onto the GTX 260. I will keep this GPU for probably 2-3 years from now. My 8800GTX overclocked lasted me 3 years and is even fast by today standards.

I had ATI before a long time ago. But was getting tired by the bad support of drivers that is still evident. Nvidia on the other hand releases drivers like crazy. First I thought they can´t be for real with all these beta drivers but yes they are there. They have very good support for their GPU´s and I like that.

However I am very keen to see some real benchmarks of the 4870 Mobile and very glad that ATI is finally pushing their way into the highend mobile market.

 

Ati releases updated drivers every month. In fact, any time someone says ATI drivers or support are bad I question when the last time they used an ATI product was. I have never felt that way about any ATI card I've owned since the 9600XT.

However, I have felt that way when I was trying to play FFXI on an nVidia card and it took 5-6 months to correct an issue that caused me to get 10-12 FPS at best.

Granted, that was a while ago also. Point is, ATI service and support is fine.

 

no one said gt 200 is bad, they are very good, and i think gtx285 is the best single gpu card on the market. it's just people getting sick of the continued expansion of the g92 family and are eager to see some new stuff from nvidia.

 

It's difficult to say any GPU is current king as the 4870X2 outperforms it in half the games, while the GTX 295 wins in the others. The high end nVidia parts are on par for performance, better for power consumption, but worse for price compared to ATI's current high end.

 

As far as GT200 goes:

4870 X2 = GTX 295

GTX 285 is unchallenged (4890 perhaps)

4870 = GTX 260

Nobody has ever claimed GT200 is bad.

 

The MSI GTX 260 OC I bought was pretty cheap I must say. Sure I could have bought an ATI 4870 a little cheaper. But the performance seems up and down with that GPU. Then I mean I want consistent performance in all games and the Nvidia Way it´s meant to be played is in favor of Nvidia if you get what I mean.

Also I have read many problems with the 4870 GPU´s on a swedish forum called Sweclockers. I was leaning towards an ATI 4870 but decided to buy the GTX 260 overclocked instead.

 

Does the GTX 285 have the same performance hit at high resolutions with lots of AA enabled like its lesser brethren?

 

Considering it's just an OCed die shrunk GTX 280, I'd say yes.

 

Far less than the G92 cards, but RV770 still handles AA/Resolutions better than the GT200 series.

 

Just a really stupid question, so as of right now ati mobile cards 4800 series are destroying the new gt200 series mobile cards from nvidia?

 

Do the high-end Radeon cards take any performance hit at all from AA from 4x onwards in comparison?

 

It depends on the game. In Crysis it'll be a hit for any card. I run every other game though with 8xAA and it's not much of a drop at all.

 

nVidia has no GT200 cards for mobile yet, they're all still G92b.

 

All other things being equal, would it be wrong to say that the current crop of Nvidia mobile chipsets (with the exception of its top-end card) just can't handle AA and high resolutions as well as their direct ATi competitors?

 

It would not be wrong to say that -- ATI's cards do handle higher resolutions and AA better.

 

i'm new to this,
why is 40nm better?

 

smaller chips = less space required for a given layout, less power draw = less heat output

 

what makes the smaller 4860 faster than the larger 4850?

 

die size means nothing.
the hd4860 has higher clock speeds, a little more bandwidth but 160 less stream processors. it's faster by a small amount.

 

i just realized the hd4860 die is only about 25% bigger than the g86 core AKA 8400m/8600m gs.
my computer is aging rapidly!

 

Yap, as tianxia said, its got much higher core clock than 4850(650mhz vs 500mhz). The performance of these 4 series Ati chips are hugely dependent on the core clock.

So while 4860 is faster by default, 4850 will be better once OC'ed; as its got more stream processors, as well as headroom for overclocking. What you want ideally is die-shrinked 40nm mobility 4850...

 

The reduced power and heat from the die-shrink is part of what allows it to have higher core and memory clock speeds.

 

yeah, i would forget about the 4870x2 and look to the new gpu from ati...exact date unknown
quoted from here
From AMD internal sources, we know that there is an ATi Radeon HD4970 GPU as a single variant will. A HD4950 would also, with a RV790Pro, conceivable. The information is interesting, however, the name of the new dual-GPU graphics card. These statements should be confidential, according to the name ATi Radeon HD4995 X2 receive based on the recently published multi-GPU graphics card Nvidia GeForce GTX295 which the performance crown back into the house of the manufacturer sought.

 

Yeah it´s nice to see both Nvidia and ATI is close together performance wise, this means cheaper GPU´s as it is now

 

meh, that 4995x2 or whatever two RV790 gpus on one PCB will be called is be pointless. The 4870x2 is already doing a good enough job against its competition. If they do go along with this, best thing that could happen is a price drop for the high end GTX cards.

 

well..it was, before the 285 and 295 came out.
now those cards are out..not doing so hot.

 

Has Nvidia been sitting on its for all these years, well it looks like it got too fat.

 

i just want to see the 4800m what ever card in full action against the gtx200m whatever card. so when it comes to buying, i will know what way to go. and people throwing around numbers means nothing if it's not in the right users hands to bring out these cards to begin with.... the 4800 pulled a 20k in 3dmark. fantastic! but what about the other test . he's a pro user of vantage as well. still no test shown.. . i can understand not running games right now..cool. could have run at least one test since he competed in that category for asus in desktop cards. that would give us a great idea how they should operate....still waiting on him to answer striker....

 

nah, its doing fine. Look up more reviews and consider the price point compared to the two other cards you mentioned.

Edit: since I gotta go to bed early, I'll beat you to the punch. You're probably going to show me a review that shows the GTX 295 beating the 4870x2 or one result where even the GTX 285 beats it as well. Then I'm probably going to show you another review that suggests otherwise. This is going to go on and on...and on...

But before it does, my point is not solely about competing based on performance. The GTX 295 I think is a better card because the settings where it performs better than the 4870x2 are more practical; not many people are going to play at 2560x1600 compared to say 1920x1200 or 1680x1050. However, it's still around $100 more than a 4870x2. Even though the GTX 295 performs better than the 4870x2 at mainstream settings, the difference in performance isn't much to justify that $100 difference. If anything, the GTX 285 is more of a threat to the 4870x2 due to the pricing, and even though it doesn't perform as well as the 4870x2 in most cases, the GTX 285 is one GPU, while the 4870x2 is a two GPU solution. Thus, you don't have to deal with scaling, stuttering and all sorts of problems that may plague the upper two cards (or upper three with the 4850x2).

 

my price point is a bit higher than yours..
and looked up a tone of reviews and benchmarks and gaming benchmarks and gaming videos on youtube as well.

nah, we're good ichime
i know what cha mean. not posting any more reviews.

me, im out for the best over all card. at this point it's the 9800m gtx till proven differently. kind of why im waiting on someone to get a w90 with a qx9300 and run it through the ringer.(this is why i say my price point is a bit higher than yours) so when im get ready to get my next laptop. ill know exactly which way to go....
also, they said the whitebook was better, but we all know how that played out...
but within the next few weeks, we should have some real good numbers coming off these rv770. something for the gtx280m to think about.

 

Nvidia's 40nm GPUs reportedly coming in late Q2

 

That is excellent news I might hold out a little longer to see whether ATI or nvidia release any 9650M GT mxm 2 thrashing cards

 

Only one mobile card is listed so far the "high-end" GT215....but who knows how that fits in with nVidia's model numbering scheme.

 

was a bit of a rocky start.... but seems the gtx280m is going to pull on ahead of the competition..and that's without over clocking the system.... gpu score on a single card (over clocked card)is running at 6118 right now while the 4850 is at 5900 and i forget where the 4870 single card is sitting...

 

that 4870 from asus isn't a real 4870 don't forget. it has ddr3 and it is soppose to have gddr5. so ati can still come back if the clocks are going to be as low as they are now.

 

Well, for starters, johnksss apparently has to update his info regarding the ATi cards as the new number for an OC'd 4850 is 6472 and an unofficial run of 6827 for a single overclocked Mobility 4870.

But good thing this thead was resurrected as there is an update relevant to the thread's topic:

http://www.techpowerup.com/91792/NVIDIA_Outsources_40_nm_to_Foundry_Partners_in_Q2.html

If they speed things up, it may be possible to see a 40nm variant of the gt200 cards in mobile form some time soon in 2009. GTX 275M and GTX 285M anyone? (speculation of course, lol)

 

Heh I resurrected this thread by posting a link to the new 40-nm news.

 

haha, touche. Only if I was on break earlier

 

nvidia still hasn't caught ATI ATI haters suck that

 

I honestly believe that Nvidia was basing their performance gains over the Mobility 4870 using the 4850+ in the W90.... which I'll admit Nvidia is sorta justified in using as a reference point since it's the only Mobility 4870 card out.

The article is referring to the mobile GT 215 as "high-end" instead of enthusiast so I'll speculate (everyone's favorite word) that it'll fill the new 9700M/9800 GTS range and is aimed at the Mobility 4860. We'll see but I wouldn't be surprised if the Mobility 4860 ends up being the direct competition for the GTX 280M the way things are shaping up.


ATI is clearly ahead of the game though with their RV740 GPU using only a 128-bit memory bus...when ATI adds double that bus to a 40-nm die they're going to have to start using numbers higher than 4870.

 

im just waiting

 

here is my single GPU run with a baby overclock of 580/880 .

 

wow, had to edit that last post...

nice dammn score quad!

if they are doing that well in single card mode, what is going on in dual card mode????

thanks, updated

 

Well this was an interesting thread to read. Glad it got rezd or else I would of never seen it!! ahh