Pascal: What do we know? Discussion, Latest News & Updates: 1000M Series GPU's

Something we will be able to do with them, at least, is play quantum break

 

Its pretty good for a third of the power draw.

 

1060N will definitely be BGA, at that TDP 65W mxm is not making here 200% sure of that, they are even kicking the full slotted system out of the window. So this GPU is worthless junk for me even to consider it exists, this is pascal gen 1, & the green greed milking machine here, add the absurd pricing too = garbage.

 

I hope we are not abandoned.. Wouldn't be a very smart move as the majority of the clevo desktop laptops sold are the P77xxZM/DM.. P775/P870 are maybe 10% of the entire mix... Would be very stupid not to get a 1080M version for the P77xxZM/DM...

 

Is there? I am not being facetious: I'm genuinely curious about this. How many people are there who will buy fewer products if MXM is completely eliminated? I'm sure that there are some (quite a few in this thread), but given that the existence of MXM undoubtedly requires additional validation and similar expenses, if most people are OK with BGA, it might be worthwhile to drop MXM even if some revenue is lost. Does anyone have any plausible numbers?

 

They will buy it anyway becuase there is no alternative. AMD doesn't exist in laptops.

 

The whole P77xZM and DM owners, Add the MSI GT72 owners, older EOL Alienwares ( M17x R4, M18x R2- sBIOS mod also, AW17, AW18), That's a large user base we have here with MXM3.0b spec, but the stupidity outnumbers the smart in this world...

 

Are you sure Clevo want reduced the sales whatsoever? If it's only 4-5% or something in this are, this will hurts all brand !!!

 

Looks like there are 3 versions of GP104 based mobile parts coming soon.

"GP104-200-A1 / GP104-PS-NB"
"GP104-725-A1 / GP104-PR-NB"
"GP104-750-A1 / GP104-PR-NB"

Source: http://www.geeks3d.com/forums/index.php?topic=4547.0

First probably refers to GTX 1070. The other two is either quadros or some type of M counter parts?

Are we gonna see DT 1070s and/or 1080M on similar machines?

 

If MXM isn't on offer I'd rather have nothing. I might as well get a console and start paying subscriptions to play games online at that point.

 

You've listed the brands that have them (which, at first glance, don't actually amount to too many people), but that doesn't quite answer my question. For example, the laptop I had before my current one had MXM, but I did not know of that while I owned it and I never had any intention of changing my graphics card until the latter died (at which point I looked into the process and decided to simply buy a new laptop). I think there are quite a few people out there who are in a similar situation: they may not even know they have MXM and would not care if it went away as long as the laptop worked the same.

I suppose Clevo would be against it, but Nvidia is much bigger and, if push comes to shove, its decision will almost certainly be the dominant one.

 

So much panic, doom, and gloom, with literally zero information available.

Chill out people. The manufacturers would not allow a changing of the price brackets. The idea that Nvidia could force such a change, is frankly pretty laughable.

 

What else do you think has been happening for the last 400+ pages

 

Not really that weird, I think Maxwell launched first in an 860M variant.

Sent from a 128th Legion Stormtrooper 6P

 

I would imagine mxm sales are low in contrast to the whole.

And let's be real, people loving mxm will keep buying notebooks, they'll just sell their old one. There's no way they can resist new gpu metal.

Sent from a 128th Legion Stormtrooper 6P

 

That 65W TDP of the mobile 1060 is impressive but we don't know how much it actually draws yet..

But for that generation Maxwell debuted first on desktop as 750 Ti, a mid-range card so the notebook front had to follow suit. This time round 1080 got dropped first, followed by 1070 and only then 1060 on the desktop..

 

I might be wrong here but I can't find a single UK based seller for Maxwell MXM modules. Any fellow Brit know what a 980M MXM module costs in GBP?


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You can try asking CEG or 3XS but I got mine from Hidevolution.. Only other people I would think of would be CEG...

 

Why is everyone thinking that there will be no standard MXM at all?

I think they (ODMs not Nvidia) will keep the MXM for the mid tier cards that could fit within MXM specs without sacrificing much (like TDP e.t.c) and have the higher end cards available as custom MXMs closer to theier desktop counterparts.

And to be honest i am okay with that. I mean i will rather buy a 1060 as 1060 instead of it being renamed to 1080m. I never liked the version of GTX 980 gimped to fit a standard MXM in some laptops.

 

Public doesn't have access to sales numbers for MXM based laptops.

But I'm sure nvidia has and can see that there are a lot of sales on this area.

That is the sad part...



I'm sure that someone will come through and do something for those of us who need performance on the go.

 

Because apparently Nvidia didn't send out any card specifications like previous

 

Yes because they are leaving it to ODMs to decide.)

And one thing we do know that there ODMs already have the cards and which seem to vendor specific (as woodzstack was having difficulty in using 'some OEM' in 'other OEM').

 

Guys... that is an incredible score for a 65 W GPU. We need to compare it to the previous generation of X60M GPUs, which are namely the GTX 860M and 960M - both of which have stock scores of ~4000 - 4500. This is more than a doubling.

Of course, those who have enough $$$ and super-high expectations would expect it to outdo the GTX 980, but an FS score of > 10000 is already good enough. Once mid-range, always mid-range, you high-enders...

Anyway, I'd pay Prema to prepare a vBIOS which would unlock the TDP of the 1060 in the future W230SS successor, so that I can get at least 85-90 W performance.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

I am happy that mid range is getting better and better. But optimus will always be lurking in the shadows, crippling our performance, and if that ain't bad enough, we're signed up for a full BGA course as far as things are concerned now.

Still, we should rejoice, Regardless of what 1080 mobile will be, and it's performance, if it comes with optimus, it's dead. That thing adds a considerable amount of problems to running games and benchmarks. I know that it's a Bios thing and that some machines have it removed, but many come with it installed. Let's hope that Clevo ones will come with high quality Bios and disabled Optimus for us to enjoy.

I'm still unhappy that 1080 is reduced in comparation to it's desktop variant.

 

Now to wait and see how the mobile 1060 will be priced compared to the 980M...

 

Well, 1070 was listed at 2000 euros, so expect 1060 to be ~1600, comparable to 980m when it first came out.

 

Thanks. But, wow... a mid-range mobile card costing the same as the highest-end mobile card of the previous generation. I think I'll stick with a 980M for quite a while in that case. A 23% improvement is not worth that kind of money.

 

If they gonna get this expensive, it's no better actually. At a price point of 1600$, one can get a 980m right now.

A 960m based laptop costs 950$ right now... At min specs... But still...

For someone who wants to buy a laptop with 4k + desktop CPU, the prices might be getting a bit high.

 

Well, desktop users have even more reasons to laugh at us now, considering we will be paying ridiculous €800-1000 for a midrange mobile 1060, when they spend 250 at best. I wish there was a third player in the market (or at least a second one at mobile space).

 

Yep. eGPUs are looking more attractive every day.

 

I can only imagine how small MXM 3.0b sales must be.

You can't even buy them in Australia. When I spoke to my local MSI reseller recently (Aussie business who has been selling non-Clevo gaming laptops forever), their staff had no idea what MXM update kits even were. The only reseller I can find online is HIDevolution.

Laptops with upgradable GPU's have been the domain of ultra-niche enthusiasts who need something more portable than a desktop, but have a limit on what they're willing to spend annually.

Realistically, that niche is now about to get even smaller, with many users likely happy buying a mid-range BGA (like the 1060) for damn-reasonable portable performance, then just connecting an eGPU for high-performance tasks when at home.

I'd be interested to compare sales of the Clevo p650 vs Clevo p750 models. But I know my local reseller (Metabox) has told me that the P650RE is, by far, their highest selling laptop.

Sucks for MXM enthusiasts.

 

listed where? and are we talking about the gpus themselves or machines sporting those gpus? the former would be quite insane... that would put the 1070 at a 65% price premium over the 980 mobile

Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10

 

I wonder why? Could you tell me? People like you who were all over the forum (and I would guess not only here) saying how bad AMD is, and AMD never again. Well, you got it. I don't see why you aren't happy about it. So SHUT THE F UP and "enjoy" what you have made!

Yeah, you could've been right if there wasn't already such case - grIntel. That's what happens when you let parts supplier control you. I wonder what would happen if Bosch started pulling Mercedes-Benz's strings for example. And by the way in case anyone lives in his/her bubble, dying CPUs are a thing now. There were always cases of sporadic CPU deaths (most of them forced though (*cough*overclocking*cough*)), but it is a THING now (like MUCH more widespread, so much it's not funny, make a guess if you don't have a repair shop near-by how you are going to replace a dead BGA CPU).

That's what I said a while ago. Getting a 1070, or even 1060 is fine, but paying 1080 prices is not.

MXM was designed with ease of replacement in mind first. The enthusiast used/abused that and upgraded their machines to the hell and back. You can see why companies are not very happy about that, hence the shift to BGA. There are of course the very few machines that would remain MXM for a while (at least I hope so) - the Mobile Workstations. Ease of replacement was, is and will be a thing in the business world, but they might tie-them-up, like Lenovo loves to.

 

@triturbo: 7970m was a success, but the last two amd mobile gpu are the same card (based on 7970m) with just some higher frequencies ... amd shoot themselves in the foot.

 

Have you tried to build something with no money? That's what happens. But everyone is giving nGREEDIA a pass when they rebrand because "there's no competition". You don't say! How that happened?! Everyone blaming and talking **** about AMD all the time and buying whatever nGREEDIA throws at them can lead no further than whatever we have here today. I was among the very few that did my best to be vocal that nGREEDIA is more or less the same when it comes to failures, drivers, rebrands, non-spec, whatever, and then some (GameSux*), but everyone kept pointing AMD and buying nGREEDIA. As I said - there you have it - ENJOY!

*The best part is that some people fail to realize that GameSux is not bad just for AMD users, it is bad for EVERYONE who can't buy every top-of-the-line (or at least new-gen) that nGREEDIA throws at them.

 

I never said that Nvidia don't do rebrand ... and i think that rebranding is a cancer. And yes, Amd don't have the same ressources. So it's harder for them to compete. But you are wrong, when AMD release good product, people buy them ... 7970m was a success. BTW, i really hope that they will have success with their zen Cpu and their new line of graphic cards. Competition is healthy, it avoid the too much higher prices (Nvidia) and the lack of innovation (Intel).

 

In fairness. You wouldn't drop from a top end card to a mid range card. No one would. You would be looking at the next gen equivalent to decide if that's a worthy upgrade. It's kinda like owning a 680m and then looking at the 965m and saying. It's not really worth the purchase. I'll stick with my 680m.
I think that's the 1060 is a worthy upgrade even coming from a 970m.
Right now 1060 is looking good with its firestrike score nearly 3x times better than my 960m. I was looking at 1070. But I wouldn't sniff at that especially if the "m" is dropped from the naming but given performance increase. I expected a 1070m to be in line with that anyway. If I can save couple hundred for the same thing. That's more money in my pocket.


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@triturbo
Don't say I did it because im not the NVIDIA Fan. I had these two craps called 6990M and I smell AMD fan here. Their last products are complete thrash. Bulldozer is total failure, mobile cards are rebranded and rebranded again. Polaris looks like a failure from what I read in reviews.

I just want competition in GPU market and there is no competition right now in laptops. Wanna buy new gpu? 780M/880M/980M for you. Wanna buy Radeon GPU? Buy old 7970M and let your luck decide whether your card should die or not because of silicon. Wanna buy newer one? Take 8970M/R9 M290 and pay GPU price for crossfire cable and use HWINFO to control your fans! If you don't then card will fry. And the final one. Wanna buy R9 M390x( aka Radeon R9 M295X)? Anyone even produces these on MXM?

So how the hell do you want me to buy this crap when I can have flawlessly working GPU? Im not a AMD fanboy to buy crap because it's from AMD.

I have no faith in AMD. Im waiting for Samsung or Qualcomm to buy them and then I think they will release something that will push Intel/Nvidia.

Right now Intel pushes BGA to everything and that's AMD's fault! Intel can do anything he want because AMD has low market share in desktops and no market share in servers at all. Are we responsible for this? No, they are for their stupid products that noone wanted to buy like Fury, Centurion, Opteron.

 

What is the best eGPU solution for laptops currently available for purchase?

Does it make sense to buy one of the supporting laptops and graphics adapters and get a desktop 1080?

Seems like Alienware has one and Razer might eventually have one but I couldn't find much else.

 

Alienware seems to have the most stable/performing one.

The razer core only works decently with a razer laptop, others have performance/instability issues.

 

It was listed in some European retailer store, you can search notebookcheck, it was there somewhere and it was the price for a laptop (with basic config though, no ssds, etc).

 

I still want a P870 for the desktop CPU, with something of an eGPU...

Any chances of getting a clean something?

 

You mean an eGPU for the p870dm?

All you can hope for right now is that someone manages to tweak clevo bios to support the razer core...

More eGPU solutions during Q4 of 2016.

 

Now, the worst problem with this, is that P870 is already quite heavy and bulky. Having to carry an eGPU is not the best thing to happen to laptops, especially when the laptop is heavy and big.

The only reason I'm pondering this is because I want that P870 with socketed CPU and GPU, especially for the CPU is better and the GPU doesn't have optimus and because 1080 is seriously good compared to 980 notebook.

But we wait in silence for what will come next.

 

You will be able to change the 980 with the 1080 anyway

 

Explain to me why everyone hates optimus? Wiki says its just software that switches between integrated gpu and nvidia dpu based on how demanding the application is. That seems to me pretty benign.

 

Optimus is terrible. Nobody likes it except marketing guys.

It basically insulates Nvidia dGPU in a jail, only allowing it to communicate with the rest of system via Intel iGPU.

This causes all sorts of troubles, both because of bugs and also some things you see being advertised as Nvidia GPU features simply do not work with Optimus. You do not get the "full Nvidia GPU experience" as Nvidia intended.

Examples of problems:

- all notebooks with Optimus have terrible diagonal tearings for anything running in windowed mode (games, applications, browsers)
- G-Sync does not work
- VR headsets do not work
- limited resolution + refresh rates when connecting external displays
- extra latency
- many games / applications have troubles being run on Nvidia dGPU and instead just want to run on Intel iGPU
- if you are developer, it causes tons of headaches (pretty much universally despised in graphics dev community)
- any problems are incredibly hard to solve as the process involves cooperation of Nvidia + Intel + Microsoft + notebook OEM

Basically it's a misfeature that mostly exist just because marketers do not understand that people who buy notebooks with powerful Nvidia GPUs (as opposed to majority which just get weak Intel GPUs) would want to really use those GPUs and instead they cater to shallow reviewers who like to tabulate notebooks by battery lifetime.

 

It never works as intended. For example, I know people complaining about Final Fantasy XI having severe issues with Optimus based laptops. Because it's such an old game, Optimus deems that it doesn't require more than the integrated gpu, and thus leads to extremely poor performance.

I'm sure other people can give you even better examples as to why Optimus is undesirable, but this is my number one go to example as I spent 8 years playing that game and I know it very well.

 

My understanding is that Optimus reduces GPU performance by about 5% (e.g. when comparing 3DMark Graphics Scores, I think it's about 5%), and it completely removes the ability to overclock your display - I overclocked my display of my laptop from 60Hz to 78Hz, which I can do because my laptop is able to disable Optimus and run directly from the GPU. In Optimus mode the GPU sends data to the graphics processor of the CPU before the information is displayed on the screen - this is what reduces framerate and disallows overclocking of the screen.

EDIT: oh yeah, and some things regarding the desktop are better accelerated by using the NVidia GPU directly - for instance using the Windows in-built photo viewer, it's snappier & quicker to flick between photos when on discreet graphics - I think the photos get saved in the fast VRAM instead of the system RAM.

 

also SLI doesnt work.