Notebooks vs Desktops in 2020

Im in the market for a new gaming setup in 2020 and for the first time in a very long time I dont have a very strong preference between a notebook and desktop set up. Previously mobility had always been key for me, but at this point it isnt a deal breaker.

In that context, I was wondering what the wise souls on this board are thinking in terms of how big of a gap they are expecting between notebook and desktop performance with the arrival of new nvidia GPU in Q1/2 2020? I will probably be throwing around $3500 CAD at the problem and if I can get a desktop that can tackle 4k gaming as opposed to a notebook that cant, I may abandon notebook gaming.

 

It really depends on what your goals are. If 4K at good frame rates is key for a couple years of gaming you will not do better than building a desktop. Notebooks just can't have the class of heat management that is required for that to be realistic, and the ones that do are glorified desktops, I wouldn't call them portable at all. You can build a FANTASTIC desktop for $3500 CAD. I might even say just get a decent CPU but don't overspend on it for diminishing returns, 32GB RAM, and some decent but not super expensive SSD's and throw your biggest wad of cash at a 2080Ti, or whatever the top tier GPU is at the time you are ready to spend. The GPU will be the limiting factor. You could still pocket part of that $3500 CAD and save it for upgrading the GPU down the line. A decent CPU will last you a few years for gaming at least.

EDIT: fixed some typos and added some clarification statements.

 

Ampere for desktops should be out in the summer, so from then till mobile Ampere comes out ...it will be a big gap.

I'm sort of in the same boat since I don't have an overnight job anymore, but I figured I'd still like taking it places be it another room, just outside or on vacation. I'm considering utilizing some source of upscaling [tv/avr] for 4k in the livingroom ...it seems to work well enough for my nephew's Switch on their grandmother's 65"-70" hdtv that I could make do.

 

I personally think as long as mobility is not a requirement, a desktop would always be a better choice.

 

A desktop should always be options 1, 2, and 3, if the mobility of a notebook isn't necessary.

 

I don't think 2020 will do much to further close the gap between desktops and laptops. But there's a greater possibility 2020 will see the gap between consoles and PCs shrink considerably. We'll have to wait and see.

Personally though, I'd recommend waiting for Ampere GPUs to release and then getting a desktop, especially if you want 4k at high frame rates.

 

There's always something around the corner, unless it's imminent I'm always in the camp just set an upper limit budget and get what you can when you want to buy. I don't think Ampere is coming for another 6mos at least. If you're waiting till April 2020 to buy something anyway, yeah, we'll probably see something in July-Aug.

 

Thanks a lot for your opinions!

 

Exactly it's always weird to me how in every forum where someone asks for recommends there's always the mantra of wait x months for x new gen to come out when most of the time there's only minor increments between succeeding generations, other than increasing prices it seems. Just get the best for your needs within budget that's available now, keep it for a few years then upgrade again. The only reason for waiting would be the better 4k perf. than what is available now.

 

When I was new to PC gaming, I listened to that mantra on the forums. I waited about 6 months to get a Pascal GPU notebook as my first gaming PC instead of buying a Maxwell GPU notebook. And I'm glad I did. The GTX 1060 it has packs the power of a GTX 980, but for a significantly cheaper price, and in a significantly more portable package. I wouldn't call that a "minor increment" between succeeding generations. (Although to be fair, the difference between Pascal and Turing was less.) And if you already have a PC that's aging but serving you well, I say it's definitely worth a 6-month-ish wait. (If your PC just died, that's a different story.)

Regardless, the OP expressed interest in 4k gaming and seems to be fine holding out through Q1/Q2 2020. If 4k is the driving force behind making a purchase, and waiting a while isn't a concern, the advice to hold out for Ampere is solid.

 

Well yeah if for 4k at higher framerates then sure I guess for laptops. Desktop I can't see it though w the cards out there now that also have second hand market. I guess if it's a couple of months to wait sure but I wouldn't wait 6 mos if I had it in mind to get something. I do consider perf between laptop 980(m or regular) and 1060 laptop not that big, yeah it does run cooler and sure you get a thinner laptop, those are not that big of deal to me unless you want oc. Laptop cards don't have that much difference,
https://benchmarks.ul.com/compare/b...RE&reverseOrder=true&types=MOBILE&minRating=0

Edit: as to price it's hard to think newer is cheaper, seems kinda counter intuitive but I don't know I wasn't looking back then.

 

For instance, I was ready to buy something in Mar-April so I nabbed this LG Gram 17 in March and a Sonnet 550W eGPU enclosure and the Asus Strix 2070 in late April. The RTX Super line came out not long after but I don't regret the purchase at all. It does exactly what I need it to do at the performance level I require. I may swap out the GPU later this year depending on what gets released and if the RT performance is greatly increased. Not really jonesing for it though, my games are all playing extremely well and I'm having fun with my gaming, that's all that really matters in the end. I'm pretty much done chasing gear unless it's an extremely compelling jump in performance for the budget I set or there's a new feature to toy with that exists within the budget I set.

Seems the kicker here is the OP is saying they are looking to purchase in Q1/Q2. If you are still happy with your existing rig and can make it to Q2 that's what I would call "imminent" timing of a product launch. 6 months is a LONG time to wait. Between both AMD and nVidia there's always something 6 months down the road.

 

Yeah true 6 months waiting is too much, but a lot of people in gaming don't have the impulse control in regards to the latest and greatest. Research takes time and ability too. I only got a new desktop card because my old card sold for more than what I paid for it(bought by some company off amazon) and a new card was less than what I got for my old card so I pocketed the difference. When I went to laptops only, the remaining evga warranty was a good selling point on the 1060, easy sale. It certainly wasn't a performance upgrade by much. That was a 970 3.5gb to a 1060 6gb a few years ago before my switch to laptops only. I could have sold the 1060 for even more because of the mining bubble had I paid attention more. Obv the OP wants 4k high fps so a desktop is obv the right choice for cost/perf.- almost always is. Can't stand all these laptops w 2070/2080 with only a FHD screen, makes no sense other than if it has a higher hz/fps screen or using an external high res/refresh screen.

 

For those of you who have had the pleasure, what was your experience like for 4k gaming vs 1080p?

I'm just curious seeing as I've never seen gaming in 4k. Certainly in my brief experiences seeing 4k TVs the difference is astounding. I assumed it would be a similar experience for gaming, but thay doesn't mean it hashes out the same way for another media.

 

From no difference at all to a world of difference ... Depending on sitting distance and screen size. If you are a couch gamer with like 50+ inch TV, you can feel it for sure. For a 27" computer screen where you are sitting in front of it, I would say a 1440p resolution with high refresh rate makes much more sense.

On a 15.6" laptop screen, I can personally see the difference but I find it so marginal that it is absolutely unnecessary performance killer, so here 1080p all the way.

 

For games it doesn't make much of a difference at 15", depending on the game. For games that rely heavily on UI and fonts it can make a big difference. I had a 15.6" 4K laptop and the difference was most stark with the quality of font rendering in UI heavy games like strategy games.

Not gaming related, but productivity apps and web pages look WAY better in 4K. It's mainly font rendering and UI that gets the most lift going from 1080p->4K. If you have a 1440p 15" it might not be as stark. For instance I'm using 1600p at 17" and it's just good enough that I don't see jaggyness and pixels in fonts and UI elements.

 

This is sadly due to crappy windows font renderer, but you are correct in this regard. Fonts look night and day better at 4k, even though I usually use like 300% scaling with 4k .

 

There's nothing wrong with the way windows renders fonts as long as apps use the proper DPI aware APIs. It's at low resolutions they look comparatively like garbage, which makes a lot of sense.

 

gee I wonder if a apple tastes better than a orange.....If I was a mod i'd close this thread litterally dropped my IQ to single digits

 

As it relates to the desktop and notebook gap closing, Thermal management will be an issue that cannot be ignored in the gap being closed. Hard ware has become more similar across the two platforms but cooling will be a key element in reliability in my opinion.

 

Cooling is extremely important. My previous two [7805u & G73jh] and current [MSI GT72] were all dual HSFs and I've never had a gaming laptop under seven pounds.

...funny how only my first [SLi1] was without dual HSFs when it was a SLI config with the two GPUs sandwiching the heat pipes ...and it still had to cool the CPU ...and l OC'd the GPUs +10% ...and it somehow still works the last I checked.

 

Indeed, but we have evidence of laptop cooling that is on par or even surpasses some desktops.
The most notable example is Acer Helios 500 PH517-61 with Ryzen 2700 and Vega 56.
That unit has monstrous cooling which can put some desktops to shame under full load no less (where temperatures don't exceed 65 degrees C), and is one of the quietest laptops ever built (even compared to some desktops).

And yes, while the unit in question is relatively thick, its still highly portable (more so in comparison to an actual desktop) - and gives you desktop level performance in a mobile 17" unit.

This only goes to show that OEM's can indeed build laptops with cooling that is not only adequate to allow internal hw to run at its maximum indefinitely (or basically, as long as you need full blown performance) but is also quiet.

Most OEM's however don't really do this though, and they end up cutting corners which results in insufficient cooling along with thermal throttling.

Also, while sizes of laptops are different and a limiting factor for 'conventional cooling', OEM's barely moved beyond conventional implementation of cooling which hadn't been advanced in the last 20 years or so (and not because its impossible, but mainly because OEM's don't see it as too important or too cost prohibitive to bother with).

In cases of thin and light laptops, OEM's should really focus on using cooling and chassis made from better materials which would allow the internal hw to run as it should at all times even when fully stressed.
Apple for instance uses a full body chassis made of metal which acts like a giant heatsink... something which other laptop manufacturers might take into account and use better material composites for example (carbon based).

The standard cooling which uses rotating fans is also highly outdated.
Various concepts for better cooling were introduced over the past decade, none of which were implemented into laptops as far as I'm aware (one was a fanless fan essentially, and the other worked similar to a human lung).

Today however, with Zen 2 mobile being released into the mobile world, you have desktop grade performance inside a laptop.

The 4800H for example is a 45W TDP APU with 8c/16th which will in all likelihood be comparable to a desktop Ryzen 3600 in multithreaded tasks.

Higher end laptops will probably incorporate full blown 65W TDP desktop CPU's such as 3700x and 3900 (non x) with mid to high end GPU's (such as 5700 and above).

And Zen 2 should allow for more affordable gaming laptops.
So, the apparent difference between a laptop an desktop is fading now, but is still there of course.

Laptop OEM's need to be taken into account as their quality control and cooling implementations can be problematic, but I'm hoping Zen 2 will shift things around (only time will tell).

 

I am really hoping that the laptop OEM continue to push the limits, I am a fan of the mobility that comes with the perofmrance laptop. The Zen 2 sounds amazing, I am very excited for the future.

 

There is always going to be a gap due to thermals, unless you can get watercooling in a laptop mainstream. But still, heavy rads won't be desirable.
To me it's AMAZING that you can get GTX1080 desktop performance and higher in a laptop!

 

When things become worse... I warned about 880m being a stop gap and provided nothing. Welcome to the same mess in 2020 @Mr. Fox @Ashtrix @jc_denton @TBoneSan +++


In an embarrassment for Nvidia, the cheaper GeForce RTX 2070 Max-Q can outperform some GeForce RTX 2080 Super Max-Q laptops

https://www.notebookcheck.net/In-an...ce-RTX-2080-Super-Max-Q-laptops.477965.0.html

 

"If laptops with the older RTX 2070 Max-Q or RTX 2080 Max-Q have the potential to outperform their newer Super Max-Q variants, then it calls into question if the Super Max-Q series was ever needed in the first place."

 

When new tech transforms into worse than last years. Should it be called progress? Not only Max-Q Super is a mess.

Embarrassing for Intel: A Core i7-10510U with below-average performance can be slower than the two-year-old Core i5-8250U notebookcheck.net

The Acer TravelMate P215 is perhaps smaller and lighter than the model from last year, but not faster despite the brand new Core i7 Comet Lake U CPU from Intel's 10th processor generation.

This is probably disappointing for anyone who had hoped for a leap in performance, but one could also argue that mobility and connectivity play a bigger role in office laptops than pure performance.

 

I loved my 3 year old laptop but thinking about what could have I got with the money I used to buy it makes me ask my sanity and made realized what a waste of money that was for my intention of use w/c is gaming!. I could have assembled an 8core/TI level desktop, bought xbox, ps4 and switch one time while having enough to buy a high end monitor.

 

Well, if performance is the sole or main factor, a laptop will NEVER be the first pick.

What I’ve come to realize is that a laptop begins to make sense only when (potentially niche) personal circumstances begin to play a role. I recently paid for a customized Alienware and with the money I spent, I probably could’ve gotten a desktop with twin 2080 Super in SLI and a generous amount of overclockable RAM and SSD storage.

But I still went with this because I’m an expatriate far away from home on annual contracts that are not 100% guaranteed to give me an extension, and with this kind of uncertainty especially in today’s environment, reselling or shipping components back home would be a stressful event. Or hell, maybe my career prospects could improve and I’ll find myself becoming an expat somewhere else. Same logistics issue.

 

I genuinely understand your situation since I'm in the same boat and also had the same reason why I bought mine, but with SFF supporting high end pc parts partnering it with 25" monitor plus a large suite case, there might be a hope for us . The only tricky part will be the monitor. Fitting it securely inside a large suitcase will be a problem and a challenge!

 

2020 has been an interesting year for the notebook vs desktop debate. I bought my most recent computer, a gaming-compatible laptop, in 2018, when I was traveling out of state regularly for work, and didn't go all-out... I went with a GTX 1050 as it was about half as powerful as my desktop's RX 480, and I decided that was sufficient for the road, which it has been. I could have spent a ton on a top-of-the-line gaming laptop, and it was somewhat tempting to get a laptop with a desktop CPU and go all-in on the desktop replacement route. Maybe if the Helios that Deks mentioned had been out a few months earlier, I would have bought it. But I'm happy with my decision to strike a balance between mobility and performance. Now that I'm not traveling for work, I use my desktop 95% of the time that I'm gaming, but I still take that laptop to my 'rona-recovered friend's house for a good old-fashioned LAN every so often.

Meanwhile, my friend who has sworn off ever building another desktop changed his tune when Ampere's desktop specs were announced. He used to take his GTX 1070 laptop to community VR meetups, but that isn't happening anymore, and he can get a lot more powerful hardware for the money in a desktop. So his upgraded VR rig is going to be a desktop.

As always, it depends on one's personal situation.

 

The thing that a laptop gives you that a desktop cant is the mobility. Not trying to be captain obvious with that but it's the defining need versus want point. I travel a great deal for both work and play so a top notch mobile experience is important and the only way I get it is with a laptop. That laptop is going to cost some serious ching but the money doesn't define the purchase, it's need that makes it the only choice, desktop power is not an option even though I would pay for it if it were possible. If you start moving over into convenience with a desktop versus a laptop it's just a value proposition versus income and if power is the defining metric then a desktop is not going to be beaten or equaled in the foreseeable future. For all of us it's probably some combination of those things weighed off one against another but it's going to be highly individual and subjective based on the personal use case/need.

 

I don't even really travel with mine much at all, but my situation is that I pretty much use it on my lapdesk most of the time when I'm gaming. Just me wanting to be in the room where things are happening instead of off by myself in a dungeon. And it's SO MUCH BETTER to have 3lb on your lap + whatever a comfy lapdesk weighs.. than 6 or more.. I like it even though I know I'm leaving all sorts of performance on the table with a 15W CPU and TB3 eGPU.. games play just fine I don't care..

 

Tb3 only loses like 10 to 20 percent vs desktop....I bought a thin and light gaming notebook for older games and newer ones will benefit from the 8750h coupled with a 3080.

 

The more you're GPU limited the lower the performance drop is. It's pretty stark at 1080, lesser so at 4K. The performance drop for me is a little moreso since I'm using the laptop display, can't really use a monitor connected directly to the eGPU. If I could do that I'd just build a desktop. The only thing I'm a little concerned about is how much only 4 PCI lanes are going to hamstring performance as we continue to move forward and perhaps games have more reliance on PCI bandwidth. We need TB5 to be 8-lane.

 

My 1060 gs63vr better last 5 years...with or without egpu..I see thing moving to 4k heck even 8k and since I'm gaming at 1080p I should be fine since 4 times the power is what is need for 4k...and nothing is 4x cept maybe a 3070 or 2080ti...and if I had those GPUs I would not be gaming at 1080p

 

I used to run Clevo and other DTRs because they were the first that could actually game half decently when laptop gaming became a thing. Before that so called gaming laptops were pretty much crap although slightly better than non gaming laptops. In any event that's a lot of weight to pack around airports, 10 lbs for the lappie and 2 or 3 for bricks. I eventually gave them up because it become a real problem overseas where carries can have you limited to as little as 7 or 8 kilos carry and it was crimping my travel. Now I run an Aorus that is 7 lbs with the brick and it's a decent gaming experience that I can take everywhere. You've got 2k native, a desktop 1080 thats well mated to pushing frames to that res; throw on a set of headphones and it's not bad at all. There wasn't any versus there however, I wasn't choosing between a desktop versus a laptop. I also have a flight sim setup at home which I've moved over to VR and you cant have too much power there so it's the latest greatest and soon to be on ampere (most likely) once the dust settles. My point was that it doesn't really matter what I want for the non flight sim rig, I need a potent laptop to fill that position. Maximum power on the other hand can only be filled with a desktop because you cant get maximum power in a laptop and wont for a while. Other use cases are largely weighting pros and cons many of which are subjective or individual. I'm in no way saying mobile gaming isn't good, my own opinion is that it's become very good in the last few years.

 

You can probably squeak some life out of it at 1080. I was just playing Control again for a bit at 1600p with RTX on HIGH + DLSS and it plays really well. I was starting to rethink dropping money on a 3000 series....

 

You can definitely squeak some life out of a GTX 1060 if gaming at 1080p, although I wouldn't say it's ideal on new demanding titles. I just played through Control again myself using my GTX 1060, and it's definitely playable, but you have to make sacrifices, e.g., medium settings, 60fps, and of course no ray tracing or DLSS--and even on medium settings, I saw noticeably distracting frame rate drops below 60fps at times. Control is a particularly demanding game, but it's already a year old and with the new consoles and GPUs releasing in the near future, new games will push the limits even more. I have no doubt that the GTX 1060 can still hold its own for a while longer, but playing through Control again has reminded me how limited the card is becoming. And now I'm itching to upgrade to something beefier, like an RTX 3070.

That said, if I had a 2060 or 2070, I'd probably wait until Hopper. But that's just me, I tend to be frugal and don't need the latest and greatest. I'm generally happy skipping a GPU generation, like I did with Turing. (Which turned out to be a good GPU generation to skip anyway.)

 

I'll say a few more years at best, That still pretty good for a 4 year old GPU.

Also 4K is worthless on a laptop if you're gaming. Even desktops still struggles with 4K gaming so dont worry.

 

Yeah I dropped 1700 on this laptop in Canadian dollars I think that's close to 1300 usd...not the best deal but I like the per key RGB keyboard and i7 8750h processor..basically a gs65 with a 1060...I tried msfs at 1080p best I can do is all low...but I doubt games will be that demanding in the next few years as most are ports.....but what has me worried is the Xbox series x...might have to buy one

 

Lol hahaha...does anyone else notice we talk about laptops like they are business tools whereas we use them as gaming toys.. imagine telling your family you bought a Lambo to get from a to b car and for picking up the odd bit of groceries

 

Fwiw my 2020 Omen can push 60-75fps in 4K (200% rendering) on Warzone with mostly ultra and even more on Destiny on ultra. I'd love to have 144fps but im not crazy. Either way it's absolutely amazing what gaming laptops have become.

 

This is true, there's so many options to be able to use one instead of a desktop if you just want to play some games and only have a laptop. Pretty much something for everyone. Large DTRs, thin and lights, eGPUs, and everything in between.