Problems with mobile Nvidia GPU's???

Yahoo is reporting this story about issues with previous generation laptop GPU's and MCP's. Hmmm...I wonder what these GPU's are? Nvidia didnt release the model of the affected GPU's but it looks like it is a substantial number.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20080703/tc_pcworld/147911

 

Alrighty, I'm not sure if this has been NBR yet, but here we go...

Quoted directly from Engadget: (can I do that?)

""If you're the type to watch the late stock tickers, you might have noticed that NVIDIA's stock just took a pretty big hit, down 24 percent to $13.56 -- that's because the company just informed investors that "significant quantities" of previous-generation graphics chips have been failing at "higher than normal rates," and that it's lowering its Q2 estimates due to pricing pressure. NVIDIA will be taking a $150M to $250M charge against earnings next quarter to cover the cost of repairing and replacing the affected chips, but didn't specifically announce what products were defective, just that they include GPUs and "media and communications processors." Laptop makers have apparently already been given an updated GPU driver which kicks in fans sooner to reduce "thermal stress" on the GPU, and NVIDIA says it's talking to its suppliers about being reimbursed for the faulty parts. That's great and all, but we'd really rather know which chips specifically are failing -- if you're serious about playing in the big leagues, you better come clean, guys.""


anyone get affected by this??

just thought i'd give the news, that is if it hasn't been posted yet, as I'm seriously considering the quadro 3600m when (if) if comes out for the clevo d901c, or at least upgrade to - as i'm buying within the next two weeks for start of masters program

 

pretty much 8-series.

 

If they did ever release a list. I'm sure the 8400M gs would make that list with the high number of reported problems just on NBR alone.

 

Well, the 8800Ms are running quite cool, and since they are G92, they aren't really "last gen". The 8600 is quite hot though
*cough*C90S*cough*. I would gladly take that driver NOW nvidia.

 

Hmm, so from the gist of it, they are actually going to release a driver that will initiate fans quicker? I'm guessing it will be outsourced to OEM's?

 

It`s my thought also.

 

Yeah, it might also include the 8/7 series along with the 7150 and the 6150 as well since these were the major cause of the HP laptop overheating issues leading to the massive repair issue. I think this is one of the reasons why OEM's are releasing more ATi based systems .

 

Its more of a band-aid than a fix. Kicking the fans in quicker would have the unfortunate side effect of decreasing battery life and increasing wear on the fans. This doesn't FIX the problem that the cards are "defective"

 

Well, my 8400GT OC'd ran cool, (75C full load), and my 8800m is based off the G92, so I'm not too worried. (Idle 48C, load around 78C)

 

thats a c90 design problem not a gpu problem.....

 

I wonder how many of these failures are due to the fact most of us pushing these GPU's to their overclocked max.

 

Haha, good point. Cause who ever tells the manufacture "Oh yeah, I was just over-clocking 40%, no big deal."

 

Enthusiasts are a minority and I highly doubt anyone would be overclocking their Go 6150/7150's.

 

I don't get how this is all nvidias fault though,

"Nvidia hasn't determined the exact cause of the problem but said it relates to a packaging material used with some of its chips, as well as the thermal design of some laptops. Modern processors generate considerable amounts of heat."

Now if told a manufacturer that their laptop could handle the gpu then yes thats nvidia's fault, but if that same manufacturer just goes and does their own thing "like they usually due" then how can nvidia be blamed?

 

I have the M1330 with the 8400m GS and it runs at like 60C idle. I think this is extremely high when comparing it against a 6800 go in my 9300 runs at about 35C idle and when at full load overclocked to about at 6800GT 50-55C.

 

Good point. There could be some back-door stuff going on here...

 

Question...just bough a gateway P6860FX with 8800GTS.......im still within the 15 day return period, though I will take a 15% restocking hit if i return it, but I cant have my sole pc be out of service for a while due to defective video card, should i return it and get something else? or .....?

 

Huh? Is your card defective? The 8800GTS is built off of the G92 core. Mine idles at around 48C, and under full load is about 78C.

 

I've used 3 of the gateway laptops the only problem I had with one was a defective HDD. I have not heard of a single problem with the gateway laptops and a defective gpu. It doesn't have the best cooling design, but it certainly operates within its specs. I would keep it unless you currently have a problem, also if you are that worried about it, just get a bestbuy warranty and you can walk into any bestbuy and get it fixed or replaced.

I think he was just worried if something does happen

 

oh nono. this is my only computer, if its defective, i wouldnt be here lol....but since this will be my only computer. the gateway with 8800GTS, im just concerned if this is affected by what Nvidia claimed..cause being the only one i cant have it die on me for a few days...i just have to decide soon to keep it or return it and take a 15% restocking hit (but if this saves me from the down time with computer , the restocking fee is worth it for me). Just trying to weigh my options.

 

Oh, okay, thanks for pointing that out Bwhxeon. By the way, I know you were the first one here to purchase the P-FX, do still own one?

 

No I sold two of them on these forums and went back to my sager. The 3rd one I ended up selling to my brother.

 

I have two options..
1) keep the gateway FX6860 and just hope for the best.

2) Return it, get a dell desktop , pop in an ATI 4850 and soup it up.. and get a 10 inches small MSI WIND when it release July 7th as a small portable....

Suggestions>?

 

well if your willing to give up the laptop and use a desktop, that means you don't need a laptop for gaming....so I would go with the desktop then.

 

been a long time desktop gamer, got this laptop cause of the price and 8800GTS, and it runs perfectly, Also got this laptop cause having 1 laptop and 1 power cord beat desktop with 20 different cord anyday, but I always had a spare laptop as back up , now i only have this. so kinda debating what to do lol

 

If there is nothing wrong with it, nothing to fix. As noted in previous posts, the 8800GTS isn't exactly "previous-generation," so I think you're fine.

 

How on earth is making the fan come on earlier going to help any one that has a card with this problem. All it will do is mean it takes slightly longer to get to the silly high max temps. Not too long ago nVidia was claiming their GPU's could regularly handle 100C+, now they're saying they can't. There's a surprise. Thermal design is obviously more of a problem that a driver cannot solve unless the driver is fundamentally flawed and is not optimized properly. I can see this "new" driver switching half the GPU off should it get above whatever new max temp nVidia decides is safe. More 8600mGT stuttering to come then.

 

Not quite. My 8600 runs at 70-78C when idle and at 80-88C when gaming. The reason it runs so hot when idle is that it fan is usually off -- it only turns it on when the temperature goes into the high 70's. It usually runs the fan low when gaming, only going to high when it gets really hot. If the card doesn't like high temperatures, the new drivers should help (though this is an annoying solution as the computer will be louder and will consumer more energy).

 

They never stated they are going to set a new "max temp", they are just going to lower the temp required to kick the fans on. (I.E. if it was 75C, now it will be 70C)

 

I get 55C idle and 92C when gaming. My fan is set via the bios to come in at a low speed at 55C, then go full at 67C. These temps settings are for the CPU not the GPU, but as the CPU is usually at 70C+ when gaming the fan is at high all the time I game, and low speed when not gaming as the CPU temp sits between 48C to 56C when idle.

 

Yeah, I read that part, but put in an interpretation as if they are seeing the GPU's fail at high temps they will probably reduce the max temp the card will run at before it starts to downclock/throttle itself. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but we will see. Now all I have to do is wait 6 months for my notebook manufacturer to release the new drivers .

 

I doubt they will do that. The max temp has been around the same for years, so I don't see them going back on all their testing. I just see that people are complaining about high temps to the manufactures, who in turn are complaining to Nvidia, when really, a lot of it is based on the cooling design of the notebook.

 

I agree entirely with the cooling design being the culprit. But as a sort of "band-aid" nVidia may drop this max temp. Do you have any idea as to what the current max temp is before it starts down clocking. Some people think it is 96C, others say different. Personnaly I think it is 96C, but it would be nice to know for sure what the temp is.

 

if anyone is very worried about their drivers
I reckon laptopvideo2go will no doubt have all details of installing fixed drivers should you need them
there's rarely a need to wait for your manufacturer

interesting that this has happened, though, not nearly as scandalous as the bad cirrus logic chips on Fujitsu desktop hard drives, or the Electrolyte scandal that took capacitors out.
those times people lost out on hardware and money paid for devices that failed just outside warranty.

at least Nvidia are holding their hands up. Thats a bold move

I would still chose nvidia over ati anyway, if not just for the Driver quality

 

Me Want The Fan Software!

 

Is this thermal issue related to the infamous 8 series stutter? If not then I agree with most of the earlier posts that a hardware error is unlikely to go away with a software-based fix.

 

Not sure if you guys saw this, check this link

Nvidia doesn't say which cards are affected, but it seems to be ones in the 8M series (which are now previous gen). The fix—a new driver that kicks in the cooling fans sooner, rather than later—is being distributed direct to notebook makers. So, if you've got a new Nvidia driver waiting for you from Dell or whoever made your laptop, congrats, you win! [WSJ, PC World]

Its probably the 8M series

 

http://gizmodo.com/5021713/lots-of-nvidia-laptop-graphics-cards-are-overheating-dying

link

 

Thats nothing more than a re-write of the OP's linked article.

 

As has also been stated above, the 8800M is not the same gen as the lower 8xxx series as it has the G92 core. Hopefully this means that it at least won't be affected.

 

SOME GPUs are failing due to heat...
This is because of the laptop design as much as the GPU design and Nvidia is owning their part of it.

This actually takes a ton of balls especially when it is not entirely their fault.
Nvidia could have blamed the manufacturers instead of admitting anything.

I wouldn't go worrying about it unless you are seeing loaded temps in the 90C range at stock speeds.


As for me, I seem completely unaffected by this.
(69C max when massively overclocked... obviously cooling is working)

 

As i alredy posted in "Lenovo / IBM" section

"I wonder if running our laptops on modded drivers made for desktop cards, could be part of the problem?"

 

I think this thing happen due to race between ATI & nVidia . nVidia always try to be first & they didn't focus on quality of the chip. ATI always take time to release products & that gives them significant amount of time to test the chips + outcome is better than nVidia

This thing never happen if they test them well before release.Now we know how much nVidia care about products before release to the consumers.

Notebook manufacturers don't want too many RMA products & No wonder why we see ATI cards with new notebooks.

 

I hope it's related to the stuttering issue, and that they replace the cards. I want my stuttering gone.

 

Do they know what Nvidia video cards are failing the most. Now i'm worried about mine : (

 

Don't want to worry about G9x based cards

 

I think it is more likely its the 30-50%+ overclocks without adequate testing or heat monitoring.

Some laptop enclosures are just not equal when it comes to dispersing heat and thus one user with a specific GPU and make may have completely different results than someone with the same GPU and a different make. (and even the same make sometimes)

Quite frankly, the people who usually mod their drivers are the ones checking the heat religiously.


and people... stop panicking unless your GPU is overly hot to start with. (before OC)

9xxx series and late 8xxx series are likely fine, this is likely late 7xxx series, integrated GPUs and early 8xxx series.

More than likely this is NOT going to get anyone a replaced laptop and it IS going to get nvidia drivers NERFED to be as bad as ATI ones.

This is the type of thing execs panic over and institute knee-jerk reaction policies which hurt the consumer.

And for the guy complaining how Nvidia's hardware is always rushed... give me a break... they are still making the best or the second best by a miniscule margin.

 

hmm so far no fan fix from apple.. maybe all is well?

 

You cant really blame the laptop vendor for this one. Dell is following the thermal specifications that NVIDIA is providing them. To the papers, the thermal pads used on 8400M's in M1330's are sufficient, and if the chips are failing still, all the blame lies with NVIDIA.