Strategy Game Question...

All, I have read many posts on here about RTS. I mostly play FPS and RPGs but wanted to get into a RTS. I like the looks of Empire Total War but I often ask the question when reading the reviews.. "what is the point?" What do you get out of beating another army?

So here is my question... Do they have a recent release, high quality RTS, where you can create better weapons or better ships or higher quality armies? Meaning, the goal is not to just conquer territory but you have other incentives to make the game mean something.

I appreciate all your thoughts and responses. Please dont say "use the search" because I have already done so. I know the old starcraft games are fun but I want something newer if possible within the last year or so.

Best wishes, StevenX

 

Usually an RTS involves an economy, so you fight to gain land/currency/whatever, which then you use to purchase new troops/upgrades. Like in Total War, you fight for territories, which you can then tax for gold or use for research.

 

yea empire total war your constantly developing technology to make your armies/infrastructure/economy better. you manage diplo relations with countries as well so its really multifaceted. Some people don't even play the battles, they just auto-resolve them and play a more macro version.

 

Which IMO is dumb because half the time you'll lose Auto'ed battles even if you should win.

 

Ok... So if you can go into more detail, can you give me a specific weapon of war you improved upon during ETW? How did it make your army or navy better? Thanks again for all the responses!

 

I think you're looking too into this. RTSs are about the satisfaction of beating your enemy.

 

No, I just want some details as to what makes it more interesting than just "beating your enemy". That can be done in any game.

Thanks, StevenX

 

Well IMO RTS games are about how you beat your enemy. Unlike some other games, there's more than one way of doing it, hence the term 'strategy'. Timing, decisions between certain upgrades(or not to get them), formations and locations are all factors which will cross your gameplay in a RTS game.

 

Well, there is a tech tree which allows you to research things that like give your navies 10% more range in one turn. Also, the Square formation for your land units, or bayonets. Stuff like that.

IMO, not doing the battles is losing half the game since there's so much detail in every battle.

 

Isn't any game type about "beating your enemy" I mean most FPS your objective is to "beat" the opposing team/players. MMO's your objective is to "beat" the NPC's, or in PVP opposing players. RPG's your objective is to "beat" end game bosses, beat levels, and dungeons etc... Unless I am missing something, most every game is about "beating something" Even build games like Sim City, your objective was to "beat" your enemy that is debt, unhappy citizens, disasters etc.

RTS is much the same, and the total war series offers more than most in that you have to "beat" your enemy through military force, economics, diplomacy etc. What else do you want? Thats the whole point of basically every game imo even Hello Kitty Island Adventure

If your looking for a game that has some sort of Real Life benefit, or reason to play - well none do games are generally a waste of time/life but are entertaining and serve only that purpose.


Specifically in ETW, I made sure to research military tech rather quickly so my main battle lines had better tactics than my enemies for instance column/row firing e.g. the first row fires then kneels so the row behind them may fire etc. etc I also built up a strong land based economy as quickly I could by upgrading farmhouses etc. to bring is $$ to pay for huge armies.

 

I know this is probably annoying for you guys and I am sorry for that. I am just trying to figure out, what would make it interesting for me as a player. I know that there are many many ways to resolve a problem. Just like I am sure there are many ways to win the game or campaign. What I like in a game are the upgrades or special weapons or special abilities. So if Empire Total War has them, I will probably like the game. Does that make sense?

Thanks for all your time! I appreciate it. Best Wishes, StevenX

 

Maybe if your armies aren't tech'd up......occasionally I auto resolve battles in which the enemy is favored 75%,early in the game when I did so I would lose all of those because our tech was even, now tha tmy tech is far more advanced than most enemies I practically always win those even though the auto-resolve odds say my enemy has a 75% chance of winning because when the CPU actually plays out the battle it factors your tech/veterancy etc., but the autoresolve screen basically just decides based on numerical advantage. (my understanding anyway, or so it seems)

In any even't I fight 85% of land battles, and about 15% of naval battles on screen, the rest I auto resolve.

 

Sure - there are quite a few unique units in the game, many have unique abilities (calvary can form wedge, infantry can form square , other infantry are masters of camoflauge and can absush, or have longer range accuracy) many have unique upgrades (e.g Artillary starts with just shot, then you get canister, and finally shrapnel, foot soldiers start with no bayonets, and you slowly can upgrade to better versions of bayonets starting at plug bayonets which render the gun unusable after use, to modern bayonets)

Sounds like you would prolly enjoy this game if your patient.... its a game of patience and strategy.

 

You should download some demos and see for yourself. As mentioned earlier pretty much every strategy game has some kind of tech tree involved. If you are looking for more of Class Upgrades like in an RPG you might try Dawn of War II. You control a handful of classes and can distribute XP, weapons and armour among them like you would your team in an RPG.

Here are some RTS's that have demos available.

Red Alert 3
Empire TW
Medieval 2 TW
Company of Heroes
Dawn of War II
Supreme Commander

 

Some RTS also tells a pretty good story like a good RPG on the single player campaign. A good example is the Dawn of war series. Actually Dawn of war II is a partial RTS/RPG mix where your main character and core support units will gain experience, skills and new gears as they progress thru the campaign.

 

It's called a research tree and a tech tree. That's what most RTS's are all about. Choose your path of development to better take advantage of your enemy. That's part of the strategy. Know how to counter your enemies' attacks.

Sins of a Solar Empire is a great example. How many capital ships should you build, what upgrades should you add. How many and what kind of support ships. Sometimes you hold out a bit until you find out more about your enemies' force, and then build to counter.

 

Dawn of War 2

From wikipedia:

The campaign includes many elements traditionally associated with RPG-style games. Squad leaders and commander units can be equipped with the wargear which is gathered from battlefields and slain enemies and by accomplishing objectives during missions. Throughout the campaign, as a Space Marine kills enemies and achieves objectives, he gains experience, "levels up", learns new abilities, and gains bonuses.

The RPG elements actually make you want to protect your experienced units vs using them as cannon fodder.

Demigod

From wikipedia:

Gold and experience points are earned as the player defeats the enemy and captures nodes. As the player's Demigod levels up, the player also gains access to new abilities through the respective skill tree. Each Demigod has its own unique talent tree with a blend of offensive, defensive and team focused abilities. Demigods can also purchase items to boost their abilities, including some ancient items, the most expensive items in the game. Achievements earn the player favor points, which can be used to purchase temporary items lasting one battle.

Warcraft 3

The game is much older, but not as old as Starcraft, and has RPG elements involved with its heroes.

From wikipedia:

In addition, Warcraft III adds powerful new units called heroes. For each enemy unit killed, a hero will gain experience points, which allow the hero to level-up to a maximum level of 10. Progressing up a level increases the heroes attributes and also allows the hero to gain new spell options (bringing RPG elements to the series). Certain hero abilities can apply beneficial auras to allied units. All heroes can equip items to increase skills, defense, and other abilities. At level six, the hero can obtain an "ultimate" skill that is more powerful than the three other spells that the hero possesses. Heroes can also utilize the various natural resources found throughout the map, such as controllable non-player characters, and markets in which the hero can purchase usable items. Often, the playing style of ones hero units (it is bound up to three at one time) decides who wins or loses the match/battle.

I think you're looking for RTS games with RPG elements. There are quite a few good ones out there ranging from scifi to fantasy to WW2 to modern warfare, but the Total War series doesn't really fit the bill...

Total War series are great games, but they are more like RTS coupled to Risk than RTS coupled to RPG...they should probably be called RTT...Real-Time Tactics although the Risk board game element does add a bit of strategic flavor...

 

Thanks, the Dawn Of War 2 games sounds interesting as well.. .hmm....

 

Whatever you, dont start at Supreme Commander, its a great game, but designed for experienced players not newcomers to the strategy arena and you might find it a little overwhelming trying to work out whats going on, plus it offers its love slowly rather than trying to draw you in like many games

Stuff like Warcraft 3, C&C 3 or Dawn of War 2 (Which is a bit strategy-light) would be good entry points.

 

speaking of dawn of war 2, anyone here still playing the last stand mode? anyone beat it?

 

Sins of a Solar Empire is great, only if you have the time to play. It can take hours and hours for a single game. Granted you can save the game and come back later.

 

King Arthur: The Role Playing War Game
This looks pretty sweet too it just came out about a month ago. If you like Arthurian legend mixed with some magic in a Total War type game with Heroes you upgrade with XP, skills, diplomacy etc... You can get it on Steam for $40

Dev Diaries
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/king-arthur/10502

Giant Bomb Quick Look
http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-king-arthur-the-rpwg/17-1775/

 

Hey Steven, are you looking for upgrades WITHIN a given battle or did you mean upgrades OUTSIDE of a battle (i.e. persistent upgrades that you carry with you from battle to battle so you get a sense of achievement from having won a battle). I don't know about outside of a battle, but pretty much all RTS have upgrades within a battle where you get bigger, more powerful units (higher tier) and you can upgrade and research to make your lower tier units stronger. But from my knowledge of RTS, which is pretty much only blizzard games, you lose all those upgrades and research and you start over again in the next battle.

 

Well, pretty much all RTSs offer upgrades and special abilities in the hopes of giving a player an advantage. The challange behind these games, as someone else pointed out, is deciding when and where to deploy these abilities and resources.

If you're looking for an RTS that abandons base-building and massive battles, Company of Heroes tends to start the fighting really early and involves a lot of micromanagement. It also requires more strategy than any other RTS I've played before.

 

Along the same lines as CoH is World in Conflict in that you don't have to acquire resources, you just wait for them to refresh. Yeah, I guess the OP may not be be clear no how vast the world of RTS games are. So many options, so many strategies, so much time.

 

AOE2

but if you like real strategy try the hearts of iron series. although i am not that big a fan of 3 yet.

 

Managed to get to wave 19 before i slaughted by spacko marines and dreadnaughts lol.

Back on topic i would be looking towards the likes of warcraft 3 and frozen throne expansion, as its not just about beating the other sides army their is a nice story in their as well.

Dawn of war 2 is worth a look as well, your primary hero charaters gain levels as you battle meaning you can upgrade them in the way you see fit.