Piracy = Console Fanboyism?

So. this topic has been discussed to death, and while some of us PC users such as myself are trying to lobby Capcom into releasing some of their newer and upcoming games on PC (See: DMC5/SSF4:AE/MvC3..etc), there is the typical consoler response:

"PC = piracy = bad", "consoles=sales=good"...thus no games for PC users cause we are the Black Pearl.

I can't believe how many people actually think like this these days. Some dude even suggested publishers should abandon every system thats a pirate haven. Umm..that means no games would be released on any system. The ps3 has become a pirate ship as of recent, and the xbox and wii were always free so...

I'm starting to believe that this is typical console fanboyism now...

Urbandictionary says:

 

All the console games are on the same trackers too ... and 'modchips' and their softwares gets updates as needed

But yep .. most console players lack in iq and just go out and buy ...

 

Its a legitimate discussion guys, OP is not promoting piracy and lets keep it that way. The thread title was just a little strong so i changed it a bit.

Its true PC gamers are missing out because of this whole piracy thing, but it should even out again when consoles get cracked easier and easier.

I still dont understand how console gamers can play fps games using a gamepad.

 

for me the gamepad is good in fighting games or slash and hack type of games, in fps, well the mouse if faster and more simple. also there's a game pad in usb connection just in case someone likes to use it in fighting/slashing games.

 

I have friends who i see playing an fps on console and go O_O. How do you do that. I try it with a gamepad and my kdr is like 0 lol.
Also I've heard for the COD series at least, that consoles have aim assist.

 

I am mostly doing my gaming on the PS3. I am a big Bad Company 2 and Call of Duty fan. I bought my PS3 right before the slim was launched and started playing Killzone 2 which has a controversial layout of the buttons and really weird analog control. Right after i adapted to the gamepad, going back to the mouse seemed impossible but as it turned out, switching back to the mouse is just like riding the bike.
As far as the piracy issues, I believe every gamer feels the need of authenticity when playing and obtaining it is far easier on consoles. You see, games behave differently on PC whilst the xbox or the playstation will always render the same quality, thus eliminating the worrying thought of not being able to run the game with max details or with steady framerates(for most of us). Besides this we should have in mind that the consoles offer unique online services each and an official achievement system. While the game may not be so different regardless the platform the user interface and the experience is mostly changed. This affected my mentality over piracy. My PS3 taught me to cherish a game and devour it, helped to experience it completely, while the PC that's just waiting for a cracked version will always lower the game's value. I am not a console fanboy, I like playing games on the PC but since I've experienced the comfort of the PS3, the mouse and the keyboard just aren't rewarding anymore.

 

I think the baseline is:
- Publishers prefer consoles over PCs because they have higher revenue with the consoles.
- Piracy is blamed and I think it's a significant factor: piracy on PCs is almost risk-free, while on consoles you can get banned (well, nowadays only on 360 since the PS3 situation is a chaos at the moment).
- Couple that with the fact that the amount of PCs able to do gaming is comparable to at least the 360+PS3 amount of consoles (and yet the lower selling ratios on PC)... and well, its not hard to put 2 and 2 together.

So to summarize: no, I think piracy is not related at all with console fanboyism.

Just my two cents guys.

 

As it is written above. Consoles are on same way. I've just talkted to a friend which is intrested in PS3. I was going to ask if PS3 had wireless networkcard and he said yes. But also informed me that a frimware was on way to PS3 and it now possible for PS3 users to simply copy games down to HDD and return the game to the shop. Well ....

 

There are many reasons (disclaimer: I am not psychic and the reasons I give may not be the real ones, because publishers don't usually say WHY they don't put things on PC) why game publishers don't push games to the PC anymore.

Some were already covered (lozanogo for one), but I'll list everything I think is related.

1. Less risk of DRM being cracked. It took over 4 years to crack the PS3 fully. The 360 still requires hardware mods for the most part AFAIK. Most PC games are cracked before they're released.

2. No need to optimize for multiple sets of hardware, aside from the very few differences between models of a console (PS3 and 360 are relatively similar and operate on similar architectures). In PC land we have, just for video cards: NVidia, AMD/ATI, and Intel. Those are just the major three (with Intel being far behind the other two in power). That's not getting into models, generations, etc. Each card is slightly different even between manufacturers (AMD/ATI and NVidia only make the GPU, the rest of the card is manufactured by a separate entity). That's not even starting on audio, cpu, etc. DX and APIs mitigate this somewhat, but things have to be at least optimized for both AMD and NVidia for them not to suck. This takes work.

3. There are many incentives to a locked in market. Publishers have to buy/'earn' their way into the console market for their work to be signed and operate on the console (Microsoft's Indie market is actually pretty nice, but AFAIK Sony has NEVER been friendly to the non-major-publisher world). This private club means that publishers can maneuver the market to their desires, after they establish themselves they can prevent upstarts from gaining a foothold by asking the console manufacturer to keep them out. This kind of crap has been going on since the NES and before.

4. Once a publisher gets the feel of a console, they can develop their one game engine and only have to ever make minor tweaks to it to puke out game after game after game, because until a new generation console comes out (and for years after) they don't have to worry about the hardware changing much. It costs money to get new developer kits, set up licensing, hire new programmers, train the old ones, research into optimizing games for new hardware etc etc etc. Once you're entrenched in a console market it's a bit difficult to dig out.

5. Consumer (ech, I just realized how used to using this word I am instead of customer) market. How many people do you know that will buy a gaming PC? Most people only look at the upfront cost of things when it comes to choosing a device. PS3 and 360 are now around $200-400 upfront, a good gaming PC will cost anywhere between $700-sky. Buying a PC means researching it or building your own, and most people shouldn't be allowed to be near their mouse, much less the power cords or god forbid the inside of the casing. Playing games on a PC means that you have to keep drivers current, sometimes dig through thousands of forum posts to find the one driver model that works with that one game and switching between drivers to make more than one game work. With a console an average Joe can walk in, buy a box, go home and plug it into his tv and (most of the time) it'll work out of the box (I have a funny story about the first night I bought a 360, but that's for another post). Buying a console ends up being more expensive in the long run in some ways if you need controllers, an HDTV or those darn $60-140 games (I have NFC why the PC market decided to follow this trend and stay equal pricing with the console versions, console versions much more of the price goes to the console maker than in the PC but MEH). In the end it comes down to the fact that the console babies and insulates it's owner for the most part, handling all the hard work. It demands the updates when they come out, the games tell you automatically to update or else, blah blah blah. More Joes are buying consoles than PCs and console games than PC games, and the publishers go where the market is.

TL;DR Until the market demands more PC games, the publishers will continue to develop mostly for consoles. There are many of us here that could care less about consoles, but the vast majority of people playing video games out there are playing FarmVille, iWhatever games, Madden on PS3/360, or it's kids/older adults playing the DS and the Wii because those systems are more enticing for those that are deeply immersed in the PC world. When I say FarmVille first I mean it too, the vast majority of people on PCs these days are playin' it. It's a travesty, but it's true.

 

Black ops does have a fair amount of auto aim that seems to change the controller sensitivity in a way to keep you pointed in the general direction of an enemy. The whole game in general is pretty dumbed down; the weapons are very powerful when compared to some PC FPS's (like bad company 3), and many of the guns have basically no recoil so people can actually get kills with a gamepad.
In all honesty playing that game with a controller is like trying to perform surgery on someone with an axe. It is sluggish and innacurate, and when you have 4 player multiplayer on one console there is horrible input lag (that my console playing friends don't realize) worse than even the worst non gaming wireless mouse. Its really horrible when compared to playing an FPS on a computer with a G700 mouse.

 

PC gamers will buy a game if it is good and is not plagued by a bunch of bugs/issues. However, if a game doesn't get stellar reviews or has a ton of bugs/issues on release you can bet a large portion of gamers will pirate the game because they don't think it's worthy to actually buy it. Others will pirate the game just to try it out BEFORE they buy it. This is especially prevalent now that most developers do not release demo's of their games on the PC, so PC gamers have no chance to try out the game before they drop $50-$60 on and can't return it. Hence they pirate the game.

If you ask me, PC developers have brought piracy onto themselves.

 

Also there's the issue of no returns whatsoever for PC games in general - you can only return unopened or physically damaged games to bestbuy for example, but if you decide you really don't like a console game you can either take it back or, failing returns, resell it to gamestop/friends/someone else and get at least something back.

It's a pretty dumb piracy cycle for the PC:
DRM (cd keys, ubisoft drm, whatever) > Unable to return games > Piracy > (GoToStart)

DRM is partially builtin to consoles, but people (steam) have finally figured out that people actually dislike having to stick a disc in to play a game, especially if you've already installed some pretty big files on your HDD. I'd wager that if you saw console games move away from disc media you'd see their public piracy rate skyrocket.

 

hakira and usapatriot have hit gold .

 

JaiaV's post is the truth, and no one can deny that, as much as you may love your pc as much as I do. The fact of the matter is most gamers are on consoles, and they don't want to spend 500+ for a pc, its too much effort, time , and money.

The other problem is most people, a.k.a the average consumer couldn't tell very well the difference between crysis and MW2 on consoles, nor do they care. DX11 is barely enough of a leap over the last GPU leap, most people enjoy dx9 still on their consoles. Us hardcore gamers can look at a ps3 and right away see the low resolution image, never mind bloated textures and all sorts of cutbacks, but the fact of the matter is for most people this looks good enough. UNTIL there is a huge leap like there was from ps2 to ps3.

Steam also needs a better interface I feel, it looks dated and can be hard to navigate, plus restating driver updates, piracy and so on.

 

Here's a fact about PC gaming:

-It requires a fairly competent user

As I struggle to find fellow PC gamers at work and in my area, I've met just as many competent computer users: ZER0.

My son was handling and operating his Wii when he was 3 years old. Apparently, the 30 year old guys in my office are only slightly more capable than my 6 year old because they have learned how to operate slightly more "sophisticated" hardware: Xbox and PS3. Most of them still require tech support to come install a mouse.

I partially blame this one Windows being "not so user friendly" for the past decade and being riddled with problems. The rest, I blame on there being too many morons in this world that businesses now must cater to.

Be proud my fellow tech users, you are part of the elite and rare portion of society capable or operating some with more than 3 buttons, 0 options, and 2 inputs.

 

Stop being silly.

The fact is, console gamers don't spend the money on a PC because it's not their hobby. It's not that console gamers are particularly stupid or dumb, it's just that they have other priorities that they put over gaming. They see a computer as something that is used for playing their Farmville, or or keeping in touch with friends and family members. Nothing more.

I mean, heck, how many PC gamers care about cars and how they work. For most, a car is just something that gets us from point A to point B, nothing more. A lot of car enthusiasts probably look down upon people who play video games, because they think it's a waste of time.

What about gun enthusiasts? Certainly, if they wanted, many of them could have the intelligence to become a BIOS modder and hardware modder, but they don't have the time or money for both their guns and technology. Guns would have priority in their minds.

I've actually recently considered buying games for my Xbox 360 again, because other things good and bad have taken over portions of my life that I would usually dedicate to playing video games on my PC. I rarely have the time to sort out issues with games, get them running optimally, and because of other things happening in my life of late, I no longer have as much money to spend on GPU upgrades, new rigs, and a new $2000 gaming laptop every year.

The point I'm trying to make is that just because console gamers game on consoles, it doesn't make them dim, or slow. Most of the time, gaming just isn't a massive part of their lives.

 

Overly sweeping generalizations look bad. Most people have more than a few interests so it's not so cut and dry. I for example take an interesting in aviation, cars, and computers.

What I'm trying to get at is, the console community remains largely ignorant of PC gaming. Most console gamers think the only thing you play on the PC is WoW and that you need a $2000 PC to run it. So, you may say this is a generalization, well, from personal experience I can tell you that almost every console gamer I've met has a warped perception about PC gaming.

PC gamers understand the console way, it's just that console gamers largely don't understand the PC.

 

Nail on head. A lot of console owners are quite literally stuck technologically in whatever year their consoles were made in - the $2000 gaming rig might have been more common in 2006, but you can easily build a desktop for 1/4 of that now. And realistically, that $2k rig purchased in '06 is probably still chugging along today on dual 7900's/9800's or something similar - you don't have to upgrade your gpu or some part every year or so, this is another sweeping generalization about pc gamers. Lots of pc gamers just upgrade when necessary, when their stuff can no longer run the latest games at nice settings, which happens to be about every 2-3 years. If graphics settings were more or less locked to console standards you wouldn't need to upgrade until 2015!

This point actually lends itself towards piracy. If you don't know how to pirate a game, you won't (can't). Console owners enjoy the ease of use of their systems; you turn it on, stick the game you want to play in and go. The hardware or firmware hacks required to pirate on consoles are way beyond the average console owner.

 

Pirating is happening on all systems (even cell phones). I think manufacturers are using piracy as a way to get out of making PC games, when the real reason is they don't want to have to stick to the stricter rules that us PC gamers set forth.

I've read a few articles from game developers saying its tough to develop for the PC as PC gamers are not as forgiving of mistakes or bad decisions as console gamers are. In addition, we expect a full game developed on PC, rather than a quick simple port, which takes a lot more time and money. Unfortunately, the way the gaming industry is these days, they are always in such a rush to get the game out of the door we're lucky if they even bother doing any testing for bugs let alone take the time and money to develop a proper game for each system.

There are so many things wrong with the gaming industry right now (and even the gaming hardware industry), but yet, they seem to only want to focus on piracy and ignore the rest of their problems.

All of that being said, the PC gaming industry is far from dying. Its thriving and growing rapidly right now.

 

Same goes for PC pirating. Its difficult, it doesn't always work the way you intended, and there are a lot of steps involved usually.. Way more than the average PC gamer can handle. And even in the end, you still can't use a lot of game features if you're using a pirated version. So theres huge incentives against pirating. I really think PC game pirating is on the fall as more and more games focus less on single player and more on developing a rich multiplayer (which pirated games usually can't play) and as Steam becomes more popular and people realize that you can regularly get the games you want to play for $20 or less on Steam sales.. There is literally no decent reason to pirate games anymore.

 

I wouldnt call PC piracy too difficult by any means. its simply the matter of downloading the game and a crack. The Ps3 seems to have recently become like that as there is a custom firmware out that lets you run any game on the console no hardware modding needed. That being said, I do believe that steam and its sales are a great alternative to piracy. Many of my college friends who dont have money to spare for new games (see $70 games like Black ops) will end up pirating them, but say if the said game goes on sale for $15 on steam, they will end up buying them and also enjoy further features such as multiplayer and such.

 

It depends on the game. I can't go into specifics on this forum but many times its several steps to get a pirated game working.

 

I have never seen so much truth spoken in one topic. JaiV, daranik, and patriot practically nailed it.

From what I've seen at my school it just seems like people don't care enough about gaming. This goes hand in hand with the car analogy of going from point A to point B rather than being a car enthusiast who focuses on the much finer points.

 

The PS3 is probably the easiest platform to pirate on now that there is a backup manager that can basically just run back ups of games off the HDD. Unless Sony releases new hardware there is nothing that can be done, the hack was that deep.

That being said, the release of cheap, inferior games to make a quick buck is what has killed the gaming industry(from a PC gamer perspective), not to mention the major bias towards consoles from developers because of said "security against piracy".

I am loyal to two companies that have never disappointed me with the games I have purchased, one being Bioware and the other being Relic, SCEA is up there as well actually and DICE now because of Vietnam. Companies that build quality games year in and out and listen to their fanbase have my loyalty and have my future business for that reason. If even 1/4 of developers were not lazy and cheap(could be publishers holding back full potential?), I would be buying a hell of a lot more games.

THQ and Relic have got it exactly right IMO, the original DOW 2 was released at $49.99 I believe, and the next two expansions(Chaos Rising and the upcoming Retribution) which featured gameplay tweaks, a new campaign(5 in Retribution), and a new race was released for an appropriate price at $29.99, I will GLADLY pay that.

As most of the others have said, the gaming industry has brought this on themselves by taking advantage of "name brand" game franchises and completely milking them dry, instead of being creative and innovative, which is what I thought being a game developer was all about. I don't mind franchises, but when every year or two just basic re-skins of the first game is released with no changes made to game play or graphics(my glare is burning through your face and hopefully injuring you internally Bobby Kotick!), I wonder why im paying full price? I would gladly pay for re skinned games at a reduced cost(between $20 and $30), but we all know greed will outweigh all else in this day in age.

 

this topic has reminded me to buy a playstation 3 before they patch up the holes in the recent exploit to allow unsigned code. Going to "buy" every game for the playstation 3!

thank you OP!

 

One of the reasons i see is the cost!

I spent $1100 on the laptop in my signature.. i hv a crappy graphics card n cant enjoy any of the latest games.. Instead i could've bought a basic laptop for $700 n spent the rest on a console n a decent tv.... To the average consumer I guess it seems like the easier option.. It also guarantees a certain level of performance for a long time..

Having said that the experience of playing on a gaming PC is next to nothing! Which is y there are so many of us who would rather play on the pc!

 

Thing is, if you turned your settings down to what they'd be on a console, that system would play anything just fine. PC gamers just enjoy better graphics because we can - ask a pure console guy who doesn't use pc's what AA and tesselation and HBAO are and he will think you are from the moon.

I can't see cost as a factor because, at the end of the day, everyone who owns a console also owns a computer. When you are weighing a crappy "daily task use" PC ($350), console ($350?), a decent TV ($400), it's almost-required-accessories/addons, subscription fees (xbox only)... not to mention the inherent higher cost of games and DLC's... vs a moderately budgeted desktop build that can cover ALL your needs, for maybe half the cost. It IS easier to own a console, I'll give you that for sure, as well as a sort-of on the performance/lifespan expectation. You know that your console will be able to play any game released for it within the next 10 years, but you also (may not) know that the games will not really improve much visually over that time.

One of the few things I really like about consoles that is missing from pc's is the non-online multiplayer. Sure, you don't use it that often even if you have it, but I'm sure a lot of people have good memories of having your friends over and having a blast with super smash bros. Though with the way the games have been trending, local multiplayer is dying out in favor of online too.

 

Ya exactly for the cost n longevity its good value for money!

n ya i know the quality i get is similar to the console but its never as assured..

another Prob is that any game with no/not too interesting multiplayer is a cause for piracy.. which i can kinda understand.. i mean i don want to pay $60 for just a 10-12hour game which i may or may not replay..

The same prob exists on the console but renting games has made is so cheap n easy that y would u want to pirate? its easier not to most of the times..

 

Lots of ignorance and general PC fanboism in this thread .. heh. Not that it should be any different on a PC gaming forum, but anyways.

PC piracy is so to say "killing" it's indrusty. You don't see multimillion sellers on PC as often as you see them on consoles. Very few times a PC games sells good is when it's from a very old franchise or just really popular, such as a new expansion for World of Warcraft, a new StarCraft or something similar in popularity.

PC is the easiest platform to pirate on. Period. For 99% of the games all you need to do is switch out original exe file with a modified one and you're done.
Some, rare games do need a DRM bypasser but that is used truly rarely.

To pirate on PS3 you need to install custom firmware on your machine, what has (with current software) around 35% to brick your machine when flashing the LV2 system files. Let us not forget that most of the PS3 units have even greater risk of bricking it, depending on the NAND file size. Only one hardware revision is so-so almost safe to install custom firmware onto.
Now the next step - to pirate a game you need a modified eboot for it. Not all games have it and not all games will ever have it. Means you cannot rip your own Blu-ray game and play it - but you need to start editing it. And if happens that the game has it's own protection then you can forget about it.
Now the last step. Forget online play with your console. Whenever you launch an unsigned code it will leave a log file and your PS3 will communicate with Sony servers even if you are not logged in to PSN network - just being connected to the net is enough. According to the current talks Sony is collecting the hardware ID's of all the consoles that have run an unsigned code and will also do mass-bannings of consoles. They will ban your PSN accounts tied with your PS3 - this also includes all the PSN stuff and games you bought. And they can do just like Microsoft - disable hardware features. Like MS disabled the ability to install a game on HDD when your console is banned from Live.

As a side note, DigitalFoundry analyzed and theorized what else Sony can do - and a frighetning idea is that they can AND have the legal right to disable your console fully. If you are connected to the net - Sony can remotley disable your PS3 complteley.

Now for Xbox360.

You'll need to do a hardware modification - even if you just want to flash the drive. It's not a simple 1-2-3 that every kid can do actually either. Also, theres'a big chance of messing it up.
Unless you play SS patched games - you can forget about online play as well. New games have newer security wave types and should you be unlucky enough to play a recent game, pirated and online your console is on the list to be banned with the next ban wave.

Most, if not all *current generation* PC "exclusives" are being also developed to consoles and thus, slightly dumbed down visually/technically on PC (examples such as Deus Ex 3 or Crysis 2) and all this because it's simply not worth developing a big game for PC only. Yet it's totally fine and actually a very good idea to develop console-exclusives. Why? Because with even mediocre marketing they sell good. Even niche-games.

This is the very same reason why CryTek made Crysis 2 a multiplatform game, because you - average PC gamers "test" games out, which is your excuse for pirating and in the end you never buy the game for whatever reasons .. aka you actually "didn't like the game" or it "didn't run well enough" or the game story mode was "too short".

There is piracy on the consoles. Yep, no question about that. Yet it's not even 1/100th of the level of piracty on PC.

 

Thanks for finally someone else trying to put logic onto the topic (certainly not the only one).

I agree with all your points. Just to add a little, Extra Credits (from the Escapist) this week discussed the topic of Piray in general. It is a short video but summarizes the strongest points. Here's the link:
The Escapist : Video Galleries : Extra Credits : Piracy

 

So putting a package of files on a usb stick, inserting said usb stick into the PS3 and installing the package files is difficult? I find that no different than installing an internet browser or a music player like iTunes. Its that simple. You could then head to a video store(closest to me is 10 min walk) rent a couple games and voila, you now actually have backups of these. No waiting days for game to download and knowing it may or may not work depending on your hardware.

Now at this point in time the backup managers emulate signed codes, which is why the hack in unfixable unless new hardware is released. The root key was discovered, which was located deep within the CELL processor, and this is why it is unfixable without new hardware, it was hacked at the most primary levels. Sony can continue to release new firmware, but im certain the hackers will just continue to patch and it will be this continual back and forth.

Just to confirm I am only stating facts and not suggesting I take part in or promote piracy.

I agree with your general statement though, the PC gaming community hasn't given the gaming industry a real good reason to specifically develop games just for it, and honestly there is no point in not including consoles, they make the most money and the primary concern of most publishers is money.

I own both a PC and PS3 and when I was fed up with the pile of rotting donkey poo that was MW2 for PC I moved to the consoles, where I had a hack free and competitive environment(although the majority of console gamers are much slower in regards to FPS in general), until these security exploits made it possible for any hack to be just enabled without consequence. I was watching my roommate play MW2 yesterday and 2 out of every 3 or 4 games was a hacked server in which the dev console was enabled, allowing for basically everything to be controlled. In the games where there wasnt a hacked server, an aimbotter or waller would be in their place. The PS3 is in complete shambles right now, unless new hardware is released they wont pull out of this one on top IMO.

 

To the OP, piracy has nothing or VERY LITTLE to do with the shift to consoles. I've been gaming on PC's since the early 90's and since the late 90's publishers and devs have been pushing consoles at the expense of the PC. I have done the same over the years, I now prefer consoles over PC gaming.

It's less maintenance for the dev or pub to bring their game to a console as it's generally a closed system. Also over the years PC gamers (i.e. the sim crowd) didn't do themselves any favors by alienating the developers by demanding they get their game right. I used to watch the back and forth arguments between the devs and users. Around the late 90's early 2000 many devs began pursuing the casual crowd and consoles. They were tired of the niche audience and minimal returns.

Why do I bring up the sim crowd? Because it's a funnel effect, if devs start to leave for another platform or audience others will follow thinking the PC platform is not what it used to be. Wrt to Capcom why develop for the PC when their target audience is already the casual crowd they can be found on the consoles.

To their credit they do bring out a few of their titles on the PC and while it's selective it's probably more to do with testing the waters to see if their titles are selling on the PC.

 

Repeating game devs' great thoughts like parrots that piracy is the mother of all evil and the only reason to make less games for PC is like to jump from a highscraper because the president said so. Start using your brains, don't let yourself to be brainwashed.

Cracking games on Xbox360 is getting much easier than cracking a PC game. Only in the last week 2 friends of mine were eager to inform me that they bought refurb Xboxes for less than $100 and cracked them for an hour. And that's without them knowing each other and not exchanging "know how", just reading stuff on Internet. And we're talking only installing software, no need for any hardware mods like some people mentioned. Now they've downloaded tons of games and everything works like a charm. The only game they both had problems with was NFS Hot Puruit.

One of them mentioned that he's renting games and ripping them for less than 10 mins.

I never had a console of any kind. Been in PC gaming since I first got my 8 bit computer and played bunch of games like Bolo, Karateka, Moon Patrol, Norad and many, many more. Then I had 286 at 20 Mhz, 386 DX - 40 Mhz, 486 - 133 Mhz and many more. A week ago bought and Xbox gamepad for the PC and still can't believe how useless this thing is. It's not even close to keyboard + mouse.

IMO console gaming in most part is for lazy game devs and lazy users. That's why the game dev companies like the console market. Easy to make games for and easy to sell games to. Similar to why the government wants everyone to be dumb by totally abandoning public education and making the costs of higher education inaccessible for 99% of the people. Dumb people are governed easily, same with the consoles....

 

quick tidbit but SOE released that DCUO sales were 52/48 share PS3 C userbase and SOE claims that this has been the fastest selling product they've pushed, showing that it's a near 50/50 split. PC's are far from a dying breed.

 

MMORPG's are not native or familiar to consoles. Console users are not accustomed to paying monthly subscription fees for playing their games (other than XBox Live).

 

MMO's are also severely hampered by the lack of a proper keyboard (most MMO's made to work on console ignore the keyboard proper). Think trying to play FFXI on the PC *shudder*.