SteamOS

Today, Valve announced something new: SteamOS


Clueless about what it is? Never fear: Valve Introduces SteamOS, A Linux-Based Platform To Bring Steam To Your Living Room | TechCrunch

Thoughts on this?


UPDATE 2:
Second Announcement has arrived:

Valve announced Hardware Beta Participation:
http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamMachines/


basically sign up to try out their machine for free (I will assume it is the Steambox)

Only 300 participants can try this machine out so join quickly if you can (I know I did)

 

Valve will make three announcements this week. One will probably be the SteamBox, which will run the SteamOS.

This thread was started for the three announcements. http://forum.notebookreview.com/notebook-news-reviews/732668-valve-make-three-big-announcements-starting-monday-discussion.html

 

If I understand correctly, it is simply a version of Linux optimized for running games and the Steam client on large screen displays in the living room.

Personally I have no particular loyalty to Windows, and there are some excellent web-based alternatives to common Microsoft applications like Office, etc.; however, I would be surprised if some of the applications I use frequently like Adobe Creative Suite get ported to Linux. Otherwise, it would seem to be a bit of a hassle to install SteamOS on a separate partition and keep Windows for the apps that don't run on Linux.

 

If I understand correctly, it's Linux with all Linux's utility besides running Steam stripped out. Facebook and Amazon did the same to Android and they weren't exactly loved by the tech community for doing so. I'm not at all a fan.

 

They also added game streaming from a Windows PC.

 

does this mean I don't need a HDMI cable to go big screen on my TV with my laptop? :O

 

A quote from the site:

In-home Streaming

You can play all your Windows and Mac games on your SteamOS machine, too. Just turn on your existing computer and run Steam as you always have - then your SteamOS machine can stream those games over your home network straight to your TV!

 

I don't quite see the point of going through the effort to buy a second PC and install a special OS simply for streaming from another PC. Why not simply connect your laptop or desktop to your TV with a $35 google chromecast dongle, or even a $10 HDMI cable?

I usually run games or Netflix from my laptop connected to a 1080p projector using a long HDMI cable and wireless mouse.

 

i think thats what the steambox is for. if theyre gonna sell that thing for sub 200usd and offer good tv/movie content, it could shake up the console/home entertainment market significantly.

 

What if it's a high-end desktop in you bedroom upstairs, streaming down to your family room when you want to game console-style down there?

It's very much a niche functionality, not useful for most people, but I can think of a few situations where it'd be good.

 

Wait, what? You have only one PC?

I've had a dedicated HTPC in my living room for movie use for years now and I'm now going to try SteamOS on it. It's only C2D with some low end AMD GPU in a SFF case but if I can stream games from my actual desktop in addition to normal movie/music playing, I'll definitely try it.
(now who doesn't have more computers than rooms at home?)

 

I don't understand what a SteamBox DOES though. It can't natively run Windows games in Linux, so you'd be limited to Linux games or streaming from a PC in another room. If that's all it is, I'm not interested. Hopefully Valve explains it clearly for the masses because it's already not making a lot of sense to me.

 

You can however install Windows on it. GabeN mentioned that it won't be locked to a specific OS. So I guess it's kinda a console-PC.
Will be interesting what specs will SteamBox pack, and if they are decent enough for a good price, that would be a solid option.
Now SteamOS I'm not very sure about. I do like that they promote Linux gaming, but the OS, which primary focus is games, doesn't really interest me personally.

 

I am excited for performance gains mentioned! Yum yum, I always like free performance gains


Seeing as I only have this here laptop and there is no living room in this shared rented house in which I dwell, I can't say I'm massively excited for the other features. But what's moot features for me are fantastic for other people so I'm glad that this is happening.

I also hope that Half Life 3 will finally come to fruition now that Valve has finally learnt how to count to three.

 

Yeah, from what I gather, the idea was to offer a guaranteed optimized kernel for the steambox hardware. Along with a light, trimmed down selection of software, some unique Valve software along with a Steam client. And a particular version of a window manager. Similar to what Ubuntu has, very likely. Obviously you'd be able to add your own programs along with it. Skype, jabber, whatever.

The biggest advantage would be that you can install the entire thing really quickly. And get optimal performance without tweaking, etc. All the benefits of a console, without being forced to use some particular OS or specific set of client software, in case things go really bad.

I.e., "sorry, but we decided to drop voice-chat in-game because we promised Activision that they wouldn't need to patch their NFL games from five years ago". Or: "sorry, but we just became so paranoid and ornery that we decided to remove a feature you paid dearly for when you bought our hardware and software kit. Hope it doesn't ruin your hobby-programming plans or anything! And it's completely optional! (as long as you sign this form in triplicate, and treat our user-agreement as operative law, while declaring you will never sue us, for whatever reason".

That sort of thing won't happen, at least.

 

Steam has a detailed wall of legalese just like other game providers, and it's no less draconian than any other software terms-of-service agreement:

Spoiler

A. DISCLAIMERS

VALVE AND ITS AFFILIATES AND SERVICE PROVIDERS EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM (I) ANY WARRANTY FOR STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, AND THE SUBSCRIPTIONS, AND (II) ANY COMMON LAW DUTIES WITH REGARD TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, AND THE SUBSCRIPTIONS, INCLUDING DUTIES OF LACK OF NEGLIGENCE AND LACK OF WORKMANLIKE EFFORT. STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, THE SUBSCRIPTIONS, AND ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS, "WITH ALL FAULTS" AND WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NONINFRINGEMENT. ANY WARRANTY AGAINST INFRINGEMENT THAT MAY BE PROVIDED IN SECTION 2-312 OF THE UNIFORM COMMERCIAL CODE AND/OR IN ANY OTHER COMPARABLE STATE STATUTE IS EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMED. ALSO, THERE IS NO WARRANTY OF TITLE, NON-INTERFERENCE WITH YOUR ENJOYMENT, OR AUTHORITY IN CONNECTION WITH STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, THE SUBSCRIPTIONS, OR INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH. THIS SECTION WILL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW.

B. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY

TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, NEITHER VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, NOR ITS OR THEIR AFFILIATES, NOR ANY OF VALVE’S SERVICE PROVIDERS, SHALL BE LIABLE IN ANY WAY FOR LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND RESULTING FROM THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE STEAM, YOUR ACCOUNT, YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS AND THE SOFTWARE INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, LOSS OF GOODWILL, WORK STOPPAGE, COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, OR ANY AND ALL OTHER COMMERCIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES. IN NO EVENT WILL VALVE BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, SPECIAL, PUNITIVE OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, OR ANY OTHER DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, THE SUBSCRIPTIONS, AND ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH, OR THE DELAY OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE, SUBSCRIPTIONS OR ANY INFORMATION, EVEN IN THE EVENT OF VALVE’S OR ITS AFFILIATES’ FAULT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY, BREACH OF CONTRACT, OR BREACH OF VALVE’S WARRANTY AND EVEN IF VALVE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. THESE LIMITATIONS AND EXCLUSIONS REGARDING DAMAGES APPLY EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS TO PROVIDE ADEQUATE RECOMPENSE.

BECAUSE SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR THE LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, IN SUCH STATES OR JURISDICTIONS, VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, AND ITS AND THEIR AFFILIATES’ LIABILITY SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW.

...

Valve may amend this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use) at any time in its sole discretion.

...

YOU AND VALVE AGREE TO RESOLVE ALL DISPUTES AND CLAIMS BETWEEN US IN INDIVIDUAL BINDING ARBITRATION. THAT INCLUDES, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, ANY CLAIMS ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO: (i) ANY ASPECT OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN US; (ii) THIS AGREEMENT; OR (iii) YOUR USE OF STEAM, YOUR ACCOUNT OR THE SOFTWARE. IT APPLIES REGARDLESS OF WHETHER SUCH CLAIMS ARE BASED IN CONTRACT, TORT, STATUTE, FRAUD, UNFAIR COMPETITION, MISREPRESENTATION OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY.

...

An arbitration is a proceeding before a neutral arbitrator, instead of before a judge or jury. Arbitration is less formal than a lawsuit in court, and provides more limited discovery. It follows different rules than court proceedings, and is subject to very limited review by courts. The arbitrator will issue a written decision and provide a statement of reasons if requested by either party. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU AND VALVE ARE GIVING UP THE RIGHT TO SUE IN COURT AND TO HAVE A TRIAL BEFORE A JUDGE OR JURY.

Complete text: Steam Subscriber Agreement

 

Just like a new console needs AAA games to sell it, so does a Steambox SteamOS. And they already have some AAA games announced like Metro Last Light. Valve has already said they will announce more AAA title for Linux soon.

Also, I don't think most of the users in this forum are the current target market. The target market are the low end gamers. The ones that saving $80 for Windows is a big deal.

Now imagine that Half Life 3 is a Steambox exclusive... people buy it, causing even more games to be released for it.

 

For "low end gamers" who want to save money, a $399 system that stays current for 5-7 years like the PS4 is probably a better financial deal than any PC (whether Windows-based or Linux-based) for gaming. PC gaming (whether Windows-based or Linux-based) assumes that GPUs improve every year or so; with console-based gaming, the developers optimize their games to a particular hadware configuration for a half-decade straight.

Even in base configuration with Ubuntu instead of Windows, the Alienware X51 compact gaming desktop costs 50% more than a PS4, and I suspect the PS4 is much more powerful than the base-config X51.

 

Everything so far looks promising but there is still 2 more announcements so we shall wait patiently for this. It is more likely steambox and maybe...*cough* a game with a three *cough* (but quite doubtful). Stay tune

because I keep tripping my family with HDMI cables, even my dog...its funny but the faceplant hurts...

 

If HL3 is released exclusive to Steambox, I'll buy it... BRING IT!

They just need a laptop version. Instead of a Chromebook, make a Steambook

 

I had high hopes it was a new OS to replace Windows. An easy Linux Kernel but with dumbed down easy to use system

 

If it turns out there is no Half-Life 3--if it's just something the internet has dreamed up like Project Roadrunner--I'm going to laugh so hard at the massive rage-tsunami that will be unleashed on Friday. And Gabe Newell will probably have to go into witness protection.

 

OS to replace Windows? You mean run Windows programs? That will never happen, not possible with current patents. It would have to emulate Windows but since they don't have the source code it would be a bit difficult to pull off.

 

I thought he meant a general-purpose OS that someone would use for everything from gaming to word processing to email. I still think your best bet for that is Ubuntu, particularly with Dell shipping some devices with Ubuntu preinstalled, with drivers sorted out and everything. An Alienware X51 with Ubuntu for $599 is really a good option for an all-purpose machine for someone who wants to get into Linux gaming.

 

If Steam can encourage publishers and developers to develop for Linux, then I quickly see no reason for myself or many users to keep using Windows in the not too distant future, especially if MS keeps making their sheltered brain-dead OS UI decisions. The main thing that keeps me using Windows is gaming, plain and simple. I started evaluating my PC needs and really pretty much everything I do can be done easily in Linux. Although I do realize that so many third party and freeware/open source apps for tuning and tweaking hardware and programs are written for Windows, so that may be one sticking point. But if Linux gains steam (pun intended) then that tide may shift significantly. Then Windows will need a compelling reason for anyone to pay for their OS.

 

Just get a real distro and Install Steam. Problems solved.

 

I meant a new OS that have the same support on programs like Windows. I thought SteamOS was that, a Linux Distro but with support of Windows games through Steam. And on the side, had support for Firefox, VLC and such, just like Windows.

 

Kind of confusing, really. Only way they would have support for Windows games on Steam would be to have a Windows OS, primarily due to DirectX. No way around it really. The WINE folks haven't properly implemented DirectX 9 yet and 10 and 11 are not even a whisper. Unless Valve worked out a way to execute DirectX 11 calls with little to no overhead or compatibility issues. That would be an amazing feat, considering the WINE folks have been at it for 20 years.

 

I was also hoping for this. Steam is already a very convenient platform for selling and distributing applications, and Windows has not endeared itself to consumers or set a particularly high bar for efficiency. I wouldn't be surprised if Valve were to develop an OS that runs many applications more efficiently.

Unfortunately I don't believe there are many professional grade creative apps for Linux out there quite yet like Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, etc. For games however, I'd hope installing them onto a SteamOS partition would result in higher frame rates.

We have a couple of laptops (gf has an rMBP and I'm still using an old envy 15 from a few years back), no desktops.

There are a number of rather inexpensive options for streaming from your desktop to your TV, but if you have an old unused PC lying around and want to have fun tinkering with it, sure why not?

 

And then there is Steam in BestBuy...

 

How would installing it on a different partition result in higher frame rates? It wouldn't. Only thing from a software standpoint that can help is drivers.

 

A custom OS designed specifically for gaming should bring a performance increase. Steam are already claiming a reduction in latency which is a win already.

 

Whoa ha where is this? I was proud to see my local Best Buy start carrying the Steam gift cards but we don't have this display! :thumbsup:

 

Wouldn't exactly surprise me if they extended it to the actual box as well in the end. And sawing their own legs off for all to see, in the name of publisher relationships.

But my understanding was that the idea at the moment was that the disclaimer is limited to the actual client software. And that a steambox (which is just neatly built common pc hardware) would legally and legitimately be possible to use with (or without) a steam client for any kind of OS.

I.e., that the sales-pitch was: "Buy this sleek but slightly expensive piece of hardware built by a reputable 3rd party, and install any OS on it. But get the best performance and easiest install/support and access with our OS".

The idea being that if they started releasing their own controller, or their own usb standard and hdmi ports that only work on one device, along with a hard-disk drive that is encrypted to heck and put into a weird performance-draining bypass-bus via usb (hello Microsoft!) - then that would undermine the future of the client program platform, and limit the larger PC and hardware market Valve is aiming for.

As opposed to what the other console-makers are doing, namely aiming for the largest and most predictable niches. The steam-box then being a way to push the client software, not the hardware they are in this case not actually making themselves, etc.

I fully expect this to go sour eventually, though. But I have some sympathy for the setup they currently have. If you would make certain concessions about requiring DRM and having a narrow distribution channel and payment stream (with the secondary options and product codes put in through that system) - then pushing the client software as a drm-solution, rather than vainly trying to lock down hardware, and suing bedroom hackers out of their pocket money to frighten off the "pirates", and so on - is a much better idea.

 

Gabe Newell mentioned a performance increase in games when running in Linux. I believe he said significant faster in Linux than in Windows.

The SteamBox was announced today. And they said you can install what you want on it. They even said you could use the SteamBox to build a robot if you wanted to.

Last week Gabe gave a talk to the Linux community. The first part of the talk was how open systems grow, and closed ones can't compete. He also talked about how users can output much more than any one company.

His whole focus is an open system.

He also said people don't want a desktop in the living room.

 

Any word yet on system requirements?

 

I still don't understand how this will run the Windows games without Windows.

From the teaser page Steam Machines

it says in the FAQ:

What games will be available during the beta?
The nearly 3,000 games on Steam. Hundreds already running natively on the SteamOS, with more to come. The rest will work seamlessly via in-home streaming.

And on the last page it says:

Am I going to be using a mouse and a keyboard in the living-room?
If you want. But Steam and SteamOS work well with gamepads, too. Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input.

Which tells me that the last thing may be a unique controller by Valve.

 

Windows games will be streamed from a Windows computer. This for the users that don't want a gaming PC in the living room, or simply want to game in multiple rooms with buying or lugging multiple gaming PCs.

Linux can use a mouse or keyboard or a Xbox controller. But I think there was a hint some where about "input", i.e. creating a new input device. It was vague, so not sure. But maybe it is a more open console type controller.

 

It makes sense that they focus a lot on a game pad. After all if one is in the living room, they would need to play a game with something that is less of a burden, so a game pad it is. Keyboard and Mouse would usually require you to get yourself a table to place the keyboard and mouse. Regardless though, they also want to make it keyboard/mouse friendly as well so either way its a win-win to however you want to play it.


(Except Dark Souls - Prepare to Die Edition, using mouse and keyboard on that game is difficult.)

 

Source? Yesterday he said that the OS was open-source ("Users can alter or replace any part of the software or hardware they want"), but didn't make any mention of installing third-party software (like games from non-Steam sources, or OpenOffice, or Firefox). And from NBR's article on SteamBoxes today, JR made it sound like the Steam Store is the sole source of software for SteamOS unless you modify the OS (which is easy for a Linux enthusiast but likely impossible for your typical consumer): "Additionally, and unlike with Windows, these companies won't be able to sell software placements for these machines, as Steam will be providing the software stores."

EDIT:

Steam's release says the following:

Still not clear on how that reconciles with JR's comment about SteamMachine OEMs not being allowed to install software not from Steam itself.

 

Haha imagine:

Steam + Valve + Controller?

What could become of such madness?!

Steamroller!

 

We'll I'll be...

 

It seems like their OS is most likely going to be extremely well built for their magical Steam boxes or w/e they are called.

I agree though, as exciting as this is (for Linux users) this isn't groundbreaking news nor interesting for the usual Windows PC gamer.

Dual-boot here we come eh..

 

For me, it's just like the Facebook Home launcher on Android. Yes, I use FB a lot, but do I really need an OS built around that particular service when I can just use FB through mainstream Android? Likewise, I do have a number of Steam games, but why would I want to dual-boot or own a separate machine just for my Steam games instead of just playing them in Windows (on the same computer I use for other stuff)?

 

I don't understand the I wouldn't own one, so no else would argument.

Mitlov, as for qurstion about it being open, well if you listen to Gabe's Linuxcon speach, he made it vary clear he is targeting open source, open enviroments. The only area I expect to be closed is regarding anything that would allow game theft.

Here is the link to Gabe's talk, it gives a good idea of where they are headed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzn6E2m3otg

 

That's already taken by AMD

That would be kind of ironic if the Steambox had the same AMD architecture of Xbox One and PS4...

Then that would pit Intel PC's vs AMD gaming boxes.

 

This quote by Gabe is interesting. This was back in March.

Newell suggested that input is a huge part of Valve’s strategy, explaining that “the main thing that's holding us up is that we have a couple of different controller prototypes that we're using, and that’s one of the things we’ll be giving to customers. We’ll just give them a couple different ones and then look to see what the difference is in their play patterns when they have those different controllers. If you think of a game like Left 4 Dead ,which is trying to put you into a sort of horror movie, you and your friends in a horror movie, if you don't change the experience of what the player is actually feeling then it stops being a horror game and starts being something else. So you need to actually be able to directly measure how aroused the player is -- what their heart rate is, things like that -- in order to continue to offer them a new experience each time they play."

 

Thankfully, Leisure Suit Larry is available on Steam.

Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards: Reloaded on Steam

 

Yea, that part got me also. Maybe a heart rate monitor? Difficulty is based on your heart rate. I just hope they aren't measuring something else.

 

Nothing to do with partitions, simply that the OS is less bloated than Windows. A number of supported games and apps will likely run faster on Steam's version of Linux than they will run on Windows.

Unfortunately, I don't believe there are any professional grade Linux alternatives to Photoshop, In Design, Illustrator, etc., so I would still need to use Windows for these applications, hence the separate partition (as opposed to replacing Windows altogether).

Interesting point of view on this game. L4D2 never seemed to me to have anything at all to do with the horror genre. It wasn't in any way frightening or scary, simply an action game.