The Ongoing Disasters of the EPIC Games Store

Of course they are all different items:

Epic Store Privacy Invasion
Epic Store Data Collection
Epic Store Insecurity
Epic Store lack of features
Epic / Tencent leading Publishers and Developers astray into bad business practices
Epic / Tencent feeding Chinese controlled data collection through the Great Wall of China
Epic / Tencent reflecting the CCP desire to buy off and control all it touches, Gaming is only one small aspect, but it gives the CCP direct access at Admin level to PC's with the Epic software installed.

With all of those individual yet connected disasters feeding into the same problem with an easy solution, Epic's Game Store is a bad idea to get involved with, don't get involved with Epic's Game Store.

It's pretty simple, I am surprised you find it confusing, or that you think I am making it confusing.

I'm pretty sure everyone here understands that each individual Epic / Tencent / Dupe problem is a disaster unto itself, but all lead back to the CCP and Chinese control solely interested in buying up and owning whatever they can without any respect or consideration to the problems they cause for all the gamers out there.

You did find some of what those posts mention, but no where near all of it or in the same depth, and what they did find confirms data collection activities collecting data from the system.

Whether you are ok with Epic / Tencent doing that or not, it's a data leak of personal and system information - along with Steam data for your activities and friends data - along with who knows what else, because it's encrypted - remember? you couldn't read the network traffic, so you have not proven it's safe at all, in fact you confirmed it's not safe.

It's simple - Don't Install Epic's software f you don't want Epic's software to be able pass on personal and steam data - not to mention it's got admin access to the system so it can go anywhere and do anything at any time the software can update installs with worse acting software, and you wouldn't even know it's happening.

I don't trust Epic / Tencent, and I can't see how any one can trust them enough to install the Epic Store software. Their business practices show them to be unscrupulous and without ethics, and I expect their intentions overall to be untrustworthy.

The answer is simple, don't install Epic software, don't give them money to feed their plans, stay away from Epic completely.

Yikes - Epic Game Store CAUGHT STEALING Personal Information!
Smash JT
Published on Mar 14, 2019
The Epic Games Store has come under fire lately for a slew of competitive moves against Valve's Steam. This latest infraction may just be the worst yet. Gamers have identified a check when the Epic Games Store loads up where it searches Steam for files on friend lists, purchases, games owned, time played, etc.
While on the surface, much of this is harmless, it points to a much larger issue with personal data protection and lack of disclosures by Tencent's Epic Games Store.


animatsuri 10 hours ago
"Pretty low. Getting your friends list would be indirectly exposing them to spam from Epic they didn't ask for. Seems I dodged a bullet not bothering with Epic even if I was missing out on a free game."

Jerome VV 10 hours ago
"Well, it's going to be hard for me to defend Epic against bad faith critics when there are now legitimate criticism to be had. I've deleted my account and sent a Tweet to Epic showing me deleting their app. Thanks Smash, I appreciate it."

Joelteon 5 hours ago
"Epic uninstalled. Don’t need it."

TheCompletionist 3 hours ago
"...Companies need to be punished for scummy tactics and the best way to hurt a company is hit them where it hurts the most which is usually their pocketbook..."

Epic Game Store, Spyware, Tracking, and You!
Thread starter lashman Start date Yesterday at 3:42 PM
https://metacouncil.com/threads/epic-game-store-spyware-tracking-and-you.766/
https://metacouncil.com/threads/epic-game-store-spyware-tracking-and-you.766/post-23857

Kurt Russell SUPREME OVERLORD Yesterday at 6:55 PM #16
"I checked my computer after reading madjoki's post on era, and they've been doing this since May 2018 at least. I have a folder with 90 files all with either my steam id or my brother's or a friend's when I helped them with stuff and logged in on my computer."

Spoiler: Click to see image...

madjoki MetaMember Yesterday at 9:07 PM #46
"Steam profiles are private by default.

Actually Kurt Russell 's image shows this starting when (May 2018) Steam made their profiles private by default, assuming this isn't coincide[ntal], this could be done to bypass [Steam] privacy options you set."

sk2k Junior Member Yesterday at 7:20 PM #24
"Ok. Bus Simulator 2018 was released in June 2018. I installed the mod tools for the simulator (unreal engine) in June 2018. I also found several "backups" with my steamID (steamID3 to be precise) in the filenames. First backup was made in June 2018. What the ****? Why?"

https://metacouncil.com/threads/epic-game-store-spyware-tracking-and-you.766/post-23922

 

I could see uninstalling it due to yet more laziness, but this doesn't seem malicious.

These guys should know with these exclusive deals being protested that no one is going to afford them the same luxury that Valve has for getting breaks for making mistakes and being lazy

 

Is all this information being stored in that single folder? If so, can you make it read only so nothing else gets written to it?

 

Seriously, you want to play "whack a mole" with a privacy invasive piece of malware - so you can keep playing games?

"The force is strong with that one..."

Actually, I think the best way to stop the privacy incursion is to uninstall EGS completely - it's the only way to be sure...short of doing a reinstall of Windows OS.

 

Even then you might still have some snoopware tainting your drives.

IMO I'm gonna stick with steam I like what they are doing with their proton/electron thing and it might finally facilitate me moving to Linux.

Sent from my LM-Q710.FGN using Tapatalk

 

Hey look, a levelheaded analysis.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/03/15/epic-games-deny-spying-allegations/

 

I'm also way more inclined to believe that Epic did all this mess with a 'hidden' agenda like data mining.

If they just wanted to get in the market and grow their player base, they could have taken a way less aggressive approach. Leave the games on steam too and work on a good marketing campaign to lure customers with good prices for example or other incentives, not force them. Honestly this way they are just enticing... the p-word and undermining good developers by simply driving away potential customers.

 

What a surprise, Epic denys everything, even in the face of the actual data collected about them collecting data by snooping around in areas they have no business being in.

Yes, let's believe the lying liars that lie, because we can't understand why anyone would want to take advantage of us, such a nice person as ourselves, they'd never do that, and see they say they aren't doing that.

"May I please stick my head back in the warm sand?"

Sure buddy, you go ahead, no baddies out here to worry about, just keep that head down and don't mind the noises, it's nothing really. - EGS

 

I'm not "sticking my head in the sand". I'm making an informed rational decision based on facts.

There is one thing I do agree they need to change in the client, and that's using local files to import friends instead of the Steam API. Super lazy.

This was a good take:

 

No, you aren't, you are trying to find a way to excuse their behavior by using illogical exceptions and means to defend the indefensible. There is no defense for them, their behavior is not lazy it's purposeful.

Invading the Steam Folder to scrape for private information on the user is more difficult than if they used the Steam Friends API, instead what they accomplished was to circumvent the privacy restrictions put in place by individuals and went around them using the scraping of the Steam folder instead. Note the reporting of the Steam API May 2018 privacy switch over and timing for Epic's use of the Steam folder scraping coincide.

Epic / Tencent is a bad company, using illicit and unethical practices both in business, programming, privacy, and who knows what else, and by association are taring the publishers and developers that sign on for exclusive deals. In the public eye's, they are all one and the same in their offensive behaviors.

I'd let them all work things out and start flying straight and true, if that every happens, before getting involved with them.

 

The articles about EPIC privacy issues only cover some aspects and aren't always up to date or inclusive of what has been found so far. EPIC is responding saying they will fix the issues, hopefully people will track the following through. I also hope that the leaks of user info that end up as phishing and account compromise attacks aren't related, but that they are also found and stopped.

EPIC Promises to Fix Game Launcher after Privacy Concerns
By Sergiu Gatlan, March 15, 2019 11:24 AM
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...-to-fix-game-launcher-after-privacy-concerns/

"...
CEO possibly behind controversial data collection behavior
Epic Games CEO and Founder Tim Sweeney also chimed in to answer some of the gamers' questions on Reddit, stating that "Since this issue came to the forefront we're going to fix it."

Sweeney said that the current way of collecting client Steam info from users' computers is actually his fault:

You guys are right that we ought to only access the localconfig.vdf file after the user chooses to import Steam friends. The current implementation is a remnant left over from our rush to implement social features in the early days of Fortnite.

It's actually my fault for pushing the launcher team to support it super quickly and then identifying that we had to change it. Since this issue came to the forefront we're going to fix it.

We don't use the Steam API because we work to minimize the number of third-party libraries we include in our products due to security and privacy concerns (not from Valve specifically, but see e.g. https://www.macrumors.com/2019/02/22/ios-apps-sending-private-data-to-facebook/ for the general concern of APIs collecting more data than expected)

EpicGames Launcher enumerating running processes
"We're working to update the implementation so that the Epic Games launcher only touches the Steam file at all if you choose to import friends" stated Sweeney in reply to concerns that the program is tracking Steam play time for various games.

BleepingComputer has reached out to Epic Games and Valve for additional comments but had not heard back at the time of this publication. The article will be updated when responses will be received.
..."

Update March 15, 2019, 12:49 EDT: A Valve spokesperson responded to our request stating that the information stored within the localconfig.vdf Steam file is not intended to be used by other software:

"We are looking into what information the Epic launcher collects from Steam.

The Steam Client locally saves data such as the list of games you own, your friends list and saved login tokens (similar to information stored in web browser cookies). This is private user data, stored on the user's home machine and is not intended to be used by other programs or uploaded to any 3rd party service.

Interested users can find localconfig.vdf and other Steam configuration files in their Steam Client’s installation directory and open them in a text editor to see what data is contained in these files. They can also view all data related to their Steam account at: https://help.steampowered.com/en/accountdata."

Update March 15, 2019, 13:16 EDT: We also got a reply from Epic Games:

" We've responded to in full here: https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoi..._game_store_spyware_tracking_and_you/eijlbge/

Specifically, on the Steam stuff, this is the relevant piece: "We only import your Steam friends with your explicit permission. The launcher makes an encrypted local copy of your localconfig.vdf Steam file. However information from this file is only sent to Epic if you choose to import your Steam friends, and then only hashed ids of your friends are sent and no other information from the file."

More on that article page...

Also an interesting read from the same site:

Chinese IT Services Giant Harvests Contacts, Tracks Users
By Ionut Ilascu, March 13, 2019 12:16 PM
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...ervices-giant-harvests-contacts-tracks-users/

"Servers controlled by Chinese IT and services giant Hangzhou Shunwang Technology collect phone contact lists, geolocation, and QQ messenger login info through a data-stealing component present in up to a dozen Android apps available from major third-party stores in the country.

The code that steals the information hides in a data analytics Software Development Kit (SDK) integrated into seemingly benign apps and delivers the scraped details whenever the phone reboots or the infected app starts.

Researchers believe that gathering end users' contact lists is likely to happen without app developers knowing about it.

Most of the apps are system utilities and can be installed from big-name app stores in China such as Tencent MyApp, Wandoujia, Huawei App Store, and Xiaomi App Store.

The compromised apps have been downloaded at least 111 million times.

Some of the developers seem to be connected to Shunwang Technology because their apps are published only on the company's website.

Feixiang He and Andrey Polkovnichenko, malware analyst and reverse engineer at Check Point, dubbed this data-pilfering venture 'Operation Sheep' and have been tracking it since mid-September.

Looking through the SDK code, they noticed that the data exfiltration process does not occur on Meitu phones. Also, the operation targets only devices running Android 6 (Marshmallow) and up, which makes for more than 70% of the Android market share.

All affected apps integrate the SWAnalytics SDK and ask for a larger set of permissions than required for normal functioning.

One of the apps analyzed while monitoring 'Operation Sheep' is Network Speed Master and it asks for access to location data, the camera, and phone contacts, data that is useless to a network monitoring tool."

Operation Sheep: Pilfer-Analytics SDK in Action
March 13, 2019, Research by: Feixiang He, Andrey Polkovnichenko
https://research.checkpoint.com/operation-sheep-pilfer-analytics-sdk-in-action/

"Check Point Research has recently discovered a group of Android applications massively harvesting contact information on mobile phones without the user’s consent. The data stealing logic hides inside a data analytics Software Development Kit (SDK) seen in up to 12 different mobile applications and has so far been downloaded over 111 million times.

Dubbed ‘Operation Sheep’, this massive data stealing campaign is the first known campaign seen in the wild to exploit the Man-in-the-Disk vulnerability revealed by Check Point Research earlier last year."

This kind of SDK infiltrated scraping path can be implemented without the developer knowing they are redistributing malware that overreaches on permissions allowing for wide ranging access to users data, and isn't something that is easily found. It can be snuck in to phone SDK as well as PC SDK's for games, networking, security, DRM, store apps support, etc.

That's why it's important to be vigilant in monitoring software access to files processes and network in Chinese sourced hardware and software, and a good idea in general across the board.

Epic / Tencent don't care about who they screw or how they take exclusive IP, even robbing small investors of their investment benefits and promised expectations.

It's apparent Tencent / Epic offer such large sums of cash that can turn many weak minded individuals from their commitments, screwing themselves - their partners - and their customers now and in the future as fallout from their actions ripple outwards.

Epic is building their business on stolen dreams and broken promises, screw Epic.

Upset Backers Feel Scammed by Phoenix Point Devs' Abrupt Epic Store Exclusivity Announcement
YongYea
Published on Mar 16, 2019

Spoiler: Sources

SOURCE 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmjFZ...
SOURCE 2: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...
SOURCE 3: https://www.fig.co/campaigns/phoenix-...
SOURCE 4: https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint...
SOURCE 5: https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint...

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Johann Minharo 4 hours ago
"I'm one of the backers who submitted a refund. I'm not upset because they're releasing the game on the Epic store; rather, I'm upset it's being set as an exclusive to the Epic store after they promised to release the game on Steam, promising backers could play the game on their preferred platform.

Devs need to be punished for misleading backers like this. Don't support devs who engaged in practices like this. Make your voice heard by taking action with your wallet.

They seem to only value currency. Use that to your advantage."

rgc517 55 minutes ago (edited)
1* Request your refund.
2* Don't buy the game.
3* Don't buy any future games made by them.
That's the only way they will understand. Let your money do the talk. And stay away from crowdfunding..."

TallulahSoie 3 hours ago
"I love Xcom. This makes me never want to support a crowdfunded game ever again. I'm not getting burned like this again."

Phoenix Point & SnapShot Games - How to turn your entire community against you
AstartesGaming
Published on Mar 13, 2019
So the latest game in development from the original creator of the X-COM series, Phoenix Point, just became an Epic Games Store exclusive. Unfortunately, none of the people who crowd-funded the game were consulted or informed before the decision was made.


Pinned by AstartesGaming
AstartesGaming 3 days ago
"Prior to this news, I had backed the game at the $50, "Luxury Digital Edition" tier. As of the publishing of this video, I have submitted my refund request through Xsolla and am awaiting confirmation. I will not be purchasing any further games developed by Snapshot, nor will I ever use the Epic Games Store or Launcher. **** Epic Games."

Alexander Stuart 2 days ago
"$75 Soldier edition backer here, refund request submitted. Twice. Doing the math, the 28 day response time is about three days before the expiration of the refund offer. Keeping a close eye on this one."

Bra Veda 13 hours ago
"Didn't see the mail yet, but no way. Not a fan of the epic game store, this is not what I backed. Will be refunding. Time to replay xcom2"

PHOENIX POINT Creator BETRAYS Crowd Funding Backers to take GOLDEN HANDSHAKE!!
HeelvsBabyface
Published on Mar 15, 2019
PHOENIX POINT was a crowd funded game that got 153% of it's intended target taking in over $750,000! However they have betrayed their backers and gone back on promises to release it on steam and gog by accepting a Golden Handshake to go exclusively with the Epic Launcher.


skuly 2032 1 day ago
"Gollop has been in the games industry since the spectrum 48K and all that good rep he had with gamers just went pop and blew away in the wind."

RP S 1 day ago
"Most of all I think this is going to be bad news for future crowdfunding."

Brutal Beauty 1 day ago
"Another game I will not get, When the game is not even out yet and you dont even care about your backers/player base no way will i support you. real sick of seeing Epic poping up all over the place too."

 

Epic Store Accused of Accessing Private Steam User Data Without Permission, Valve Disapproves
YongYea
Published on Mar 17, 2019

Spoiler: Sources + Details

SOURCE 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint...
SOURCE 2: https://metacouncil.com/threads/epic-...
SOURCE 3: https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint...
SOURCE 4: https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint...
SOURCE 5: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...
SOURCE 6: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news...

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Keybraker 6 minutes ago
"Delete epic for ever"

Carlos 7 minutes ago
"This pushed me to uninstall the epic games launcher. Thanks for keeping us in the loop YongYea."

Abhinav Chhetri 2 minutes ago
"Okay Wow thanks for this video there is no epic on my PC Revo Pro has done its job."

tvtim 1 minute ago
"After seeing that little bit about Randy Pitchford's tweet, I seriously hope Borderlands 3 isn't a damn "epic" exclusive; I'll just skip it at launch if it is."

Johnny Patterson 1 minute ago
"They got * busted for spying. Seriously, stop buying from these pricks."

FetchQuestAssigner 4432 1 minute ago
"Its import to remember that this is how they operate,they do not have integrity. So even if they change this,please remember they will * you elsewhere."

 

Yeah I'll keep it simple....screw epic

 

I won't install Epic on any system.

Far as I'm concerned Metro Exodus release date is February 2020.

 

Hopefully new potential Epic Store victims will read the overwhelmingly negative gamer responses and get a clue to stay away. IP managers as potential Epic Store victims need to wake up to the failure of putting out exclusives.

Once sales show disappointing take up rate through that year, it'll be clear to Epic it's not working and they will have to put their money elsewhere to get benefits.

It's probably too late for Epic Store to pull out of it, but at least they are a good example for the next attempt at making a competitive online store.

With game streaming like Stadia, it may be a moot point anyway.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ga-polaris-gpus.799348/page-568#post-10883503
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/google-stadia.828080/#post-10883931
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/nvidia-thread.806608/page-210#post-10883617
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/nvidia-thread.806608/page-210#post-10883504

 

Looks like I'm going to be buying a lot of games on the epic store

 

Looks like I'm not buying anything from Epic and supporting their exclusivity crap on PC.
I'm going to wait, till those games return to other stores (Steam, GOG, GMG), or ignore them completely.

 

Same here. This is a good exercise of self control and patience. Some are bound to fail. Some are weak, some are strong

 

Some will be playing games, some will not..

Just wait until Doom: Eternal is announced as a Stadia exclusive.

 

I thought that was going to be Bethesda store exclusive, same with rage 2.

I'll happily sleep on those titles after the way they acted with FO76 and customer support.

Sent from my LM-Q710.FGN using Tapatalk

 

Sounds perfect, considering the high amount of input lag Doom 2016 had.

 

Did EPIC leave Metro Exodus out of their GDC 2019 Announcements? I'd at least expect a frame or two for exposure...the youtube comments are the reason I posted this, check'em out.

Epic Games Store - GDC 2019 Announcements
Epic Games
Published on Mar 20, 2019
Check out all of these exciting games coming to the Epic Games store!


TheMusic4Soul 15 hours ago
"Well, chinese companies know nothing about real competion. They just come in and buy stuff out."

Useless Popcorn 15 hours ago
"Man i love losing my rights to choose what platforms i want to buy on and love seeing Epic violating EU Privacy laws"

microlab21 15 hours ago
"Epic is spending a lot of money to delay a bunch of PC releases by one year.. but WHY??"

UnionDirector 12 hours ago
"There's your "competition", folks. Epic is "competing" with others by bribing publishers and unleashing "console wars" on PC. Well, guess 2020 will flood us with fresh releases..."

eRe4s3r 46 minutes ago
"I am simple bloke, I see Phoenix Point being advertised by Epic, I dislike. Epic being proud of scamming FIG Backers who backed a STEAM and GOG game is imo the pinnacle of everything that's wrong with this "pro-consumer" strategy (can't even put that in enough quotes).

Epic poisons the communities and increases the toxicity in a community that already had a toxicity problem. I fail to see how that's improving gaming. You can't take 2 steps anywhere without encountering Epic bashing and hate on every single developer that sold their communities to Epic.

Is that the future of gaming that Epic wants to introduce? I don't wanna be a part of that. And worse, Epic Store is exactly that, a store, not a place for community of a game, for guides, screenshots and discussions. Those apparently still should exist on Steam... yeah, good luck with that EPIC."

Great, 2K screwed the developers... and put Outer Worlds on Epic... another cash grab screwup by the publisher. Apparently it's on the Microsoft Gaming Store too. Meh. I'll wait for Steam / GOG / etc.

The Outer Worlds Will Be Epic Store Exclusive, and Fans Are Pissed
YongYea
Published on Mar 20, 2019

Spoiler: Sources

SOURCE 1: https://twitter.com/OuterWorlds/status/1108423193138618369
SOURCE 2: https://www.pcgamer.com/the-outer-worlds-and-control-will-launch-on-the-epic-store-not-steam/
SOURCE 3: https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-says-m...pic-store-than-metro-last-light-did-on-steam/

The Outer Worlds Epic Exclusive?! + Epic FAILS Metro Exodus
The Triple S League
Streamed live 14 hours ago
According to announcements made today at the GDC, a number of highly anticipate upcoming games (including The Outer Worlds and Control) as well as a number of Sony exclusives from Quantic Dream (including Detroit: Become Human and Heavy Rain) will be bypassing steam in favor of the Epic Games Store. Given the growing number of games moving in this direction, we decided to take a look at the sales numbers for one of the first Epic exclusives, Metro Exodus, and what we found is not encouraging.


Pinned by The Triple S League
The Triple S League 13 hours ago
"This just in guys. One of Sybsidian's contacts at Obsidian have confirmed that many of the devs were against putting it on the epic store . They are very upset and will not be working with 2k in the future. More news will be breaking on this over the next few days. Reddit and twitter community users are pretty much universally against this."

Epic Claims Outer Worlds As Exclusive, And Steam Users Are Angry AF
Laymen Gaming
Published on Mar 20, 2019
Epic Games has continued to snap its Thanos fingers and more games are signing exclusive agreements with Epic Games. RIP non-exclusive pc games.

Spoiler: Click to See Video

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/amp/epic-sa...pic-store-than-metro-last-light-did-on-steam/

I imagine it would have sold even better if it wasn't artificially choked out of the market.

Also wasn't last light The game that stepped metro from a cult niche following to more mainstream?

Sent from my LM-Q710.FGN using Tapatalk

 

Epic forgot to mention that most of those Metro Exodus sales includes the Heavily Advertised on Steam Pre-Sales originally destined for Steam, now hijacked - taped over on the box - and redirected to Epic.

And, Epic are talking about the *original* Last Light, not Last Light Redux!! Sheez, the original Last Light was released eon's ago!! But, most people will think of the Redux Last Light which probably sold 10x more than the original, right?

I'm sure that at least 10x Last Light Sales would have been possible on Steam for Metro Exodus without all of this bad juju by Epic, Deep Silver, and 4A.

The press wants this conflict to go away, Epic probably spends money with them, but the user comments suggest this isn't going away.

195 Comments
https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-says-m...n-metro-last-light-did-on-steam/#comment-jump

Andy Parker • 2 hours ago
"What a stupid comment to make. Had Metro Exodus been available on Steam, we'd have seen exactly how well it sold on both platforms. As it is, all we have is this ludicrous comparison between a new game and one that was released years ago."

...But there's more to the story
By Cohen Coberly on March 20, 2019, 4:57 PM
11 comments
https://www.techspot.com/news/79292-metro-exodus-sales-25-times-better-epic-games.html

Edwin Obando • 16 hours ago
""majority of PC gamers are fine with the Epic Games Store". What kind of data measurement you used to get to that conclusion? It seems your readers aren't fine with this. I came here running away from PC Gamer because this, those guys made claims like that every time, they think they represent the "majority"."

137 Comments... under an article with Epic fawning treatment like the others...
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/metr...than-metro-last-light-on-steam/#disqus_thread

Snake56 • 16 hours ago
"It's a BS statement. It's like when Ubisoft announced that the Epic Store had a record in pre-orders for The Division 2 and in the same press release said that most of the pre-orders were on the Ubi Store."

 

Dunno if you posted this one already. Lol



Sent from my LM-Q710.FGN using Tapatalk

 

Amazingly, I missed that one.

FYI, what I do before posting a video is to do a global NBR search on the Youtube ID, which in this case is: WOG63a5OjK8

And, that's part of the URL - easy to find. Then put in that ID as the search text, uncheck the boxes that limit the search to this forum or thread, and then see who else might have posted before you found it... in this case no one else posted it besides yourself:

Doing that search before posting gets rid of 99.99% of the collisions for duplicate postings of content, sometimes someone else is doing it at the exact same time, so I'll often do another search after I submit the post to make sure another person didn't do it at the same time.

Also, it's ok to post the same video in different subject threads, although you shouldn't do that yourself, but someone else can have a post in another thread that has the video, and you can either post it in your thread or post a link to their video, I'll do that myself occasionally - post a link in a thread to the actual video posted in another thread.

Hope that helps.

 

Ah ok. I'm on mobile 90% of the time so I'll have to keep that in mind and see if I can get it to run on desktop with the phone.

And I figured it might be safe. Lol it had only been up for about 20 or so minutes before I got to it.

Sent from my LM-Q710.FGN using Tapatalk

 

The Outer Worlds now Epic Games Exclusive - Angry Rant!
AngryJoeShow
Published on Mar 20, 2019
The Epic Games Store vs. Steam Store War is getting really annoying now. Here is our Angry Rant and thoughts on the recent announcement of The Outer Worlds, Control and some 20 other titles going Epic Games Exclusives on PC.

 

I didn't even notice playing it.. there's a heavily competitive esports game in there that isn't much better and no one is complaining.

 

Outer Worlds BOUGHT OUT By Epic REMOVED FROM STEAM. Epic Games Store Is AWFUL. Unlisted
boogie2988
Published on Mar 21, 2019
In this video we take a look at Epic Store vs Steam once again. we talk about Epic getting caught scooping up user data, we take a look at epic BUYING games such as Metro exodus, and now The Outer Worlds. We talk about why so much of what epic is doing is bad for consumers, gaming, and the gaming industry as a whole.


SG_GameTeam 1 day ago
"Releasing in 2019: "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I am gonna buy this sucker on the first week!" Releasing exclusively on Epic: "...nevermind, I'll just play something else""

Gergő Marton 22 hours ago
"Congrats Epic, you have managed to piss off one of the most kind hearted, modest person in the world, who tries to avoid picking sides and do it it in a way that he sets himself apart from it completely. That says A LOT."

Adam Ant 1 day ago
"Epic stealing data, tracking you, and inserting spyware is why I'll NEVER use it! I don't care what games they get, I won't support them."

Bobby Quinn 1 day ago
I was so excited for the game Satisfactory and now they have it exclusively at Epic and me and my friend refuse to get it.

Twisted Gears 14 hours ago
"A friend of mine asked me if I'd like to play Satisfactory in multiplayer not too long ago, and even offered to buy it for me. I outright refused. I told'em that I wasn't going to support the practices these guys are pulling, at all."

JMD5 Gaming 4 hours ago
"I was going to look up Satisfactory later because I thought it sounded interesting. Hearing that it's an EGS exclusive has completely turned me off of even considering buying it now (or ever). Thanks for saving me 5 minutes."

So proud of these gamers, brings a tear to my eye and hope to my heart for the future.

 

https://www.pcgamesn.com/metro-exodus/metro-exodus-sales

 

I'm not surprised the game sold well.

A) It is a really good game.
B ) PC gaming has exploded since 2013 with more and more people being able to access the hobby and the connections to do so becoming more and more common.

That it sold 2x more as last light isn't really surprising. hell witcher 3 utterly curb stomped the witcher 2's life time sales in its first week alone and went on to beat it by almost 5x it seems. W2's 1.7m to w3's approximately 10m copies.

In the end I see no reason why that number couldn't have been bolstered even more by releasing it on both platforms at the same time.

As well as I know this is anecdotal and going to be ignored but I know about a half a dozen people in my immediate RL social circle that wont buy it on epic and would rather wait for the steam release or not at all, that is 6 extra sales they could have had by being open with their game and honoring a deal already in place.

Sadly money is more important to devs, publishers and investors than their customers.

 

I would also add, it's not stated where it sold better. I think everyone remembers ME jumping to the top of the seller list on Steam day before it disappeared.
And I think if the game was available on both Steam and Epic (and any other platform as well), it would have sold even better, because there are plenty of people who held out the purchase of the game, including myself. Obviously it wouldn't sell so well on Epic store, but it would hold sold more regardless.

 

Oh, I have zero doubts they would have sold more copies if it was available on Steam. Depends on how much exactly. I'm sure the 4A bean counters are analyzing this data very closely.

 

This needs to be stopped...first apple then windows...now steam then epic

 

As long as I can buy Outer Worlds from MS store - I don't care if it's not available on Steam. Yes, having more choice is good, but if I can still buy it from other places than Epic Store - it's enough of choice for me. Valve can go **** themselves with their greedy revenue share, if they took lower share for themselves - I'm sure publishers would not so easily agree to Epic's bribes.

 

Perhaps the upkeep of all the servers and store, and all the other features costs money?

Whose to say if Epic is undercharging to *buy* the marketplace? It's not the first time a company has tried to buy dominance in a market, then raise prices when the competition is gone.

It may very well be that even a few percentage points drop in share would result in a reduction of services we are used to getting on Steam.

Not saying I know one way or the other exactly what it costs for Steam to make a 1 time sale of an item and then provide "decades" of running support, but I do know it's not cheap powering and cooling worldwide hardware and staffing a company to provide services.

Steam has provided a reliable and stable service for a long time, all my games came at a discount from list - I don't pre-order or buy early - so for me Steam has been a real bargain as far as costs.

 

I am glad that it is this way for you, honey. Just please understand that the same is not true for everyone. I've been a Steam user since 2006, it has not been a very good "bargain" for me (I buy games as soon as they are released, so I stopped feeding fat GabeN long time ago since Steam is NOT COMPETITIVE when it comes to new games and I buy game keys for new games legally elsewhere and only use Steam for activation of those keys if there is no other choice) and I also have had plenty of experience with ****ty Steam's customer support and their lack of moderation (as well as inability to gift a game to certain friends overseas). So I have 0 attachment to it and do not mind at all if developer would choose a different distributor (if they would think that it would result in more profit for them - after all, this is the ONLY REASON why game developers make games and game publishers sell them) as long as I am satisfied with that digital distributor (in case of Outer Worlds I don't mind downloading game from MS store since I use it anyway and it has not caused any undesirable behavior).

 

MS is far worse than Steam, IDK what your personal experience is but Windows 10 sucks to begin with especially for inexperienced people, and adding the MS Store on top of that is too much of a burden to buy a game and get updates, still not anywhere near as good as Steam for the same game buying and services.

And, you seem to agree in that you are mostly complaining about paying too much for new games - so you use 3rd party key services which is fine, and there are other bundle services to save money, and I've used them all - and it's nice that Steam allows it and supports it.

I've not had any problems with Steam customer service, even the times when I've had questions about a key that enabled something I wasn't expecting. A problem Steam could have just blown me off about, and instead stuck with it for about a week of back and forth emails.

There were a number of emails where they needed to research my buying history and figure out what happened - why some things were enabled and others weren't, and Steam figured it out.

I took that info back to the key seller - I think it was Kinguin for that purchase and Kinguin similarly did a great job setting me up with additional keys to make good on what was advertised via the sales blurb vs what I actually got.

Another time, what I thought was a similar situation, was me mis-reading the listing and I got what I ordered, but not what I wanted, and Kinguin refunded my purchase. Steam's answers set things right that time too.

I guess if I had a desire that Steam's service didn't offer - like your gifting in a region that didn't allow it - I might be disappointed, but I doubt I'd hate Steam over it, any more than when I didn't get what I wanted via the key I used that didn't actually give me what I was looking to get.

The only attachment I have to Steam is that they've done a good job for me and made good on providing reliable service.

I do try to stay away from the big sales on Steam, my backlog is large enough. I'll have to make an exception for all of these Steam games that have become Epic exclusives.

When all the Epic Exclusive games come back to Steam and eventually go on a nice fat discount. That will be a double pleasure for me, I can feel the joy of it building even now...

From your complaints, Epic or any Store could provide the same complaints from you, don't you agree?

Another competitor to Steam would be fine, that none have emerged might mean that it's a tough business for anyone to make a buck on, there are lots of other ways to make money that are better - and worse - you'd have to love gaming and the whole thing would be a love of gaming type thing, not just for the money.

Hopefully another group like Valve that love gaming, hit it big, and get a pile of cash will build a Store slowly and do it from the ethical side of business. That would be something I'd use, but I wouldn't have any stars in my eye's that their store would be problem free. No matter how good you make something there's always someone that's gonna be a hater about it, and there's always problems along the way - things you learn that work and things that don't work. It's a long process - that's why you have to love it to make it work.

That's where Epic is screwing up, maybe it's being pushed by the big Chinese investors to be vicious and brutal - heartlessly treating customers by breaking business norms - greasing the way with large amounts of money, there's no love in it.

Epic is already a lost cause, lots of gamers hate'em and Epic have hardly started, signing up a bunch of hungry developers is easy - trying to then sell games to pissed off gamers that won't even install your store - that's impossible.

Whoever comes next, at least Epic has provided a bunch of great examples of what *not* to do.

 

That's your opinion. I had no issues buying games from their digital store before and I doubt that I will have any with Outer Worlds (of course, there's always a possibility of something going wrong so time will tell).

 

Of course it's my opinion, I wrote about my personal experiences.

" MS is far worse than Steam, IDK what your personal experience is but Windows 10 sucks to begin with especially for inexperienced people, and adding the MS Store on top of that is too much of a burden to buy a game and get updates, still not anywhere near as good as Steam for the same game buying and services."

I was specifically referring to Microsoft's Windows 10 terrible update issues, years of failures as compared to practically zero problems with Steam software. It's a much better experience on Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8.1 + Steam - "It just works!"

You seem overly negative about Steam for what appear to be small complaints.

Developers might be able to update their contracts to avoid this Epic problem, with publishers making deals that give them Epic sign on bonuses with small pass through's of those bonus's to the developers.

Here's some discussion about Obsidian and how they were uploading Achievement updates for Outer Worlds to Steam about the same time the exclusive was being done by Take2 and Epic.

I won't go into the details, other than to say that Epic's arrival + the idea of exclusives appears to provide a need to update developer / publisher agreements to take into account these exclusives - or developers could lose control of where they expected their IP to be sold and lose bonuses expected and lose %'s of bonuses unanticipated.

Podcast 116: Another Publisher Betrays Obsidian
The Triple S League
Streamed live on Mar 22, 2019
Podcast 116: Another Publisher Betrays Obsidian

 

I can see them loosing a lot of sales bonuses etc if they shift to a single platform.

Because while a good chunk of casual users are probably fine with installing epic, a bunch are on the fence or don't care for it.

Hopefully the honest devs can get something out of it themselves because they are gonna need something to replace my dollars that would have otherwise trickled down to them at one point or another.

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Epic Games Store - Shady Practices
Upper Echelon Gamers
Published on Mar 18, 2019


The Epic Games Store is Bad for PC Gaming and Must Be Stopped | Timed Exclusivity is Cancer
Griffin Gaming
Published on Mar 23, 2019
The Epic Games Store is literally the cancer of PC gaming. Epic Games has just paid for timed exclusivity for Obsidian's new game the Outer Worlds and Remedy's new game Control. The games have been pulled from Steam and are now exclusive for a year. This buying of timed exclusives is extreemly bad for PC Gaming as a whole and must be stopped now. Epic continues to make themselves the enemy of the PC gaming community in their desperate attempt to come up with a way to continue making money once Fortnite dies. Add in the Egic Games Store spyware and privacy concerns, the Chinese company Tencent owning 40% of Epic Games, and these timed exclusives and you have have a recipe for pissing off the entire PC community and making your store the most hated platform on PC. I hope it was worth it Epic.


EPIC CEO Calls Out STEAM, Big Metro Apology, Fight For 88/12
Bellular News
Published on Mar 23, 2019
Another stacked week in gaming as the Epic Games VS Valve rivalry intensifies!


Epic CEO Says "Gamers Don't See" Epic Store is Making Industry Better
YongYea
Published on Mar 24, 2019
SOURCE 1: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/amp/2...-the-industry-better-but-gamers-dont-see-that
SOURCE 2: https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-says-itll-eventually-stop-pushing-for-exclusives/#comment-jump
SOURCE 3:
https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-on-pulling-metro-exodus-from-steam-we-dont-want-to-do-that-ever-again/

 

Bethesda came to their senses and are going to bring their games to steam.

Now if bethesda game works could just fix that damnable engine of theirs.

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Added Bonus: Bethesda is giving away Morrowind - Today Only! - ends March 31st - that is TODAY!!

"The giveaway is part of a celebration of the Elder Scrolls series 25th anniversary! All you need to do to snag your digital copy is head over to the official website and redeem it using the code TES25TH-MORROWIND. There’s also a couple of other promotions for the Elder Scrolls Online and Elder Scrolls Legends, which you can check out right here!"
https://cogconnected.com/2019/03/bethesda-morrowind-free-today/

The only catch is you have to use the Bethesda Launcher...

That's great news! I hope more games will release without Epic exclusives.

Bethesda ‏Verified account @bethesda
We’re pleased to announce that RAGE 2, Wolfenstein: Youngblood, Wolfenstein: Cyberpilot, and DOOM Eternal will be released on Steam as well as https://beth.games/2Mhhqoi . We will also be bringing Fallout 76 to Steam later this year. 10:01 AM - 25 Mar 2019
https://twitter.com/bethesda/status/1110225138979651584

Fallout 76, Doom Eternal, Rage 2, and Wolfenstein: Youngblood are all coming to Steam
Bethesda declares for Valve.
By Andy Chalk 5 hours ago
https://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-76-...lfenstein-youngblood-are-all-coming-to-steam/

 

So it looks like Ubisoft has figured out the "total win" solution for themselves in this Epic Store battle.

Steam lists the game and sells it during pre-order time, fulfilling on Steam, then when the game is released the game is "exclusive" on Epic store - but only sold not redeemed or played on Epic launcher - the game is redeemed on Ubisoft's game store and launcher, where the game is also sold.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/916440/Anno_1800/
https://www.pcgamer.com/anno-1800-w...t-can-be-pre-purchased-on-steam-until-launch/

Ubisoft gets all the $ and upgrade / DLC sales, hosts it from their service - and while offering an olive branch to Steam to get some action - stiffing Epic from the foot traffic after the sale.

https://store.steampowered.com/publisher/ubisoft

Ubisoft / Steam / Epic content is interwoven through this episode, index list isn't up yet, but I don't think it will help enough to jump past some of the discussion to go into the focused section, you'll miss key points of serendipitous discussion - all about Ubisoft / Steam / Epic, or start @ about 04:15:

PC GAME REMOVED FROM STEAM - UBISOFT RIPPING OFF PC GAMERS!
CultOfMush
Published on Mar 31, 2019

 

Yea. I am not surprised they did that. Like I thought EA would have done it first but they are on their own thing.



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Epic Store PC Exclusives Still Suck
Current straw poll confirms 50% sentiment solidly against Epic Skulduggery.

...apparently 34% haven't a clue about the total situation... leaving the other 16% "undecided", with other more pressing issues to consider.

A Ryzen Matisse Benchmark Appears, Intel's 56 core 112 thread CPU - Awesome Hardware #0183-B
Paul's Hardware
Streamed live 2 hours ago
A Ryzen Matisse Benchmark Appears, Intel's 56 core 112 thread CPU - Awesome Hardware #0183-B

Spoiler: other details...

Watch Side A on Kyle's Channel! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrGWq...
AFTERPARTY -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGM0h...
Dual-broadcast LIVE on http://twitch.tv/awesomehardware
We'll be doing another show next Tuesday @ 5:30PM PT!

It's "nice" to see Tencent funding security research in areas other than monitoring gamers. Tencent has a "global" view of compromising technology and gathering together whatever it needs to assist in ventures, whatever they are.

Keen Security Lab Blog
Tencent Keen Security Lab: Experimental Security Research of Tesla Autopilot
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...utopilot-division.808387/page-7#post-10890812


PC Digital Pre-Order - Epic Only for 6 months...

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/borderlands-3.828219/page-3#post-10890829

 

That 2020 winter sale is going to be banging as the kids say.

2020 year of the gamer for sure.


Oh, also I wanted to point out another quibble with the while "but muh console exclusives" argument.

The consoles are a platform, not a store. Yes they have a built in storefront that is very successful. But that being said if you want you can still go to best buy, GameStop, future shop, Amazon, ebgames, 1000's of small mom and pop or other small retail brands to buy your games.

Hell when I lived in the ass end of nowhere I would buy my games from the business computer repair shop because it was safer and easier than riding my bike down the highway or across the trails to the next town with more than 4 businesses. Lol.

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https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019...ets-less-than-30-percent-of-steam-game-sales/

Gonna double post to leave this here.