Optimus vs AMD Switchable? Required?

I'm looking for information about a medium laptop for gaming (15 inch, not hardcore gaming, just medium setting casual stuff like action games, NBA2K11/2K12, that sort of thing). Just not looking for something as "big" as the Asus G or Dell XPS lines. Saw that Optimus has tons of problems/complaints about not working:

NVIDIA Forums -> Optimus & Hybrid Graphics

Then I'm also seeing similar problems with AMD's switchable graphics Catalyst Control Center.

Does anyone have good experiences with either company? I wouldn't mind not having switchable/optimus at all. I can take an always on dedicated card if I must. Is it possible with the new Sandy Bridge i5/i7's? Or do they require switchable? Figured I'd also ask the gamers here. Thanks everyone

 

Hybrid is much better. Optimus just fails, so many problems.

 

Hybrid doesn't really exist right now except for AMD Fusion. They stopped shipping notebooks with Hybrid SLI capability.

Optimus and AMD Dynamic Switching are both pretty fail right now. Optimus works better than AMD, but still has problems. AMD's solution works pretty well for Direct3d apps, but does not work at all for OpenGL apps.

I would recommend that you find a notebook that supports fixed mode switching (the original kind).

 

Agreed. HP has figured out a BIOS trick for the dv6/dv7 and Envy lines that gives users the option of automatic (dynamic) or manual (fixed) switching. Dell is apparently working on the same thing for its Vostro line. Note that all of these notebooks are equipped with AMD GPUs. Such a thing is not possible with Optimus except on the Dell Latitude and Lenovo ThinkPad. In the case of these systems, you can disable Optimus entirely and have all applications route through the NVIDIA GPU. It's nice for compatibility but not for battery life. Manual switching with AMD's setup is the way to go.

 

The Llano laptops have asymmetrical Crossfire.

 

for graphic switching, I like AMD's implementation better, and am looking forward to they're asymmetrical crossfire. but overall I cant stand graphics switching as it introduces waay too many bugs,instabiities and issues with what I do on my laptops.

I have only played with 2 laptops with AMD's switching and have returned 9 laptops with Optimus, as it does not play nice with many professional applications even after a year of patching and fixes.

 

Llano IS Fusion

 

so is the Brazos APU which does not support it
Llano is the second generation of Fusion tech, we tend to differenciate them as there are massive changes between the two.

 

No matter how you say it, hybrid graphics are only available on a small subset of AMD notebooks and zero current Intel based ones.

 

I have the NVS 4200M Optimus card in my Lenovo T420. I play NBA 2K11 and I have not had any problems with the card. It runs everything on high at 1600x900 resolution.

 

Lenovo was smart and put a MUX in for the dedicated GPU, do you use the BIOS switch at all.

for me it was massive issues with Avid, Photoshop, Maya, 3DsMAX, CivEng etc all going insane due to the fnal output driver being the Intel IGP.

since im not much of a gamer I cant give much of an opinion there.

 

From what I've been reading, they do both seem pretty fail. I don't mind using one with a fixed mode, that's perfectly fine (I'm assuming that is picking 1 of the cards for everything, and if I wanted to switch, restart the computer?). If so, perfectly fine. The problem is finding one. I have no idea which models have that, as I'd like something relatively recent.

I saw that BIOS trick for HP briefly in the owners forum, but wasn't sure how well it worked. Generally not a fan of HPs, but if it's a relatively recent machine that actually has manual working switching, I may have to consider it. I don't really know which of AMD or nVidia is better, nor does it matter to me. If I can find a recent laptop that has working switch graphics (manual is fine!) then it doesn't matter which of AMD or nVidia it is.

 

My dv6tqe has it (and is a great machine btw). Basically, you set it to fixed mode in the BIOS, and then you can switch back and forth through the AMD Catalyst Control Center, or you can set it up in CCC like I have to switch to the dGPU when plugged in, and the iGPU when running on battery. Then, when I plug/unplug it, I get a dialog box that asks me to confirm the switch. When I do, the screen flickers once or twice and the GPU is switched. No reboots necessary.

 

if that model does that even I may have to pick one up to play with, hockeymass to you know if there are issues with OpenGL code passing to the discreet card or not? OPtimus has been bad for that as was earlier AMD/ATI switching even on manual

 

My little brother is looking for a inexpensive notebook with some gaming muscles and if indeed the switchable graphics are as painless as you say, then maybe he will buy the Dv6 or Dv7 Quad with 6770m.
Might also req. him the AMD Quad too, but i think all the tweakings (I love that) may be a bit too much for him with all the overclocking and undervolting.

 

Hockey: How is the heat when using the fixed mode? Does it get very hot? I mean, if this actually works, I may have to seriously consider getting an HP again (I had 2 bad Pavillion models back in the early 2000's).

 

I haven't tried running anything OpenGL yet, I know others have been fine running Minecraft and other OpenGL apps. I will test it myself tonight.

It definitely is a lot better than the dynamic switching that it came with.

If the GPU is under load, it can get hot, but it does that in dynamic mode too. The only times when it got hot enough to be slightly uncomfortable or hot enough for me to be concerned were when I was OCing it. I've reverted back to stock clocks for now.

 

thank you very much. and if you dont mind letting me know which apps you tested should you get time

easy to repaste and do you think that may help it? I know many consumer laptops come with a pretty sub par thermal paste application. it is nice to hear you need to OC to get it too warm though

 

OpenGL has problems in "dynamic" mode, but it seems to work fine in "fixed" mode. A bunch of us over at the HP forum tested it with Cinebench and we get exactly the results you would expect from a 6770M). If you know of a specific application that may be problematic and there is a free way to test it on the dv6t, one of us can probably do it for you.

 

I have a tube of AS5 coming in tomorrow, so we'll see. It can't hurt, I'm sure the pasting on there right now isn't stellar.

Right now it idles at about 50C, and running Furmark for 10 minutes on 1080p takes it up to about 80C (it generally stabilizes there after about 7-8 mins). This is with no external cooler and HP's Coolsense utility set to "Performance mode" (fans low and TurboBoost enabled). Setting that to "Coolest" drops things down by a decent amount.

 

thank you for the offer but I suspect it is MUCH easier for me to pick one up and try it than it is for you gents to get your hands on AVID M.C, Revit, MAYA, Mudbox etc.

I wont do heavy use of them on it but a small go to unit onsite where I dont need my rendering workstations would be nice and the discreet card appeals to me.

 

Both Fixed mode and Dynamic Mode ie Optimus have their pros and cons.

For me, I disliked the Fixed mode in AMD implementation with Intel Chipsets.
Since using an Intel chipset, AMD doesn't offer any support and using official AMD drivers on these get any problems. Tough Luck, for quite some time, maybe next year they figure out a way to install respective drivers separately.


Fixed Mode. Easier to use, easier to cause problems on the user side.

It drove me nuts finding background applications (even apps you didn't expect) that prevented the switch between power save and high power mode.

The AMD switch prevent detection is there to prevent weird video behavior when switching. But it uses a whitelist that can be only updated with a CCC update, at the moment.

It is not really fun to close all running applications and reload them again.


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Dynamic Switch ... is nice but if when it works. Or figure out how to get it working.
Harder to use, but less prone to user generated issues.

The big problem is finding the correct running application to utilize the high performance mode.
Some applications hides behind launchers or something else before calling their main portion somewhere else, which are a pain to find.

The Nvidia's whitelist gets updated once in a while, but it can done internally via Nvidia Control panel or by full driver update.

For the current generation of Optimus, I like that I could update both the Intel and Nvidia graphic drivers from their repected sites.
The older generation is supported as long they didn't deviate too much from the Nvidia's standard Optimus, though their workaround is much better than their AMD/Intel switchable.

I didn't face any problems with Opengl on Nvidia Optimus. Quite unfortunate that AMD dynamic switch forces Opengl on IGP regardless of power mode.
With the recent AMD bios update request, seem they won't catch up with Nvidia for quite sometime.

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For the average user, I recommend finding a traditionally designed laptop.
A laptop either dedicated for power saving, simple mobile workstation, or power hogging limited mobility gaming.
It is a whole less headaches for a better price.

 

I think this dramatizes the situation quite a bit. I haven't been prevented from switching yet in 2-3 weeks of normal use.

 

I'm pretty much thinking in the probability for any user who would try to dedicatedly run power mode on battery and switch to High Performance on AC.

Plus the default settings for power mixer is set to maximum battery life on battery which make it runs just as slow as the IGP on max.

 

Which is what I do.

 

I do it too. But you haven't faced a good year about it.


Your generation isn't much different either in the fixed mode, for now.

 

The price is more or less the same since with both Intel's and AMD's latest CPUs, you're paying for the on-die iGPU no matter what, it's just a matter of whether you can use it or not.

Also, I don't understand where you are finding headaches. The number of applications that require more than Sandy Bridge graphics is really, really small -- it's pretty much 3D gaming and professional programs. All that needs to happen when you use one of these is the pressing of one keyboard shortcut and another one when you are done with it. As far as I can tell, it does not prevent you from switching, although in fixed mode, the applications that were opened with one GPU may have graphical problems when switched (but they're perfectly fine once you switch back and you can always close and reopen them).

 

By the way, my scope is between Intel chipsets with AMD or Nvidia Cards.
AMD chipset with AMD Cards isn't much an issue to me since it is pretty much an in house system.

It does prevent if AMD detects a certain software or a certain 3d call.
I gotten it and getting it more often as time progress.

It's the issue with more and more random application deciding to render via 3D acceleration instead the old cpu render.


I helped a few posters with dv6 6xxx tracing this issue eventually resolved it when they are in fixed mode.
Asking why the button to switch doesn't do anything.

 

Don't get Optimus. Whatever you do, NO OPTIMUS. The first day i had my laptop= 7 hours (literally) to get optimus working.

 

So optimus sucks, ati switching also sucks, besides the hp bios fix. Is there no such thing as a middle class card with no switching? Seems I have to either get an integrated SB laptop or a beastly gaming laptop with no switching that's too bulky. How does every manufacturer miss this? Id take a shot with the dv6qte but I can't be 2 weeks waiting for it to build

 

You can get the DV6z at Best Buy and just turn off Crossfire, and just do manual configuration of which card to use. Or better yet get the Asus K53TA for $450. Video card and CPU is a little less powerful, but not by much.

 

A nice suggestion, but the processor is too weak and I can't go 1366x768 on a 15" screen (no offense of course). I do appreciate the suggestion though. Oh well, I didn't think I was being that picky.

 

Minecraft ran great, very smooth, as it should be.

 

So are there any other choices that anyone knows of with fixed graphics besides the HP dv6tqe? Not looking for something huge like the Asus G series or anything. Just something mid grade, fixed graphics. Don't need Optimus (I guess every nVidia card out now has this), don't need ATI switchable. Just regular graphics...

 

Well then consider the Sager NP8130, 15.6" 1080p screen, i7-2630QM, GTX 560m, 8GB DDR3 1333, ~ 2.5 hours battery. No switchable graphics, ~ $1300.

http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np8130-clevo-p151hm1-p-2973.html

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