Spore: DRM causing mass pirating?

Are you a gamer? Would you continue to pay just to play games if all publishers had such a policy? I've been playing PC games for years and recently I've been playing less because of crap like this. I wanted to buy Mass Effect, I wanted to buy Spore (and I ignorantly bought Bioshock and the Spore CC). But I'm not going to pay to basically rent them for $50. Now I don't want to stop PC gaming either. So what's left for me to do? Bow down to their will and forget PC gaming or give in to their DRMs? Or do I protest and do something that'll hit them where it hurts?

How would you like it if other businesses dictated how their products were sold similar to companies like EA? Pay 2000 dollars to use your laptop for 1 year, pay 30,000 dollars to use your car for a year, etc. etc. etc. According to your logic, you'd be fine with it, it's their right, right?

 

I personally want businesses and government organizations to run my life and tell me what to do, when to do it, and how to do it. Wouldn't things be so much easier if they all just dictated our every action?

It simply comes down to the fact that consumers don't want to be controlled and told what to do with something they purchased. Movie rentals and a hamburger are different things. They don't cost $30-60, and I usually know what I'm getting into when I buy it. And I'm fine purchasing everything. But if movie rentals started de-activating after watching it one time, I don't think I'd ever rent a movie again. DRM is a bad idea. Even giants like Apple realize this.

 

You conveniently forget that it's your (and my) right not to purchase it, and not to play it. The one thing that dictates what a company does is money, and surely this DRM is cutting into the profits that EA stands to make. Furthermore, it tarnishes their image, which may be worse for a company than lousy sales for a single product.

There's never an excuse to steal - and everyone who writes "I'm pirating it to show those corporate bigwigs what I think about their DRM" is just looking for a quick justification to their inappropriate actions.

Simply, if I'm selling a product, and you don't like it, you have every right to not purchase it, just as I have every right to alter what I am selling, including price and terms of use.

 

my logic is a simple one. buy it if you want and don't buy it if you don't. i won't buy if it they enforce those restrictions but that doesn't mean i'm going to steal their games from them.

the company has done nothing wrong or harmful to you personally in any way, shape, or form. why do you feel it is necessary to "hit them where it hurts"?? they can develop an amazing game and keep it for themselves if they choose to.

if you created something that's appealing to others, do you want everyone telling you how to sell your product? but it's yours right? what if someone else started distributing your product through torrent and made ton of money off advertising? even more money than you make? would you be fine?

it's their game, they made it, they own the content. but you say i want what they have so they have to give it to me in a form that i want it in or i'm going to steal. they left me no choice!

 

Then it is up to the consumers to never purchase software that has such ridiculous DRM techniques. If I'm selling a car that only lets you open the doors once per hour and makes you call a hot line to open it again, and consumers don't buy it, do I whine that the consumers don't like it and don't wan't to have to call a number to open it? Or do I change my product to better incorporate the wants of paying consumers?

Like originally stated, piraters will be piraters, and there is little to do to stop them, no matter how much DRM one puts in it. Why punish those of us who purchased the game?

 

Exactly. That's certainly what EA and all the companies will learn sooner or later. I'm not saying that DRM is good, just that it's definitely not justification to pirate.

 

This thread was simply pointing out that one huge reason why this game has been pirated so much is because of the DRM. Whether it's a good reason to pirate or not doesn't really matter, the point is that the DRM is the reason.

 

I'm glad some people agree with me on this.

There is no reason the legitimate version should be WORSE than the pirate version. If they simply didn't have the **** DRM, stuck with a CD key, and had really awesome content for people who registered their games online... Then many people would buy it.

But a game with negative points for legit owners and a huge beacon of easy and clean for pirates is a weird old way of shooting your dog after telling it to fetch.

 

There is no excuse for pirating a game. But there also isn't a reason why an illegal version should be far more user friendly than a store bought version.

btw, I have absolutely no intention of getting Spore, legally or otherwise, because 1) That kind of copy protection is like having 'Don't f-ing buy me' on the box in giant letters and 2) The game has been overhyped to the point that it can only be a disappointment, and most reviews I've read agree and 3) I'm a poor college student who doesn't pirate games

 

listen, i have a intel x3100 igp. i will pirate this game as i dont even think it will run. i'll buy it if it runs, blame tech and hardware.

 

Whatever you position regarding the politics/legality of software piracy, it's pretty clear to me that this is a complete waste of money. How many millions did EA spend coming up with that DRM system? All they did was provide a challenge to bored, smart CS students someplace. Unless they truly believe that their DRM is unbreakable (which is completely unreasonable) why go through the expense? When they do something that ridiculous, people are inclined to pirate the software just out of spite.

If you ask a mountain climber why they climb mountains, some of them will answer "because it's there". All this DRM system does is provide a challenge to talented people.

They put the mountain there, the hackers climbed it, and then set up a helicopter service so others can get up the mountain with hardly any effort. I wonder if the people who cracked it even bothered playing it. Odds are they did it for fun.

My point is that all of this was completely predictable. Given that fact...what are they thinking?

 

/sigh

Spore sounded like an interesting game to me...

Something you could play single-player and then share the results.
Sometimes you need a good single-player game...


Here's one person who is going to skip something he is interested in BECAUSE OF THE DRM. That's right... the developer is LOSING money from this customer because they put DRM on something.

I am a professional... my time is worth something quite tangible.
Especially my free time right now which comes at a premium.
Spending the time hacking it will cost me more than simply buying it.

I'd rather pay the developers for a good game.
Too bad I'll never know if it is any good and have given up on the game because I refuse to hack it to not be treated like a criminal for being dumb enough to actually purchase the game.

 

A large portion of you are overlooking that the box isn't exactly explicit about the fact that it only includes 3 installations.

I am a 19 year old biochemistry student, working at BestBuy part-time (that gives you a good enough idea as to my monitary situation) but I have purchased a few games that I play regularly, even though I am entirely capable of pirating them: Company of Heroes, COH:OF, Dawn of War, CS: source, Half Life 2 etc...

Anyway, after reading this thread and hearing about spore's DRM, I checked the box at work. NOTHING, NOTHING ABOUT IT HAVING ONLY 3 INSTALLATIONS.

And some may say "its in the EULA" well, to see that would have to open the box and therefore void the return policy, at least BestBuy's...

(heres a link to a picture of the box)
http://spaceoddityblog.planets.gamespy.com/?p=787

Now ask yourselves, has a precedent been set in the gaming industry that would lead the average customer to understand that when they buy a game it has limited installations? Is this fair? SHOULDN'T IT BE STAMPED IN MORONICALLY big print on the front that there is a limited number of licenses?

 

Although DRM is largely unnecessary and at best, an inconvenience to the consumer and at worst, capable of disrupting a functional computer, I think the worst aspect of this is the viability of the authentication servers. We've already seen music DRM services go under (Microsoft, Yahoo) and eliminating their servers with sketchy follow-up. Where does EA (as well as others) stand on maintaining these? Will they be kept up for 100 years, 20 years, 5 years? Will the license I purchase from EA be rendered unusable in X amount of time? Will EA follow Steam and release their software licenses in the event of discontinuing service?

Thanks, but no thanks EA. You can keep DRM, and I'll keep $50.

 

that is ridiculous. (3 installs...)

I've reinstalled my operating system 3 times in the last year, as well as purchased 2 notebooks, one of which was broken after 15 days and had to be re-installed... coh? was re-installed each time, so that drm strikes me as ridiculous.

 

Don't worry, you'll can always get help from the trusty "GROUP".
LOL. Anyway, DOWN WITH DRM!

 

sure it is!, BTW as far as i remember most downloads already come packaged with a working crack and a valid CD key!!, as for unpacking, the whole process doesn't take more than 7-8 mins for almost every game..so in practice you don't have to worry about anything else...

 

Don't be fooled. Just because it doesn't say it on the box or in the EULA doesn't mean there are no install limits. It doesn't even say anything about Securom. It didn't say it on Bioshock, Mass Effect, or any other games, yet there was securom. I agree that companies should put in that statement to inform the consumers, but it would take up too much room on the back to explain it clearly, plus it makes the company look bad so it's best to hide it. I don't mind securom/drm, but it's the install limits that's bugging me.

I think this thread should be aimed at gaming and DRM in general rather than specifically for Spore. I'm planning on getting Red Alert 3, but I'm not sure anymore. I still play the original Red Alert game and god who knows how many times I've installed it on different computers + hardware changes over the past decade. If Red Alert 1 had DRM or more specifically "install limits", then by now it's a useless non-working product.

 

That's a scary thought about RA3. I'm really excited for it, I own pretty much all of the command and conquer games, and Red Alert 2 is probably my favorite game of all time. I've installed it literally HUNDREDS of times (because it goes on every computer that I ever own basically, seeing how low the system requirements are and how high the replayability is. If RA3 is DRMed in the same fashion as Mass Effect (wanted it and skipped it) and Spore (wanted it and skipped it) then maybe I will have to do the same with RA3...

 

It's kind of off-topic, but I think you are wrong in every sentence you wrote, so I won't be quoting them separately. And maybe the biggest reason for the piracy problem (IMVHO) is that most of the entertainment industry thinks like you and can't think outside their boxes. A pity, really.

 

That's outta left field. It's just a game; there's no such thing as a bullsh*t reason not to buy a game. And not wanting to promote invasive rootkits that install unannounced and can't be removed by ordinary consumers is certainly a grand old flag it's not bull*** to wave.

Your alternative, of buying it but not installing it apparently, would probably strike most people as absurd, and rightly so, because it gives them the worst of both worlds -- inability to use the game full(online) matched with paying full price for it. I could call it bull****, but one man's meat is another man's poison I guess.

 

Do you seriously think everyone who doesn't like rootkits installed on their computer without permission and with no way to get them off is a pirate?

I've never pirated anything and never will, and I was all set to buy the expensive Galactic Edition of this game until I read about the DRM. Now instead of enjoying my 80 bucks, EA can add another to the ledger of lost opportunities. Because it's not only this one game that I won't be buying from EA. It's everything they ever do so long as they keep this DRM crap up.

 

Good post. Me, I'm on my third laptop in a little less than a month, because I got two lemons in a row. I've done a ton of installing and uninstalling all my favorite programs before finding out the first two were lemons. And frankly, one of the ways I find out if a computer is a lemon or not is by loading my programs onto it and seeing if they will play!

If the timing were just a hair different and I had bought Spore before getting these new laptops, I'd at the very best be on my last install already. That's if I never tried it out on my desktop first(very unlikely). And you know what? I want to add another hard drive on this laptop. OUT OF INSTALLS.

God forbid I get an Express Card soundcard from Creative, or a docking station, etc. DRM is enough to scare you out of using your own computer the way you want to. It can make you wonder, especially if more and more software comes with it -- If I reformat or add or change something in my system -- what am I going to lose? And how many hours and phone expense do I want to spend on the phone trying to fix it, if it even can be fixed?

Forget entirely issues of invasion of privacy and warrants of merchantability, just for argument's sake. (I wouldn't agree to otherwise.) Forget DRM's peremptory disallowing of software it feels is unacceptable, like drive-imaging software. (Hell no!) Taken at its best, DRM can still dramatically effect our usability and control of our own machines. It represents an uncompensated, secretive, unremovable taking of private property from customers.

To which customers naturally and rightly say things on the order of everything from "Thanks a lot" to "Eff you!"

 

Ever tried this with the latest edition of Nero? I practically reeled back in terror just reading that! Doing that with Nero would be preposterously brutal. I doubt more than the tiniest fraction of people would do it. I think some would be left in tears or homicidal rage if they tried. I can't really think of anyone who wants to install burner software every time he cuts a CD either.

 

There are many reviews of the actual game there.

Whether you think talking about DRM in a game review is stupid or not, there will always be plenty of people to agree with you either way. In defense of those who think it's worth it, though, they are passionate about everyone's rights, not just their own. There have got to be better targets to shoot down than that.

 

Very interesting idea!

 

And what about the increasing amounts of DRM on all software? Isn't it going to be awesome when your legal burning software only allows 3 installs? Then you'll have to go back and forth between the programs you want to use. Or maybe, you'll have to buy a second copy of Windows, dual boot, then use one installation of Windows for burning software, etc, and the other for games. The future is here!

 

So I DL'd it from the spore website... Never even noticed said "draconian DRM" and yea, I have to pay EA a semiannual $339.58 subscription fee every other week because I keep reinstalling the game for ****s and giggles, but its worth it. Oh and yes, i also pirated it because I wanted to see both sides of the fence...

All I have to say is pirating = voting for Hillary... If thats too hard to understand, this website does not condone pirating.

Pirating is illegal.

Pirating is in other words, against the law...

I don't know why an argument needs to erupt over this... Its simple, pirating a game is not an acceptable form of protest, if it was, then rock bands wouldnt release anti govenment songs, they'd just pirate someone else's and use that.

This is turning into a novel, so Chapter 1
Please, please, please, stop trying to justify illegal activity. The only way I could possibly condone pirating the game is if it was done after the 3 install DRM was used. That however, is still illegal.

Now its time to not post on this forum for another 3 months because the once friendly people of this place make me feel as if my posts are not welcome.

Edit:
I really didn't pirate this game, I thought Will deserved to see part of my $50 in his sales figures

 

I don't think anybody is fighting to do something illegal here. I think the fight is to keep legal versions of applications at least halfway usable.

"All I have to say is pirating = voting for Hillary... " ??? As long as its not for obama...

 

I partially understand what your saying emike about the not fighting for somethign illegal, and the more i think about it the less angry I am that a large number of people are pirating.

However, in general I'm still very very much against pirating.

 

Are you serious? Do you know what art appropriation is? or sampling? or postmodernism?, ALMOST EVERY ARTIST PIRATES OTHER ARTIST'S WORK today. If you are going to draw illustrations to attempt to prove your incredibly idiotic point, do a little research first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(music)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appropriation_(art)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_modernism

Its not about civil disobedience, or protest, its about demand and customer satisfaction. If you impose your DRM people will hack it, or just avoid it, as Amazon's ratings prove.

People will do what they want in spite of corperation's and their lobbyists' death-grip on Washington. The day that people stop voting with their dollar is the day capitalism fails even more epicly than it has thus far.

 

DO we really need the 3 page (@ 30 per page) debate for this issue? There exists a simple solution that makes everyone happy...

Buy the game legitimately, and then patch the game to avoid DRM.

or avoid the game all together, so far with the reviews and ratings, the game doesn't seems all that attractive to worth even the hassle of finding a patch for it, let along paying for the game itself.

 

I wish I had pirated Spore before buying it. It's like a game from the 80's or 90's where they didn't obey simple game design paradigms (didn't really exist back then). Spore is the kind of game that respawns you in the middle of a firefight against overwhelming odds with no respawn/invincibility protection. It's the kind of game that is like a set of 5 Mario Party games strung into one step-by-step package. It's a game that *******izes what third person, RTS, adventure, and other genres are all about. Honestly, I've had more fun playing Flash games than I have with Spore. Yeah, it was great for cute laughs and early entertainment, but it's one big repetitive heap of bugs and missed opportunities. Kudos to the pirates for pissing EA off and shoving their DRM right in their face.

You really can't even remotely trust that EA will deliver a decent product anymore.

 

^ I felt they did a good job with C&C3, is Spore really that bad?

 

I couldn't agree more. Most of EA's games are perfect examples of bull**** media designed not to be artful, or innovative, but to solely be profitable. EA is the worst publisher/studio out there. They market small content packages (the Sims 2 crappy little upgrades for example) as full expansions and price them accordingly. Command and Conquer Generals still hasn't had all the game-breaking bugs removed from it...once they make some cash, they are out, with no concept of customer support or responsibility to buyers.

 

No way man. If you played the original Tiberium Sun then C&C 3 would be nothing but disappointment to you. And I'm not saying "oh blah blah, not true to the original," I definitely wanted change and new things... which I got. But C&C 3 is not a strategy game at all anymore, because there is no need for strategy... the same strat will work in any situation.
1) Build 50 of any unit
2) Move in

Tiberium sun was awesome because this didn't work, you pretty much all units had counters so if you moved in with 50 of a certain unit you might not even get to touch the other base if they had proper defenses set up. Red Alert 2 did an even better job of this, and Yuri's Revenge better than that.

So excited for RA3 but I am pretty sure I will just be let down.

 

I still like AOE2 for that same reason. Sure, the graphics are dated but strategically it still rules. Even if you walk in with 50 Paladin's, if the opponent has been diligent about scouting and seen it coming, he can easily stop them with 100 pikemen for 1/3rd the cost.

 

I tried to hit all the points
seeing how its EA name one good fps / other game thats held on strong for them. Other than there sports genre thats about all there good at.

trying to keep this simple / understandable as possible

As from a stand point from a reversing engineering. A key / serial isnt that hard to make. You just look through the code and see what its calling for it to work as a legit serial. (sorta simple explantion) Now you basically go through the code and add a couple of "walk through " holes. Other words you step over / block the authetication parts

Now you would think the orignal programmers would learn over time on how to deal with people cracking / making there own keygens. and they have but its only a matter of time before it gets cracked again.

I would have the game when installed locked to the HDD id and then when they wanted to install on another HDD or from a reformat they call and verify some stuff (basic idea just thrown out there )

Now for the DRM
need a client sorta like steam that needs to run and verify if the account is legit. All games bought for the acct is stored digitally
anti cheat system to prevent you from using a fake key / id
^^
in other words steam but revamped so its better

 

I remember playing Tiberium Sun as a kid; sure it had strategic depth and complexity. But, Command and Conquer 3 isn't that bad. Think, would 50 of any unit really work? Of course not. Then again, the game does have its flaws. For instance, superweapons are impossible to defend in multiplayer; and there are certain balancing issues among the units.

I have to agree with that; even today a multiplayer game of AOE2 is still really dynamic and challenging. Definitely a classic RTS.

 

Heres what you should do. Get up. Turn off your computer. Put on some shoes. Walk outside. Stand in the middle of the road (preferably in a blind spot). And when that semi comes into view don't move.

Hit them where it hurts? It does nothing but hurt PC gamers. Your the worst kind of person in this case, the type that blows DRM out of proportion and thinks they have no way around the limited hassle it entails (essentially having internet) other than to pirate the game and try to justify it. Your the reason ive had to wait 6 months extra to play GTA4. Argue that point.

 

Same to you.

 

Hit them where it hurts? It does nothing but hurt PC gamers. Your the worst kind of person in this case, the type that blows DRM out of proportion and thinks they have no way around the limited hassle it entails (essentially having internet) other than to pirate the game and try to justify it. Your the reason ive had to wait 6 months extra to play GTA4. Argue that point.

(or will you become suspiciously quiet like most pirates on the topic of delayed PC releases).

 

I do concur with earlier statements about C&C 3 being dumbed down since the Tiberian Sun days. I didn't really care for Tiberian Sun, but at least in that game strategy was an absolute necessity. Age of Empires 2 and Rise of Nations were games that I found to be a bit more appealing as Westwood dove off into these overly colorful and grandiose campy presentations that didn't really add anything to the game. I maintain that Rise of Nations was the best RTS game EVER developed since it always seemed to last the right length of time and there were various ways of playing.

And this is supposed to help your cause how? I think you just demonstrated why anti-piracy doesn't work and why it gets worse on some products. If I were a pirate and I read your message, I would increase my piracy just to spite you and **** you off more because there's nothing you can do to stop the piracy. Rather than getting at the root of why piracy happens, this vicious cycle begins in which makes it worse for the company and more amusing for the pirate. EA has to man up to the plate and try to remedy all the bridges they've burned over the past decade and a half instead of saying they're a new company and acting the same.

Blaming pirates for delayed PC launches? With all the cash consoles bring in, particularly the Wii and also the Xbox with its Live service and all those paid downloadables, the console companies can throw all sorts of cash for exclusives and timed exclusives. They can easily demonstrate the size of their player base and identify a standard set of hardware in which makes development very easy. The same cannot be said for PC's where there's so much variance. To attribute delays in PC titles to piracy is just mind boggling. Things are much more complex than that.

 

The piracy problem is something that will never end... Here's why... Is not because ppl like free things (although they do), but because the non-internationality of companies... What i mean is, in USA is easy to buy a game for the RIGHT price... You can do it directly at BestBuy, Walmart, and several other stores along the whole country (and now Steam)... The same happends in the majority of Europe... However, take the example of latin america... Here games, IF YOU FIND THEM, will cost 3, 4 and even 5 times the original price.. There's no good distribution. They're sold hardly in main cities, and even there is HARD TO FIND... For example, a Crysis copy will cost the equivalent of 120~150 $ if you find it (here in Venezuela)... So, is in places like my country where the piracy have the battle won... Same goes to the rest of LatinAmerica, Asia, and many other places...

However, one thing to notice is, even when piracy gives you the oportunity to play the game for free, you're only getting a demo, because, for example with Spore, you wont be able to connect to the sporepedia... Games like UT3, TF2, GOW where the FUN part is to play through internet only worth if you buy them...

 

are you like a drama queen? lol. i hope all PC game devs set their eyes on creating MMO to spite consumers like you hahahahaha.

 

MMOs are terrible and boring in my opinion. What now?

 

Yes "hit them where it hurts." For me, "they" is just EA. Simply complaining in words (probably whining in your P.O.V.) doesn't do much against them. In Mass Effect's case they removed the 10 days activation and then moved on to Spore. After the Amazon reviews they upped the limit to 5 for Red Alert 3. Basically nothing's changed. Trying to show them that they're possibly losing customers and profit by the number of people using torrents/P2P to download Spore... It may or may not work since it hasn't really been tried and emphasized until Spore. It's up to EA and how they choose to continue responding.

I don't feel like I'm blowing DRM out of proportion. I see a problem with this specific type of DRM. I see it for what it is, who it's coming from, and I don't like it. I understand and appreciate a necessity for companies to protect their investment, but this variation of DRM hurts PC gamers like me. Things like CD Keys and disc checks, I have no problems with and have been dealing with legally since its ubiquity. As for piracy hurting PC gamers I'll agree to an extent; it's not solely piracy since it's been around and will exist at least until some sort of breakthrough in dynamic programming for implementing DRMs. Companies like and especially EA share a blame in the way they choose to react to piracy, which in this case hurts PC gamers too.

Anyway you can continue targeting me to your heart's content, I see no point in adding to this argument/thread any further, which I was doing up until you decided to single me out specifically and wish death upon me. You and other anti-pirates will feel the way you do with your K.I.S.S. attitude/view/logic. You won't change my views on the matter and I won't change yours either. Only thing left to say is that I haven't wished death on those with opposing views simply because they don't feel the same way I do, get help.

 

Care to explain how you get MMO and drama queen out this:

I must be missing something here. I don't see anything about MMO's and I don't see any drama queen stuff. Do you even know what an MMO or a drama queen is? I see a valid consequence of EA tightening their anti-piracy grip as more and more people slip through their fingers. I see my take on why current anti-piracy measures are causing more piracy than ever before and a rebellion against DRM. You're not making any sense with charges of drama queen and MMO, but I should have known to expect that from someone who can't properly form and capitalize a sentence.

 

I agree EA needs to man up. Wasn't it their CEO that said something like they had been putting out poor quality products over the last little while and they were going to change all that? So yes I do agree that they haven't done anything and introducing DRM again with Spore doesn't help their case much. But I disagree that we should download the game illegally just to "spite" them. I can see why your mad but isn't keeping your $50 good enough? I mean if you don't like something don't support it, but don't go overboard and steal it.

About your second paragraph I knew someone was going to say generally what you said . Thats fair enough but I don't think Microsoft is shelling out huge dollars to Activision to get CoD4 on their console the same time Sony is on theirs. For exclusives the case is different. A big reason Rockstar held off on releasing GTA4 on the PC at the same time is because console users with a PC could easily have pirated it for free. Its simple business they wanted to make more money on consoles so they gave pirates no chance. Theoretically if pirates didn't exist they would have released it on the PC at the same time instead of 6 months later because they would have sold more PC copies during the initial hype. Its all about the money, likely the reason Rockstar went to consoles in the first place. If pirates weren't so rampant on the PC they might still be making GTA games for the PC also because the money would be there.

Pirates aren't downloading PC games because they don't like DRM. They are pirating them because they can get a game for free. What I think is we need a better solution than DRM. CD Keys are the best idea but those really only work for online games. I actually like what DRM does by checking through the internet to see if you have a legal copy. Its not like game companies are the only ones doing it. Microsoft checks to see if you have a valid copy of windows, Symantec checks to make sure you have a valid copy of Norten Anti-virus installed, etc. The only thing I don't like about DRM is that you are limited to a certain amount of installs and it checks who you are way too often. To be honest it should only verify who you are once every 6 months (which is fair IMHO) and let you install on an unlimited amount of computers.

 

lawlz. seriously why do ppl care about spelling and grammar on an online forum? i don't need to impress any of you. i already got my diploma by getting my crap done when it actually mattered. academically i'm pretty comfortable with what i've done and where i'm headed. how about you?

anyways the only reason why i brought up MMO is because it appears to be the only method of preventing piracy these days.