No ATI Mobile GPU support for Vista???

Well, I went to download the latest Catalyst drivers for my X1600...and was greeted to a redirect to this page:

http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=26978

Specifically, this section:

What's going on here? I just downloaded 7.2 from them a few weeks ago...

 

That's weird but 7.2 is working well for me on Vista.

 

That is indeed odd, I had no issues getting the 7.3's off them a couple of weeks ago.

 

Some manufacturer pressured ATI/AMD to do this because of support. Since Vista automaticly updates the drivers and so most people with vista started using the ATI drivers which causes some problems with the support hotlines since they dont know anything about the ATI drivers. The manufacturer's drivers often suck in performace but are more compedible so they cause less problems.

 

Ya, the OEMs don't like popeople using drivers they don't support.

To avoid the anti-leech, You can go back to the ATI Site, click Download Drivers then paste this into the top bar http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/vista32/previous/common/common-cat72-vista32.html

And pick them up. 7.2 is the last common Vista driver with Mobility and Desktop support in the same release (you can also change where it says 72 to 73 to get the 7.3 drivers...but those are Desktop only). Hopefully soon they'll get some system for users from non-supported manufacturers to get the drivers. Though so far I think everyone with Vista compatible ATI graphics cards has been getting something for the release, some hopefully won't mind if we have the latest... Don't want to have to use intermediaries like Omega and others again, but it may be the only way to go with Vista for awhile.

But for me I'll stick with XP, thank you very much

Cat

 

wow that is retarded. What do they expect toshiba or dell to make their own catalyst drivers?

all notebook companies do is post ati's drivers. So users call in to the notebook company with driver problems and their solution is to not offer support for their products at all.... makes sense.

 

They will never get the chance to make such things.
Remember, GPU's internal instructions are trade secrets.That's the reason you cannot dig deeper than OpenGL and DirectX (except some general instructions the rest are unknown).
My Guess is nVidia and ATI give some raw drivers to the OEM's and they get to fill several .inf files.

 

me thinks ATi/AMD is playing it safe due to nVidia stating their GPU totally supported vista and it didnt and now theres a class action lawsuit against them lol

 

? ATi had Microsoft certified drivers for Vista before the day it was released and it releases new ones every month. nVidia though is crud and only had beta drivers last month - not sure if anything's changed even now

ATi makes a web post driver itself from it's website with everything enabled. For the OEMS though ATi makes the drivers, puts in the functions the OEMs want to support, takes out the ones they don't like or that their systems don't run well with and then passes it on to the OEM. The OEM tests it and then posts it. So the OEM doesn't like it when someone goes and gets a driver they've never tested and uses it on their system, then comes and complains that some function that they don't want to support (and had removed) doesn't work.

It's too bad, but if ATi doesn't do it this way the OEMs get mad... . Hopefully they will setup a system like they have in XP that we can get around and download direct and continue to get the full package with all the features

Cat

P.S. Don't think it's just ATi, nVidia is even worse for this, they don't even release any mobile drivers for anyone on their site and you always have to go through intermediaries and wait for them to hack up the desktop drivers and post them.

 

This is actually true - for Windows. In Linux, nVidia provides a single Forceware driver for all nVidia GPUs, including the mobile ones. On top of that, individual distribution vendors are allowed to edit and distribute custom versions of the drivers to their users. Ubuntu will even automatically update my drivers for me, and if they're found unstable by too many users, downgrade them (which I can obviously refuse if I so wish).

Also keep in mind that Microsoft holds the right disable or reduce the functionality of a company's drivers on Vista if there is a flaw found in them. This is even worse for companies like ATi and nVidia because if a specific part of the driver (say for instance the code for a Go 7300) is found to have a flaw or vulnerability in it, the entire Forceware driver would have it's official Microsoft signature revoked and an update would cause it to lose functionality; in other words, every nVidia user would feel the consequences until nVidia fixed the problem. I don't really blame ATi and nVidia for doing this because by offloading this to the OEMs they may be sidestepping that land mine and Microsoft would only affect an OEMs particular driver pack. Of course you can't do this with desktops because too many desktops (especially those with dedicated GPUs) are custom-built and don't really have an OEM, but don't be surprised if you start seeing them forcing the GPU OEMs (like Sapphire, Asus, etc) to start carrying their own drivers too.

 

Thanks for bringing this up, night. I'll add this to the driver guide right now.

Let's hope that Omega drivers come to Vista; the latest ones he has produced for XP are 7.1.

We may be relying more on the DriverHeaven.net Mobility Mod Tool.

 

I for one this is really dumb on ATIs part. If they aren't going to release mobile drivers, I'll NEVER get driver updates. HP business driver support's view is 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' and they never seem to think drivers are broke.

Looks like my next laptop might be nVidia if they continue to release mobile drivers. ATI's effectively saying they don't support their own products with this announcement.

 

Agreed, but it isn't ATI's fault.

Don't like nVidia at all - they don't even have downloads for XP on their site anymore - not if they have Vista. Even the GeForce 6 & 7, which is over a year old now, doesn't have any XP drivers on their site (....if their systems can run Vista, then why the heck haven't they installed it so we don't have to think about supporting anything but the latest?, thinks they...). Probably because they couldn't pass testing on the newer versions because of their Vista changes and they don't even offer the last download that did work for users. The newest Go drivers they have for download on their site is from July 5 2006. That's 10 months ago. And it's just XP because they still don't have official Vista mobile drivers yet.

http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/ - Hacked nVidia laptop drivers
http://www.omegadrivers.com - Hacked ATI and nVidia drivers

ATI will probably start posting mobile drivers again, once they get that OEM system in place - like w/XP. nVidia...based on everything I've ever experienced with them (my only dead GPU) and seen and read - it's not the one for me.

Cat

 

http://www.techpowerup.com/ - news post

course theres still none for notebooks with vista but yea!

 

ATI's current lack of mobile support is really turning me off to ATI in the future...

 

It's too bad, but please read my response to your last post on this in http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=116536 night_2004

Cat

 

I have...and I'm still trying to find a way to get the desktop drivers to work.

I just wish they'd be official about this an release them anyway. More users equals more data, which means better fixes in the future.

 

still no support for the mrx1900 or the x1700 for that matter...just wondering when they will support it...

 

has anyone seen this?

"Currently AMD does not provide any driver support for Mobility Radeon™ products. All driver and technical support for Mobility Radeon™ products is provided by the original laptop or notebook manufacturer. The drivers that are available for download at ati.amd.com are for desktop products only"

Linky

aplies to Vista so far

 

Ya, we saw it. It used to apply to XP as well until they put in the detection system, so ATI can say it is blocking users officially form getting it who have OEM support, while still unofficially letting all of us get the latest stuff.

7.2 includes mobile X1700 support in the inf files, it was a typo that it didn't say it officially - but if you take a look at the file it's there and it does work. Not sure about the mobility X1900 tho - I heard that's only in Europe as MXM?

Cat

 

I would suspect this move by ATI/AMD had more to do with money than anything. I've gotten the impression that everyone (not just Microsoft) sees Vista as a major cash cow and wants their piece of the pie. For example, after Vista came out many manufacturers rushed to get their so-called "Vista Update Packages" ready to offer for sale (not freely available for download, but for sale... those bastards.) I myself, having an Acer laptop, was greeted by an Acer-provided download page that would either not load entirely, or offer driver downloads at a whopping 3-6kb per second. I am sure nothing pisses these money hungry OEMs more than to have a company like ATI/AMD or Nvidia offer reference drivers for free... since on many laptops... is the primary reason for needing the update CD in the first place. On my laptop, for example, Vista detected everything except my orbicam.

So understandably... the OEMs threw a fit.

 

May 2, 2007
Mr. Hector Ruiz
Chairman of the Board & CEO, AMD Corporation
One AMD Place
Sunnyvale, CA 94085

Re: AMD/ATI 32-Bit Radeon Driver

Dear Mr. Ruiz,
I have been a long and satisfied AMD/ATI customer. (dating back to the "EGA Wonder", then the IBM ThinkPad 755, through today's Thinkpad X31's)
The purpose of this note is to ask for your help. I am running Microsoft's Vista/Ultimate operating system on my companies IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad x31s (26734-U7), utilizing the ATI Mobility Radeon AGP (0x4C59) processor. Because of repeatedly errors in the AMD/ATI 32-bit drivers, I have been unable to complete my companies migration of our 32 Thinkpad x31's to Microsoft Vista.
The Thinkpad is repeatedly crashing in module ati3duag.dll The crash can be traced back to the ATI 32-bit Video Driver (Version 6.14.10.6547) which supports the ThinkPad's ATI Mobility Radeon Video Processor (0x4C59). The error is reproducible. It occurs immediately when initializing applications such as the New York Times Reader.
The Standard VGA driver is not an option, and attempts to install the latest AMD/ATI drivers result in an application failure (hardwaredetect.dll) the Catalyst setup program.
I understand that AMD/ATI has no contractual relationship with me or contractual responsibility to address this problem.
However, the reason I am asking your assistance is:
1. Thousands of notebook customers are currently experiencing the same problem upgrading to Vista (all versions). A Google search of 'ati3duag.dll', 'ati2dual.dll', 'ati2mtag.sys' shows this.
2. ATI has publically stated that the Thinkpad X31 is Vista compatible. Currently, that is not true.
3. Microsoft's Vista Upgrade Advisor confirms that my ThinkPad X31 is Vista compatible, only stating the installed Video processor would not support the 'Aero' capability. The Microsoft Video advisor reported the same.(see attached)
4. Efforts to install an updated driver from AMD/ATI have failed. The AMD/ATI Catalyst setup program fails in the detecthardware.dll module. (attached) Although the chip sets are very similar across their product line, ATI does not appear to currently have a Vista compatible driver for this machine.
5. This issue affects ATI's reputation in the marketplace, particularly with its OEM vendors.
I am not sure what I could have done differently. Trouble tickets have been issued to ATI, IBM/Lenovo, and Microsoft:
1. AMD/ATI responded that they offer no support to end users of their OEM products:
"AMD Customer Care for ATI products does not provide direct technical support for laptops/notebooks at this current time (telephone or email). If you require direct technical support please contact the system manufacturer of your laptop/notebook."
2. IBM/Lenovo, the system manufacturer, stated that this appeared to be a software problem. They recommended that I re-install Windows/XP. They also pointed out that I purchased Vista/Ultimate from Microsoft, which is where they thought I should seek support.
3. Microsoft is currently addressing the problem under case number (SRX1033012007). The support team has confirmed that the root cause is the ATI Vista 32-bit driver. They have recommended a driver that is more stable for the short term. This has helped, the PC now only crashes every day or two. The issue now has to be escalated to someone within Microsoft who can interact with and influence AMD/ATI. However, the support has indicated that there is little more they can do:
"Please Note: The third-party product discussed here is manufactured by independent of Microsoft. We make no warranty, implied or otherwise, regarding this product's performance or reliability."
One support engineer actually suggested that I submit a new feature request to Microsoft.
The author Joe Heller coined a word for this, Catch-22. "catch-22 is any absurd arrangement that puts a person in a double bind: for example, a person can't get a job without experience, but can't get experience without a job." AMD/ATI referred the problem to IBM/Lenovo, IBM/Lenovo to Microsoft, and Microsoft back to AMD/ATI. Reminds me of the scene from Catch-22 movie with Alan Arkin.
I have attached the detailed logs of the problem(s), and a copy of the Vista Upgrade Report.
Before this six week journey, I had been very satisfied with AMD/ATI's products. This is really the first time I have been left with no solution because of a lack of co-operation between the hardware and software vendors.
I own 32 ThinkPad x31's. This experience has irritated me. Enough, that depending on the outcome, I am thinking hard about how to purchase computers in the future. The 'buck' passing has made me think. Do I need to know that my Toyota's transmission was built in China by another company?
I have come away with a feeling of mistrust. The AMD/ATI web site has many, many words about Vista. It even claims to have a complaint driver for my PC. Not true. That approaches fraud. Therefore, the inclination is to never purchase another computer with an ATI video chip. Intel looks like a better bet. If I were Mr. Ballmer, I would consider removing Microsoft's endorsement of your products.
"AMD has invested heavily in hardware and software innovations so that consumers can enjoy new experiences that take full advantage of the breakthrough capabilities that Windows Vista delivers. From day one, AMD has played a key role in helping us design and validate the new driver model at the heart of Windows Vista. That knowledge has led to the development of extremely stable, feature-rich high-performance software drivers and hardware that really showcase the full power of the new Windows operating system"
---Microsoft® CEO Steve Ballmer.

When you examine the business model, you question, Why not purchase an Apple? Why not turn to one single accountable party? Every product has subcomponents. This may be the first product where the manufacturer states, "the hardware is working fine", but your computer has crashed. It's like telling the patient's family that the operation was a success, but an infection killed the patient.
Therefore I am asking for AMD's assistance in helping me resolve this issue.
If necessary, I am willing to pay for the support needed to resolve this problem. I understand that it is unlikely to be you, but I would appreciate a note from someone in your office indicating the next steps. Anyone in your organization is welcome to call me at . And, if AMD's answer is, please call IBM/Lenovo. Please just say that in writing. Then, I can then plan accordingly.

Personally, until this point I have had no reason to question the technical excellence of AMD. I did note a sharp increase in PC industries acceptance of AMD processors in the past two years. Currently, I it appears that AMD is grappling with the challenge of merging two organizations of roughly equal size. Having begun my career with a company named Sperry, today Unisys, I understand.
Mr. Ruiz, I hope that AMD will stand behind its products and your statements of support for Microsoft's Vista operating system.
" We're proud to be working closely with Microsoft on the Certified for Windows Vista program to ensure ATI's top-to-bottom line of graphics processors deliver an outstanding Windows Vista end-user experience," said Ben Bar-Haim, vice president of the Software Engineering Division at ATI Technologies Inc. "We expect the program to make the purchasing experience easier and give users confidence in knowing that when they select systems with ATI graphics under the program, their visual experience in Windows Vista will be of a consistent high quality."
When this is resolved, I will be happy to serve as a testament to the 'new AMD'.
I look forward to hearing from someone in your office.
Very truly your

Vista Benefits over Windows/XP

1. The system boots and shuts down in ½ the time required by Windows/XP.
2. The integration with digital devices is excellent.
3. The performance logs easily locate application bottlenecks. This same hardware seems to run much faster.
4. The system (with the exception of the video driver) is actually more stable. The self-reporting capability is very good. Vista itself now refers me to the ATI web site after every system crash.
5. Ready Boost has improved system performance at very little additional cost.
6. Many of the utilities I had to purchase are now included in the Operating System (eg. 'Snipit') For my use, the only crucial ones that are still missing is a utility to save the contents of the clipboard (eg. Spartan Clipboard), and a general purpose password utility. (eg. Roboforms)
7. System update - I no longer worry about it, it just completes.
8. Search - saves lots of time, once you become familiar with it.
9. The visual affects - do not know how I spent all of that time in front of a screen without a "Vista" to enjoy. I have found several more Vista's from Hamad Dawish, the graduate student who was hired to produce the Vista desktop backgrounds.

VISTA UPGRADE ADVISOR
IBM ThinkPad X31



MICROSOFT VIDEO TEST



Vista System Crash
Page_Fault_In_NonPaged_Area
(BLUE SCREEN)
Ati3duag.dll
Page_Fault_In_NonPaged_Area
(0xfffffffe), (0x00000000), (0x951D6B91),(0x00000000)
Ati3duag.dll Address 951D6B91 Base at 951C0000

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033

Files that help describe the problem (some files may no longer be available)
Mini042907-02.dmp
sysdata.xml
Version.txt
Warning: If a virus or other security threat caused the problem, opening a copy of the files could harm your computer.

Extra information about the problem
BCCode: 100000cf
BCP1: 9244F9CC
BCP2: 00000000
BCP3: 9244F9CC
BCP4: 00000000
OS Version: 6_0_6000
Service Pack: 0_0
Product: 256_1
Server information: c391c52e-e94d-4f5c-aa38-1f0d44bb804e


Second Vista System Crash Example
Problem signature
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033
Files that help describe the problem (some files may no longer be available)
Mini042707-01.dmp
sysdata.xml
Version.txt
Warning: If a virus or other security threat caused the problem, opening a copy of the files could harm your computer.
Extra information about the problem
BCCode: 100000cf
BCP1: 9284F9CC
BCP2: 00000000
BCP3: 9284F9CC
BCP4: 00000000
OS Version: 6_0_6000
Service Pack: 0_0
Product: 256_1
Server information: d8d57208-6bf5-4648-b9db-c3cfc24c2a48

ATI CATALYST Driver Installation Crash

Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: InstallManagerApp.exe
Application Version: 3.0.608.0
Application Timestamp: 45c3d2f9
Fault Module Name: DetectionManager.dll
Fault Module Version: 3.0.608.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 45c3d0df
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 0001f108
OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: b8e7
Additional Information 2: 44fc21a4c374764063d607999c6690a2
Additional Information 3: 206f
Additional Information 4: 5775207edeea8e57735bbac873efbda5

 

I guess this was to be expected sooner or later. nVidia does not support their mobile variants, so why should ATi continue to?

Granted, I don't agree with it but I doubt AMD really cares what I think anyway.

 

AMD did resolve the issue, by provided an version of the video driver that did work correctly.

 

Hi Normanrich
happy to hear you received version to the video card for windows vista
can you please share the driver, or send me a PM to download it?

Thanks!

 

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