Starcraft 2: a step backwards in gameplay?

you can pick a map with fortification to stop the rush

the matchmaking works really well - i barely know how to play, i don't know any of the units, and I won about half my games so far. that would not be possible in SC1. SC2 actually does cater to new players very well based on the matchmaking.

Additionally, at the end of the round, you can watch the replay, inspect the BUILD ORDER of the game... the friends list is there, you can party up with a friend and do 2v2 matchmaking... the whole thing is really polished. I just can't really find anything bad to say about the game. It's fun.

 

Heh I just played with that easy AI til I memorized the hotkeys Sure it's not a good practice with the AI but meh it's good for people who are new to the game

 

Yeah I need to learn the hot keys I do not know any of them, I also need to learn how to use the shift que. I can use it to move but cant seem to build with it.

 

wow I want to get the game now lol

 

Switch the hotkeys to grid, makes it a load easier. It maps the action LOCATION of units to corresponding keys on your keyboard.. instead of memorizing an arbitrary key, you memorize the location of the button you'd click instead. As in, Q is the top left key, W is the top middle, etc.

 

Starcraft on the PC is a lot like Dragon Quest for consoles. It hasn't changed, it won't change and the fans would be up in arms with torches and pitchforks if it did change.

I liked SC back in the day when I used to play it on my AMD K6-2 366MHz rig with an nvidia TNT2 32MB GPU. I played the SC2 beta for a while and pronounced myself unimpressed. It's the same game, only prettier. Nothing's improved or gotten better.

I demand a little more from my RTS games. Why can't we have more titles like Homeworld? That game was--no, it's still awesome, even years later.

Hopefully Diablo 3 won't fall the same way.

 

dude nice csinth.. wonder if it's too late for my brain and memory haha

 

That's assuming I have the brain capacity to remember these things. I can't remember which day it is usually ...

Homeworld, absolutely. If you can find a copy look for Nexus: The Jupiter Incident. Somewhat similar, but not quite. It doesn't have the scope of Homeworld but inspired by it.

 

I disagree with the map comment. A few maps became standard because people become familiar with them. In fact, if maps don't make much of a difference, the maps can be random. But they are not.

As for the simcity aspect, that is actually only the first 2 minutes of the game. Resourcing also plays a big part of the game anyways. The concept of building placement, focus on resource vs. units, expansion vs attack are good strategies that will be lost if resourcing is not part of RTS.

If you don't like resourcing, you can try Big Game Hunters or Fastest Map. I am sure they will be available in SC2.

 

Just to highlight some of your points.

- I think whoever said it was a "noob" strategy really is a noob. Walling off is a strategy. Just like rushing. Just like macro.

- Building walls will be more like Simcity (term used by OP). You have to think of every unit of SC2 as like a chess piece but in RTS world.

 

I guess we like different types of RTS. Homeworld was ok for me - it was more eye canding than playing SC1. SC1 was like playing chess to me but a lot faster.

 

Well, ignoring the simcity comment, just a defensive wall, trench, or forcefield, something that actually has that purpose instead of using buildings. I don't see how that would be a ridiculous request, and actually a use that makes sense instead of throwing a building up for that purpose.

Chess with a two second player clock, which gets me back to ground zero, but I won't go there.

 

The reason you use buildings rather than say a bunker to "wall-on" is that a bunker is a waste of money/resources. Bunkers are static and can't move so after the initial rush/scout/attack they become useless.

 

So hotkeys.... I am trying to learn them but its hard for me since I generally do better keeping one hand on the arrow keys to move the camera and use the mouse for clicking.

I use a few hotkeys like "A" for attack but thats about it.

I read about the grid setting and tried it and it was not as easy as I thought spanning 5 keys wide, I thought for some reason it would be 9 keys in the WSAD area.

The problem I have is even if I learn the hotkeys it slows me down because I am not good with using the mouse for camera control, and the time it takes me to move from the arrow keys to the hotkeys is the same amount of time it takes for me to click.

So what do you pros do, move between arrows and hotkeys? or only use hokeys and use the mouse for the camera?

Also what is the opinion on standard hotkeys vs grid?

grid is kinda confusing but I only used it one game so far and I used it off-race so I was not doing so well. I could not even press A to attack :/ I think it makes more sense though if you do get used to it.

 

I wish they finished StarCraft Ghost. That would have kicked halo's trash. hope they return to that.

 

I'm using standard hotkeys with mouse as camera I find it quite easy that way Not to mention i use space bar a lot to get to points where I'm attacked or wherever a building's finished if im terran so i can get the SCV do another stuff unless I had queued up another command for it beforehand :x

You'll also get used clicking on minimap for camera movement soon enough

 

I tried grid and I liked it a lot, still have to get used to it though, but it is mostly a 9 key area grid though I thought.. at least for zerg there wasn't much going into the4th and 5th columns anyway..
qwe
asd
zxc

 

Yeah I am going to learn grid I think. Since I really do not know the other hotkeys I think it will be easier/better in the long run especially when I play other class that I am not used too.

So how do you que a worker to build and then mine?

I hold shift and build a building, after that if I let go of shift and right click to mine it unques the build and goes directly to the minerals. If I continue to hold shift instead the right click command is not accepted. I cant click on the mine minerals command because it only shows the cancel building command.

There must be something simple I am missing, because this is supposed to be something you can do and probably the first que command I should learn.

 

ViciousXUSMC:
Hold down shift, B -> *hotkey for whatever building u want* -> click to place it where u want -> right click minerals -> let go of shift = will go back and mine after starting building (protoss) / finishing building (terran).

 

Yes I guess you can say SC was like chess with a 2sec player clock. Chess was pure brain thinking but SC is more complex with brain thinking and good reflexes more complexity with some fitness into it as well. But I still think SC is like the modern version (much more complicated) of chess then other RTS I played.

Obviously each to their own

 

Okay, but here's the thing. One of the most effective ways to flank in SC2 would be to have a bunch of units circle around and attack the ranged units from the side or from the back, where they have no melee units to tank the damage for them because they're out in the front line attacking.

However, here's the thing with Terrans. Terrans have no melee units so this whole concept is out.

Furthermore, the AI of the troops is basically set to attack whatever unit is closest to them. Whether you attack from the front, side, or from the back, the player simply has to leave it up to the AI of each individual unit to attack whichever is closest to them. Even if the player himself did not realize that he was being flanked, it wouldn't matter because the troops will simply auto-attack whatever is closest to them.

Lastly, we all know Terrans carry guns. Therefore, they all have a pretty long range. Whether the Hydras are attacking from in front, side, or behind, it doesn't matter because they are all within the range of gunfire.



The only effective use of flanking I can think of against Terrans would be when there's a chokepoint where a lot of your units are just getting stuck behind unable to attack, while all the Marines and Maruaders are firing upon your units. In such a scenario it would be great if you could flank them in order to overcome the chokepoint.

 

All new rts games have dumb downed gameplay, coh, sc2, cnc, dow. i dont know why you guys are just complaining about sc2 lol

 

NVM...read it wrong.

SC2 isn't really dumbed down at all IMO. It seems to have touched up SC1 at the high micro level, I'd argue this game has gotten less dumbed down.

 

there is a lot less micro in sc2, but there is a lot less of everything in sc2. It took sc1 about 10 years to find out most of the micro techniques, so I would think sc2 would take a long time too.

 

I'm not so sure that's true. In technical terms building things and the early stages require arguably less micro but in army battles the micro feels similar, maybe even more intensive in TvZ especially.

The other thing you touched is on why micro technique may feel "less", new things and new strategy are being highlighted everday in micro technique as it goes on, its too early to say micro is less in SC2.

 

There are also a lot of units missing in the beta if I'm not wrong.

 

Pretty sure they put in all the units into the beta Otherwise how would they balance it out properly if they only put like 2/3 of the units

 

SC2 is the sequel, while it has some new units everything else is almost the same so its not going to take as long. plus people already have those SC1 skills sunk into them.

 

i thought i read somewhere that some units like the firebat will be in single player only and not in multiplayer. maybe thats what he meant

 

Firebat? Yay! Why not multiplayer? My fav unit.

 

Probably somewhere in the campaign firebats got tired of walking and mounted a car and gets called helions soon after in the multiplayer

 

Still resisting to buy SC2 until they allow cross-region play...

 

I disagree with the Op.

Starcraft 2 is my favorite game (out of any genre) in the last 6 years.

 

They wont, so many things wrong with it that it'll just never happen. Personally im happy to not have to play with koreans, or that laggy guy from egypt. We have plenty of Dbag's in NA as well as laggy people.

 

Can you add someone on your battle.net friendlist account witch is living in Korea?

 

i just wanna ask to people like the OP in general...

what on earth made you think that SC was going to turn into COH?

 

But I won't be able to play with my friends in other continents though. That is the main issue for me rather than random people in Korea or Egypt.

 

one major thing i disagree with, is the fact that the franchise hasn't learned anything - the SC franchise is a very, very popular and well selling RTS "series" even though it's comprised of 2 games thus far (so i'm sure they know what they're doing). the fact that the company backing is is Blizzard, who we all know goes above and beyond to update content to, of course, make money, very much tells the community that there COULD potentially be many changes for the game throughout it's life. not to mention, the modding capability of the game; i'm not so sure it's really a step backwards.

being so innovative all the time doesn't always create a successful game, nor does it make the game enjoyable. i don't think they wanted to break a game that was so popular with the community.