Portable PS3?

We have seen demonstrations of Sony/Toshiba's Cell processor integrated into notebook designs. When can we expect to see notebooks with this technology for sale?

A: Notebooks that include the Cell technology were announced at CES 2008 and we expect to have them in the marketplace this summer.



This was taken from the interview on notebookreview.com's homepage


Doesnt this tel us that the CELL actually has compatibility with OS such as windows?

I thought everyone was telling my how hard it is to even program it...

I always thought it was really good... but there was so much downtalk I now think it sucks... but this news kind of brought my hopes up very high

Anyone think this will have success at all?

CELL + 9XXX sli be the key to portable gaming

 

It'll probably take extensive patching to get it working. Even then, I bet there will be all sorts of errors. Given how much extra time is needed to program for it I don't see how it could successful.

 

What are you talking about???? that made no sense to me whatsoever.

And any CPU + GPU combo is portable gaming, since you can play games on it.

 

Beatsiz essentially wants to play PS3 games on his notebook without the use of an emulator, of course with his amazing english skills and wonderful choice of titles he's conveyed his point brilliantly to all readers.

My take: Trying to get one machine to copy all of the unique characteristics of a different hardware architecture is going to take serious work, secondly why the hell would Sony want to lose PS3 sales if one of their marketable points gets emulated by the PC?

 

The cell is a junk processor for things like running on OS. Quite frankly the x86-64 CPUs are much more effective as they were designed for OS operation. Cell was designed for something else (and it ain't gaming).

 

Thank you for clarifying that. And the reason he asked this is because of this thread. And if he reads it, it says a PS3 emulator won't come out for a long long time.

 

im not talking about emulation

TOSHIBA states they run the cell in laptops.... why and how do you turn that into emulation?

Well if toshiba claims so... why is the CELL NOT good for OS like vista?

And the cell was meant for special programs etc... it was just put in the PS3 so it would look special and fancy lol

 

The Cell processor was designed for big number crunching, and requires programmers to optimize their programs differently than a "normal" processor. That's why it's harder to program for the PS3. You can definitely put it in a laptop, but ask what's easier:

1. Have every single program be optimized two different ways, teach every programmer how to program for the Cell processor, or

2. Not use the Cell processor.

 

I'll take #1 for 400 please

 

He's not talking about emulation when the whole point of him posting is about combining 9 series Nvidia GPUs with Cell hardware for gaming, seems like a contradiction to me. The Cell for the PS3 is not to make the PS3 look "special and fancy" rather it is the core around which PS3 games are programmed and run on.

Forget about seeing the PS3 processor in laptops, go play your PS3 and bring it with you if you're that addicted to the console. Laptop processors are built differently and will remain so. You might see some features of the cell processor in the new laptops that are being hyped but they are a long way from being "notebook PS3s".

 

Cell is not an x86-64 or IA-64 processor, so it is incompatible with Windows.

OS's require, at least if you want it to work right, a bunch of hardware features the Cell does not have. The cell was designed, as mentioned, for number crunching. For specialized builds of Linux made just for scientific research...and quite frankly it was stupid to put it into a PS3.

 

so why would toshiba say they have the cell in laptops???? as a help to the primary proc?

 

Since when did "Notebooks that include the Cell technology" equate to a notebook equipped with a cell processor? Of course someone either didn't read the article properly or has difficulty understanding concepts which aren't in the native language (unlikely).

 

I believe most of you are missing the point of the cell processor in notebooks. It isnt meant as a CPU in the sense of a CENTRAL processing unit. From what ive seen from the demos at CES it's more of a specialized-PU, like a GPU or PPU. It would be equiped alongside the rest of the components.

Then certain programs can harness all that number crunchin power, while the OS is still left to the CPU/GPU.

 

Thank you that clarified it a bit.

English is my native language... and I guess I missinterpreted cell tech.

It was late at night... anyways...

What was the performance gain? How would it be a GPU ?

 

I take it then that what you're referring to is hardware similar to that of the Ageia physics processor (PPU), however the dedicated function the cell provides is supposed to be a large number of mathematical calculations in a short frame of time that windows-based CPUs are unable to perform.

How big is the dedicated unit supposed to be? Are current games even programmed to use this technology?

 

Not yet anyways. Its a totally different architecture compared to what's used now, but with the proper coding it would be possible. To say the truth, I highly doubt it'll be used for games, as the work required to code and the benefits wouldn't justify it. This would be used for more industrial software IMHO.

 

Considering how the Cell's trump card is its ability to number crunch, I wouldn't be surprised to see its laptop variant used in financial modelling programs and the like. No game released right now will tax the Cell's number crunching abilities nor are any available PC games built around the Cell's architecture.

Thanks for the info Ever.monk.

 

Isnt CELL technology completely different? what about heat issues? what about battery life?

the PS3 Cell gives out 28Ghz which on laptop means power of 14 laptops in 1 laptop! can u imagine that?

the PS3 has large 3 fans at its back & its thick.. laptops will lose their main purpose i.e 'portability' if they even manage to have a CELL arrangement.

other than that Price... who will pay for it? who will invest in the development?

It would be better to attempt making Quad cores for Laptops instead of CELL.

another thing i want to ask is . Whats the USE?

correct me if i am wrong but CELL is just not for Laptops.

 

Did you read ever.monk's posts at all? Cell technology in notebooks does not equal PS3 cell transplanted transistors and all into an oversized notebook. Apparently CES2008 has prototype models of laptops using SOME ASPECTS of cell technology in a dedicated processing unit, how this works with the different architecture and all is still unclear since no one knows what the new chip will be used for.

 

Here's a sight with some more info on the laptop and the exact implimentation of the whole setup. Toshiba developed their own engine to make use of the cell, and its all number crunching applications.

http://www.slashgear.com/ces-2008-toshiba-demo-spurs-engine-ps3-cell-cpu-in-qosmio-laptop-119586.php

Heres a link with a video of it all. http://crave.cnet.co.uk/video/0,139101587,49295004,00.htm

 

love the quotation ever.monk

the fact that the cell can perform rendering tasks faster than the core 2 duo is not impressive to me.

from what i can gather, the cell is 10 times as good at rendering and 3d than the core 2 duo. (that is an order of magnitude calculation).

but thats it. just 10 times. plus, you have to build your program for the specialized ps3 processor.

in everything else, the core 2 duo is many, many times faster than the cell. general purpose computing. thats why the core 2 duo itself costs about as much as a ps3.

now- if you are going to go to the effort to gain rendering performance, why not just run things directly on the gpu? its totally possible, nvidia showed that this is a possible direction to take things.

i mean, if i had the choice to have either a dedicated gpu or a cell, i'd take the gpu. the cell still isn't strong enough to render on its own. 3 hours to upscale 640x480 to 1080p is still too long to use in realtime. but, an 8400m gs (the cheapest current gen graphics card around) can already do this in real time.

i just don't understand why they would go this direction if there is already a developed, practical solution thats better...

maybe you want more rendering performance, though.

if you want more rendering performance, does it make sense to add a new processor with a new architecture, or does it make sense to add another gpu / get a more powerful gpu? the choice is clear to me.

 

But it allows SE to make their Real-Time CG graphics engine!

 

Isn't the cell only used a a coprocessor in the notebooks you were talking about?

 

Im afraid this a bit of a misconception too. What an 8400gs does is purely decode video that is already HD quality and makes it playable, it doesnt change the quality of the video any. What the article refers to is actually taking a video with lower resolution and "upgrading" it to a higher one. There's a big difference between the two.

The cell wouldn't be used to render 3d stuff. Sure its better than a C2D at it, but much worse than a GPU. What the cell IS better at than a CPU or GPU is mass number crunching.

Eg, recently the US Gov. (department i dont know) purchased 300 PS3's for research purposes using the cell. Wouldnt buying laptops be handier? I believe this is the kinda motivation behind Toshiba's laptop.

 

The Cell can indeed render 3d scene but the rendering is the type you do in autocad or 3ds max, not gaming.

It was the Air Force that purchased the PS3s as Cell blades cost thousands of $ vs 400$ for a ps3 ^^

 

It's usefull for games when you get as much money as SE and you can use it for real time CGs

 

I have heard of multiple universities and programs/projects clustering PS3's like theres no tomorow since $400 per PS3 vs $XXXX for XEON processors... which then need all the extra stuff...

 

Toshiba have taken the Cell CPU usually found in a Sony PS3 and put it into a concept Qosmio G45 laptop, giving the machine a total of six processors (the original Core 2 Duo is still there, plus the four 1.5GHz synergistic processing elements in the Cell)

This does say... taken the cell...

Which in english means... taking the cell processor... and putting it into a laptop

And the Qosmio G45 laptop doesnt look all that big at all... and 3 hours vs 24 for upscaling 640*480 to 1080p is fantastic... And now think about a die shrink + redesigned architecture = SUPER CELL ? And with the ability to do things normal procs can do...

AMD + sony + Toshiba... = Intels worst nightmare and AMD's uprising

And if they put the cell in a laptop... this would indicate hack hack hack it so it can play PS3 games... and then PS3 portable will become possible... and who knows what sony has to offer?
PSP... meh... old... PS3? Big, requires HD screen for good use... how about PSP2 with the cell or a PS3 portable... its an attempt...

 

Dream on, you're still pushing your point on "laptop PS3s" without the actual console or use of emulation. If the PS3 was solely run on the cell processor you would still need the rest of the parts to make PS3 games work on a windows-OS based notebook PC. You've also missed the part about Toshiba having to create a separate engine to actually utilise the fancy Cell architecture.

Of course Beatsiz's opinion must always count since he's never wrong and has the right to make claims without any hard evidence to back them up. I think ever.monk may be right in that professionals will want something in a laptop capable of processing data in a manner akin to having dedicated mainframe research servers.

 

What is going through your head?

Ps3 portable? How in the world would the RSX be remotely small enough to cram into a portable device? I am guessing that currently, the RSX might me a bit smaller than the original PSP, but not by much...

 

The GF8600M GT in our laptop, which are 4 square inches are almost as strong as one

 

the point is it wont happen.

 

Well, we will see portables as strong as PS3

 

Heat is another thing though, if our laptops hit the temperatures that they do, who is going to play a portable Ps3 in their hands that will be over 50 degrees C at idle?

 

Best not ask that, there really isn't much we want to learn from said user's brain.