New details regarding upcoming GTX 780M

If its true,lets cross fingers to be compatible with clevo HM laptops

 

The 2013 Nvidia Lineup: GTX780 is Titan LE, GTX770 is GTX680, GTX760Ti is GTX670? - Bright Side Of News*

GTX780 is Titan LE, GTX770 is GTX680, GTX760Ti is GTX670!!!

May be the 780M will feature Turbo boost 2.0 but will finally have the full GTX670 performance? 10% over 680MX is considered enough for this gen architecture, IMHO

 

well, lets put it like this: unlocked and OCed 680M is able to reach stock gtx670 speeds, so nextgen 780M unlocked and OCed could reach gtx770 = gtx680 stock?

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I would hope so. We need all the power we can get. Especially with metro last light and the whole plethora of unreal engine 4 games coming our way

 

I was just about to purchase a laptop with a gtx 680m sli after doing tons of research on various graphics cards. Do you guys think i should wait and get a 780m or will the 780m's performance be on par with 680m sli. Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

I can guarantee you one thing, 780m will not be on par with 680m SLI. However, it will likely be 15-20% faster. At this point in time unless you absolutely need a laptop now, I'd wait the couple more months and check your options. If nothing else the 680m machines should be cheaper by then too.

 

I really wanted to buy it now because i have already been shopping around for months. Will it really be 15-20% faster. I thought 2 x 680m would at least equal if not better than a 780m?

 

Even though we dont have an exact specification, two 680m's will beat a SINGLE 780m, by a good amount.

 

You and I, both!

 

I'd say it's worth it to wait for more news on the 780M, just to see if the ridiculously strong GK110 spec rumor ends up true.

I'll bet it ends up fake, but just in case....

 

Yes, I must have misunderstood you. 680m SLI will easily defeat a single 780m, by a large margin.

 

Thanks for your advice, Think i will go ahead and buy the 680m SLI now then and can always upgrade to maxwell architecture when it is released.

 

I bring more news.

Its GTX 780M ran on a MSI GT70. It also have the upcoming Haswell CPU. A chinese guy tested it on Starcraft 2 (...). I can`t help but reveal a tiny detail which will be super important about Haswell: All SATA interfaces is now SATA3. MSI have used this opportunity to build a better RAID0 card. Previous version in GT70 was called "Super RAID", it was a card where you put 2 mSATA SSDs and Raid0 them, and you got almost up to 1000MB/s, it looks like this. That card used all SATA3 connections, since Sandy+Ivy Bridge had only 2 SATA3, rest was SATA2. Now MSI introduce "Super RAID 2", it is just like the previous card, only with THREE mSATA SSDs in Raid0. According to the tester, it will reach up to 1500MB/s in Read!!!

Since this is Starcraft 2 on Ultra 1080p and I haven`t played that game before, perhaps someone who have, tell us what FPS you get in it. Both when you start the map, with many working units, while having a fight with 400 units. That would help us to figure out where GTX 780M stand. Thank you.

Hardware setup of the upcoming GT70.


"Simple Hardware test"


Very High Quality/Ultra Settings 1080p.


The first stage in the game. 129FPS


71 FPS while building


Duel with 400 people... 35FPS. Must be really demanding for the hardware


In the middle of the fight.


Victorious!


Source: MSI next generation of the king, the the Haswell platform for GT70 Starcraft 2 run sub-~ ~ _ MSI G Series

 

News #2:
Looks like Asus might get GTX 780M too. Its listed in their drivers.

Asus Mobile driver for Win8 reveals GTX 780M
v311.27 Windows 8 64bit | ASUS Mobile - 31x Series GeForce Driver release - LaptopVideo2Go Forums


Rumor #1:
GTX 780M 3DMark Vantage Score: 29000, 3DMark11 Performance score: P9000 (just below). I don`t remember where I found it, sorry.

 

that would be upgrade-worthy indeed 16% faster than my 7970M OCed to the max

 

I just played around with numbers.

GTX 680M specs:
1344 cores @ 719MHz, GDDR5 @ 256Bit @ 900MHz
3DMark11 score: P6400
3DMark Vantage: 21163

GTX 780M rumored specs:
2122 cores @ 513 - 620MHz. GDDR5 @ 320Bit @ 1250MHz
3DMark11 score: Just below P9000
3DMark Vantage: 29000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GTX 680M: 1344 cores * 719MHz = 966366
GTX 780M: 2122 cores * 620MHz = 1315640

1315640/966366 = 1.3614 = +36.14%

Does the specs fit with the 3DMark score?
P6400 * 1.3614 = P8714

Does it fit with the 3DMark Vantage score?
21163 * 1.3614 = 28782

Yes it does. With both. Very interesting.

 

780m with 1536 Cores!! MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!

 

P9000 would be a 50% increase, I really doubt that.

 

Man the 780M gets more powerful with every leak. Definitely seeming implausible now.

Remember when we just hoped it'd be a full memory speed 680MX? Seems like so long ago...

 

I would say that with 90% certainty. We do not know if they will be MXM IIIb compliant or not. It may or may not be.

 

Not according to 3DMark.com http://i.imgur.com/K5l5cVk.jpg
I haven`t tested mine for a good while now so I don`t know. Maybe the score have increased with new drivers? If not, that P9000 score is with a Haswell CPU that will boost up the total 3DMark P-score.

LOL, just me dreaming of course. And getting people exited. With the rumored specs it seems a little plausible too. Also TDP wise since its a GK110.
GTX Titan (GK110) have 75% more cores than GTX 680 (GK104) but only saw 28% increase in TDP. Rumored GTX 780M have 58% more cores than GTX 680M.

 

Haswell wont be much faster than the current CPUs so that's a 10% increase in CPU score adding maybe 100-200 points.

Since the desktop is not getting a larger chip apart from maybe a cut down titan, do you really think they are putting a titan on a mobile card.....

No. I'm going to have to kill that rumour right now.

We are still playing with GK110, 104, 106 and 107 this time. GK110 is simply off the cards (I don't think the package is compatible with MXM mounting posts the core is so huge).

Here is the 480M:



Die size: 529mm^2

Now look at the package size of titan with a 10% larger die:

http://www.ngohq.com/attachments/news/4137d1361421131-nvidia-launches-geforce-gtx-titan-2.jpg

The best case is a 680MX but I suspect a fully enabled GK104 core with slow memory.

 

Its not just any CPU, its 4900MQ. 3.8GHz, 4.2GHz if you add that 10% architecture gain. Faster than all current Ivy CPUs.

Anyways, its a cut down Tesla K20. 4SMX removed, down to 11SMX.
But if its a cut down GK110, it will be the first time Nvidia is out with a 550mm^2 GPU. 580M was 332mm^2. Would that be something thats impossible to put in a notebook?

 

Let's put it this way, to score 9000 points in my machine took my core at 1160mhz, memory at 2.6ghz and my 3940XM at 4.3ghz.

System power consumption was around 230-240 watts. Mostly in the GPU there, so you are saying that the 780M will have a 140W TDP......

 

No because its a very different chip than our 680M. Just like 7870 is much more power efficient than 7970.
I already posted the TDP difference earlier in this thread.

What physic score do you get with your 3940XM @4.3GHz?
EDIT: Found it myself.
3940XM @ 4.3GHz = 9714 in Physic score
3610QM @ Stock = 8192

Not exactly 100-200 points you see

 

Except it's the other way round, the titan gets all the extra bulk that the 7870 sheds over the 7970 to gain that efficiency.

I get a bit over 10,000 CPU score.

You are also asking to fit on more memory chips, heavier duty power circuitry and a larger core on an MXM-B board :/

A 680MX style card with turbo boost would be more power efficient.

 

GK110 is much more efficient than GK104. Atleast TDP wise.

2688 * 867 = 2330467
250W
2330467/250 = 9321/W

1536 * 1059 = 1626624
195W
1626624/195 = 8341/W

 

Really at lower voltages and clocks? Have you done an accurate power/performance curve analysis on a titan? Typically disabling an SMX lowers performance FAR more than power consumption.

Also your calculations relied on the 100% CPU bound vantage test..... which wont scale to 3dmark 11.

With the CPU skewed results I would predict around 7500 3dmark 11 scores from the vantage score you posted.

 

We don`t know what PSU they will deliver with the 780M Meaker. The important factor is TDP where the GK110 is more efficient than the GK104. As long as they nail that down to a decent level there is always a PSU available for it.

I don`t even know if they could put a 530mm^2 GPU inside a notebook. So that remains to be seen. I guess we will have to wait and see
P7500 on a GTX 680MX is also a candidate too yes. Totally agree. I`m just hoping for the best

 

Actually they have done it before. GTX 480M @ 529mm^2
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 480M | techPowerUp GPU Database

EDIT: You posted that earlier I see. Stop editing posts

 

A 320bit GDDR5 would leave you even less room.

We know the 680MX is using pretty much all its TDP on the memory (around 20W of it).

You are adding another 20% chips, thats around a 130-135W, so your titan core now has to use 20W less than the GK104 while out performing it....

 

551 mm^2 for the titan AND the package is bigger.



To that add over a 10% die size increase (and actually more to the package) another 2 memory chips and even more power circuitry.

Or are we getting MXM type C

 

I still highly doubt the 100W data on the 680M is correct. It is much cooler than 580M and it was a 100W. That TDP data isn`t even from Nvidia or any of the OEMs, but pure rough calculations by the sites (notebookcheck and TPU) based on cores and clock. They don`t care about architecture change at all. Or reduced voltage from the desktop counterparts

But lets assume it is. As I showed earlier, GK110 is 12% more TDP efficient than GK104. 100W would be down to 88W.
I still doubt we get a GK110 too, but atleast I`m open for the possibility. Lets just wait and see ok?

 

Right we are at 108W and we are only matching the GTX680M (You used the efficiency on power savings rather than performance increase), now we have to get this 30-40% performance gain somewhere.

So now we are looking at a 140-150W TDP card lol.

 

How on earth did you come to that conclusion? That performance gain doesn`t involve higher TDP like that. Its baked in to the efficiency of the chip.
75% more cores saw 28% higher TDP on the GK110. If the TDP is already lower than 100W, we will hardly surpass that 100W limit (which isn`t even a limit for MXM cards)

 

Say your chip is 10% more efficient than mine.

You can clock your chip 10% faster than mine and use the same power or you can clock it the same and get a 10% reduction in power.

You do not get to double dip and get 10% faster AND use 10% less power that's double dipping and would require a chip 21% more efficient than mine.

 

So what you`re saying is that GTX 780M can only be 12% better by using GK110 rather than GK104 @100W? I can see the logic in that.

@ 100W it is 12% faster.
@ 110W it is 23.2% faster
@ 120W it is 34.4% (rumored performance)

I still think the 100W TDP is wrong, and it is around 80W in reality. Temperature measurements have shown its lower than 580M (100W), so if its 80W, we are looking at a 100W 780M.

 

That or the core is designed to spread the heat across it the die more evenly, my power measurements show it's certainly drawing enough.

But you have not answered my question, where do you intend to put the extra 2 memory chips in my picture above? Here?



Where do you intend to move that power circuitry? How are you going to deal with the tracing nightmare that presents?

Also I have not even scratched the ROP situation yet.

680 = 32 rops
titan LE = 40 rops

At its maximum clock it only about matches the ROPS of the GK104 at 750mhz, and the GK104 is notorious for being ROP bound performance wise.

 

I`ll leave that to the engineers at Nvidia. My suggestion is to do a little preview of Volta
You might be right that we are still stuck with GK104., I have always believe that. GK110 sounds a little good to be true anyways. I remain optimistic though.

 

So the 780M will be launched 3 years from now, ah well then those figures seem a little weak

Lets put it this way, be VERY skeptical of your friend until he shows you some VERY strong evidence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence after all.

Who knows maybe Nvidia will pull a pentium M on us, but this person is going to have to see to believe in this case.

If it's true it would be a true marvel of engineering and I would get one even if did cost as much as a desktop titan

In the mean time I would certainly avoid spreading this as accurate information.

 

The 780m will be GK114. End of story.

 

Swear on page 30 I explained why it's pretty impossible unless there's some amazing level of tech nVidia's been keeping from us this whole time O_O. Well at least knowing that it's gonna be a ~10% boost at maximum makes me feel better about buying SLI 680Ms in my next machine if I get the means to do it before these machines are revealed/planned to come out etc. (aka around May or so). 10% increase gets my 3 weeks or under recommendation. If you need one and it's going to be out within 21 days or under, wait. If you don't need one but want one sometime soon, a few months aren't anything bad.

 

How the heck do you guys know so much .....brother meaker ... teach me .... half of this stuff goes over my head for now but before the 880m comes out in about a year or more. ....I wanna be able to understand gpuzzz more lol

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papa meaker and his centuries of computer hardware experience

 

Yup. We can all learn a thing or two from him.

 

I said preview (like thats gonna happen lol). Nobody is spreading it as accurate information, its been said many times its just a rumor. Since they seem to keep going with GK110 in all sorts of variations even for the upcoming GTX 780, I thought there might be a slight chance they do the same for mobile GPUs too. I`d certainly welcome it although I remain sceptical

GTX 680MX wouldn`t be too bad I guess. It saw almost 30% more FPS in games over the 680M. That was with a desktop CPU so god knows how much that skewed the games.

 

Is this true that the performance increase will only be 10% if so i will buy 680m sli now instead of waiting for 780m

 

Read the first post. 780M scored 36% more in 3DMark Vantage than GTX 680M. It was the total score, so one have to look at how much the CPUs contribute too.
Its gonna atleast be 20% faster. That s my projection.

 

Nonsense, you should know that Vantage is totally CPU bound, and besides... it's a DX10 benchmark which doesn't really have any relevance anymore.
If the 780m is going to be the same hardware as the 680mx it will be interesting due to the additional shaders, but if it's going to be a 680m with a higher clock... oh well, we're already running the 680m at 1000MHz easily, some people even at stock voltage. In this case the 780m won't be interesting at all.

 

Did I say anything else? I said I didn`t know how much the CPU contributed to that score. Vantage is still used both in OC competitions and in reviews as far as I know, so while its DX10 its still a tool used to compare different GPUs.

There are already benchmarks (games) of 680MX vs the 680M in this thread where it showed over 30% performance vs the 680M. If you think it will be less than that you are welcome to come with your predictions. I tried to deduct the CPU advantage in the first post to make it more GPU vs GPU. Since my predictions was based on 10% IPC gain, and it looks like 8%, I`m sticking with atleast +20%.