Problem with 8600m stuttering/slowdown found

Hi everyone.. I have now together with "blackbird" from here, found the problem many of us are suffering from when it comes to 8600m and performance, bad gameplay experience and unrelated slowdowns. Sit tight now... this news wont be good.

As it is today the stuttering/slowdown/low fps or whatever its been called is a Nvidia error with not too much bright future.

The problem occours at random 8xxx series cards without any logical relation to system OS or configuration.

To put it simple, its the 8xxx series gpu that randomly screws up managing texture memory, which means it leaves textures in the RAM both on the video card and in physical mem, which eventually with in 10-30seconds will become full, and your machine will slowly choke to death = slowdowns.

Nvidia does know this problem and have says to be working on a fix, however! last time they told the public it would be fixed soon was in July 2007 :/ yet we havnt seen any or anything near a fix.

So basicly most of us got an expensive laptop wich is broken, so decide people.. wait for the maybe very late nvidia fix, or claim your money back and go buy something with an ATI mobility card instead, because they are by far at the top of the game right now. Nvidia has screwed up BIG time!

I could continue for a long time explaining the problem, how it all fits together and such, but instead I advice you all to read the 2 articles below (quite short) and watch the youtube video last. Those 3 will give the preciese explanation of wich many in here couldnt understand.


article1:
http://keznews.com/20018=Nvidia_pinpoints_8800_slowdown_cause__delays_fix

article2:
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/12993

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcn6QDf6624

Good luck everyone.
And thanks to Blackbird for helping me out.

*edit*
Also posted in the Zepto section.

 

Well this is horrible news.... I've spent hours and hours trying to fix the stuttering but I guess it was always a lost cause.

It makes sense now why it takes a while for the stuttering to kick in (I always figured it was a heat issue).

Is it all cards that are affected or just some? The reason I ask is because some people seem to not be affected by it.

I wonder if I can return my laptop

Thanks for the update.

 

As nvidia mentions, its very very random who is, lots are enjoying their new 8xxx series card with pleasure, and some are having lots of trouble like us.

There is no relation between xp or vista, 4gb ram or 2gb, and so on. It's all quite random it seems.

So thought im left with at the moment is, would it even help replacing the gpu with a new one of the same kind?

 

If you don't mind me asking, what do you intend to do from here?

Return laptop?

 

i wouldnt even if u have the probelm there are some fixes that make it manageable

 

That's called a memory leak. Usually it's bad software coding that results in ever increasing amounts of RAM being used. In this case, there must be some chips that have a bad "gate" non-critical to normal use that if it is on or off causes this memory leak.

 

sly, do you mean the LOD Bias Clamp, etc? I Still get the stuttering with those fixes from the stuttering thread.

htwingnut, If thats the case maybe exchanging my laptop will allow me to get a card that actually doesn't have these problems (If im lucky)?

 

I already knew it (from this morning ) but i kept my mouth shut and waited for this post

And It's sure that this problem can be found on DDR2 and GDDR3 cards? (8600M GT DDR2 and 8600M GT DDR3)

It's good that nvidia is going to release a fix (i still hope so lol) but I think it's a bit late... I mean the 9-series are coming out.

 

Those "stuttering fixes" help a bit but it only makes the problem less noticeable...

There IS a problem and nvidia should fix it as fast is possible

 

Do you have this problem as well sgtmatt1?

I mean if it was found out july last year and there is still no fix, it looks to me like nvidia is just trying to keep this problem off the radar and hope people will eventually forget.

 

I do got the problem in some games and I bought my G1S in July 2007...
Like when I'm playing cod4, I overclock my 8600M GT GDDR3 and i get 100fps ! Than suddenly it drops back to 50 fps.. and after a time i get back 100,...

But in games like Team Fortress 2 and HL2 I actually don't notice this problem (I do use the Stuttering Fixes from the "8600M GT Stuttering Fixes" topic) maybe that's why... ?

EDIT: Now I'm using the 167.49 driver released by Asus (I didn't had to use the modded inf from LV2G) and I get better Vista aero performance (with the 169 series i had vista aero lag) and think i get less fps drops... But Blackbird says It's because:
- It's released by Asus (specific improvisations for my Asus laptop)
- It's an older driver ( You notice the fps problems more with newer drivers because they give an fps increase and suddenly it drops back, this is caused by the problem)

 

There is difference from one game engine to another... games like WoW is heavily affected, cod4 is too for me atleast. Havnt tried TF2 though.

And yes it seems it hits both ddr2 and drr3 from 8600 to 8800 cards. (havnt read anything about 8400 yet but wouldnt be suprised if its the 8xxx series in generel).

About what to do next is quite hard really.. since its close to impossible to find a small 14,1" laptop with the kind of potential power that my 6324 has, and should the solution be to go to ATI, I havnt been able to find any laptops smaller than 15,4" and most around 17" with decent ATI cards.

 

I personally don't think that you have to rush to the store and get a new laptop (going mad to the store and asking your money back ).

I really think that nvidia will release a fix for this problem, why? If they don't they will lose a lot people and everybody who is going to buy a laptop will chose for ATI...

 

I think part of the problem is that some people aren't having the issues we are having so it doesn't seem like it is a well known problem.

I mostly notice the stuttering in WoW and Unreal Engine 3.0 games (UT3, Bioshock, GoW). The strange thing is the stuttering doesn't seem to occur when I use the 158.36 drivers from laptopvideo2go (even without the stuttering tweaks). Perhaps you are right and the stuttering just isn't noticeable due to lower performance of these drivers in the later games.

All other drivers (including 167.49) even with the tweaks have very noticeable stuttering.

 

I'm glad you notice the same as I do

Yea, i really think it's cause of that...
And Blackbird also says that's why It doesn't affect the 3DMARK score, because it doesn't uses the GPU memory (or something like that) and indeed:newer driver give me better 3dmark06 score but give me also stuttering (fps drops).

 

3dmark goes back to win-desktop between every test run, which is the only "fix" at the moment. though it isnt a fix at all... going to desktop and back ingame does clear the gpu mem, thats why you see people getting smooth gameplay for another 30secs when doing that.

 

We find out a lot of stuff together ey Thomas haha.

Anyway yea, just to reinforce what’s been stated before;

The problem is with the memory handling, the textures, purging the memory and clearing it out efficiently on the 8 series cards.

Nvidia knows about this and promised a fix to come out September 2007, but it didn’t meet that date as they had underestimated the problem. They say that among the numerous fixes some slow down the cards performance (not good at all), and others screw up the performance of other cards from different series.

I think that statement is a bit of BS as if that’s the case they can just create a specific driver update for only the 8 series cards.

Currently they are planning to release a DX 9 fix before the DX 10 fix.

Anyway, this is the reason why

- You get stuttering, fps drops
- 3DMark06 scores are great, as it goes back to desktop to clear memory
- ATI DX 10 cards to rival Nvidia’s DX 10 8 series are uneffected
- Problem is OS independent, happens in both XP and Vista.
- Alt+Tab helps bring fps back to normal for a while.
- Limiting the games fps to a number same as or 1 below the lowest fps drop helps as then the drop isnt noticable
- Older drivers improve the stuttering as they came out before 8 series.
- Older drivers help as they do not offer the better fps new drivers have thus making the fps drop which does happen less noticeable.
- Problem is OEM independent
- “8600 Stuttering fixes” help as they deal with texture tweaks.

This video shows the Alt+Tab thing at work and the slowdowns

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UPDATE

According to sources Nvidia has released drivers with a beta fix implemented within...these are only for 8 series.

They are the 163.67 drivers.

You can grab them for Win XP/Vista 32/64 bit at LaptopVideo2Go

According to the changelog the only new feature is:

* Improved performance of the graphics memory manager on GeForce 8 series GPUs running DirectX 9 applications in single-GPU and NVIDIA SLI configurations.
These improvements solve cases of reported performance slowdowns in some 3D applications with high graphics settings and resolutions.


After testing these out myself I can say yes...these really seem to make a difference, I haven't had a single slowdown as of yet, and the games that have been tested are (all over 1 hour of gameplay)

- Call of duty 4
- Half Life 1 and 2
- Counter Strike Source
- Team Fortress 2
- Portal

My method for installing for those people who want to know

uninstalled my driver by going into device manager and clicking on uninstall at the 8600M GT
restart and boot into safe mode
run driver cleaner to remove chipset and driver entries from guru3d
uninstall rivatuner
run ccleaner to wipe out bad registry keys left from uninstalation
run regedit and search for nvidia, powermizer, rivatuner, delete all the keys found
reboot into windows, extract drivers, replace the inf and run using the setup.exe instead of have disk

And after installing I went into nvidia control panel, changed LOD thing to clamp and the performance mode to single display performance mode

 

Cod4 does seem a bit less stuttering with 163.67, however i think it is because they produce way less performance than the newer 169 series.

In WoW however the stuttering is as bad as always, just with worse general performance, since the drivers are quite old by now, compared to many others.

 

I will try installing this driver now, let's hope it gives no stuttering any more...
Like you play TF2 on 1680x1050 all maxed out without any stuttering, i play on 1024x768 with med. - high settings and I had stuttering... (And my card is GDDR3 lol )

 

The drivers are not as old as you might think, they are newer then the 158 series. They are dated 2007-09-11.

For me I have not had any performance hit at all and the stuttering seems to have gone, although I may have spoken too soon. If any one wants proof of any sort, please tell me which and I will provide it.

Just keep in mind, the only games I have are

- The Orange Box
- Call of Duty 4
- Half Life 1
- Counter Strike Source
- Gears of War
- The Witcher
- Crysis SP Demo
- I can install 3DMark06 if you really wish

As for why it helps some out where as not all of us...points to poor understanding of the problem on nvidias part and why an official announcment of a fix has not been made by them as of yet.

The above statement applies to only those who are having indeed this type of stuttering with no other possible causes such as

- Overheating
- Faulty driver installation
- Chipset drivers not correct/ not updated (please download intel inf utility to install latest chipsets for your system)
- Bios problems, try updating to latest bios
- Disk defragmentation and other harddisk related problems
- Direct X latest update not applied
- Powermizer issues

 

Hmm, i just played cod4 with this driver, it think it's right that you get no stuttering (sudden fps drops) but it lowers my fps in general...

 

Uhm, i think i found out why my GPU is running much hotter when he is idle (when i'm on desktop) the core clock stays at 475/702 (With other driver it automatically downclocks...)

So that's why he is running hotter + does this also explain i got no aero lag any more? (With other driver the clock speeds are lower when surfing,...) ?

 

I might consider downloading these drivers. Are they compatible with O/C'ing? I only notice stuttering in COD4, pretty much everywhere, and WoW when I load a new area.

 

They dont change anything for me at all. The reason they seem less stuttering in cod4 is possibly due to the lower generel fps i produces in that game, since its so new. The 169.xx is made for games like cod4 and like everyone sees, you get alot better performance.. but higher fps makes drops easier to see aswell.

163.67 or 163.71 isnt that bad, but yet you could just aswell use the 169.28 and limit your maxfps in games (those you can) to like 35 or 40, that way you wont notice the slowdowns, since it wont slow you down below 35. (works for me in cod4 and wow)

And for that "trick" your better of with better general performance.

p.s. tried 167.58 too, no change there either.

 

Hi all,

I had this problem too. UT3 was working brilliant until I reninstalled windows and it ran at 10fps and had plenty of stutter. I started experimenting with the processes in the task manager (deleting ones etc). This sounds wierd but I found if you end nvsvc32.exe (which is the nvidia control panel) it seems to help alot. I went from 10fps to 50fps in a matter of seconds. No alt-tabbing required. Just started the game again.

Hope that helps.
God Bless
Adam

 

I don't have that process 0.o

Are you using WinXP or Vista?

 

For odd stuttering in CoD4, try clicking the "Dual Video Cards" option. It has worked for a lot of people including myself.

This is for stuttering while strafing/aiming, even while framerates are high.

 

This is the most reliable thread so far that explains the 8600M GT stuttering issue. I Reckon this thread should be a sticky. Can that be done ???? that will help out a lot who has this issue...

 

Why the links concern about 8800 and OP talks about 8600?

 

since its an issue with the 8 series cards in general.