No more overclocking on Nvidia mobile GPUs

almost sounds like ure describing my dark knight

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Just remind them it's not all about overclocking but about the company's attitude towards customers. Problem is that 99% of users probably really won't care. They will buy what they can afford and if it does what they want they're happy.

 

Which laptop model is this, out of curiosity? I apologise in advance if it is in your signature, I'm using Tapatalk at the moment.

I feel the same way. There's a massive debate raging on in my head on;

1) Whether I have enough space to accommodate a full desktop tower, monitor and speakers at my little, flimsy desk.
2) How much I'd miss being able to take my Steam/Origin/Uplay game collections back to my family home during my (often lengthy) visits.
3) How much I'd miss being able to play games on my comfy, comfy bed instead of my comparatively uncomfortable desk chair.
4) How much of a pain it would be to relocate to my new place of residence once I leave my current rented room (very likely by the end of this year, possibly as early as September) - when the heaviest, largest possession I currently own is a little 24" TV.

I keep thinking it would make the most sense to get a desktop once I've settled down in a permanent job at a permanent place of residence rather than my current situation as a student. But NVIDIA's greedy anti-consumer antics as well as the all too often unoptimised nature of PC games in general are really making life as a laptop gamer difficult...

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Well my choice is to buy three desktops to put conveniently in my home in the places I use my laptop most or buy a laptop that I can move around easily... Nvidia has me. I was going to be happy with my 970m now I'm rethinking my decision and want a 980m. Although I can still OC with modded vBIOS, so for now, I guess I'm happy.

 

At the end of the day, as much as I crave the power of a desktop, I think I'll be sticking with laptops for another year at the very least. For the reasons I stated above, I think I'd just miss the flexibility, portability and compact nature of owning a laptop too much due to my current situation in life.

It also helps that this community we have here on these forums is considerably more friendly, mature and troll-free than any desktop forum I've ever seen

Sent from my Nexus 5

 

Lol its all good, I use Tapatalk too.

NP9377/P377SM-A

Probably just needs a repaste, when Sager swapped my 880M cards for the 980M cards they replaced the heatsinks themselves as well and the inside of my system is perfection, don't want to muck with it.

86C would be perfect. No loud fans til 87 LOL

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

Eh guys... How to check if DSR is enabled on nvidia drivers?

 

Only 559 people signed? 980M and Maxwell being used on Asus, MSI, Alienware, Gigabyte, Clevo, Samsung, Lenovo laptops and only 559 signed? Really?

Even if you don't overclock, it's just the principle of being told what Nvidia owners have been doing for years is a bug and removing that option, I don't understand why a Nvidia Maxwell user wouldn't sign.

It's your machine, you paid for it, should have the option to do what you want. Not be told by some executive scum what you can and can't do with what you spent your hard earned money for. I worked 30+ hours overtime each week for a month to pay for this as I did not want to use my usual salary on this, I have other financial obligations. This is bullcrap.

 

So I just saw the pc gamer article and came here... it's sad when a company will take away the functionality of many users who know what they are doing just to protect the few who know enough to oc but not to do it safely (if that even is the real reason... I doubt it)

Are there and model versions of the newer drivers yet that allow oc? I'm not really planning on doing it, but I don't want to be on drivers that limit what I can do with my machine.

 

http://www.dailytech.com/NVIDIA+Kil...bs+Customers+Who+Paid+For+It/article37161.htm

 

ExtremeTech also has a piece on it.

For once it's refreshing to see some educated comments, instead of the all too common "you bought a laptop to game then you try overclocking lul" ignorance.

 

Q: If overclocking is blocked because the ensuing damage is causing so many failures, where is all the news stories on the 850/860m's abnormally high failure rate?

If the failure rate numbers are so bad, show us [and the news outlets] the numbers.

...we should "demand" to see these numbers.

 

It's because active NBR users that patrol this particular sub-forum are low, and desktop users do not actually care for the most part; which is why we've been so annoyed lately.

 

Desktop users not caring is mostly harmless, it's when they spout retarded comments and try to propagate the retardedness that they must be eviscerated.

 

When I said "don't care" I meant the "ugh, why would you buy a laptop for overclocking? UGH" part of them. You know, the ones who think it's a good idea and think laptops actually get destroyed by heat when overclocked. Despite the fact that all cards in the last four years have basically thermal throttled at 92 degrees with a TJMax of 100.

 

So waht we do ? AMD got nothing for now, 9XX series are locked -_-

 

1: "B"&"C"
2: Hope.
3: Steer buyers away from Nvidia products at every chance everywhere.
4: Black magic, evil curses, and Voodoo dolls.
5: Torches and Pitchforks.
6: All of the above.

 

I'll quote myself here:

While we can remedy this via vBIOS Mods, I guess we all prefer NVIDIA to do the right thing here and re-anable a more than a decade old feature.

 

You could always build (or buy) a mini-ITX rig for your desk and buy a smaller, lighter laptop for portability and game streaming (for when you want to play on the couch).

 

The best thing to do is to act adequate.
You see someone asks help to buy a notebook? tell him to wait few months to see what AMD gives. Users don't care if you say "don't buy Nvidia because they treat customers like... They afraid of how it harms to them. Most of them don't overclock in first year and most even never will.

 

How do you know they upped the TDP level for the cards through the drivers by 20%? I agree with your assessment about NVidia wanting to limit overclocking to increase sales of rebranded slightly faster clocked cards in the future, which I think is a horrible move by NVidia, very anti consumer.

 

Prema -

Would it be as simple as flashing a vBIOS that would simply unlock the clock sliders and nothing else?

One thing that people haven't really brought up is the fact that Nvidia put a +135MHz overclock lock IN THE GPU BIOS, regardless of driver. So there was some level of expectation that the GPU could be overclocked, albeit limited. But the vRAM sliders were completely unlocked. If it were truly a "bug" users wouldn't have been able to overclock in the first place if it was locked down in the vBIOS.

 

What I see is that Nvidia has locked the oc feature because the newer cards have excellent cooling which helps overclocking the cards with much better speeds. I think the reason why the 680m - 880m have not been locked is that those cards are old now and also they get hotter then the latest cards which users will need to pay more to replace or upgrade.

 

Every user with an affected system, without any vBIOS knowledge, can see the results by simply using stock vBIOS and stock clocks with a 347 driver and compare those results to ANY other driver.
(A GPU-Z log will show you the exact clocks as well as throttle reason).
On affected systems we saw as bad as GTX970M results from a GTX980M because of prematurely executed TDP throttle.
By just changing the driver to 347 this throttle "mysteriously" vanishes and the cards suddenly reach advertised clocks/performance.
They even got us to celebrate the 347 performance gain...
347 driver is ONLY performing better because they raised the TDP and "stopped" the cards from already throttling on stock clocks.

After raising TDP by such a margin they had to take the OC away to also keep unaffected systems within the designed specks.

 

It also doesn't really make sense though.

1: How does Nvidia figure that most buyers of their product have that yearly turnover cycle? Computers are a durable good.

2: Why does Nvidia think we'll forget being burned like this? If I'm spending $2k give or take, I'll find a way to time it out in a way where I can buy AMD ...even if I have to go crossfire to get the performance I want. I'm willing to spend more to avoid Nvidia because AMD cards are cheaper and two in crossfire will trounce a single Nvidia card.

 

This is every annoying.

 

I don't like when companies produce products that break down after 1 year on purpose so that the customer has to spend more money on another product. We still have items that have lasted years without problems but it seems latest tech has been engineered to break after the warranty well that's my opinion anyway.

 

It makes sense in as much if you can get a substantial overclock to equal a rebranded slightly faster clocked product, then you're less likely to upgrade to the next version after that rebrand too. I think people would be a bit silly just to get a new notebook for a 30% gain, (but having said that there's a few that would anyway).

 

Thanks, I see how you've worked out your conclusion now - the 20% increase in TDP through the drivers.

 

Actually it happened during the beta testing of my vBIOS with a strongly affected system.
We raised the vBIOS internal TDP values until it stopped throttling on stock clocks, which roughly took a 20% increase.

Suddenly 347.09 came along and did the same on driver level.

Using 347.xx driver with stock vBIOS gives us the same results as ANY other driver with mod vBIOS (both on stock clocks). So there you go figure...

My 2Cents end here.

Spoiler

 

Remember, the laptop (and computer industry in general) has been hurt in the past couple years due to low purchase rates as people are not upgrading their older laptops and desktops. There are 3 primary reasons for this:
1) consumers don't, as a whole, have as much cash to spend on devices as they used to
2) adoption of tablets and phones that are more powerful and mobile has lessened the move to new laptops in the mobile market
3) due to performance for the "average user" (we are not considered average), fewer are updating their 2-3year old l aptops (considered to be the average time for laptop replacement)
If you think about number 3, that is currently the sandy-bridge to ivy-bridge laptops. Haswell isn't that great a jump in performance. Also, that is a range from 600 series Nvidia to now or the 6770m if considering AMD. Average users don't need extreme graphics on their laptop. If Nvidia can gimp it enough, then remove that knee cap, they get praise and adulation by the masses, when the did nothing (the 20% TDP). And they want people to upgrade faster, not only for their sake, but their laptop OEM partner's sake as well.

 

I frequent a few financial website forums and there is never a shortage of users with bumper stickers that say "the only responsibility of a company is profits". Of course, it's a group of shareholders expressing this opinion, but it has become so dominating these past couple decades from what I've seen, that what Nv is pulling was totally expected by me.

Imo, the bigger the company gets, the less the customer actually matters. I find it amazing that capitalism is putting the most important part out to pasture, the customer. It will all come to a head one day.

Anti-consumer = pro-shareholder

 

I would imagine the typical laptop buyer is not even looking for discrete graphics or understanding what a GPU does. The only way they will even notice any difference for web surfing, MS office, etc., with a new laptop compared to a 5+ year old laptop is if the new one has an SSD and different version of Windows.

At this time there is not really any reason for the vast majority of people with old laptops to upgrade unless their old laptop is riddled with malware or some component gives out, or they see everyone else at their university with a shiny new MBP.

It would be interesting to get a rough idea how many "gaming" laptops are shipping compared to last year, and how many buyers have overclocked their laptop or desktop cards.

 

aaand another article out, this time by computerbase in Germany: http://www.computerbase.de/2015-02/uebertakten-von-maxwell-in-notebooks-war-ein-fehler/

interesting tidbit: they actually made an inquiry for more details to Nvidia USA, but havent gotten a response yet.

also, theyre reporting on our petition and give a direct link to it in their article

and even though ive already said it a thousand times before, i cant repeat myself sufficiently: prema to the rescue!

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J95 to the rescue - http://forum.techinferno.com/showthread.php?t=9065

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Ethram - this has previously been suggested, only the api part is new. And Prema and other's concerns are correct. I did this without the api just to see proof of concept. Until someone finds what in the .sys file is blocking it and creates or explains an easy way to modify the driver, this is a stop gap measure at best. Still worth noting though, so thank you for that.

 

Yep, although the jury is out on how long that fix will work for, ie may not be compatible with further drivers down the line. But at least with this particular version of the latest driver that method works.

 

Yes im well aware but he's claiming that he is getting the best performance from that driver mod the way he did it so I shared it. I myself will probably mod my own vBIOS should I ever actually *need* to overclock.

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I don't think I've ever had to do almost any of that before, so it looks like I have some lessons to learn this weekend.

...maybe there'll be a youtube how to video by then.

 

Easier, use the .exe executable, it unpacks it. Quit installation, then do the copy and paste to the unpacked nvidia folder, then run setup. Donezo!

If you were referring to changing content of .inf, .ini, etc., then yes, learn, and my statement is asinine!

 

Yeah, it's something I'll have to ponder over some more. Trouble is, they make the decent monitors pretty big and heavy (27"+) - and the small ones are rather poor quality in comparison to a high PPI laptop display - not too keen on the prospect of sub-100 PPI displays after using my glorious 282 PPI Sharp IGZO panel!

I'm really torn on the matter...

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I have a theory as to why Nvidia is trying to block overclocking.

...DX12 is the reason.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8962/the-directx-12-performance-preview-amd-nvidia-star-swarm




Nvidia is trying to put some of the toothpaste back in the tube.


...and for those dual GPU notebook owners: http://www.dsogaming.com/news/dx12-...sed-gpu-in-new-test-way-beyond-console-stuff/

 

I don't think this has been posted here yet; there's an article up on PCGamer:

http://www.pcgamer.com/latest-nvidia-gtx-900m-drivers-remove-overclocking-support/

But what would DX12 performance increases have to do with 9XXM overclocking?

 

DX12 would lower the minimum required hardware for smooth gameplay significantly, that would potentially prolong a hardware cycle´s life by a significant amount. thus better to reduce / cap performance now so that limit is reached more quickly, thus incenting consumers to buy new hardware sooner rather than later

 

Apologies if this has been linked but I saw an article also at PC Perspective

http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Bring-back-mobile-overclock-NVIDIA-stick-warning-it

 

Will now, Anandtech closed the thread again.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2420666&page=9

Think I'm done there, even just to read. I'll go to other channels and keep to here as well. Just thought I would share with anyone who was reading over there not to bother anymore.

Nvidia has been very silent here. Most likely we've been screwed which means my MSI GT72 while a nice laptop, was probably more than I should have spent. Oh well. At least I won't have to worry about it ever overheating if that's the case.

 

I posted about this days and days ago. Do not look at the framerates, go look at the power consumption.



"As expected, the increased throughput from DirectX 12 and Mantle drive up system power consumption. With the CPU no longer the bottleneck, the GPU never gets a chance to idle and video card power consumption ramps up to full load."

The GPU and CPU both work harder.

 

On the flip side, lower power consumption for the same level of performance as DX11

 

That's a shame anandtech thread closed.

 

Not really, it was probably the least productive thread on this issue. Bound to happen with the amount of mudslinging and OT going on there, not to mention the AT mods. The creator of the thread didn't really care about our issue, used it more as a platform to throw Nvidia under the bus.