Review in Progress: Why Skyrim is a Great RPG and why its heaps and bounds ahead of Oblivion.

Just want to make this thread to express how epic this game is. Off the bat that yes, graphics are underwhelming for those of us who were expecting witcher 2 graphics. But this issue has less to do with what I'm here to express in this thread; graphics will be resolved in time by mods so I don't expect to find issues with graphics for long. (edit, game already looks 2x better than vanilla with mods that are have been release, notably FXAA post processing which drastically improve how textures LOOK in game as well as changing the filtering of game engine to achieve the atmospheric color of your taste)

--------------------------------------------------
Regarding overall scope and feel of the game.
--------------------------------------------------

That aside. Holy shoot, I'm about 26 hours in and I've begun to feel the epicness that will enthrall me for the rest of my play-through. I've barely touched on the main quest, been mainly doing side quest in towns I've encountered; recently started college of winterhold line to naturally progress my mage. So here I am expecting the same fetch quests akin to the mage guild's line from oblivion, but amazingly I was instead through into discovering an intrigue (no spoilers) that threw me into another intrigue for a powerful artifact. And let me say, the journey for discovering the lore as well as the epic boss encounters that followed suit were some of the my best experiences in RPG.

I am excited to say that before this point, I had a high opinion of what side quests were going to be like, given that I've partaken on quite a few good ones already (mystery in the lighthouse near winterhold was a pleasant one indeed), but since my recently experiences involving the winterhold quest line, I'm beginning to see this pattern of a stream of good side questing blotted with epic ones. And I'm really looking forward to just playing more Skyrim.

Honestly, this game is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oblivion. Discovering your dragonborn powers is a great way to facilitate the want of exploring; and against the backdrop of great sidequesting that fills in the lore, character and politics of the multitude of worlds Skyrim in engulfed in, I feel like these artifacts I'm hunting for or the mysteries I'm unraveling have meaning. These were things that were missing in oblivion and crucial ingrediants to a well made and remarkable RPG. I feel like all these elements are here in Skyrim and don't expect to see them disappear for the next hundreds of hours.

/exclamation of Skyrim

\on oblivion.

I want to take a few lines to express how utterly ridiculous this game Oblivion (shivering isle excluded). Looking back, I realized that the slightly empty sensation of playing Oblivion was the result of core theme of the game carrying over to the various fabrics of gameplay. Honestly, did you guys feel like you were a lackey the entire time of Oblivion? I would have must prefered to be Martin, for he was the hero, not me. Sure I closed oblivion gates, but who actually developed through the occasion of an empire on the brink of otherworldly invasion, raising from obscurity against the shadow of a father slain to eventually defeating the biggest evil unleashed upon the realm. Who met a poetically justified, kingly death of self sacrifice? Who actually set the preceding lore that were to shape the world of skyrim that we're playing in now. I'd much rather be that guy. Thankful, this doesn't seem to be the case with Skyrim as all signs in the setting point to otherwise. (I'd be sorely disappointed if this turns out to be wrong though)

I really hope RPG developers in general can realize that the quality of the game world can only stretch as far as some of the most fundamental LITERARY mechanics that paint the lens of us players. Yes I am a college student; I'd imagine that most of RPG players are intelligent and appreciate the type of things I'd look for in this experience too. But ya honestly, the most fundamental aspects of literature, setting, development, tension, clix, etc, the things we learned to tell a good book and a bad book apart; they make a world of difference in the final product that is an RPG Game. Im so glad that Bethesda has decided to involve me in the story that is Skyrim.

--------------------
Combat Mechanics
--------------------
This is a difficult section to review. When I think about skyrim's combat in regards to Oblivions, I can say it is an overall improvement. However if I compare skyrim's combat to those of other action RPGs out there, it seems to fall short. Rather than giving you my opinion on this section, its simply to just list key features of Skyrim's combat so you can decide for yourself.

Luckily I'm playing an arcane mage with skills in magic, melee and archery. I can give a pretty good overview of each area though not as comprehensive as someone who entirely focused on one branch. To give you an overall view of how combat progresses as you level. Each level you are able to pick a perk in the 20 different branches that can modify core gameplay mechanics.

Melee:
includes 1 handed weapon + shield, dual wielding, and 2 handed weapon style.

-Animation
Combat animation is cluncky, you swing your weapon based on mouse click, this is in real time, but the action does not feel smooth. There is 3 animations, left swing, right swing, downswing. Other than that, there is a kill special kill animation that sets in occasionally that takes you to third person view in slow motion as you perform a finishing hit. There seem to be 5-6 different finisher animations.

- Mechanics
You can perform a powerful attack by holding down the mouse button. This drains your stamina but your attack is much more powerful. This does add a degree of complexity when deciding which attribute to level (health, Magicka, Stamina). There are also perks you can choose as you level which enhances your combat prowess, such as doing more damage with 1 handed weapons, increasing critical strike chance, decreasing stamina cost for power attacks. The main problem here is that even though the melee perks are well thought out and offer a degree of depth to customization, there really lacks a physical feedback to the player that your are stronger (animation stays the same, nothing really changes about the fundamental way of approaching combat).

-Overall verdict

I think melee is by far the weakest point of Skyrim combat. The other areas of approaching: stealth, archery and magic is much more refined and interesting.

Stealth

Stealth is usually used in conjunction with archery and with daggers when your character is highly proficient in stealth. Some key perks including being able to run faster while sneaking, being able to perform rolls while sneaking, increasing backstab damage, and becoming much harder to detect.

- Animation
The main animation you notice is the sneaking animation, which is done quite well. This is probably the most realistic animation in the game.

- Mechanics
Sneaking involves toggling crouch, after which you enter into sneak mode and become much harder to detect. A variety of things factor into your stealth, such as the type of armor you're wearing (heavy armor make more noise), casting magic (also makes noise), your proximity to light, your stealth proficiency, and other factors such as spells, which can modify your sneakiness.

Performing attacks with a bow or dagger while fully stealthed increases your damage to 2x and 15x respectively.
Perks in the stealth tree are quite good, as they progressively change the way your character approaches stealth. Without giving too much away, you start out as a stealth character who really needs to watch your distance and pay attention to light sources. As you approach mastery of the skill, you can play much more like a ninja, sneaking at running speeds, doing rolls, and using special attacks gained through perks to 1 shot tough enemies.

- Verdict
Overall, sneaking feel like a much more satisfying mechanic. This is mainly due to level progression that makes you feel like you much more capable.

Archery
Ranged bow attacks. It is by nature a slower and planned process than melee. Bows require time to be fully drawn out. Your power and range depends on this timing. You also move much slower with the bow drawn. Perks give you welcoming abilities such as the ability to zoom, a momentary slow -time effect when you aim, drawing faster, and various on hit effects for your arrows (such as stagger/paralyze).

Animation - Standard affair. Slowing down time when you aim is a cool addition.

Mechanics - Archery is difficult in this game, especially in the beginning. Without the slow time perk, it is very hard to hit moving enemies. The time-power trade off for drawing your bow does make combat more interesting. Imagine the different approach you'd have to take against enemies who don't notice you, enemies who comprise mostly of melee fights, enemies who comprise mostly of range fighters, etc. The great thing about starting weak is that progressing becomes very rewarding, especially given that almost every perk in the archery tree helps you in combat. As a result, by the time you master archery, you are more agile, you gain the ability to stop enemies in their tracks through on hit effects, and you will do alot of damage.

Verdict - archery is well done, better than most other RPGs out there. Archery is more involved and your skill progression is rewarding.

Magic
Toughest section to critique. Magic has the five different schools: destruction, conjuration, illusion, restoration, alteration. You can't really just pick one school and stick to it since the difficulty in skyrim (adept or above is a must) requires you to have different tricks up your sleive. So magic really requries you to think about the combination of spells that will make yourself effective in combat. This combination is further strengthened by the perk system. Diversifying too much means that each school of magic won't see the benefit of mastery. You really have to pick 2-3 and stick with them.

Spells are cast by holding down the mouse button while energy gathers, and then releasing. This is inherently different than other RPGS that have you press a button and produce instant results.

Another interesting note is that dual casting is in this game. You can combine two of the same spells for a much more powerful attack, or just cast two different spells at the same time. For each school, combining spells create different results, ie for destruction, spells become more powerful, for conjuration, time is increased, etc.

Animation: spells look decent.

Mechanic: The key strenght of magic is that it really can allow you to play which ever way you want. Magic can both be the core or supplement of your style. For example, if you want to focus in sneaking + archery, you might pick up the illusion school, which allows you to create false images. Or you might pick up alteration to muffle the sound of your footsteps.

Magic users can also summon etherial swords, 2 handed axes or bows. These weapons are comparable to the highest graded weapons in the game, but disappears after a certain time frame- until you caste them again. Etherial bows do not require real arrows. Battle mages of this sort and choose to increase the effectiveness of etherial weapons through perks and even add special effects to etherial weapons.

By the same token mages can alter physical defense. Spells can increase armor. And perks in the school of alteration can increase these further while adding magical defenses as well.

Summoning creatures look very nice and can become stronger than most enemies you encounter. Perks in this school increases the effectiveness and time of that your summon can stay earthbound. Mastering this summons allows you to have 2 summons permenently.

Destruction spells - very vanila, your standard ice, fire, lightning spells.

-Verdict - spells are the whole are very useful, their associated perks also mostly interesting. The biggest exception is that destruction spells are very vanilla and boring, there is no innovation in that school of magic.

Dragon shouts

This is a school of power that every character has access to because it is intrinsic to the story of skyrim. Overall there are ~20 different shows with varying effects. You can only use one shot at a time and can't cycle through them as magic spells. You must wait for a shout's cooldown before using the same/different show.

- Verdict
Some shouts are very interesting as they becomes part of the core mechanic of solving dungeon puzzles in Skyrim. Shouts are also very powerful, as such you will look forward to unlocking new shots. They can make combat more interesting if used tactically to supplement your character's arsenal.

 

Thanks for the review. Unfortunately this is making me NOT want to wait for deals on this game.

 

Wait for the deals. It's a good game, but for me Witcher 2 still wins hands over fist on Skyrim for best RPG of 2011.

I really don't like the inventory and UI of Skyrim, it's atrocious. Visually Witcher 2 is just leaps and bounds ahead. Combat also goes to Witcher 2, Skyrim combat is just not that exciting. I'm not far into the story of Skyrim but it really didn't do anything to pull me in. Witcher 2 from the first was OMG, sexy! Then it was OMG how do I kill? Then it was RUN RUN RUN! Darn dragon, RUN!

Skyrim is like, yay, another boring RPG cut scene. Oh is that a dragon. Huh it is, but it's not attacking me. Oh someone is telling me to follow him. Wow, whatever. Now I'm on a journey to talk to someone for whatever reason. Yay... why am I doing this? No idea, but I guess I'll follow random dude to village and off through the snowy mountains. Hmmm barbarians and bandits attacking me, but I haven't a clue why. Oh how does alchemy work? Beats me, I guess I'll eat it.

In terms of controls and easy of playing, switching between weapons, sorting the inventory or doing anything like conversing or using any of the crafting mechanics, Skyrim ranks very low, rock bottom in comparison to DA:O, DA2 or Witcher 2 my opinion. Story might be fine, but this makes the game very annoying to me.

Hard to believe but IMO EA/BioWare spent a lot more time to make sure DA:O, DA2 would be a fun experience on the PC than Bethesda did, by 10 folds.

 

I got epic feeling from playing it as well.
I mean you just go into random direction find a cave, get into it and BOOOOM! it turns out that this cave got a long history, there are explorers that lived and died there, you read their journals, find some chambers, notes, puzzles, a hidden path that leads you... somewhere... then you see waterfalls, some dwarven ruins and find keys that you need to explore all over the world and a companion that you can pickpocket and just leave to die because you want all the treasure... BUT that cave isnt really over yet, you keep going deeper and then you climb up and take some hidden route picking master lock finding some new creatures you never saw, you get to the last big bad guy and... turns out that he is GOOD and you are tricked and you need to go back and kill the other dude, but he ran away and.... And thats just a freaking random cave near the road with some side quests!

Every quest is a story like no other. No stupid kill 10 ghouls, kill bad guy bring his head. Just wow!

Witcher 2 isnt a game, its a fkin movie, you just need to step in time to time and do some "yes-no-yes-ok, i am going" talking + bash some heads. RPG where you cant go through a bush near a town because "world ended there". In all honesty they could make graphic even better and remove fighting alltogether. Not to mention my system gave me 20fps with everything on LOWEST for the first month or two (didnt care since then, maybe they patched something till now).

Truth is, however, you ran in straight line there. Just like the whole game pretty much.
I got really pissed of in witcher 2 when...

Spoiler

Fighting that another killer of kings me being on full hp and he is on 1% and then "cut scene" he hits me, i drop dying and he runs. WHAT THE FK!!!! THAT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN HEDIDNTHAVEACHANCE!!! I had a bow to finish him off and he even had a poison ticking on him and i had a trap there to finish him. . arghhhh stupid game

 

I don't even think that's a valid comparison. Skyrim is nothing like Witcher 2.

It would be like saying MW3 is a better shooter than GTA 4. They both involve shooting, but that's where the similarities end. Witcher and Skyrim both involve inventory managment and character development, but that's it.

 

Great review, this game is the best RPG of the year hands down. So much to do, so much immersion. Only flaw is the infamous bethesda bugs

 

This.

I enjoyed the witcher 2 tremendously, and I think its definitely worthy of a GOTY. However, I don't think gamers have to choose between the two games, as they are quite different.

Witcher 2 has a set lore, developed characters since it has the lore of novels backing it. Hence it becomes a more directed experience because there is a set story in motion. You as the main character experience the game through Geralt's lens and is motivated in finding the out the truth behind the political intrigue surrending the story. The story is propelled forward every step of the way, your actions constantly move the story foward. The choices that the game gives you to do so is tremendous but it's really a story driven game.

Skyrim has lore, but the premise of the game isn't directed. There is a back drop of an uncoming apocalypse which centers you as its hero, but the when/how or finding out your destiny isn't directed and up to the player. Skyrim is really about the journey of discovering where the main story filters through and provide meaning to your actions.

As for GOTY, I really don't know at this point. Maybe when I finish the game I can decide.

As far, I'm incline to favor Witcher 2 mainly because of CDPROJECT RED is the best developing studio, they put tons of work into the Witcher 2 with patches and extra content, they support PC gaming far more than any other company out there.

 

Man, I just wish people coupld play Dark souls too. Skyrim is a great RPG no doubt but graphics aside, the combat could use some work.

In the end its another game you can spend the following hundreds of hours easily.

 

It's among the few games I wish it was cross-platform. I refuse to buy a PS3. Maybe someday someone will decide porting it to PC might be a good idea.

 

I think it's by design choice; all previous TES games have fairly simple CLICK CLICK CLICK combat, and if they make this significantly harder, most people would complain rather than embrace. They could have easily put in e.g. Mount&Blade combat into Skyrim, but that would give most people a huge headache I think.

Combat is indeed revamped though, archery is much more visceral now, as are stealth kills and magic.

 

Good review +rep.

Mr. Mysterious

 

its not about making it harder its about making it more flashy.
They could:
a) make it more flashy like every 3rd attack your character jumps into the air and making a crushing attacking or does 360 spin with 2 blades EVEN if it didnt do any extra damage
b) on the other hand letting people do some fairly simple combos like lmb lmb rmb or rmb rmb lmb wouldnt make anyone complain either.

As i said in some other thread letting non damaging spells cast with weapon in hands would be fairly cool as well just as well as bidning specific weapon sets to a key.

 

I'm sure either of those latter 2 ideas would have been implemented if they even cared about their pc customers.

 

You can bind favorites to a key... and the other suggestion is hardly PC specific, so I'm not sure what your meaning is.

 

How does SKYRIM compare to Oblivion in terms of: gameplay ? Controls? Physics? etc... Is SKYRIM just a pretty Oblivion? OR is it an entirely different beast that cannot be compared to its' predecessors [like comparing Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2].


Thinking of buying Oblivion @ $5 on STEAM to see whether I would like SKYRIM or not. However, if Oblivion is nothing like SKYRIM, please let me know

 

There are a lot of similarities and also a lot of differences. Skyrim also fixes a lot of the things that people didn't like about Oblivion. I would say that if you don't like Oblivion at all, you probably won't like Skyrim, but if you like Oblivion aside from a few complaints about leveling, you'll probably like Skyrim.

 

Thanks Hockeymass, really appreciate it

 

busy playing skyrim atm, will cover combat asap.

 

I abhore Skyrim's combat. What is wrong with just using a skill bar? The quick skill choosing is so consolized, it's pathetic. The combat is not very dynamic as the game pauses as you go through the stupidist UI menu to choose a different weapon or spell. This is awful. Just plain awful.

 

YOU CAN BIND THINGS FROM THE FAVORITES MENU TO THE NUMBER KEYS.

 

Press Q.

Mouse over a skill/weapon/shield you want to bind.

Press the number 1~9 that you want to bind the skill/weapon/shield to.

Good day,

 

Now why didn't they just tell me this from the first second the game starts?

 

I think its just me =/ but I never did understand how games like Fallout and Elder Scrolls were fun ._. I just dont see the reason to ever play it.

 

It's ok, exploring giant worlds and doing epic quests for great glory is not for everyone.

 

Lol you better run before the dragon warriors in this thread freeze you or fireball you

Mr. Mysterious

 

I don't understand the appeal yet. I have no idea why I'm on a journey in this game, there isn't anything compelling yet.

 

I think people need to enjoy the game or don't. Stop flooding every ES topic with what you don't like about it. Look we get it, we've read your opinion at least 5x now.

 

oh you...I see what youre trying to do

@Mysterious, pfft ill just you know, eat my sandviches and pump out bullets from Sascha at those dragon slayin' nubs D:

 

Because it's more than a "game".

The traditional definition of a video game does not apply to Bethesda games, because instead of giving you an interactive movie (most games), you set off and make your own movie/story in games like Oblivion/Fallout/Skyrim.

People like it because of the freedom to do/be whatever you want.


Here's an analogy: do you find a day off where people you know specifically invite you to a party or event more fun, or a day off where no one asks you about anything and you are free to do whatever more fun? Different people, different drifts.

And don't bring multiplayer games up, those are completely irrelevant in the comparisons.

 

I am pretty sure this is a flame bait but i ll answer
You see... RPG is about role playing, means you imagine that you are left alone in the dark and grim world, choose a role on the scene and role-play it enjoying variety of ways world interacts with your character and how character interacts with the world.

The more roles you can freely choose, the richer the interaction -- the better the rpg.

If you dont like fallout and tes series i guess you can say that you dont like RPG genre. Mass effect, Witcher and other so called RPGs are extremely limiting compared to them, like you can choose how to kill but you cant even choose who, thats closer to 3d action if you ask me.

 

I personally have no desire to play TF2. I don't find it fun because I'm hyper-competitive and don't like being bested.

 

I'm pretty sure in a previous thread he stated that he preferred JRPGs, which aren't any less RPG than Fall Out or TES, they're just different.

I personally can't stand FO3/NV, and didn't care much for morrowind/oblivion, but I'm still going to give skyrim a chance eventually.

I feel that the FO games compromised story and character development for "open world" feel. I don't really see how you can have a good RPG without a fulfilling story or character plot.

Of course I still prefer multiplayer/pvp games (I know irrelevant) because E-Tears are worth more than 1000 single player achiements.

 

lol this gen JRPGs are terrible, absolutely atrocious. I found myself replaying old SNES/PS/PS2 JRPGs because I couldn't stand what S/E and other devs are doing to the genre.

 

I haven't played any "new gen" JRPGs, except FF13 which I don't think was that great.

I have been playing/replaying a lot of classics lately:
Chrono Trigger (amazing), Star Ocean: Second Story (also amazing), The Illusion of Gaia (pretty good), FF8 (decent so far), Mario RPG (Not bad), Secret of mana (I actually don't like this one very much, even though it was highly recommended), Legend of Legaia (I like the combat idea, but it just seems to drag on, and having only 3 characters is a little weak).

 

Play the "Tales of" games. IMO they completely own FF in every way, shape, and form. The first one is Tales of Phantasia which was waaaaaaaaaaayyyy ahead of its time. The combat style, story, etc. Amazing, it's simply amazing and don't get me started on FF13 >_< It brings up nothing but pure rage

 

Well there is an "RPG" sticker that you can put on the game box and there are actual games where you can RP and those are really few. Although i am not even sure what jrpg is. I played final fantasy if that counts like 7,8,9 or smth, needless to say its nothing like skyrim.

 

It's just a different type of RPG. It stands for Japanese Role Playing Game (JRPG). The plot typically pulls from traditional Japanese lore and the fighting system is turn based. Western RPG's are like Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, etc. They are also amazing...tbh they have been the only type of RPG over the last 10 years worth playing..well maybe not 10 but at least 5+

 

Fallout to Mass Effect 2 is like Full Access vs Read only if you ask me.
So ye you can call it different type of RPG but it would be closer to call ME2 a different type of 3d action.

 

Fallout to Mass Effect 2 is like RPG vs Dating Simulator. Lol.

 

Tales of Phantasia was excellent. The only other Tales game I played was Destiny and it was alright, but felt like a step back rather than a step forwards.

I've always been a big fan of the Secret of Mana series. The ones I've played have been a lot of fun - the ultimate is Seiken Densetsu 3 - which would have been Secret of Mana 2 on Super Nintendo but Square decided to release Secret of Evermore in the West instead (still a good game and worth playing).

The original Star Ocean for SNES is a pretty good one too.

And as for the debate about Bethesda's RPG's, I can understand the detractors - it's definitely not a hand-holding linear experience so the main storyline is only a small portion of what's going on in the game (an early analogue would be the Ultima series). You can fault the game if the storyline is really weak and the whole thing is just a collection of generic quests to create the illusion of a wide-open world that's really just a bunch of flat stand-ups in every direction, but if there's a good amount of work and effort put into the storyline and your biggest complaint is that there isn't any ONE thing that really pulls you in, then it's probably just an issue of the genre being unsuited to your personal wants and needs.

@OP: It appears from the last paragraph of your original post that your idea of "literary" is something that follows well-established tropes well rather than something that challenges them but maybe doesn't succeed. I encourage you to challenge your preconceptions and your experience of past literature, be it novel, film, video game, etc., and consider the value of innovation in storytelling. Of course, I have yet to play Oblivion, so maybe I'm misreading your comments from lack of shared experience, but I urge you to recognize that the established way is not the only way; after all, today's innovation is taken for granted tomorrow.

 

Just finished section on combat.

 

+Rep good review so far. After about 20hrs into the game I like it better overall than Oblivion. The skill tree though I'm not very fond of yet. Would have preferred something like Morrowinds where you can basically control every aspect of your character development.