RTX v RTX Max Q?

How much of a performance difference is there? Is it worth spending the extra buck for a laptop that is not Max-Q?

 

It's like a full step down on average. Ie 2080MQ =2070

I would say it's worth not getting the MQ but I am also a power user that uses his laptop like an ultra portable desktop all in one.

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Wow really? I'm looking to upgrade from my 1070Gtx to a 2070gtx max-Q. Is there any point?

 

Honestly I can't really recommend Pascal to Turing. On average your gonna perform like a 1080 at best.

Or well in your case your 2070mq is roughly a 2060 or your old 1070.

If you can I would sit on your unit a year or two more. AMD and Intel are muscling in so we may see some better stuff coming.

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Would love to but my scree is pretty much falling off, the track pad doesn't work ad some keys don't either. Not sure what's happened with this laptop as I treat it like a god. Unfortunately I also live abroad which doesn't allow me to send it back for repair. But hearing this is a bit depressing as it means a lot of money for little gain...And all the laptops I like are Max-Q...EQ MSI GS75

 

Sometimes you can't wait.

It's a matter of cost vs performance, so pick a Pascal on sale for a lot less, or get a better cooled / performance Turing at a good price from someone you can get reliable support from (both Pascal / Turing).

Max-Q products should work as good as or as bad as depending on your POV as a "normal" Nvidia GPU, the difference is in the perception, and if they can try to charge more for less value they will - that's what the Turing generation is about - charge more for the same performance.

So as long as you check reviews and compare performance vs cost and be realistic about the performance of Max-Q variant vs normal, you should be fine.

Get as much performance as you need, save some $, and get back into useful service so you can wait for the better stuff down the road.

 

Damn. That's a really crappy deal there mate.

Are you able to sniff around the second hand market any? Or find fire sales of old model laptops for clearance?

That's honestly what I would recommend.

That being said 20rtx is ok if you have to buy anyways. You get a much better HDR pipeline, RTX is ok. DLSS is ok when it works.

But it's a very first gen of the new thing kinda deal...you know.

Personally I would recommend, if you are gonna buy something that's a 2070MQ if you can find a decent enough unit just step down to a full fat 2060 as it's only seemingly 4-5% slower for like 20% less the price in my area.

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I had't considered a 2060 RTX thanks! Would you say it's on paar with the 1070gtx?

I am currently considering these four laptops...obviously some of them are crazy expensive!

HP omen 17: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/hp-o...c-intel-i7-9750h-gaming-laptop-lt-045-hp.html

Or the MSI GS75: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/msi-...3-144hz-i7-9750h-gaming-laptop-lt-29d-ms.html

Or the Razor: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/raze...z-intel-i7-9750h-gaming-laptop-lt-00u-ra.html

Or configuring this: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/recoil-III-rtx-17/

Unfortunately the more expensive ones actually have the Max-Q which is why I'm leaning towards the PC specialiast one!

 

The RTX 2060 is on par or usually beats the 1070.

I would lean towards the HP omen or the configurable one.

Razer I would avoid because it seems like they are having a lot of QC issues lately and the MSI kinda gets blown out by the HP if it is Infact a full 2070.

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Unfortunately the GPU options you're considering are a sidegrade if not a downgrade to the 1070N in games that don't favor Turing.

 

Awesome thanks! You've pretty much answered all my questions I had on like 3 forums ha!

I'll look into it, only downside of course is that the Omen seems MASSIVE.

 

No problem. I try to help where I can.

And yea you need that chunky boi to cool those RTX cards.

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So most games at the moment aren't optimized for the new RTX cards?

 

Cool, maybe i'll lea towards the upgradeable one or find a decent 2060!

 

Generally speaking, newer games/benchmarks, especially those using low-level APIs (DX12/Vulkan) tend to run better on Turing, as do applications running at higher resolutions (1440p/4K) due to Turing's higher memory bandwidth, while older DX11 games/benchmarks and those running at 1080p tend to run better on Pascal.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/GeFor...Force-GTX-1070-Laptop_9611_7364.247598.0.html

The 1070N sqeaks ahead of the 2070MQ in the average benchmark and average gaming performance, but it's more worth looking at it on a case-by-case basis.

 

This might be a stupid question, but why do they release different graphic card types? Why not always Pacsal?

 

Because newer architectures are generally better from a performance, efficiency, and feature set standpoint.

 

Just want to point out a few things:
RTX cards are definitely worth it if you are planning on playing games with RTX effects like Metro Exodus or Cyberpunk 2077 and few others (BF5, next Watch Dogs, some other games). They will all be significantly faster than 1070 GPUs with these options enabled. And yes, even Metro Exodus will be perfectly playable with RTX and most graphical options enabled even on 2060 GPU.
As far as the performance difference - do not use Notebookcheck, they compare different laptop models with different drivers and different RAM and other hardware in their "one GPU vs the other" comparisons. Use YouTube reviews instead. For example OWNorDisown made a good video comparing Dell notebooks with same hardware but one with 2060 GPU and the other with 2070 Max-q:

 

Lower core clock speed and lower overall maximum wattage are clear indicators of some performance difference. You just can't get the full RTX version in a lot of the thin-and-light notebooks so you'll be sacrificing size and weight for the performance. With a larger 17.3" laptop I do not mind the thickness, but I would on a smaller overall laptop.

 

Yes, the Max-q is a GPU specifically made for thin laptops since they can't handle a full power 2070 or 2080 GPU. The Max-q is basically the same GPU just down clocked and with lower power limit. It's not a bad thing since it is still faster than, say, 2060, and 2080 Max-q is just as fast or faster than standard mobile 2070 while consuming less power, it's just all laptop manufacturers charge a lot of money to upgrade from something like 2060 to 2070 Max-q so it may not worth it for some people.

 

Ok so have been looking around a bit and I think I will lean towards a 2060rtx as it is a tiny upgrade but won't have me spedig crazy amounts. I am tempted with these so far:

MSI GS75: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/msi-...n-bezel-i7-8750h-gaming-laptop-lt-29q-ms.html

or

HP Ome 17 which seems to come for more bang for your buck: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/hp-o...z-intel-i7-9750h-gaming-laptop-lt-04a-hp.html

Alternatively this 2070rtx does soud good: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/msi-...3-144hz-i7-9750h-gaming-laptop-lt-29j-ms.html

Also there is no Max-Q option for the 2060 right?

Edit: does ayoe know why the HP omen is so much cheaper than other laptops in its range? Is that due to companies like MSI ad Razor where you just pay for the name?

 

The omen seems to have less side features than the MSI, though yea you still pay a bit more for the name as well.

Also depending where you live there might be a higher tariff on products from MSI than like HP or the like.

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Ah thought so! Ok last question I promise! What do you thik of that MSI GE75 with the full RTX 2070?

 

I owned a ge laptop.

best keyboard I ever used and loud speakers, one problem was the cpu temps, i would check out a review to see if the new msi laptops overheat. if i recall correctly they don't.

Pros: like 4 areas for storage upgrade
killer speakers
msi keyboard with per key rgb backlighting
full 2070
6 core cpu that doesn't throttle
good srgb coverage on the high refreshrate display
cons:
rubbish trackpad
rubbish webcam

 

Not bad for cons! I looked up some reviews ad heatinng seems fine.

 

I have a GT series and my brother has a GE series. Both have been solid so far.

If the reviews reflect it I would go for that one.

You will get a bit of a perf bump

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Awesome thanks! Overclockers uk have it for order this week so might pick it up!

 

Be careful with MSI stuff, especially the display hinge. The sockets that holds the hinge screws are metal but they are surrounded by cheap plastic which may crack in less than a year. At least this is what happened to some MSI owners before, I don't know if MSI did any improvements or not. You can Google the "MSI broken hinges" and see the affected models.

 

Hmm that's quite worrying as this is the reason I have to replace my current laptop. I am also considering the Asus Roc 2 or 3. What do you guys think of that?

 

I wouldn't worry as some users have reported that playing football with their laptops decreases lifespan...don't worry all laptops can break down and do, msi tests all their machines for repeated use.

 

Well, perhaps they have reinforced the hinges in current model and you won't have issues... but the previous GE73 models did have issues, this is a well known fact, you can find examples in MSI forums and on Reddit. In any case just be careful when opening and closing display lid. I have not seen similar issues with other brands when I did my research before buying my laptop.

Thanks for the laugh ;-) Logic dictates that if they did that - the owners would not have issues like these:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MSILaptops/comments/a548ru/ge73vr_raider_hinge/
https://www.amazon.com/MSI-GE73-Raider-008-Extreme-i7-7700HQ/product-reviews/B073YG132S

And other models:
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=299477.0
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=312082.0
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=320016.0

Just because YOU got lucky with your particular unit does not mean there is no design flaw.

 

His report is just as valid as the ones you point out, and just because there are a few doesn't mean it's an epidemic.

My own use is with the GT models and they are built very solid, GT80, GT73, GT75 with no hinge or structural problems over 2 years+.

I do know not to open and close my lid numerous times a day. I don't close my lid to sleep my laptop, and I don't run with the lid closed when using an external display - I use the internal monitor for... monitoring windows from various tools, keeping them off the main display.

I also put the protective cloth between the keyboard and the screen without fail to keep the keycaps from marring the screen covering.

As a matter of experience I've learned over the years not to "use" mechanical things involved with laptops more than necessary. Simply not opening and closing a laptop screen multiple times a day multiplies the number of days between screen hinge failures. If I do it 4x per day (2 at home 2 at work) or just as likely 4x per week or month if I don't want my laptop at work, instead of 20x per day I've just extended the life of the hinge by 5x or more.

I also don't pick up the laptop by the display - yeah, some people do that and then swing it around like that's how it's supposed to be picked up and transported. Pick it up by the base, and support the display by half closing it and carrying it using your hands / thumbs on the base.

I also keep the laptop out of the hands of children and inexperience adults.

Similarly I don't use the internal keyboard / trackpad because I use similar external keyboard / pointing devices across a number of computers so I can type at full speed and not make errors when typing - much easier when you use the same keyboard across all of your systems and locations.

That saves the crispiness of the keyboard for the following owners - a good selling point BTW, and unused keyboard makes the laptop shine and gives the keyboard a good feel when they try it out - it's new after all.

Before using external keyboard / point devices I used to have to replace laptop keyboards at least once and sometimes 2 or 3 times during the life of the laptop for myself and family laptops.

So rather than limiting "be careful" to "MSI stuff" I'd say be careful with any laptop. If you take good care of the hinge / keyboard the exceptional results are all down to your usage.

 

Like I said, MSI might have fixed it in current version but personally I would avoid it based on my own research. A research which showed abnormally high complaints about hinges in previous MSI models compared to other brands and something I cannot ignore even if some people (like you) had a good experience. It's like with current Alienware 51m models - there are some users who have used them without issues and there are plenty of others who had burned out VRMs on them. I've read the 51m thread here and I also found plenty of stuff on Reddit, so I also decided to not bother with that (even considering the warranty).

Long story short, if others are willing to gamble with their own money - hey, that's their choice, I just wanted to warn them.

 

Alright guys I'm on the final leg of my decision.

I am ow deciding between the MSI GE75: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/msi-...3-144hz-i7-9750h-gaming-laptop-lt-29j-ms.html

Asus Rog Scar 2: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asus...4hz-3ms-i7-8750h-gaming-laptop-lt-26v-as.html

(This one is tempting because its very cheap at the moment ad the CPU is apparently only 5% worse than the i7-9750H.

Or wait until the Asus Rog Scar 3 is out with that amazing 240ghz screen! https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asus...0hz-3ms-i7-9750h-gaming-laptop-lt-28r-as.html

 

I don't know....I tend to agree with hmscott. 1 million units sold and you point out 3 people with problems and put me down...

[personal attack removed by moderator]

Ok I spent 30 seconds finding this, you could have done the same...

However, readers using MSI laptops gave the company some very Apple-like ratings: Overall satisfaction was 9.1 and satisfaction with reliability was 9.0. The likelihood recommend MSI was 8.7.

It is such a reliable brand its tied with apple at number 2..... 1 apple msi 2...

So this is based on a very accurate source readers source and you better not chime in and argue this.

[personal attack removed by moderator]

https://www.pcmag.com/article/341366/readers-choice-awards-2016-laptops-and-desktop-pcs

 

Any thoughts o which is the best between those 3?

 

No idea. I did not own any of those models but perhaps you can find owners in dedicated Asus and MSI subforums and see if they report any issues or what is their experience like with support and warranty process.

Also take a look at reviews on Notebookcheck, they might have some useful data about things like fan noise or display quality (whatever is important for you).

Check Amazon reviews, especially on Amazon US site. Also search Reddit for specific models to see if someone had specific issues. Always trust the data by real users, not made-up statistics by paid shill sites like PCMag ;-)

Oh, and here is YouTube channel which might be helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2Rzju32yQPkQ7oIhmeuLwg

 

Unfortunately no one ever replies on those forums anymore

 

stay with the 1070, or give it away and get a 2080 or something. Yes going from pascal to turing will be very underwhelming, and alot of that will be application optimized and dependent. If your a 4k person, then your going to notice a serious difference, and thats really going to be it for turing. One of turings claim to fame is the use of new vulkan library codec and ray tracing. Ray tracing is more or less a joke, but the new vulkan coding is interesting, and appears to be primarily responsible for turings performance. If I had to guess, you can probably get the turing vulkan to work on pascal, like how ray tracing does but with modified drivers. Doing that would maybe unlock significant performance for pascal, but nvidia obsolescence based drivers, we probably wont see it outside of user hacks. For all the money you will spend, consider building a pc, I kind of wish I did.

 

Review of the MSI GE75 + RTX 2080

https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-G...15034.0.html#toc-emissions-loud-but-effective

Review of the ASUS Scar lll + RTX 2070


https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-...-with-compromises.427678.0.html#toc-emissions

They are both pretty good but have extremely loud fans when gaming ( for my taste ) no Gsync display options and no TB port, if your OK with those things .

If I had to choose between those 2 alone I would get the MSI for the power advantage alone but both of those laptops are not my first choice. I did look into those pretty deeply and personally not for me .
I did pick up a ACER Predator Triton 500 RTX 2080MQ when it was sale for a huge discount at MicroCenter in the USA and love it so far, runs fairly quiet and cool when gaming and have had no problems with it so far for the past 6 + months.
Only thing that’s sucks about is it’s a pain to take apart because of the flipped MOBO but I can live with that, I’m OK with it being a MQ laptop because with the 1080P Gsync 144Hz display it will have more than enough power to last me at least 2-3 years if not more as long as everything doesn’t breakdown.
I realize most people on these forums are not fans of MQ laptops but they do have a purpose even though you might pay the same as a MaxP GPU and get slightly less performance, that’s why I waited for it to be on sale instead of paying full price.

 

replace "slightly" with "quite a bit" and youre good to go there buddy

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That’s fine and I’m OK with that .I’m more than happy with what the 2080MQ has to offer performance wise.
It’s a good fit matched to the rest of the hardware in my laptop.
I don’t need to chase every last FPS .

 

It all depends on whether you value raw performance or quiet, lighter units more.

Both have their pros and cons.

 

The problem with the Max-Q will always be that the you are still paying the "Max-P" price, despite the 30% in performance you are losing.

Instead you can save 30% of the money, to get the non-Max Q GPU that is a tier down, whose relative performance you are getting anyway.

Most will do the latter.

 

In terms of price the Max-q is not very desirable. But when it is the only choice - it is worth it. For example, let's say you're buying a Dell G7, and you want the best display which is a 240hz panel (it is better than 144hz option because it has higher contrast ratio and faster response rate, plus it is more power efficient). This display is not available with 2060 GPU. So the only option you have is pay a little bit extra for 2070 Max-q.

 

Ok, but aren't you overlooking weight and size? If size and weight are equal, perhaps the full GPU is superior. But a RTX 2080 can't perform in a slim, lightweight laptop as well as an RTX 2080 Max-Q will. For many buyers, this advantage is worth a price premium.

 

And that is why im trying to flash a max-p 2080 vbios onto my GS75. I've actually tried flashing the max-p vbios onto my GS75. It flashes successfully but the performance isnt there.

Hwinfo64 claims a 150w power draw but measuring the power draw from the wall now its actually lower than before. Clocks are hovering at the 1380 mark which makes me suspect that for some reason gpu boost isnt kicking in.

 

"For some reason"? You are causing GPU to draw more power than the power circuitry was designed for, I am sure there is a protection beyond the video BIOS values which will not allow GPU to draw power beyond certain limit no matter what.

 

I'm not sure if any hardware restrictions built into the board by msi but I've done quite a bit of research into the power delivery capabilities of the vrm on the GS75.

It's using the same mosfets as the upgraded vrm found on the Alienware Area 51m. The difference is that the 51m has 6 phases while the GS75 has 5 phases.

If the 6 phases on the 51m can handle a 200w rtx 2080, 5 phases will no doubt be able to handle 150w.

I've thought about the power brick being a limiting factor but in that case the worst we'll see is the battery draining when the laptop is under full load, like many gaming laptops of last generation.

 

The 2080 Max-Q is so restrained that it is performing on the level of the RTX 2060/2070 Maz-Q in some gaming scenarios.

This card in particular is the outlier for me, because it is so nerfed to get it within the thresholds they needed that it's little more than a PR win at times.