Spore: DRM causing mass pirating?

http://torrentfreak.com/spore-most-pirated-game-ever-thanks-to-drm-080913/

Preview:

Seems as though EA's most recent blockbuster game may be stabbing itself in the foot with the intricate DRM it installs on legitimate copies.

I have yet to play it, since I keep hearing it has the depth of a flash game, but the DRM makes me think I will never play the game at all.

It's just somewhat disgusting that people who follow the rules get sand thrown in their face while pirates get the better, less annoying, game.

 

If I may ask, what DRM does it have that makes it so bad?

 

It only allows you to install it 3 times, period. That's the worst of it, there's more.

 

Having never experienced the game myself, I am not 100% sure. But i remember right before release people talking about a DRM that makes the game only installable 3 times, and maybe even checks the internet every couple days to check to see if your copy, is in fact, a legal copy.

Therefore, people with the "pirated edition" have a crack that removes the burden of check ups and installation limit.

This is all quite sad really.

 

So someone who happens to have to wipe their hd clean or who's hard drive fails 3 times is screwed.

 

It's a bull**** excuse not to buy the game.

Buy the game, download the rootkit free version off of the internet. Everyone wins!

 

It's SecuROM with the same deal as Mass Effect -- you have to authenticate each installation online and you're limited to some small number of installations (3? 5?) before it stops working and you have to call EA to ask for more. Changing the hardware or OS counts as a separate installation most of the time (though sometimes it doesn't -- they refuse to say what changes trigger a re-authentication). And, of course, you have all of the usual SecuROM incompatibilities with certain hardware and software as well as garbage in your registry, etc. etc..

IMHO, it's not that big a deal. The most annoying part of this with Mass Effect is that Vista (correctly!) interprets what the DRM tries to do as something it should not automatically allow (it is sending information about your computer to EA without asking you) and you have to run it in administrator mode the first time or it will crash.

 

i wouldnt waste any more time on this game then reading this article.

 

At least Spore doesn't use StarForce protection; the scourge of every PC gamer!

 

Any chance this game will go up on Steam then?

 

What's really amazing about DRM is the cost to research and implement DRM is almost costing the music/game industry as much as the pirating itself. Not to mention the 50 employees EA now has to hire full time to answer irrate phone calls from customers trying to reinstall their games. DRM pisses me off just the same as a $3 calculator packaged in $40 of hard plastic packaging.

Industries who **** on their customers deserve to fail. Gaming companies with pathetic DRM like EA deserves to fail.

I

 

A very restrictive SecuROM v7.x variant.

 

is this best excuse the pirates can come up with?

 

it's number 1 in the top 100 on piratebay

 

Hmmm...There are lots of better, recently released games that they could be pirating.

(GTR:E, and Crysis Warhead come to mind)

Why do you think they're all pirating Spore if not to spite EA + SecuROM?

 

your use of the word better is subjective. why do you think the sims series is the best selling game of all time? cossacks? myst? populous? rollercoaster tycoon? theme park? they all sold better than any blockbuster FPS game can ever dream of.

it could be that spore is just one of those would-like-to-try but not buy kind of game.

 

Calling Spore an unsuccessful game for casuals may be true, but how in any way does your post relate to the topic of Spore, DRM, + piracy?

 

Wow, I've formatted/reinstalled OS's at least twenty times this year on my G1S.

I'd be doomed if I were interested in this game.

 

Spore was just never really interesting to me. Either way DRM can KILL games if not properly implemented.

I'm sure more people would have bought the game if it would have used a simple CD-KEY to install and that's it. However, for access to the on-line features a valid CD-KEY would be required.

Sure it would be easier for people to pirate the game and play it but I bet that more people would actually buy it instead of pirate it.

 

so everyone is arguing that downloading, unpacking, mounting, finding necessary crack is FAR MORE EASIER than going through the DRM? gotcha.

 

it relates to your response because you were saying there are far more appealing games to download than spore when in actuality people have different taste thus find games other than crysis far more appealing to them. and above all people you think CASUAL players would know anything about the DRM or go out of their way to download instead? ok.

 

Uh, what? When I buy software I ALWAYS rip an ISO because it makes future installs so much faster, unpacking is unattended if you download something so it's not like you have to do work, and as for cracks - half the time you have to use them even on legit software, since increasing amounts of games want you to have the disc in the drive for NO REASON. Considering this is a notebook forum I am sure everyone understands what a pain it is to have to carry around discs just to play games. So... your point?

 

Actually yeah.

You would be surprised how many people find that leaving your pc on all night and then while your at work/school then coming home mounting and installing is much easier than going to the store, buying and then having that awful feeling of intrusion after installing.

And it's 50$ cheaper for them too, and they aren't restricted to 3 installs!

I however do not feel like downloading it, or going out to buy it.

 

so how many times do you do "future installs"? because doing another install takes so much longer than creating an iso right? because iso takes up no room. and as for no-cd cracks - there is nothing wrong with using it if you want to. this is about DRM discouraging people from buying a game whether be it in store or through online. do you seriously think people who pay for their games will be somehow turned off by DRM? personally i'm glad they put some sort of protection on it and i hope they find ways to make track down individual and give out random fine/arrests. and do you honestly think pirates will stop stealing if games came w/o DRM or serial or whatever? you know what i think? i think thieves will always be thieves and this DRM crap is just another excuse to justify their action. So... your point?

edit: oh and i believe the restriction is for installation on three different machines.

 

You sort of proved my point for me.

1. We agree that Spore is a sort of "casual" game

2. "Casual" gamers tend not to know about torrents+warez, cracks, how to go about pirating, etc.

3. Spore is however being pirated a lot, seemingly by the exact type of people (pirates) who generally don't go for this type of game.

Why?

It sure seems that this is happening due to EA + SecuROM pissing them off with increasingly restrictive DRM'd products and earning their ire with an "example" being made of Spore.

Not just the pirating, but things like the Amazon reviews, etc.


(edited for clarity)

 

lol so lets see,

1) casual gamers don't know about pirating

2) pirates don't like this kind of game

3) spore is being pirated by pirates who don't like this kind of game?

so the correct answer must be:

pirates are pirating this kind game that they don't even enjoy because it has a DRM on it which makes it so much more attractive!

 

Well, on much of my software I do lots of future installs. I change my computer every 4-6 months, sometimes even less, and on top of that I usually get one or two reformats in the middle. Ripping an ISO is unattended, many times software installation is not. So I can start ripping then go to sleep, while I can't run an installer then go to sleep. Don't know what you mean by "because an iso takes up no room," sounds to me like sarcasm, but seeing as I have 3TB of hard drive space it's absolutely no concern of mine... I do not think that removing the DRM would make it less pirated, no, but I think that EA is shooting themselves in the foot here... see, it's one of the reasons many people will buy Windows and still used a cracked version when they install - don't have to deal with all the activation BS; same goes for games. You're not looking at the full situation. Many pirates download to try and then later buy, I know, all of my co-workers fit this description. They however, are included in this protest of DRM and have refused to purchase spore. Why should they pay money when the only additional feature is going to be hindrance of future installs? I think what companies need to do is start accepting piracy as a fact instead of fighting it so much, find a way to use it to its advantage. Go back to when games came on floppy disks, the only copy protection was a message that said "Please don't pirate this game." People pirated, the companies still made money. Those developers have tried increasingly over the years to prevent piracy, with hopes of gaining the business of the pirate crowd. As you can see with spore, the DRM will always be broken. It's time to throw in the towel and accept that some cheap people will never pay for their games, but they need to treat their legitimate consumers like valued customers, not like thieves. I think your understanding of the issue is very flawed.

 

Read the rest of my post.

Some of the reason it's being done is as a sort of protest. Just like the 2000+ 1-star Amazon.com reviews Spore recieved.

This is NOT the 1st time something like this happened.

Bioshock got the same treatment for using a similar DRM implementation.

Guess what happened in Bioshock's case? The company gave-in. They increased the # of installs + provided a DRM "install-revoke" tool.

 

No, not everyone.

What you're saying is just so arrogant and ignorant. Seriously, read some of the Amazon reviews. Hopefully it'll open your eyes as to why people feel the need to pirate. If not, I doubt much else will.

 

Also, it is NOT for 3 different machines. It's 3 installs. PERIOD. You clearly know little about this issue yet are willing to speak so loudly.

 

What's so bad about StarForce? I know it doesn't get along with Vista very well, but I haven't had any problems with it on XP.

Well hopefully it isn't far more easier. But if the DRM won't let you install the game anymore because you've changed computers/operating systems too many times, then yes, it probably is easier than waiting for the vendor to answer the phone for 45 minutes and doing telephone reactivation - which you'd probably have to do several times if you hit the limit of 3 installs early on.

For DRM that just requires the CD in, it's a matter of convenience, not easiness. Sure it's easier to just put the CD in - provided the CD is there. If you don't have it with you, well, that's part of the reason the games I play for short breaks often are the ones that don't require a CD. And in the long run, it actually does save you time to find a CD-in-drive-bypass than to switch CD's every time.

I don't download complete games (unless of course they are legitimately free) and do use the CD's to install the game. Illegally downloading a game is no way to show appreciation for a product. But saddling consumers with restrictions is no way to show them appreciation.

Downloading to try is another issue IMO. I take the stance that if a company doesn't make a demo, then they're losing the chance to convince me from actual experience that it's a great game.

I probably wouldn't buy Spore regardless of the DRM situation. But considering I've had six OS installs in the past year (not that I wanted to) and that my favorite games have definitely been installed more than three times over the years, this draconian of DRM is more than enough to convince me not to buy it, as buying it is as good as actively supporting it.

 

i don't need to know of the "matter" at all to speak loudly against pirating. PERIOD. people simply don't pirate games, play, then go pay for it after they're done. who are you to judge which game is worthy of being bought? do you pirate movies too then go watch it at a theater if it's worthy of being paid? it's not companies job to create demos or create something that's worth your while. just like the movies, you take the risk of paying for something good, or something bad. there's no such thing as try and then buy if it's really worth it. that's called pirating. so please save me from the lecture on protesting or setting an example or whatever. you wanted to be treated like valued customer and not thieves? WELL STOP TRYING THEIR GAMES WITHOUT PAYING FIRST.

 

Yes, yes they do. Many do.

Usually not in the theater, but many people also download movies and the ones they like they buy on DVD. Again, I personally know many people who fit this category.

But don't you see? You should be able to try before you buy. You're allowed to test drive a car before you buy it, and that's not piracy. You eventually pay the manufacturer the full price for their product. It IS the company's job to create something worth our while; this is a free market meaning if your product sucks, you go out of business. Why should be have to buy everything that comes out and just let it be a crapshoot whether it's worthwhile or not? Then developers have no motivation at all to make worthwhile games or products.


You've got a very skewed view of the way free market and consumerism works, my friend. Either that, or you sell a crappy product and want to be allowed to sell it without a guarantee or an ability for your customers to try it first.

 

While I bought and enjoy Spore, BHD, your perspective is no more valuable then that of your opponents. Draconian DRM schemes like this are simply bad. Once I buy a product, it should be mine to do whatever the hell I want with it short of copying and redistributing it. If you want to sell me what amounts to 3 installation licenses, then that is what you should call it, and you should charge me accordingly. Companies like EA and the RIAA (anyone remember the CD rootkit fiasco?) should really be taken to court for false advertising or something. They aren't really selling you a game any more, they are selling you a limited set of installation licenses.

Edit: Hep, your view of the free market is pretty skewed too. A demo is a form of marketing. You as a consumer have no "right" to expect anything of the sort. A car dealership doesn't have to give you a test drive either. Game companies are just coming to the conclusion these days that the cost and delays associated with a demo are not justified by the returns on investment of the marketing effort, aka the demo. Free market doesn't mean people are forced to give you everything you want, it means that they can sell any product they want for any price they want, and you can choose to buy it or not.

 

It's not an excuse, it's a statement. For example, see Forbes's article on this:

They have a point, though I don't think it will work out the way they think (the corporate overlords very rarely admit that they've made a mistake and are far more likely to blame it on someone else, like the developers).

I haven't actually ever tried going through the process you describe, but I occasionally try to help people out on the Mass Effect tech support forums (where you will find maybe 1 developer reply per 20 complaints) and here are my observations regarding SecuROM:

1) If your system has little trouble with it (like mine so far; only the initial crash) then the DRM is relatively invisible.

2) If your system does have trouble with it, but the problem is something well known (like having certain perfectly legitimate CD-burner software installed), then you can solve it, albeit in an unpleasant way (e.g. uninstalling said software and reinstalling it it when you need it).

3) If your system has trouble with it and it is something specific to your system, then God help you because your fellow players can't and developers and publishers won't (I'm not sure if they even can).

IMO, only in the first case would it be less of a hassle to buy the game (ignoring the money). In the third case, most people who don't just give up and delete the cursed thing eventually decide that the dark side has much to offer them.


P.S. It seems Forbes has a less strict filter on curses than this place. You can always look at the link if you're curious what the censored insult was.

 

It works both ways...a great example is how rampant illegal copies of XP/Vista are in China. Yes, Microsoft isn't making much money there...but they are the #1 and dominant OS in that country. So in a way, its better for their image, and product in the long term. There's a find balance between the two, and I do agree having this kind of DRM defeats the purpose of having PC games in the first place. However, you have to ask yourself would there be less piraters of Spore without the DRM anyway?

Plus, those reviews on Amazon don't take into consideration the actual game period, making them retarded and stupid. Mostly probably written by one spambot.

 

Your posts are making less and less sense throughout this thread. I'm not sure if English is your native tongue, but if at all possible, please make an effort to use better grammar.

Yes, it's true, you don't " need to know of the "matter"" (about whatever subject) before you pontificate your opinion to others...

It sure helps however (to actually know what you're talking about), if you wish to convince anyone of anything.

 

and "i know of many (fill in the blank here) too." if you don't like it don't buy it. if a company fails why care?

also you "try it" before you buy it because there's an option to do so. you "drive it" before you buy it because there's an option to do so. you cannot DEMAND to try it, OR drive it unless there is an option to do so.

anyways, no point in arguing. i may be wrong or i may be right but not worth wasting my breath anymore.

 

I bought spore, had some hardware issues with the OS and had to reinstall Vista several times, and that darn DRM got in my way.

So I pirated a copy off isohunt.com and installed that

I agree with the try before you buy theory. Tons of people do it. In fact, I refuse to buy an album without listening to it first. IMO, pirating and never buying is wrong, but if you are a legal owner one way or another, it makes no difference to me.

 

StarForce is a security measure that installs a virtual CD drive without the user's permission as part of its verification method. It is a particularly invasive form of protection that has been known to cause certain optical drives to fail. For these reasons, StarForce is no longer seen on many game titles these days. You can read more about StarForce on Wikipedia.

Any consumer has this right.

Whether you can compare movies to games is questionable; games have replay value, while movies are one-use services.

It is the company's job to let customers know what kind of product they're buying; providing a demo is the most effective way of doing this and is, in my opinion, the best solution to this whole problem. Lastly, it is in the company's interest and well-being to create something worth my while; otherwise I wouldn't buy it.

Some people who commit game piracy would call this "making your own demo."

Please save me from your abysmal grammar and syntax.

There is no such thing as stealing software; only copyright infringement. When you steal something, you are denying the victim of their property. When a person pirates software, they are using a copy of the software; therefore, the victim is not denied of any property. The crime takes place when you duplicate intellectual property that has been protected by copyright laws.

 

Yes, and everyone of those 500 000 pirates has stated DRM as the reason for their piracy.

 

And no offense Spore looks like a mediocre game, I wouldn't buy it. But nor would I pirate it. I maintain my stance that anyone who pirates PC games and actually tries to justify it can go play in traffic. I actually have more respect for the people who pirate and don't say anything or at least are humble about it.

I probably buy 2-3 PC games a year. So I spend roughly about $150 a year for countless hours of entertainment. Do you realize how much other crap we waste money on that doesn't give us close to the same entertainment? Like a professional sports game, or a date...., man Ive probably even blown $50 on fast food in 1 week before. Those 10 hamburgers weren't as good as CoD4 lemme tell you that.

Pirating just doesn't make much sense to me. Lowers the quality of PC games, angers developers, and spits on fellow PC gamers who actually shell out money for their games.

 

Mass Effect had the same system and they removed it. I am quite sure that if you hit your install limit all it takes is a phone call to get it to pass.

Plus as time passes, I am sure they will release the DRM check thing like they did with Mass Effect.

 

It is a phone call. I am tired of activating FSX this way though. I don't want to read my 48-digit activation key to somebody who learned english last week, and expect to understand the 48-digit key back! I highly disagree with the Key limitations. Somebody will release a hack that allows bypassing the key check altogether anyways.

Only legitimate way of pirating IMO: Crack after you purchase the game. I hate dealing with activations. I agree fully with link1313 (Rammstein?) that developers deserve getting paid for what they made. And if the game rocks, they get tons of $$$! If it sucks, they at least get to put food on their table.

 

And I think pirating is just an excuse for multi-million (or even billion) dollar companies to try and squeeze (read: bend over and rape) every last penny out of their customers. I also think it's just another excuse for them to install extremely intrusive and restrictive software with their products. If I buy the game, why should I be restricted in any way with how many times I can install it?

 

What would be really interesting is a market study where they took the same exact game, but boxed one version with clearly marked and well explained DRM, and another version with no DRM, then see how they do against each other, and how much they have to mark down the DRM version to make it sell.

 

Look at how well Apple did when it started offering non DRM songs off iTunes... Consumers absolutely hate DRM in every way, shape, and form. I couldn't listen to my legal music in my truck because it was protected! Bull Crap!

 

160 kbps mp3? I am better off downloading FLAC for free listening & then buying the CD on Sale from stores.

Oh btw..i love it when these companies lose sales because they treat their customers like thieves.

Its a known fact.. DRM only hurts the Good people..bad people download illegally anyway.

 

it's really not up to you to dictate how a game should be sold.. if they want to charge you $50 for three install licenses then by all means they have every right to do just that. if they want to charge you $100 for three week play period then they can do that too. when you purchase a game, you're paying for the game and the restrictions that come with the game. just because you can pay $50 for the right to own almost every game out there doesn't mean every company is obligated to do the same. heck, they can even charge you pay-per-play with grip load of anti-piracy software if they choose to. the point is, it's up to the company themselves to decide how to package their product. just because you don't agree with their method doesn't necessarily give you the right to illegally download them online.

how about we all go down to mcdonald's and try their big mac before deciding on whether we should pay for it or not? after all, it's mcdonald's responsibility to satisfy our hunger and provide something that's worth our hard earned money. i will probably not pay for it though, since they come in those prohibitively frustrating little boxes that's impossible to get it open .

 

I don't think so -- at least not in the way they're currently selling these things, without anything written about it on the box and the customer unable to return open products. Note that this is not what they're doing: you are not limited to 3 install licenses, you're limited to three systems and if that limit is exhausted, you can call them for more authentications. Without that last provision, what they're doing may actually be illegal in some places.

Not every contract is legal or enforceable, particularly in places where consumer rights are stronger than those in the US.