The Notebook Review forums were hosted by TechTarget, who shut down them down on January 31, 2022. This static read-only archive was pulled by NBR forum users between January 20 and January 31, 2022, in an effort to make sure that the valuable technical information that had been posted on the forums is preserved. For current discussions, many NBR forum users moved over to NotebookTalk.net after the shutdown.
I was really looking forward to this game and playing it, even after all the hoopla about crates. This morning I started see reports, and even a video, of the game limiting time you could play and the number of points you could receive from the arcade. That was the last straw for me. EA has made it more difficult to get a refund. You have to either call or live chat. I waited for 25 minutes in chat to talk with someone (which I thought might take even longer) and it took probably another 15 or 20 minutes to finally get the refund. Disappointing to have to refund it.
At one point, the service person said, "We apologize for the high wait time. We’ve been receiving heavy influx due to some new releases." Gee, I wonder which new release?
I think EA posted something about all the "fans" or consumers just being "arm chair developers" and how they don't need to do what those people want, something along those lines and it was like one of the most down voted reddit posts ever. After that something made the front page where one of those "arm chair devs" went and created a program/bot to idle in SWBF2 since all the rewards are time based not performance based so people could just idle in game and collect as many currency as possible. Probably why they added something to limit how much time someone can spend in the game, and then went and lowered the costs of heroes by like 70%.
I was not aware that heroes would require 40 hours of play time just to purchase 1. I was under the impression you used your currency to buy crates and those would have whatever items in it you could get, I thought the crates would just be cards for weapon upgrades etc but I guess that's where a big issue was? IDK. Still slowly making my way through my 10 hours but I am not planning on buying the game any time soon.
I think everyone should buy the game then go for a refund. I think that would send a stronger message than not buying at all. And create more havoc for them.
If you're going to do that, wait a couple days/weeks until the launch fervor dies down so you're not waiting online or on the phone until the refund window passes.
Not only did they hide it, my order page said it was not eligible for a refund when I met every condition there was to get a refund. Maybe they hope people will give up at that point.
That's underhanded and needs to be reported too. I'm no lawyer but if that's part of the purchase agreement then that's fraud. I really hope EA gets hit hard for these underhanded practices. I was considering buying the game eventually but won't touch it now.
Not sure I agree with that. The conditions for refund are:
Refund requests can be made within 24 hours after you first launch the game, within seven days from your date of purchase, or within seven days from the game's release date if you pre-ordered
I met ALL those conditions and nowhere on Origin's or EA's guarantee does it say if you have been charged you have to deal with customer service.
Also on the refund guarantee page it says: Visit your Order History and select the Request a Refund link next to any eligible product.
When I went to my order history, it plainly said Not Eligible for Refund. That's when I had to contact customer service through chat.
I'm keeping an eye on the game, I really enjoyed the closed alpha and the beta tbh and I'm happy they tweaked three times the loot boxes. But as of now it's still too much smartphone pay2win-ish, no one can objectively deny it.
I know they're going to tweak the system even more because the overwhelmingly negative reception of those micro-transactions can really hurt shareholders trust toward EA, that's the only thing that can scare them, players satisfaction they don't care since the PS3/X360 era imho when the game-as-a-service trend started.
Don't push too far, I don't care (along with many other players) about cosmetics lootboxes, Rainbow six Siege or Overwatch have a very healthy business model. Between DLC that divide the player base and cost 60E (premium/season pass) and cosmetics-only loot boxes I've made my choice.
yes its definitely the lesser of two evils, ill take cosmetic loot crates if we have to take anything at all.
i said in an earlier post i get it, companies need bottom line, sure go for it, there is so much "disposable income" that they need a share in, but do it ethically, don't build a whole system around it, imo EA have built this game around loot boxes, not around the gameplay.
Ive added EA to the ever increasing list of blacklist companies, fcuk em i say i don't "need" to play their games enough to put up with this shifty business model.
Cosmetic loot crates don't bother me at all. If people want to spend money to make their character different, who cares? But if it's required to advance and unlock characters, forget it.
If you remember 2 years ago Blizzard tried the same thing with WoW with its Auction House, and i believe they wanted to see how it works before expanding to other elements of the game. This ultimately back fired as it made botting even worse and people started using real money to gear characters which started to take the fun out of the game.
Eventually Blizzard reversed the change and stopped monetizing. Which was a good step. However, this model is inevitable as all mobile games “SuperCellL uses the montization to progress faster. Ultimately the games will be free and you will have to pay to progress, unless it’s subscription based like WoW.
i think it had been attempted much earlier than that, when diablo 3 first was released it had a real money auction house to sell items and gold, the game was a total mess including the auction house, at the time 1000's of people gave up their jobs/ used bots to earn stupid amounts of money, all of which Blizzard took a cut from..........
Loot boxes will become more and more common because they can potentially make so much money. Since its just gambling though it will doubtless get the attention of the government who will hopefully change the laws to protect children from these systems - making them more transparent and so on. The issue was already raised in the House of Commons here, so hopefully they will look into regulating in game gambling when they aren't preoccupied with bigger issues. I'm not a huge fan of the government sticking its nose into things, but if it stops loot boxes becoming so prevalent then i'm in favour.
Micro-transactions are pretty cancerous in general, especially for games which you have to buy in the first place. However, providing you are spending money on an actual item rather than a loot box, that is not overpowered or that can be earned in game anyway by grinding then I can tolerate it.
I'm not certain but I believe the first big non-free-to-play game with loot boxes was Mass Effect 3's multiplayer mode. Apparently it was EA's demands that made the multiplayer exist in the first place, and doubtless their influence that brought about the loot boxes. While the multiplayer mode wasn't that bad, I would have much rather they put that much effort into - say for instance - the ending.
I'm sorry, but my stance remains unchanged. Lootboxes are not acceptable in a 60+ EUR/USD games. Period
It just takes a little bit of leeway for big publishers to start screwing consumers over. Why do you think EA decided to push progression lootboxes in the first place? Because people are fine with cosmetic lootboxes. Well maybe they will be fine with progression lootboxes as well?
Just give them a little bit of slack and EA and the likes start outright abusing the trust of consumers.
The sad part is that it's a done deal. This will be the future. No matter how much we resist, most of the triple A companies already proclaimed they want to include "renewable income," or whatever the politically correct PR title they have given to MTs/LBs, in pretty much all future titles.
In a way, I actually think microtransactions are better (though still crap). With MTs at least you get wanted stuff upfront - you see a skin you like, you spent a fixed sum on it, you have it. Done! With lootboxes it's like gamlbling - you want a certain skin, but there's no 100% chance you will get it and acquiring a certain item can cost a lot. Hence why it is cancer in any form.
Hopefully government(s) will make more progress towards classifying lootboxes as gambling, because apparently according to ESRB it is not (surprise, surprise). Oh but hey, now indie games released on disc have to be rated, meaning they have to pay ESRB $10000. Hooray! The system works!
As far as I remember, Team Fortress 2 was the first lootbox game. It had lootboxes before it went free to play.
When did Blizzard ever do this with WoW? The closest thing they did was add the ability to purchase tokens (gold) with money, however in turn it allowed Blizzard products and items, to be purchased with WoW gold....so if you played the game a lot and had a lot of money and could make a lot of money, you could fully support yourself and your game time by using in game currency, plus buying other products on the Blizzard store. I think that's the completely opposite of anything EA has ever done.
Is it too far fetched of an idea, that maybe, just maybe some people do not think ALL game developers are bad people, and some people actually want to support some companies that they like?
I bought CSGO for 15 dollars, I have well over 2000 hours of game time played across my different accounts for a game that I spent a total of about 23 dollars on for all 3 copies. For the 23 dollars I never have to pay to play the game, has free matchmaking and officially hosted servers to play and do not require purchasing a server anymore. It costs money to keep these games and services running and companies need a way to support themselves, if they sold a game for 15 bucks they would never make any money off of it and would be losing tons of money in costs to keep the game running. Or they can remove all of their matchmaking and QoL benefits they added to this newer version, and go back to making people pay monthly for their own server.
Instead of just saying "Hey Valve, I really like your games and products and what you do, so here let me just throw 50 bucks your way as some free donation" I can say "Hey, you know I really like this game and I want to support Valve and developers, so let me invest 5 bucks a week here and there to open some crates for cosmetic items for a game I play a lot an enjoy playing" Is that such a bad thing? Blizzard as well, I love Blizzard and their games and products and just about everything they do, so what is wrong with them offering an option for you to help give them some money to support them and keep their game and services up and running and get a different costume for doing it? It literally affects you in no way what so ever if you do not want to do it. I am all for hating pay 2 win lootcrates and things you need to buy for gear to give you a performance edge but to say that having the ability to support a company that you support and get something extra back for it should not exist is pretty wrong imo.
I never claimed all or even some
developers were evil. If you think otherwise please point out the exact sentence where I said that all developers were evil.
Actually, very often developers themselves fall victim to the greed of the
publishers (i.e. Deus Ex Mankind Divided, which didn't want to include MTs, but were forced last minute by Square Enix).
Also, you are comparing a $15 to a $60+ game.
Seriously? I think that's a bit unfair.
In fact, if SW BF2 cost a tenner or was sold for the price it really should be priced, meaning free to play, I don't think people would have complained much. There are some really good F2P games out there (i.e. Warframe, PoE), which are high quality (in a way even better than their AAA counterparts) while only include MTs/LBs for revenue, and don't ask you for AAA prices.
Also, it's not like Blizzard or EA are struggling companies. All lootboxes are doing is allowing them not to innovate much, as lootboxes bring in a continuous revenue stream. Just update a game once in a while, because you know, not to lose the player base and also come up with new items to sell, to make money. Without lootboxes, they would have to occasionally, oh my god, do some work, and release a new video game once in a while.
Cs:Go the problem is not loot boxes, it's the fact that your skins and virtual knives can be traded for real money, this opens a whole new sordid dimension of gambling, bots etc. Valve of course takes a percentage of each player transaction so they won't stop...it's called gambling and gambling is a strictly regulated sector, period. Even if it's absolutely not tied to the progression system (In CS:GO you don't really have that notion only your skill matters) it's no better than BF2.
Steam is an awesome platform but I do not like it when people put Valve on a pedestal. I've yet to see any new game from Valve, we had Portal 2 and other games, now that they have their loot boxes they don't care anymore about making games, they even released the scenario for Half life 3..
This is something I completely agree with you.
Nowadays if I get a chance to buy a game from elsewhere, namely GOG, instead of Steam, I do it. Even if it costs slightly more. I dislike what Valve has become of a past few years...
Would you like it better if OW had the standard ho-hum progression system where everyone unlocked the same things at every level? Seriously, loots boxes aren't a problem in OW. Nothing gameplay related is locked behind loot boxes. I may not be a huge fan of the game, but I will admit that the level of extended updates and free content in OW is among the more consumer friendly out there.
It's not black and white like
Has no loot boxes = good
Has loot boxes = evil
Well, some might argue that in a multiplayer game skins and other cosmetics are very important, because you get to show how cool you/your character is. Believe me, if that wasn't the case, no one would try to sell you them. You might not buy them, but there are plenty who do. You may say they are purely voluntary, and you are right, but you know... Don't tell me you never were tempted to buy a shiny cool thing, because I wouldn't believe you.
And what do you mean free content? You payed for the game, didn't you? It's not free to play to my knowledge. The lootboxes are basically a modern day game subscription. Just because you don't pay, some one else pays it for you, some of whom can spend a lot (the so called whales). That's why they keep updating and adding new content, to keep people playing and spending money.
And yes, lootboxes are evil, in this case it's that simple. You can shine the turd as hard as you want, but a turd will remain a turd. Lootboxes are gambling. You never know what you will get when buying a lootbox. If you are set on getting a certain thing, you might continue spending money on lootboxes (and it could be a lot) until you get that certain thing. That's the main point. They could have just easily sold you cosmetics through mictrotransaction, but no, they decided to go with lootboxes, because that way people spend more money.
This is my take on the whole deal.
You earn loot boxes by playing the game and leveling up. The cosmetics in these loot boxes are the same ones you would get if you were to buy loot boxes with real money. You also earn in-game credits via loot boxes, which can be used to unlock cosmetics of your choice.
By new content, I mean actual gameplay content, e.g. new heroes, maps, modes, events, features, etc. Not cosmetics, although there's plenty of that too.
So great, it has lootboxes and microtransactions. What joy! Carry on then!
Again, they will keep adding new content be it maps, events, features or whatever, because it is what keeps people playing, part of which buys microtransactions. No new content = no players, because they are bound to get tired someday. No players = no lootboxes/microtransactions sold. No lootboxes/microtransactions sold = no money. EZ PZ.
I wasn't saying earned lootboxes don't contain the same rewards as sold ones (seriously, don't people read what I write, or they just see what they want to see, because most of the things I'm trying to say seem to be overlooked, though fair point, I didn't know Overwatch had microtransactions...). The problem with lootboxes, and I repeat,
WHEN YOU BUY ONE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WILL INCLUDE. IF YOU WANT TO GET AN "EPIC" OR WHATEVER CRAP ITEM, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO SPEND A LOT UNTIL YOU GET. ABASICALLY IT'S LIKE BUYING A CAT IN A BAG, WHICH MAKES IT GAMBLING Also, how long does it take to level up? How much some cool item costs and how long you have to play to be able to buy it through in-game currency?
Yes it's RNG-based, but like I said, the alternative is the old progression system of "everyone unlocks the same stuff at each level".
Progression is pretty fast, definitely didn't feel grindy to me. I haven't played that much and I'm not super high level, so I'd imagine it gets longer between levels as you go up due to nonlinearity, but it felt like every few games I was leveling up, and each game is like 5-10 minutes long. You also get XP bonuses for things like first win of the day or if you/your team does well, etc, and XP can be earned in both PvP and PvE. There's also the Arcade, where each game only lasts a few minutes and you get one loot box per every 3 victories, up to 9 games, per week. A lot of people just use the Arcade to farm loot boxes every week since it's quick and easy.
No, trust me, I understand. I hate loot boxes AND micro transactions. Neither are good for a game. I guess for skins and clothing accessories MT's are OK, but seriously, why even have them? The loot boxes in PUBG are even worse because the stuff you get can actually be sold for Steam cash.
I'm just disappointed with the way things have gone in the gaming industry.
Pure galactic assault, no challenges: You will get 16 trooper crates in 40 hours of galactic assault. This is the equivalent of buying $32 in crystals. You'd need to make more than $0.80/hour in order to progress faster than someone who plays the game for the same amount of time.
Galactic assault, with challenges: You will get 25 trooper crates in 40 hours of galactic assault. This is the equivalent of buying $50 in crystals. You'd need to make more than $1.25/hour in order to progress faster than someone who plays the game for the same amount of time.
Doubling down: If we double the number of credits earned, and assume challenges will be changed to be repeatable weekly, you will get 50 crates, $100 worth, in 40 hours of play. Working out to $2.50/hour. Still an issue imo.
I could drive for Uber over the weekend, come back and put all that money in to loot boxes, and have "advanced" further than someone who played the game all weekend... You would still progress faster if you got a job that paid you more than $2.50/hour and bought crates instead of playing the game.
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So basically you can be productive and still play the game and be further ahead than someone that has wasted their entire weekend playing. Sigh.
You and me both. I don't want a fancy cell phone game. It's a shame, because it is a really cool game, but the simple fact that it's still designed around these crappy systems completely ruins it. Oh well, maybe I'll go purchase the old BF2 from 2005 to get my fix.
Contrary to 99% of reddit, I think EA does not have a choice anymore thanks to the tremendous reaction of the players, especially on Reddit
If they mess up again when they reinstate those crystals currency, it's going to destroy for good EA's reputation and investors will begin to see that no one trust EA anymore (even more than usual) and it's going to hurt their profit margin by A LOT. So it won't be a progre$$ion system anymore I HOPE. It's a shame this game is a jewel but they (as usual) mess it up with their corporate, out of reality methods.
Once again, damage control lol.
I can't even read this with a straight face, it just makes me laugh. It's like they had multiple generic apology templates and showed them together to make this one. It has it all (not direct quotes) - "development challenges", "thinking about players", "a small mistake which made good game bad", "we are listening" . I don't think anyone can seriously believe that (well, only people who want to play this game badly and they will search for any redeeming quality to get this game, and your average brainless consumer, who doesn't give a crap anyway).
And like other people mentioned it here, "in-game purchases" will come back. Well I mean of course they will, DICE even says that. And I wouldn't be surprised it would stay the same, maybe with some minor tweaks.
All they are doing is trying to get some positive press on the release day, because they don't need headlines like Belgian Government and Dutch Gambling Commission investigation. They need titles like "oh look, they are listening, they are improving."
Typical sneaky EA, trying to the good 'ol "bury the bad news" tactic... Hopefully this will not work...
Problems? See this thread at archive.org.
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