Ray tracing another BS

So yeah it's as I predicted a long time ago, it's an absolute performance hog same as Physx and Hairworks. Even when RTX cards are fixed and stop dying on you, there is no real compelling reason to purchase one of those cards.

 

yet! i think this is due to how they marketed it...again. it definitely has potential it just needs more refinement.

 

How do you think it has potential? It takes half of the silicon die for the support logic for RTX and DLSS, stealing potential overall performance for nothing useful.

RTX in a truly useful form could have been packaged as a development tool for game makers, professional visualization, "movie making", and priced accordingly for professional use - affordable to the user as it helps improve production, and Nvidia could have profited from that valuable use.

Instead RTX is a hopelessly cut down version even in the highest end model, and RTX game software mods are tacked on last minute via gaming companies (FFXV) requiring sacrifices of developer time and effort better spent on making the game better.

Instead of focusing on game development developers are distracted trying RTX for zero gaming advantage or improvement - there is little to no interest from game company marketing as it's more of a cost to them than a benefit in sales - besides the BFV sweetheart deal with Nvidia for bundling with RTX GPU's over the holiday sales season.

The performance budget for RTX features is so low that only a fraction of the potential use is applied, and even then it's cut back to gain back FPS for actual gaming performance.

Nvidia RTX as shipped is an embarrassment, a total disaster, and will continue to be a drag on RTX GPU sales - and resale value.

Nvidia RTX is a Holiday Turkey, and not the good kind.

 

Which makes me hope all the more that the 2060 will be a GTX card with none of that RTX crap. Just allot that die space for more cores, Nvidia!

 

did you even watch that video by jays2cents. he says hes getting over 100 fps with rtx on and that it's worth it. contrary to your opinion.....JEESH forum needs to crackdown

 

Did you actually watch that entire video? He did nothing but gush about it in the back half of the video. Seemed very level-headed and realistic when discussing it. This is going to be a godsend for single-player RPG and even action games where you don't need 144FPS and you can crank up some settings and enjoy the environmental niceties. I'm stoked for RTX after watching this video.

The good part? You can turn it off for those games that you just want raw FPS, which the 2080Ti is the best single card right now for that.

 

So you are willing to ignore the uselessness of RTX as proven by actual use in the first part of the video, but have sparkles in your eyes from the unproven fantasies spun in the 2nd part of the video?

Do you really want to wait for future disappointment in RTX?, why not be satisfied with the disappointment of RTX today? RTX is already a failure, why wait for RTX to continue to fail over and over before believing it has failed?

You are ready to come back for another serving of magic beans because it's "gonna be great" for games that are unproven in their use for RTX? You don't think the same damn thing will happen with any game?

RTX is dropping FPS 50%-75% *while standing still* *with nothing moving*, just like RPG's.

The best decrease in RTX FPS loss was when Jay looked up into the inactive open sky!

So are you saying you want to play games that do nothing but look up into the open sky? So you want to continually drop image quality settings and now actual gaming activity until RTX FPS is usable? Wake up!

Nvidia pre-release RTX BS had ZERO goodwill and credibility going into the RTX GPU release, and now Nvidia has a NEGATIVE goodwill credibility rating given RTX has proven to be useless BS.

Do you really want to continue to give Nvidia the benefit of the doubt, your $1300, and wish for that RTX golden egg to finally hatch?

What's that old saying...?

Wish for RTX success into one hand, and let Nvidia crap RTX BS into the other, and see which hand fills up first.

 

I did, that's the problem.
The implementation of the ray tracing in battlefield 5 is extremely limited (multiplayer), because of the major performance problems it causes, that being said, imagine the implementation of ray tracing in tomb raider, where your FPS are already around 60s to begin with. Then you have 20-30FPS in the game. Imagine ray tracing in upcoming cyberpunk, u'd have around 10FPS on 1080p maxed out.

If you tell a guy who most likely has a 4k monitor because he is a graphiclover, that he has to turn the resolution down to 1080p and get lower FPS than he gets on 4k just to see some reflections, then he will tell you to go away and never to speak to him again.

Ray tracing is nothing but the same garbage nGreedia has done with physx and hairworks. It's placebo at best which drains a lot of performance.

The fact that you apparently didn't see jays2cents saying that in singleplayer battlefield 5 (which would represent your RPG singleplayer experience) the game was extremely laggy and showed the garbage FPS, just tells me that you are the person who should watch the entire video.

 

Ray tracin gitself is great. but the implementation needs to be way quicker. The current state of the level of ray tracing isnt much better than emulating it with screen space reflections, multiple camera positions etc. Hitman 2 shows this nicely in the first mission where objects outside of the screen space are still being reflected. Still a very heavy game to run though.

 

Well there you go. Hitman 2 runs on ultra 1080p on a GTX 1080 non TI and apparently works with reflections on basicially ray tracing level while running on average with 140FPS.

 

That cant be true that framerate. Hitman 2 is extreeeemely demanding. With a 1070GTX overclocked i'm around 60~70FPS with some dips in very crowded environments. My point is more like currently RTX doesnt add enough performance VS smart programming and visual hacks to give the same effect.

 

What the hell, thats a huge difference. Will shoot a video later of my performance on a 1070GTX. I have no indications of a CPU bottleneck but I'm not having similar performance with everything on ultra.

 

What is the GTX 1070 playing on?? AMP??

 

Internal, at 1800~1850mhz, full load so no bottleneck there. CPU is around 70~80% of load.

 

Go ahead and go a firestrike test, post result here, lets see what performance you're at.

 

This is my firestrike score. I never undestood though why my core clock is so strange on that page. I wish it was over 4000
https://www.3dmark.com/fs/15122509

 

So when running the GPU alone without the CPU, you seem to have normal performance.

So there could be 3 reasons for your performance:
- Power limit throttling because of EC/power supply
- Drivers doing something funny
- Game is acting up for you

Here is hitman on GTX 1070 ultra 1080p:


average FPS around 110.

So you should have around the same FPS. Could you maybe run Hitman 2 while running Hwinfo64 logging in the background, then send the CSV file? that way I could take a look whats going on.

EDIT:
nvm seems that on the video itself the problem is also there were it drops FPS severely. it seems that there is some bug in the engine causing some performance issues. I assume it will be fixed in the next few patches, since there is no indication of an actual CPU bottleneck.

 

how is this new news?

When I run medium reflections on grid i get 40fps, and when i run ultra reflections im around 20fps. rtx is like uber ultra insane reflections so yes consider your frames halved.....its a big jump in realism and its not going to leave. flow with it not against it.....photo realism is coming...

 

When the RTX bolt on's can keep up performance wise with the rest of the game engine, when it's a balanced performance integration that adds instead of detracts from game FPS, then it's ready for prime time, not now.

There is no way I could recommend RTX feature GPU's as they are currently designed and marketed to any consumer. The price performance isn't there at all.

Going by the idleness of the GPU cores while RTX is engaged, it looks like a 1060 performance level GPU should have been the maximum matched with the same number of RTX cores in the 2080ti.

You know what I mean?

Match the RTX features with a GPU that doesn't drop frame-rate when Ray-tracing is enabled. So when RTX is ON, the FPS is the same as when RTX is OFF. That would be the properly engineered application of RTX.

Instead of slowing down the RTX 2060, RTX 2070, RTX 2080, RTX 2080ti with RTX, boost the real FPS performance of all of those GPU's, and drop RTX completely - make them GTX GPU's for high performance gamers.

Then have a single RTX GPU with FPS performance matched to the bolted on RTX FPS capability. Take a 1060 that matches FPS @ 1080p with and without RTX features enabled, and that can be the Ray-Tracing Enthusiast GPU for forward thinking gamers / game designers.

Heck, Nvidia could sell the RTX 1060 cheap enough to encourage everyone to slap in a 2nd GPU with ray-tracing in every PC. That's how Nvidia could have entered the market fairly with ray-tracing.

Instead of the failed RTX release we have now, Nvidia could have preserved the integrity of the GTX 2060, GTX 2070, GTX 2080, and GTX 2080ti's by selling them all for hundred's of $ less and delivering much higher gaming performance by utilizing that wasted space taken up with RT / Tensor cores with real GPU performant silicon.

The current Nvidia RTX GPU products that are dragging down the performance of Nvidia's highest end GPU's with RTX features are the result of poor engineering / marketing design decisions.

 

Nvidia introduced the RTX hardware now as an investment for the future, which is going to pay huge dividends. The RTX 2000 series is a calculation.

Stop being so damn shortsighted.

 

No joke. This reminds me of the Lost in Vegas guys doing their reaction to Metallica's "One". Commenting on how people irrationally extreme react to things online. In this case metalheads bashing this classic song because they are idiots: Link to the proper time code

OMG BBCODE SUCKS, Can't link to a timecode it seems to try to keep FIXING it for me and just embedding the video...

 

Let Nvidia pay and invest, and not burden us with their bad ideas, then ask us to spend 2x-3x more for the same thing they've sold us for the last 2 years + a hot dripping bag of RTX BS.

The Nvidia RTX 2000 series is a calculation alright; Nvidia calculating that enough RTX suckers will pony up far too much money for NOTHING!!

Failed / No RTX games, no DLSS games, "test escapes" BS, and way way overpriced!

What more could you want from Nvidia for the Holidays?

A lump of Coal?


OMG, only 1 RTX GPU is in the Top 10 Amazon GPU's on sale right now! The next RTX GPU is at #15! The Top 10 are either Series 10 GPU's or AMD GPU's.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/nvidia-thread.806608/page-103#post-10826921

 

the 2080ti is a luxury item at the price it's currently at. We'll see drops in the next generations as the RTX tech becomes cheaper for them to implement by gaining mastery, they pay for their R&D, AMD actually competes, and intel enters the market.

 

It definitely is pricey, but I think in a few months were going to see the prices come down a bit as the market becomes more saturated. Maybe after the holiday rush. A few lucky ones got that EVGA black card for $999 the other day, no tax and free ground shipping. At that price it's actually a really good deal. I paid $800~ at Frys out the door for my Strix 1080 Ti. Sure it's not the superclocked or FTW edition but at the end of the day you're talking a few fps at most. The overclocking differences won't be huge. If I could have snagged that version, I would have. Even at stock, the 2080 Ti performance is phenomenal and drives Battlefield V at 1440p Ultra perfectly for my 144hz needs.

 

Those strix cards seem great from what I've read, extremely quiet.

Yeah the 2080Ti is the fastest single card by a decent margin, AMD barely had anything to compete with the 1080, nvidia is all by themselves at the top for a while.

 

Right now the price on Amazon is $1749+ for the top selling RTX 2080 ti (#73):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B07HWMDDMK/ref=olp_f_new?ie=UTF8&f_new=true

Those are not luxury prices, those are total rip-off prices preying on the victim's of Nvidia addiction.

If the lack of RTX GPU's on the Amazon Best Sellers list is any indication, Nvidia is going to have huge stacks of RTX GPU leftover's after the holidays.

Will Nvidia simply do the sane thing and discount them? Of course not!!

Nvidia are sniffing their own product and believing their own BS, and are gonna get called up in front of the Nvidia board / stock holders unless they can spin some mighty stinky powerful BS to explain their continually growing Inventory numbers...

Who cares? The 2080ti is 2x more at MSRP than the last two ti's at release ($649/$699 vs $1300), and barely fast enough to get out of it's own way running with RTX ON.

With the inflated pricing reaching $1749+ it's beyond a rip-off, now the shame is folding back onto the buyers - like WTH is wrong with you that you think this is worth $1749??

I could grok the "panting greed" driving the "Mining Crazies" causing people to pay massively inflated GPU prices, but really, how can anyone justify spending $1300 => $1749 for a 2080ti now??

Jensen Huang demonstrates how to "Program" Nvidia suckers.

 

https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=11G-P4-2382-KR

Here. $1199 and still in stock. Titan Xp costs $1200 still, and no one was batting an eye at that price. This card is significantly faster than the Titan and costs the same.

Still the $999 2080 Ti is the card to get if you can manage to snag one. Mash F5 or setup an auto refresh with an alert/alarm.

 

The newly rumored Nvidia RTX Titan "Gaming" GPU is the "ThunderCougarFalconBird" of needlessly ostentatious GPU consumption, comes with a wide dispersal envy generator, with "Eagle Beaks" out the wazoo.

I wonder if that sucker finally breaks the RTX 60 FPS barrier in Battlefield V @ 4k?

What may turn out to be a $5,000+ GPU might actually bring back true gaming to Nvidia RTX.


NVIDIA Titan RTX Graphics Card With Flagship Turing GPU Allegedly Pictured
By Hassan Mujtaba, Nov 30 2018
https://wccftech.com/nvidia-rtx-titan-graphics-card-allegedly-pictured/

 

Again, you are extremely shortsighted, so I'll go into more detail this time.

Why people who think like you thought ray tracing and DLSS support would be widespread out of the gate just baffles me. Like all new hardware, it has to be in developers hands to actually be, well, developed for before it can start showing up in games. Things will look very different when games have been developed with these technologies in mind, from the design phase, and not just tacked on at the end of development. That is how real optimization happens.

Nvidia had to get the hardware out there as soon as possible, as painful as it might be, so that future generations of games will be developed with the technologies from the ground floor. The 2000 series is setting up the future successes of the company, as ray tracing and DLSS support will be in full swing by the time Nvidia has prepared its generation of 7nm GPUs for release. The "3000" series will be faster, smaller, and far cheaper than the 2000 series, and most importantly far more capable of taking advantage of thhe technologies Nvidia has introduced within Turing.

No one is being forced to buy Turing, so don't bother bringing a counter argument that is focused on how expensive it is. No children are being held hostage last I checked. Nvidia knew this series would be a tough sell, but they took the hit, knowing that they were going to see victory in the future series of cards

 

You are hoodwinked like so many that Nvidia hardware Ray-tracing is a Fait Accompli, with no questions being asked about what the reasoning is for saddling all of the GPU's in the RTX series with a 50% burden of useless silicon.

There was no reason to push this incomplete crap, a brain fart of the 1st degree, onto every new GPU in this series, no reason except for money.

The whole reason for the RTX feature BS is to generate a reason to raise price from generation to generation by the maximum burden the Nvidiots will accept. Nvidia's captive market breeds Nvidia's greed - which is already massive.

The "Apple Effect", while now failing spectacularly with Apple itself, milking the saps for all they are worth, is too attractive for Nvidia to not be moved to do the same. Extract the maximum tithing from the Nvidiots, without mercy.

So rather than ignoring price as a side-effect, money is the 100% focus at the very inception of the idea for this generation of RTX GPU's.

RTX technology isn't the core for the existence of this first generation of RTX GPU's, it's the leverage such BS can provide to extract more money from the faithful. Just like any cult, the front is the BS hand-waving that allows the backroom to rake in the cash.

How can Nvidia fool their fools once more with some BS hand waving that will motivate their faithful suckers to pony up *even more money* this time around?

How can Nvidia shake things up so as to come in like Raptors from outside their victims peripheral vision of awareness to attack their wallets, emptying them of their savings, lunch money, down to the very bottom of their pockets, down to the spare change in their couch?

How how how...what BS do we have waiting on the shelf to accomplish our goal of money-money-money above all else? While at the same time create a world of confusion as to what the suckers are really getting. Such is the birth of RTX features.

Promise everything and nothing with the same BS, while taking all of their money.

Always it's the money, always it's the BS, always it's the power, always you are the sucker paying for it all, until you wake up and stop getting hoodwinked.

Spoiler: What is the Solution?

Leave the Nvidia RTX GPU's sitting on the shelf. Buy a GTX or AMD GPU if you need one.

Send a message to Nvidia that enough is enough, stop the hand-waving BS and get back to delivering performance improvements without the egregious price increases, get back to the model of delivering more GPU performance at the same or less price point in each succeeding GPU generation.

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/Larrabee-Ray-Tracing,5769.html

 

Really now?
Why is physx not in every game?
Why are there to this date only 5 games supporting NVIDIA hairworks?
Oh yes, because it's dumb technology nobody cares about.

Hell they even removed physx from witcher 3 and replaced it with havoc because the clothes were bugged and the game ran like garbage.

 

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-dice-battlefield-v-game-ready-driver-50-percent-performance-improvement/

 

Witcher 3 uses CPU PhysX, not Havok (enable the PhysX indicator in Nvidia Control Panel). A ton of games use PhysX for their physics engine. PhysX was the physics engine for UE3, probably the most popular game engine ever, and now UE4 as well.

 

PhysX is nvidia.
Ageia PhysX Card (2006) I had one lol

 

It looks like another cleanup "reduction" in RT effects for the most part, removing foliage and removing inactive geometry, and removing other performance wasting elements - another reason to never have released RT / DXR features in this "tacked on at the last minute" rushed half-baked way.

Joker discusses BFV RT Update, along with the Titan RTX release:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/nvidia-thread.806608/page-105#post-10828988

 

Looks like a huge update and great performance increase while providing excellent ray traced reflections. This after only 2 or 3 weeks of tweaking and tuning. In some of those scenes the performance up lift was like 200%.

Edit correction: Over 200%

https://imgur.com/a/pAs5hxx

"We are just scratching the surface on ray tracing optimizations".

 

Who cares? Hitman 2 does ray tracing without RTX

 

You mean Hitman 2 does real-time reflections without ray tracing.

 

Hitman 2 ray tracing, LUL. It's reflections have nothing on this bad boy..

 

Ray tracing is great stuff, but I suspect it won’t be prime time ready for another 6 years or so. 4K made its entrance what circa 2012, we are just now starting to get the horsepower to push those frames, and not even in all cases. The industry is being tugged in 3 different directions (4K, VR, RT) and we do not have the power to accommodate all three. I wish they would pick one, perfect, and move on to the next item instead of spreading GPU resources so thin that it doesn’t do anything all that well.

 

4K is just brute force performance iteration, we're pretty much there now with current rendering tech with the 2080ti (and frankly a few of the lesser top tier cards). We were bound to get there just on node improvements. VR is the same thing, just more brute force optimizations with scanline rendering just rendering two scenes at once at a different aspect for the lenses. RT is the only one of the three that truly needs a new technology approach to pull it off at any semblance of speed.

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews...attlefield_V_Tides_of_War_RTX_DXR_Raytracing/

Huge RTX/DXR update in BFV. The 2070 now produces a playable experience even at 1440p. Nvidia has said they are continuing to tweak the performance and we will see future improvements.

It’s unfortunate for AMD that they aren’t getting involved sooner. They have said they will bring ray tracing but by that time it seems Nvidia will have laid the ground work and eco system if you will. Games will be developed first with Nvidia in mind and it will be the new “game works” with games running worse on AMD hardware.

 

No it's not. Ray tracing is bs and nobody needs it. Even after the patch with better performance, the frametimes are garbage.

As you saw on hitman 2, there are ways of doing the same ray tracing is doing without losing tons of performance, that method will likely be the norm, rather than ray tracing.

 

Not really. While DXR performance has improved, it comes at a cost of visual quality compared to before the patch. Performance with ray tracing enabled is still half of what it is when it's disabled. Overall, this is a ground out rather than a strikeout.

 

eh? I don't see all those crowd objects being reflected in car windows or anything.. This is just a weak attempt at bashing nVidia. Sure it's 1st generation RTX, it'll improve, but lets just realize they are trying to move the needle here in a big way. It's like you guys are sitting here looking at individual trees and you can't see the forest. No one is forcing anyone to buy these cards. If you don't want to spend the money on a luxury item (a $600+ video card is a luxury item.. ) then buy a 1060 crank some visuals down a little and play practically EVERY GAME in existence just fine.

 

The graphics cards start to get fast enough for 4K. It was right on time with <new features - see RTX> who slow down the speed for further be able to sell new cards And I don't bash Nvidia. They are still the only choice. AMD is down for counting and fiddling in the blind. Same as hit by a knock out.

 

The 2080ti is plenty fast enough for 4K. The 2080 and 1080ti in some games is already fast enough for 4K. If you want 4K@60 you have options. I just like that nVidia is trying to do new things to improve rendering quality. Most of the games I play are single player story based RPGs or single player FPS/Action Adventure. I don't need competitive level frame times and frame rates. For people that do, just turn off RTX and get a 2080ti? Or even something cheaper...