New Trend in RTS?

So I've recently started playing Supreme Command and Sins of a Solar Empire (both by Stardock), and both games feel really really sluggish.

I'm not talking about game speed or computer/gpu lag (because mine doesn't on either), but unit movement. Both remind me of playing old C&C games where the units take 30 seconds to respond and still don't go where you tell them.

whenever I try to put a squad in formation on SupCom they take 5 minutes to form up, and then after I give them an action they break the formation and go do there own thing, at a slow pace. Air units are almost as bad, and take 30 seconds to turn around.

Sins of a Solar Empire isn't quite as bad for the formation movements, and groups actually tend to stick together. But when it comes to fighting everything moves so slow, and units have to make almost an entire loop around planets before they'll turn 180 degrees.

This makes micro completely obsolete and non-existent. I just hope this isn't a trend for all RTS in the future, or I'll only be sticking to Blizzard titles from now on (I love unit reaction in StarCraft, but even WarCraft 3 the micro's a little weak).

 

Yeah i noticed that alittle in SoaSE but to be honest im guessing thats space battles for you.....the bigger ships take much longer to turn and respond, but i like it because im guessing it wouldnt be easy to move a monster like that around, the smaller ships are much more responsive.....
It make you really think about every engagement before committing your self to the fight...where and when becomes as important as numbers.....i like it.....would like it more if it had a storyline......

 

I'll agree that it's not too bad in SoaSE and that it makes sense there. It's also easier to manage because there's nothing to get in the way, since it's open space. Another problem that was bugging me though, is that it treats space like it's 2d. Space is a 3d environment with no real up or down. I don't see why smaller frigates and fighter squads cant just invert themselves for a quick turn around...

It's atrocious in SupCom though, and has made the game almost unplayable. It feels like they tried to fit too many different types of fighting into one map. The Navy's always crowded and will almost always bottleneck at one point, ground forces tend to follow eachother in a line even if you give them a different command, and all 3 (land, sea, air) are ridiculously unresponsive. This makes games that should take an hour to beat, take 3-4. Defenses in the game also seem to be overpowered, but that's a different issue.

Overall I'm not enjoying the campaign in SupCom due to the weak unit mechanics, but the single player in SoaSE is rather fun even though it completely lacks a story.

 

This sounds like a pathfinding game engine issue, which most RTS games have or have had.

And WC3 micro a little weak? WC3 matches are essentially pure micro battles, as WC3 lacks the macro side that SC prides itself on.

 

SC and SoaSE are grand strategy games. Personally, I love the way both of them play. If you want small unit tactics and or highly responsive units, you should probably be playing something else. I don't mean to sound mean, they just aren't desined to play that way. Look at games like Company of Heroes or (likely) Starcraft 2 if you want to see the other end of the spectrum. RTSes aren't really changing, they are just speciating, if you will. What does seem to be dying though is the turn based strategy game. It is being replaced by the grand RTS.

 

By weak micro in WC3 I meant purely unit response, not battle scale. Units in StarCraft react slightly faster due to their mechanics than those in WC3. But yes, you are right that WC3 is designed around small based micro battles.

I am definitely looking forward to StarCraft 2, been waiting 14 years. I played Company of Heroes as well, and liked to the way it played, but for some reason I was never as good at it compared to other games, so I eventually gave up on it. Plus games that take place in revolutionary-modern times don't interest me. I prefer medieval or futuristic games.

 

Then play DoW. You can tell it is the same game engine as CoH, they just tweaked it for CoH. DoW's fun too. Not too sure about DoWII, but will withhold judgement till I play it. I'm getting sick of the whole "resource collection and base building is teh suck!!!1" design philosphy that is taking hold across the industry these days.

 

I agree on the idea. I have DOW1 and its first two expansions. Quite an addicting good game and less complex (in a sense) than CoH, which I have only played the demo.

 

I cannot wait for sc2 either!!!!!! ive been LANing with friends playing starcraft like old days out here. lol its pretty intense.

 

To me they seem to be 'bulking up' units, making it feel like less of a 'war' and more of a small battle. I'm thinking of Red Alert 3 here, where you used maybe 10-15 units in a battle. Whereas you look back to Red Alert 2, or even Command and Conquer 3, and you had hundreds of units at the same time. I miss large scale battles =-(

 

good old red alert 1 <3

 

If you want your units in SupCom to move in formation use ctrl + right mouse at the destination. I don't think there's anything to be done for the slow movement of units, but maybe some of the commands on this page will be satisfactory http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Controls,_brief_description

 

Yes...I know this. What I said earlier was that even after putting them into a formation (which would take Forever for them to move into) after a move/attack command was given they'd just break the formation and do whatever they wanted.

 

Supreme Commander was definitely not meant to be a tactical game. Sure there's a lot of quotes from Chris Taylor on the grand strategy aspect...

I don't see that being a problem for RTS, because there are certainly a lot of games for more micromanagement... Starcraft 2, Dawn of War 2...

 

There's quite a bit of strategy when playing online.

 

Sounds to me what you need to play is the homeworld series, i highly recommend homeworld catacylsm.

I know what you mean though, build the mobile fortress on supreme commander and send it across the map to the enemy base, in the mean time pop downstairs, do the pots, make a cuppa and walk the dog before its even half way their.

 

Ah sorry, guess I misinterpreted your description. Ctrl rc and ctrl alt rc works for me unless I've got units selected that are far enough from each other that they move closer to each other and either idle or finally get in formation and then move.

 

Dawn of War 2 multiplayer, after this 'There Is Only War' update, is going to be incredible.

 

Thats what I love about SC, the grand epic scale of the game. I love how many units each side can have, and the sheer scale of some of the maps available. I've never been a fan of the micro-managing RTS games. Too me, having 15 units doing battle just isn't war.

With SC you do lose alot of emotional attachment with your units. You have so many, and your losses mount so quick that no attachment really happens. This was different in COH. Btw I did really enjoy COH, DOW1 was ok, DOW2 was a waste of money.

You get used to how long your units take to form up or move somewhere. Remember the terrain can have an effect as well. Its just something that you'll eventually get used too. SC single player was average, SC:FA single player was short but ok. The multiplayer is where this game truly shines. Incredible, epic, beautiful.

 

Ah, well the problem is that I don't get much time to game, maybe 1-2 hours a day at most...so when it takes me a week to beat 1 missions it becomes more like work than fun, especially with no "hero" or units that level up.

I still think Starcraft did it perfect though. You could still have 100 units on the battle field fighting, but you could also micromanage them. The damage/hp balance was also better imo. It took time to kill things, but not too much time. Warcraft 3 seems to take forever for things to die, and SupCom things seems do die in 1/2 a second.

But anyways, I'm still on my 1st "mission" for SoaSE but I'm really enjoying it. I think I'm about 10 hours in, and I've got 2x level 10 Capital ships(whom I've gotten pretty attached to). Started with 7cpus, now it's down to 5. Unfortunately 4 of them don't like me and I'm constantly on the defensive, but I'm still holding the most planets. The defenses aren't very good though (playing TEC) so I'm having to spread my ships pretty thin.

 

Do you have Entrenchment? If not, you should get it.

 

for SoaSE? Not yet, I don't have a personal internet connection. I'll definitely D/L it when I get a chance though.