STEAM: You are Dead to Me:(

Well, I understand your Shop Lifting analogy, but you are comparing apples to oranges. I was not trying to do anything that I knew was wrong or illegal, there was no malfeasance...

I think a better anaolgy would be, say your at a fancy grocery store and they have one of those really expensive olive bars, there are no signs saying you can't sample, your not sure if you can but you figure what the heck, I'll try the sun dried tomato olive....but the employee behind the deli counter catches you and tells you that it is prohibited in the terms of service they keep in the back of the store in the managers office, and kicks you out of the store and keeps the cart full of groceries you just paid for.

And another thing that is annoying me...Steam Support, 3-5 business days to get a reply? What kind of customer service is that? There is no other way then email to contact them, no phone numbers, no humans to speak to...you simply put in a ticket and wait 3-5 days for an answer...and everything I have read on the Steam Forums, is you first wait 3-5 days and get an auto cut n paste response, that does not address anything you have written, then you wait another 3-5 days to get a reply when you question the auto response, the second response from steam is just a couple of lines reiterating their policy, and this cycle goes on and on until the end user gives up in frustration...

 

Hopefully you get a quick/useful reply. A year or so ago, I purchased the Orange Box off Amazon. When I wen to install it, it said the key that came with it was invalid (or already in use, can't quite remember). Basically, it said I wasn't allowed to install the game that I JUST PURCHASED because it was an "illegal" copy (one already in use, I think). I emailed Steam support with all sorts of pictures and receipts showing proof of purchase and ownership, and they responded the next day and validated my key so I could install the games. I wish you similar luck with your responses.

 

Steam is NOT the law. If it were a fine by law enforcement fine, I get that. But for Steam to act as the law, that's a whole different story.

Steam hosts your games and acts as the store and DRM, plain and simple. Same thing if you bought a bunch of games from Best Buy, they caught you switching stickers to get one half off, and come to your house and confiscate all the games you've bought from them. That is not their job and it is illegal as far as I know.

 

What Steam does in the disabling of accounts, thereby denying its users services they paid for, isn't too legal, either.

 

Contact your credit~bank services associated with the Steam account in ?uestion, file a complaint, and firmly request a charge back tallying the cost of loss -- dare I say, stolen -- services.

 

Agree 100% +Rep. I just hope STEAM doesn't pull something like this on me ill go Bruce Lee on them

The Direct2Drive things looks pretty tempting, though i have yet to try it.

 

Name: Steam
Phone: (425) 889-9642
Fax: (425) 827-4843
Address: PO Box 1688
Bellevue, WA 98009
Website: www.steampowered.com
www.valvesoftware.com
Principal: Mr Doug Valente
Customer Contact: Mr Doug Valente - (425) 889-9642 or [email protected]
Email Address: [email protected]
File Open Date: March 2003
Industry Classification: Internet Services, Computer Software Publishers & Developers
BBB Accreditation: This company is not a BBB Accredited business.
Additional DBA Names: Steampowered.com
Valve Corporation
Valve LLC
Valve Software

-- Valve Corp's BBB listing

It's worth sending a copy of that e-mail here (FAO: Chris Walters).

 

Just because you accidentally ran over someones dog does not mean they can steal your car.

At the very least, I would be expecting Valve to reimberse for all those other games you bought in the past, if they really don't want to reactivate your account.

 

agree'd (ten)

 

I have UT3 and I went to register it with Steam and now I am locked out of my account. Not sure what happend. I bought UT3 at Frys.

Up until now everything worked.

Also it seems like it's impossible to get any customer support from Steam.

It's all automated.

I hope steam gets this fixed or I lost a few games and sadly I will not support steam anymore. Why sadly? Because up until now Steam has been great and it will be a bummer to leave the community.

 

I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but this may not be directly your fault but can still be considered a tad naive.

All this hate talk going on about steam is totally disregarding the fact that the transaction that occurred was apparently a digital purchase of a digital gift that is illegal to be traded in any way shape or form.

If the ebay seller mentioned anything about him selling a steam "gift" then you should have either looked into it or at least wondered what it entailed.

Steam intended the steam 'gifts' to be just that, gifts.

If the seller didn't mention that at all, then you should contact ebay or something and try to kick that guy in the nuts.

 

RISE up and take action +1 lol i really am repping ....(see here )

 

Please don't toss around the word illegal when it is not applicable. Buying and selling property you own is perfectly legal. Whether or not it violates a terms of service agreement is not a question of legality. Terms of service agreements aren't even recognized or honored in some nations.

The problem with steam is that they are attempting to "Sell" games, which gives property rights to the buyer. What they are doing, when you account for the terms of service, is renting. This is why their business model will eventually fail. You can't tell someone you're selling them something and then make their own property unavailable for use. That would be theft.

I myself ran afoul of their idiotic policies when one of their automatic patches made a game useless. If I own the game, I should be able to reinstall from a previous patch (this is against steam policy). I currently have an attorney general complaint filed against the company because they refused to honor the game's warranty (repair or replacement) through both their support system and a BBB complaint.


The short of it is, just buy your game in a brick and mortar store.

 

Why the heck would you want to reinstall a game without the latest updates? As far I know, patches are there to fix bugs, and to improve gameplay...

 

Yes, most people would think that. However it is not always the case. Sometimes a developer won't fully test a patch before releasing it. This means the patch could easily make the game unplayable. This was the case with Fallout3, for me anyway, which became less stable and more unplayable with every patch.

I've been around awhile, so I've seen this happen pretty routinely in the past (prior to steam). It has also been the case that mods break on a patch. If you own the core game through steam, this can effectively end gameplay until the mod is rewritten (which may be never).

 

I'm sorry to say this, but reading this particular case, and others around:
Steam deserves to be hacked!

 

Eh maybe, but the proper legal response is to file BBB and Attorney General complaints against the company. This will be reflected in the public record and make far more of a difference.

 

Steam isn't the law, but the contract you entered into them with IS the law. And that contract specifies that you lose your games, so if it's legal then yeah it IS the law.

If you signed a contract with your neighbor that said if you ran over their dog they got your car, that would probably be legal and enforcable. They would not be stealing your car, they would be satisfying the terms of the contract you signed.


Remember: You accepted their terms of service. If you didn't like it, you should not have signed it. If you did not believe it to be legal, you should not have signed it. If you didn't know what it was, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE SIGNED IT.

The fact that the contract is probably illegal is BOTH of your faults. It is their fault for making an illegal contract, it is your fault for signing it, and thereby effectively recognizing that it is legal. The courts are not there to point at companies and say "haw haw," they are there to say "you're both morons."

Ignorance is not a defense for breaking the law. Intentional ignorance is even less of a mitigating factor.

 

Pardon my demeanor, but the contentious claim of yours which I have emphasized are comically inaccurate.

I take it you are unfamiliar with the legal principal "unjust enrichment":

Unjust enrichment has three elements. First, the plaintiff must have provided the defendant with something of value while expecting compensation in return. Second, the defendant must have acknowledged, accepted, and benefited from whatever the plaintiff provided. Third, the plaintiff must show that it would be inequitable or unconscionable for the defendant to enjoy the benefit of the plaintiff's actions without paying for it. A court will closely examine the facts of each case before awarding this remedy and will deny claims for unjust enrichment that frustrate public policy or violate the law. (Source*)

The OP is entitled to restitution and compensation for the products he legally purchased while using the service provided by the Steam client.

 

Here is the reply I waited 48hours for from steam...exactly as expected...they did not read a single word in the 2 page long explanation I sent them...SO Caveat Emptor to everyone with Steam...

Basically whatever had gone on with the codes that were being sold on Ebay, is now directly my fault according to steam ,and I am complicit and responsible for the whatever underhanded practices that are going on...Lovely...not only am I hosed on all sides ,I am now also a criminal!

Its like if you bought something on ebay that turned out to be stolen, having the authorities not only confiscate the item (which I beleive is current law, you buy something you have no idea its stolen, doesn't matter, you still lose the item), but then remove everything you have every bought online that was legitimate as well while they were at your house...

​

"Hello,

A staff member has replied to your question:

Hello Matt,

Thank you for contacting Steam Support.

We have found activity in your Steam account related to [cheating][piracy][fraudulent credit card use][sharing of accounts and/or CD Keys]. Per the Steam Subscriber Agreement, we have disabled your account and any games contained in it. Your account will not be reactivated.

The Steam Subscriber Agreement can be found at:
http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=subscriber_agreement

In addition to violation of contract, activities on your account may violate federal law and state law. If such activities persist, Valve reserves the right to refer the matter to authorities."

 

that's complete BS, i hope you can get something done about this. It amazes me that you can no longer play games that you payed for, and then people wonder why so many are getting their games illegally.

 

Are you sure he actually purchased the products, and not simply licensed the service which included access to X games? Because I'm pretty sure that's what the contract says.

See if he had actually purchased the games, and had them hosted on the Steam site, while steam gave him acces remotly, then yes if steam shut down their service they would be required to recompense him for HIS data stored on their site.

You don't have much recourse here. You have 2 options:

A) Start a media circus and wait for steam to fold under public pressure.

B) File suit in a court of law against Steam, contending that the original contract you signed was illegal (upon further review, of course).

Of course, what I would do is:

and then I would lol

 

Isn't it nice how they steal your games and then threaten you with federal and state law?

Here are a couple of ways you can strike back at them.

1) The most obvious is to file a complaint with the BBB, as already suggested. Your complaint alone probably won't do you much good, but if enough of them pile up, maybe someone will take notice.

2) As sykion suggested, write a letter to your local newspaper or television station about how your games were taken from you. The thing to stress is not whether you were right or wrong, but that Valve has the power to take every game any individual has ever bought on Steam with a single stroke -- without contacting the authorities, without a trial to determine whether you actually did anything bad, without even talking to you (you had to contact them). They are judge, jury and executioner and unless you want to spend a lot of time and money to take them to court, you have nobody to appeal to.

There are few things most varieties of Evil fear more than being brought to light. I think if more people knew Valve not only can do such things, but does in fact do them, they'd be a lot more reluctant to use Steam. It's a risk with even one game, but with every game you've ever bought from them? This may be too much for all but the most rabid fans who believe Valve can do no wrong.

 

creating a steam forum crapstorm never hurts.

 

The thing is why would you buy an electronic game on ebay... If it was a physical item yea, you can't never be too sure with ebay seller no matter how good of a rating. Anyways, you did break steam agreement, they should have just block that game not your whole account. The thing is we all agree to steam user agreement, maybe you should have looked further into buying a steam game on ebay, once you break steam has the rights to do what they like.

 

Sorry about what's going on...form up an online petition and I'm sure there are several people who have read this thread and make purchases on Steam (including me) who would be willing to sign it...meanwhile, I'll send an e-mail to customer support voicing my concern...that final threat of legal action is really over the top...(of course, I've found Steam's customer support to be next to completely pointless...even when moving my Steam installation which should be a routine, easy thing for them...get out your laminated flowchart...)

And thank you for the warning...I'm too addicted to the weekend sale to give up on Steam...and a couple of my favorite games will only work on XP if you use the Steam version...

When I first bought Half-Life 2, I was extremely upset with Valve...that was my first taste of online activation and Steam...I bought the box in a store, but couldn't play it until I setup an online account...rubbish...I didn't buy anything from Steam until last fall...

 

Pretty much standard response as expected tbh, plow on and contact them again.

Found this website for ya which has a telephone number for Value, dont know if its much use but worth a try.

http://www.valvesoftware.com/contact.html

 

You can always have a local attorney contact them.

 

Steam does phrase all game purchases as actual purchases, and at retail price. They don't simply offer access to them. Many games include their own license agreements and warranties, which steam cannot override anyway. It would be sort of like if you purchased a game at a brick and mortar store, only to discover that later they will break into your house and smash your game and all the other games you bought from them.

 

Well, thanks for all the input, suggestions and help all...I am not sure what I am going to do about it at this point.

On a positive note we just found out the gender of our baby today (its a girl) due on August 8th

Not sure how much of this headache I want to deal with now..

At least you all can at least learn from my error, and be very careful with Steam....its almost bittersweet, really really liked Steam for many years before two days ago

 

Congrats on the girl

You can file an attorney general complaint in the state of Washington (where Steam does business): http://www.atg.wa.gov/FileAComplaint.aspx

It'll be entered into public record. So if you're sure you're in the right, it is the step to take if the BBB can't help you (which it probably can't).

 

Thanks

I am going to file a complaint at the least, I already emailed them back a tongue lashing at their libelous accusations of malfeasance...

And If I can get my act together, I might write up a compelling narrative and send it to some news organizations..

 

Based on their response they have every legal right and responsibility to defend their position.

Even if you took them to court I think that the judge would see their perspective and respect it.


Have to be extremely careful when buying games these days.

Save your receipts.
Save your packaging.

CYA.

Sucks.

 

If this is the case I suggest that he contact Steam by TELEPHONE (much more difficult to brush you off) and demand that while your account is canceled (not much you can do about that) ask that they recompense or allow you access to all of your games which you purchased through them. Demand access, call it stealing that they are withholding them, ask to speak to manager, tell them that you have already reported them to better buisness buereau, ect.

However, reading their agreement seems to imply that Steam itself possesses the software.

POSSIBLE LOOPHOLE:

When you sign a game's individual EULA you are now leasing the game itself directly from the publisher (ie. Electronic Arts). This would counter any argument that the games you are playing are property of Steam itself.



Steam does address this in their subscription contract:

2. In the case of a one-time purchase of a product license (e.g., purchase of a single game) from Valve, Valve may choose to terminate or cancel your Subscription in its entirety or may terminate or cancel only a portion of the Subscription (e.g., access to the software via Steam) and Valve may, but is not obligated to, provide access (for a limited period of time) to the download of a stand-alone version of the software and content associated with such one-time purchase.

Furthermore:

NEITHER VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, NOR THEIR AFFILIATES SHALL BE LIABLE IN ANY WAY FOR LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND RESULTING FROM THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE STEAM, YOUR ACCOUNT, YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS AND THE STEAM SOFTWARE INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, LOSS OF GOODWILL, WORK STOPPAGE, COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, OR ANY AND ALL OTHER COMMERCIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES. IN NO EVENT WILL VALVE BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, SPECIAL, PUNITIVE, EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, OR ANY OTHER DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH STEAM, STEAM SOFTWARE, MERCHANDISE THAT YOU ACQUIRE VIA STEAM, ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH, OR THE DELAY OR INABILITY TO USE MERCHANDISE OR ANY INFORMATION, EVEN IN THE EVENT OF FAULT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY, BREACH OF CONTRACT, OR BREACH OF VALVE'S WARRANTY AND EVEN IF VALVE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. THESE LIMITATIONS AND EXCLUSIONS REGARDING DAMAGES APPLY EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS.


While I doubt the fact that they are stealing your stuff is legal...

You have 2 options.

A) not suggested: sue

B) suggested: Contact the game manufacturers directly, and ask them for new copies of your game, providing your steam receipt. Note that you do have a license from them, and purchased their product. Might work.

Do you have their CD keys?

You can possibly download ISO images of the disks online if you do, and just use the keys. Or if you don't have the keys, just ask the manufacturers for new keys, citing that your key was stolen (by a major corperation). You have a right to backup your own software (but apparently not a right to decrypt it for this purpose...???).

It's complicated, but try the manufactuerse.

 

This is ridiculous, basically Guilty until proven innocent. And people wonder why PC games are suffering (yes they are people, I've lived through 25 years of PC gaming history). A 16, 17, or 18 year old has to worry about some legal crap that nobody understands in the first place? Come on! People want to PLAY games, not be handcuffed with the risk that they might lose their entire collection. Considering the hundreds of dollars I've spent on Steam, I'm tempted to send them a piece of my mind. They can't ban me for THAT can they? Or is it in the fine print somewhere?

Not only that, the fact that they can't even give a person the time of day to give them an opportunity to plead their case is so spineless to me.


sikyon - it is people like you that I always hate when it comes to stuff like this.

There is always legal rhetoric and then there's common sense.

Just because it is written does not mean it is legally binding. If I sold you a door to your house, and in the fine print if it said that if you changed the locks, I get the right to your whole house, then is that really legally binding? NO!

Get your head out of your and come back after you've come back to reality.

 

There's also something called "Possession is 9/10th of the law"

In this case the control lies with steam. If you want your stuff back, you have to sue them (obviously an untenable course of action). Therefore, since the resources you would expend outweigh the benefit you would return, you are screwed.

Furthermore, the terms of service are NOT obviously illegal. They are in fact a grey area, and may or may not be illegal. Your simplification to the absurd is... well, absurd. You MIGHT win in court. You might very well not.

Honestly, what good is "back patting" going to do? "There there, you've been screwed, but at least you are in the right!"

No, it's much better to understand how you were screwed and what you can do about it. And not to get people's hopes up that they actually were in the right when it's not clear at all.

I suggest that you get your head out of your and come back after you've come back to reality.

Edit:

Also, if you don't like it, don't play it. You don't have some sort of right to video games. It is not an inalienable right to be able to play video games, nor own a TV, nor own a house, nor even to live above the poverty line. It is a privilege to play games, and if you don't want to agree to their terms, or put control in their hands, just don't do it anyways. In a capitalist society, that will learn them.

 

Sikyon...

Someone (and by someone I mean either someone with money or a class action suit) really needs to challenge these verbal legal shields in which these companies try and shroud themselves with...I mean come on, they are responsible for absolutely nothing...Do you think If you bought a car, and in the contract it said these same things about no responsibility for any outcomes whatsoever, the manufacturer would not be liable if their cars exploded and burned people alive, just because the buyer signed off on thier agreement? Basically, until there is a large enough suit that can reshape and reform the legalility of this, Steam and everyone else like steam, will continue to get away with it...it is from a fundamental perspective utterly ridiculous that they can breach all common forms of contract law, simply by saying if you use this we not only guarantee you nothing, we can take everything back from you and keep your money. It is utterly insane...but I fear that our market, this PC games market is just not widespread or important enough at the moment to become a pertinent issue, no one knows or really cares right now how badly the consumer can get screwed in this arena.

 

Guys, please don't personally attack one another. It's ok to disagree, but do so civilly.

 

Various parties are looking into drawing up lawsuits against EULA's in general, and the "leasing" of software. This wouldn't really apply to steam, becuase you really are leasing their subscription (as it is an active service), you'd have to look into another part like them unreasonably cutting off access to the stuff you bought.

What has happened is more or less like you putting a jewel in a safety deposit box, and then the bank not letting you access to it because you violated their contract, so you may not step foot into the bank again.

But since you're leasing the software from the publisher, and you do own it, it is now a grey area as to whether or not it is legal for you to download the games with torrents.

On the one hand, it is infact legal to obtain copies of software you own for your own usage purposes. On the other hand, you "lease" it, and it is illegal to break encryption (?!?!?! contradictory). However I doubt a judge will punish you for downloading software, even pirated software, that you have paid for (no damage to company whatsoever).

I tihnk you know what you are morally justified in doing.

 

For more legal stuff on this digital stuff, look up Second Life and it's legal mess.. there might be some precedent if I remember correctly.

 

That blows.

Phone steam and complain. Do it everyday until they give your account back.

 

Notice what sikyon highlighted there. I think you are in a position that if you call Valve, you can likely persuade them to allow you to download the legit games you've purchased. It may take some verbal wrangling and getting to the right people, but it's possible you can at least get a hold of what's yours.

 

The Consumerist has some sage advise on how to get a small claims filed and what is involved. It is apparently not all that difficult and far more expensive for the large company to defend against.

 

Dude I have the EXACT same problem, but with FEAR 2. My account was also disabled on Tuesday this week.

What was the name of the seller on ebay? PM me if you don't want to share in public. It might be the same guy.

Anyway, I have opened a support ticket and will keep reopening it until my account comes back, except FEAR 2 which was the problematic purchase. This is utterly unbelievable for me. I have a lot of other games which I purchased before FEAR 2 and everything is 100% legit and paid for!

You might want to send an email to Gabe Newell, Valve's CEO. You can find his email at steampowered.com if you do a search. I did, but I'm not sure if it's real. I did send him one last night anyway. He's been known to respond to people about stuff so I'm holding my fingers crossed. Also check out some sort of discussion about my problem here:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=742578

At the rate it's going, the thread might be locked/erased... but oh well.

Anyway, my AIM is HeatSurge and my icq is 8722997 if you want to talk.

 

Blah blah blah blah Steam sucks. Sooner or later, everyone will realize that.

 

Actually, I thought it was great before my WHOLE account was disabled.

I mean, that's complete nonsense. I was fully aware that, if there's a problem, the specific game would be disabled - no biggie.

But my WHOLE ACCOUNT?!

 

Meh, when I got caughted in this whole thing, they disabled both of my accounts..

 

Depending on the number of games and value of them, I'd consider a small claims court filing. I had an issue with my credit card company many months ago. I looked up the appropriate government parties that were supposed to protect the consumer, wrote the credit card bank a letter pleading my case, and cc'd it to the gov't agency. After that it was amazing how quickly they rectified the situation that was at first considered my fault, and quickly turned into their error admittedly.

Unfortunately it's all about playing the game, and that game means time and money. Find the right agency that is supposed to protect YOU and do it for free, but cause them more headache than its worth for them, and you will get a fast reaction.

 

It could be possible for the company to retaliate against a small claims suit by pressing charges for being involved in an illegal transaction or something (not that they would necessarily win). It's doubtful that they would but that is a deterrent you should be aware of.

 

Well this story has certainly wavered my trust in Steam, anyone could have made this mistake and I have over $200 worth of games in my account.

Also, Steam does have an in-build backup function for creating backups of any games in your account which can be customised to fit on DVD's or any other particular medium and used to restore them at a later date. I wonder what happens if your account is disabled and you attempt to restore previously backed up games on a newly created account? I'm guessing the backup saves some kind of account identifier which stops this happening.