*Official* nVidia GTX 10xx Series notebook discussion thread

The tripod cancer is clearly a contagious disease.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

Man, that certainly is one crazy ugly laptop. I don't particularly care for the look of the new Alienware systems either, but my goodness... the G701 is easily winning the ugliest laptop contest, LOL.

To be fair, the Predator 17 is also pretty darned tacky-looking. The bright red plastic inserts with the big "X" marks in the rear vents and the keys with red borders is over the top on gaudiness. The abuse of poorly appointed red plastic trim reminds me of a toy gun for some reason.

What in the world wrong with the nutty people designing this kiddie stuff? We kind of expect crap on the inside with the use of BGA filth, but their affinity for making bad design choices seems to be universally applicable to every aspect of the products they are selling. Racy and edgy is one thing... but, Good Lord, they are taking ugly to unprecedented levels now.

BGA turdbook theme for 2017: Cannot be taken seriously

 

Perhaps because the gaming kids that are the target? Who else want to use something like this at work? And see the placement for the 1080 sticker on the screen


Edit: I forgot to tell that also Asus, like AW and Azer have battery discharge under full load. Even with a more than good enough 330Psu.

 

That 1080 sticker automatically adds 10 3DMark points to every benchmark, and serves as an ever-present reminder to the owner that he is a very special boy (or girl).

I guess they really do have a pulse on what the juvenile masses are looking for in a turdbook.

 

Or nice colored info for the Kids. Need to match the ugly colored grills.

 

That is so they don't accidentally touch the wrong spot and burn themselves.

That it actually needs to have that warning label to be placed on any external surface should be the first clue about what kind of product it is. But, yet they went ahead and released it that way anyhow. Nice!

 

Yeah, Stickers is importent for some. I liked it also, +40 years ago. I'm too old for it now Fox

 

Is that the 'keep clear of your testicles' sticker?
Perhaps they realise their target market have yet to descend

 

I hope the owners read what's written on the stickers before they start to use the Laptop. Too late afterwards

 

I'm sure that everyone considering buying laptops with BGA chips will be swayed by mature, thoughtful arguments such as the ones above and that there are no ad hominem attacks being made. <---- This is sarcasm in case you're incapable of detecting that.

More seriously, while I would prefer if more CPUs were able to be upgraded I also think that it is foolish to latch onto a single aspect of notebook design and hold it above all others and I really disagree with your constant derision and ridicule of anyone who bought a soldered machine and find most of your comments childish and imbecilic. But, hey, maybe you have a fetish for being elitist, exclusionary, and immature and need to act that way to get off - and if that's your kink then... Ok I guess? Although I wish you'd go do it elsewhere or at least be classier while you're doing it. I mean, really, do you have to have an avatar of someone vomiting? I know that you think it's cool and edgy but it really isn't and just makes you look even worse than the constant barrage of hate and derision.

If you actually want to convince people of the 'evilz' of BGA processors how about posting some actual proof, preferably in the form of benchmarks, and well reasoned arguments rather than just sitting around and patting yourselves on the back for buying socketed machines. Also make sure to keep in mind there might not be LGA options for everyone and that, even though it means giving up the option to upgrade and more easily make repairs, some people might not care about BGA and LGA as much as you do.

Alternatively you can keep wanking one another off over your machines and making baseless attacks against anyone who buys a soldered CPU/GPU.

 

Laughed harder than I should have reading this. That avatar bothers me so much. I literally debated not tagging him in the 1080 Ti thread because I hate seeing it so much.

 

Passive-aggressive much?

 

I guess nobody cares about the 6700HQ or the 7700HQ compared to the 4710HQ or the 6820HK & the voltages, Sums up the entire point of discussion of the LGA/PGA vs the BGA & the unidimensional thought of "Upgrading" which often comes to the people who don't care about the socketed machines, Ultimately pretty much seals the fate of the BGATel powered Jokebooks. Can't help..

But the AM4 when it hits the MSI/Clevo then the hit will be so hard that it will echo a lot haha...

 

Am I or that post? I wasn't trying to be aggressive I (first off tagged him anyway but) really just hate looking at it.

 

Some people can only learn the hard way. But, when tragedy comes home to roost it has potential to be an effective antidote against future episodes of bad judgment.

 

If you hit up one of my posts... Yooo will find that I have posted a few bench results with [email protected] BGA clock speed. All results beat what comes from the fully locked 6700hq. Same clock speeds but NOT same results!!

The previous low entry i7 BGA chips had possibility for 2 bin extra. Now is the Intel low entry BGA chips fully locked!! WHAT A PROGRESS.

 

I think the point is you're not even putting in the effort. You said if you hit up one of my posts. No one is going to do that on their own just by reading your other ones.

Take @edit1754 for example. He will constantly link correct and helpful info whenever it is needed on his posts usually about display quality and spreading awareness about pentile displays. A similar crusade against a bad trend in display tech, but I support his posts 100%. It's probably more tedious than your text spam sure, but his posts are far higher quality than most users on this forum including you and me. Professional, friendly, and helpful.

 

I suspect that plenty of people are interested in how different CPU lines perform, and personally I would love to see identical BGA and LGA chips benchmarked to see if there are any performance gains or losses, but the real issue here is that no one is bothering to actually provide said proof and seem to be hiding behind dismissive platitudes that attack the people buying NGA laptops offhand instead of trying to educate people and make factual, well thought out arguments.

 

The proof is already out there and voluminous for those that do not require being spoon-fed information. The difference where CPU performance is meaningful is nothing short of massive. There is no such thing as "identical BGA and LGA chips" so you can only get similar comparisons based on core count and pecking order. The BGA chips are almost universally poorly binned samples and have functional limitations relating to overclocking that the K-series LGA chips do not have. People that know better expect those that do not to be able to at least have the ability to do some basic investigation on their own. Best place to start is 3DMark.com for this. Use the search feature and choose whatever benchmark you wish. The differences in scores between the best BGA CPU and the best LGA CPU with the same core count is huge. Remember to look not only at the overall score, but also the physics scores. Break it down... any way you slice it, the best BGA sample available is grossly inferior to an ordinary LGA, and the gap widens exponentially when you start overclocking them.

If using a web browser for a few minutes to seek out information is too taxing, simply visiting the Clevo Overclock thread and looking at the scores there, then comparing them to the best we have seen posted by BGA jockeys it will make things pretty clear as well. It's literally a blood bath for BGA... not even close. Just remember, comparing max OC on BGA to stock clocked LGA is not a legitimate measurement. That minimizes the inferiority of BGA, resulting in confusion and misconception. That's a fairly common flawed argument presented by BGA fanboys. You'd need to compare stock versus stock if that is what floats your boat.

 

Unless that is specifically the fault of chips being BGA then that seems more of an issue with Intel and less a problem with the BGA process unless there is something endemic to that forcing Intel to make weaker chips aside from the obvious thought that they don't want to put too much thermal pressure on thinner and lighter machines?

If it is the former more competition with AMD will hopefully force Intel to produce a higher quality product, if the latter then I think people would be more interested in detailed posts explaining why the BGA process is forcing weaker processors than a constant stream of 'BGA sucks and makes me vomit - you're just a kid if you buy a notebook that has one and a poopoohead because my machine is so much better and the best and BGA is horrible'. Because being helpful and educational instead of insulting and dismissive is far likelier to win you support.

 

How you dare call my posts "text spam"?
If you had been in my PM box and see all those who thank me and as well asked me questions... same in threads. But thanks for the encouragement.

 

It's not that you don't help people those aren't the posts I'm talking about.

I'm talking about this kind of thing:

" MSI GE62VR is a JokeBook. Soldered hardware... No thanks!! Either the Clevo model, or look at this one http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...nado-f5-owners-and-discussions-lounge.797128/
Desktop processor in a laptop chasis? No problem."

"I just have a very very good advice to give you... Give a damn in BGA!! All of the BGA i7 or whatever from the BGA line is pure trash aka low binned junk pushed out from Intel. Even if you do not overclock ... Only socket i7 is usable(You intend running for 3+ years)"

"Regardless... Jump of the BGA train and opt for Clevo or MSI barbones with socket hardware!!"

"The AW is a Turdbook. All hardware soldered on the MB. Stay far away from it."

"And if he go for a Turd with soldered hardware... Buy max extended warranty. Because it ain't cheap if you have to replace the MB. And can as well be difficult to obtain."

This is all from a single thread. The reason it bothers me is that you say over and over get off of BGA. But it's not until that last quote that you give an actual reason why. Not to mention the OP who was trying hard to do research you call his first option a "jokebook". I know you didn't mean it maliciously at him, but I've dealt with plenty of users who would take that the wrong way.

Again, don't get me wrong. I had a similar conversation with @Mr. Fox a while ago. I'm not saying you don't help people, I'm glad you're here and helping users. I'm just saying you need to try and be more educational with your posts and inform users instead of getting caught up in your hate of BGA. Some of these quotes are misleading too. Saying that a mobile i7 isn't usable for 3 years... I have multiple machines that beg to differ.

 

It's not a matter of fault as much as intent. What sucks and doesn't has everything to do with intent, purpose and intended audience. Where BGA sucks is when it is offered as a lame substitute. BGA fanboys like to play the "BGA has a purpose card" and to some extent that is true. It does have a purpose. When you use the wrong tool for any job the chance of something getting broken is much greater.

BGA is ideally suited for low cost small electronics that are disposable by design. Things such as smart phones, tablets, browser appliances, Ultra-portable and entry-level consumer notebooks. There is no problem with the implementation here and modular components work against the design of these product for no reason other than space. Where the problem and demonstrations of hatred and contempt justifiably surface is where they are using these inferior processors on more robust, expensive products where the intended audience is power users, overclockers and gaming enthusiasts. Some people find value in being able to service what they own and stretch their dollars by repairing and, whenever possible, upgrading those components. BGA totally shuts that out and serves no purpose but to help OEMs sell more product by using the concept inappropriately to force obsolescence or impede service and repair. Their motivation is greed-based and should not be tolerated.

To power users, overclockers and serious gaming enthusiasts it is disturbing that BGA is becoming the norm. It detracts massively from what we value in computers and we end up having few or no available options that are satisfactory. Everything ends up being unfit and incapable of meeting our expectations. Where the waters start to get muddy is when casual gamers and people that regard themselves as enthusiasts, but really aren't, get their feelings hurt and try to defend BGA and get upset with the natural responses of those who are at enmity with it. I can only speak for myself here, but the contempt is not for people buying it... it's for the snake-oil peddlers selling lies using smoke and mirrors to push garbage to those most vulnerable. It is an unethical business practice.

 

Again, I'm always honest in my comments about what is good and what is bad. I can always be better, but as I said ... I'm genuinely honest in my comments. I can not recommend something I myself would not even purchased. Perhaps others would do that, but not me.

 

Dude your missing the point. It's not about honesty it's about information.

Saying: "This notebook sucks!" Is literally just a worthless waste of screen space and people's time. Just don't bother typing. (That's my honest opinion)

Saying: "This notebook is a bad choice because the soldered processor limits your upgrade options, increases risk of expensive repairs, and decreases performance." Is helpful.

That's all I'm trying to say.

 

Maybe re-read your previous post # 3768
I could post this in more threads, but sometimes is less better. People will be curious and perhaps will looking up important information themselves. You can put it many ways.

 

This will be my final post discussion this, but assuming people will be curious is just an assumption, one that will often not turn out to be the case.

... I tried, but you're not listening or even open to it it seems.

I'll leave a nice quote, “Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Isaac Asimov

 

There needs to be some balance. I totally understand what both of you are saying. Sometimes a little bit goes a long way and the contrast between the statements in Brother @Galm example above is a good take-away.

To be completely fair, Brother @Papusan posts a lot of evidence and so have others. There is, and should be, some expectation that when factual information is posted that it gets seen because people are paying attention. That may be too much to ask in an instant gratification culture, but if it becomes necessary to support every expression of contempt for BGA with documentation that can become tedious for everyone involved in the thread, regardless of their opinion about BGA. Those that have never heard that BGA sucks, do not know any better and genuinely want to understand why BGA is bad, can ask questions and request more information. If they spend much time in the sub-forums where passionate performance enthusiasts spend most of their time those questions can potentially answer themselves by looking at what is there to be seen.

One thing Papusan does that is actually good, and I seldom do, is he ventures into the sub-forums dominated by BGA-lovers. I avoid it because I do not want my presence to be antagonistic and sometimes it is too difficult for me to be quiet out of respect for the opinions of others. So, I just distance myself from them. That doesn't help them get the exposure to facts and information they need to get converted to a BGA-hater or a well-informed BGA-tolerator. I know his intentions are good and he wants them to get the exposure and information for their enlightenment. Instead of being offended, maybe ask why and the supporting information will come naturally in response to the request.

 

Well one of the things I notice is that @Papusan posts a ton of great evidence in threads like this (he has posted a ton of it in here) and other discussion threads.

It's the WNSIB threads where what I'm talking about seems to happen the most. And that's where I think it needs to not happen the most.

Nothing he says here is going to effect that much, most of the readers on this thread are all experienced power users who know Papusan, or are people trying to learn more who are curious. The people asking for advice though are often newbies to tech stuff and don't know much about the users here or even what BGA vs LGA means. They need the information upfront, not teased in hopes they'll google it themselves.

I've never had a problem with Papusan going into BGA threads, we know the layout of the land there and his posts are often at the very least interesting, and often very helpful to users.

 

I search up in threads, forum and the whole web for info. Both for LGA, BGA and much other related hardware and software stuff... Info is important. Some call it King. A lot of people need to know the whole truth. If I have the info people ask or search for... I will of course share it. Even the bad ones... like the topic BGA!!

Thanks!!

 

Indeed, catching mistakes before they happen is the best approach. Sometimes those threads can be pretty heated. I have seen some examples where evidence is presented and the people that like a machine being cast into a negative light get very upset. It sometimes seems like their angst increases proportionately to the volume of evidence against a particular product.

There is a time when those threads should be left alone as well. If the OP lays out a desire for something inexpensive with a focus on low cost or being extraordinarily thin or small, there is no point in having a strong presence there. Maybe a little to keep things in perspective is useful. Something like, "it is unrealistic to expect to purchase a powerful gaming machine for under $1500" can be useful. Being helpful here is pointing out when their expectations are unrealistic and cannot be met with any product available unless they can find something second-hand for a great price. But, suggesting a P870 or a Tornado F5 to someone looking to spend very little money and have something as small and lightweight as possible is a waste of everyone's time.

In contrast, suggesting a P870 or Tornado F5 to someone considering an Alienware 17 (or similar BGA abortion in another brand) because they want a DTR that gives the best performance possible, even if it costs them more to get it, is a Godsend if they pay attention to good advice. They need to know that what they are looking at is going to potentially be a huge disappointment and not meet their expectations. And, these are the threads where things get most heated with BGA fanboys trying to do damage control on behalf of their pet brand. Facts about the inferiority of BGA are ignored and emotions rise.

I think you do a fantastic job, bro. Keep up the good work. We cannot help people that won't listen and do not want a variety of excellent products to meet every need and desire across the spectrum (something we are sorely missing today). Don't waste time on them. Save your calories for those that can be saved. We can expect them to whine and make noise though. They always do.

 

Those who can not be saved, can just sail in its own puddle(Some of they even know it). Info I put out is meant for everyone. If no one is standing on the barricades, we will all lose in the end.

See as well THIS my good friend @Mr. Fox @Phoenix +++ all I've not named and all who is interested.

 

You see, @Galm has put it very nicely. There are plenty of people who really don't care about whether or not a machine uses BGA or RPGA or LGA, let alone whether it throttles. Does it play games? Does it look good? Is it not too heavy? That's good enough. They couldn't give two hoots about the nitty-gritty details, because honestly speaking, aesthetics matter. I can assure you that people would choose a Blade or an AW13 over a P650HP just because the former two look nicer. I have honestly given up trying to convince others that BGA isn't good, because we first have to convince Intel, who's likely not going to give a damn about a dozen people hooting about it in a relatively obscure forum (we aren't even Reddit, which is supposedly the 'front page of the internet'—imagine the percentage of internet traffic that you need to command first, to make that sort of claim). We're just wasting our breaths here, honestly. It's why I say 'live and let live'.

 

Maybe because they do not truly understand tech (many are actually not so technically versed) or perhaps because they have not found the correct info.

As you can see... Only this single thread has close to 375.00 Views. I'm reasonably certain that some have obtained useful info.

 

Reddit is the 7th most popular site in the U.S. with 100+ million page views per month.

And considering the sites ahead of it are either the big boys or common homepages(Google, Youtube, Facebook, Yahoo, Wikipedia, and Amazon) they truly are the front page.

Ahead of Ebay, Twitter, and even Netflix.

But even reddit doesn't have a large enough laptop community.

 

Well, at least we can die as happy elitists, satisfied to no end in the knowledge that we were the most intelligent dozen left on the planet, untainted by filth and redeemed from destruction at the altar of feces.

 

Take a look on the pict below. This is so called upgradeable memory in newest laptops. Is this what we want in future performance laptops? One of the memory sticks is soldered. And people buy it because they haven't found decent info.

 

Consumer ignorance on this order of magnitude is beyond tragic, but the company selling such pathetic trash is worthy of complete and utter annihilation, with every trace of their existence erased from record.

 

As I said in one of the previous posts... If no one is standing on the barricades and tells what is about to happen. Will the picture I showed above, be the outcome in the end. Info out to the people... So they can vote with their wallet.

 

Yes, that needs to be done. The smart people will pay attention to avoid buying garbage and be grateful for the information. The stupid people that believe it is OK will be angry that you are raining on their parade, but they should be ignored. It does not matter whether they like it or not. Their approval is not necessary and their disapproval is of no consequence.

 

I know several that have built high-performance desktops, and yet all they want is a portable, light machine that can play games when they are on the go. The P7/8, sometimes even the P6 series are too massive. They have their needs and sometimes (actually most of the time) they know their machine is not fully performant, but they don't care because it's a small sacrifice for extremely high portability.

 

Criminal this is. This is just corner cutting. You can clearly see the having fully modular RAM wouldn't impact the machines Z-height what-so-ever beyond that of the Heatsink seen in the picture.

Out of pure curiosity - where are you're friends actually gaming on the go? eg. on a bus, lunch break etc...?

 

On a bus, in a train, in a cramped table in a military bunk, on lecture theatre tables, etc... Their notebooks follow them everywhere.

 

This...deployments will definitely test the build quality of your machine, I'd rather have the P870DM2/3 performance but the Alienware is better built and has a far better keyboard (plus i switch machines out every 24 months or so). Every machine has its place....it would be like myself getting mad that everyone is not buying motorcycles like me because they are faster and cheaper even though they don't serve the purpose other people need.

 

Yes it's criminal Tbone. Eg...
You can clearly see how close Alienware is to use one of two ram slots with soldered RAM chips like the pict above. They are one of the very few rare brands that has only 2 ram slots in their flagship high performance gaming model. 2 ram slots in a big 17 inch laptop chassis is the first sign!! As well a great way to almost force people to choose OEM or so called matching ram from Dell store. A big win - win for Dell... Not the customers!! And with better engineering... Make the models even thinner. Everything is possible. Yeah, maybe the next 11xx Series notebook models will be the start of the end.

 

I knew that for pure performance a lga was a better option but ended with a lga option because for my use (gaming) the difference was relatively low and my number one priority was not met by any lga option. Silent operation.

I tried a clevo and under load the noise was simply too loud. My "crappy" g752vs is really silent playing Witcher 3 in ultra. And my wife complained about the previous one, and this one she even uses it.

I know my [email protected] can be up to 30% slower than the lga option, but for my use it doesn't really matter, since most games work really well with any new i5-i7 . I'm happy with my choice, and it was an informed one.

Enviado do meu MHA-L29 através de Tapatalk

 

People who can buy a damn 4 digit price tag machine but can't understand the basic laws of physics - "High Perf and Slim". Whoever thinks that's gonna happen are simply surrendering themselves to the "idiocy" or thinking it's performing top notch is ignorance which is a bliss for them. Plain simple fact, and the worst is the corporates trying the usual shiny clickbait buzzword B$ fallacy, People who are falling for that are miserable imho. Acting as a booster catalyst for these extortionist shenanigans pulled by the corporates.

That's why these communities exist to help newcomers and elite power users alike, and gain a bit more everyday so that they could help themselves & the others around them who doesn't have access to this or don't have passion towards delving a bit deeper than the superficial mediocre knowledge, not just hardware but software as well, this is digital era & people should atleast have a bit of background to get perf-longevity-ux satisfaction for their hard earned cash & fight for their place & force the corporates, instead of being succumbed to it..
(Nvidia Cockblock pre 347.88 / MSI trade in program / MS Winblows X relaxing policies by a bit / Alienware EC fantables fix for PGA 2013 machines, PSUgate & HS revision for BGA machines)

Different perspectives different personalities different requirements but being smart is a fundamental and commonsense aspect. Which does also reflect in many different things..

 

You do realise noise has less to do with the chip, rather the ability of the machine to dissipate heat, and designed operating temps of the manufacturer/user, right?
You could run 6700k in a machine that can breath at 3.8ghz and the fans won't even need to spin up to the point you'd sware it was passively cooled.

 

I have tested 6700hq BGA speed in bench like Wprime 1024M stress test. As well Cinbench. Max temp topped a bit over 31-32C degrees Yeah, You could use TS and make you a couple BGA power profiles if noise or lower power usage was a must!! As well maxed OC profiles for more Powa.

 

I know that. At the time of the purchase (september 2016) the only LGA options I had for a 17inch laptop with the new Pascal GPU's were the Clevos.
For the size I wanted, I think my only option would be the p7 series for an LGA. I wasn't looking for a 18+inch laptop.
The thing is, unlike most enthusiasts, the noise the laptop makes DOES bother me a lot. And clevo uses really ****ty fans on their laptops. Asus and MSI use better quality fans, and thus, a lot quieter. Since I'm not in pursuit of the best numbers in any given benchmark, I prefer a good machine that I can game on without headphones. My "****ty" Asus is quieter then my PS4 PRO under load.
So, knowing that, what would be my options?

And even now, there aren't that many LGA options for a laptop.