The initial verdict on next gen performance

Well. Here we are days before the release of the new consoles. Dirt 5 and AC Valhalla have been tested and the news is good for 1080p and 1440p gamers not so much 4k.

Dirt 5 on a lower end GTX 1060 GPU with only 6 GB of VRAM can net 60 fps on all low at 1080p and a playable albeit not visually enjoyable experience.. and can get 40fps on both games on ultra/high at 1080p as an average.

So what does this mean for PC gamers.

An end to poorly ported ports. Gamers might need a 8gb or 6gb card like the 2060 but Thier investment in a new laptop is not out the window. I was worried about the 12gb VRAM requirements for watch dog Legion but if you game at 1440p or 1080p on a laptop your more than likely to be able to squeeze the next few years out of your 2060.2070.or 2080 laptop. And since most people don't game at 4k on a small laptop screen this is decidedly good if not great news

 

I hope you're right and optimization woes are a thing of the past. It would be nice to see gaming advancements with a minimal number of systems being left behind.
On the other hand, that usually is not how things turn out and I believe in past generations developers usually learn how to extract more performance out of the console architectures (which the present one could o could not be another example) and the requirements for PCs deepen.
Let's hope it's the first case and no the latter!

 

X86...nuff said there

I think if you have a 2060 and don't mind gaming on low you will be good for at least another 4years

 

I think “low” is a bit harsh for the 2060. Medium and high for a 2060 at 1080p for the next couple of years

 

yes i was just being conservative

really exciting times for pc gamers...xbox games incoming from microshaft

 

I'd say an RTX 2060 could last this whole next console generation if you're content with 60 fps (which I'm not ). The new consoles have GPUs with processing power on par with the RTX 2060. The earlier performance claims were pretty outlandish.

 

really? I was still under the impression that they were in the 2080 to 2080ti territory

 

Based on the RX 6800 (60 CUs and 14TFLOPS), which seems to be quite a bit better than the 2080 Ti/3070 from these figures ( 1 2), the XSX's RDNA2-based GPU (52 CUs and 12TFLOPS) would seem to be around 3070/2080 Ti level. That would make the slightly weaker PS5 GPU (10.3 TFLOPS) around 2080 Super level.

 

Even though this new generation is very close to just being a PC (especially XBox Series S/X) they still have an ace up their sleeve which is a 100% consistent target so optimization is extremely less complicated. Combine that with all the storage advancements and it's going to be a great console generation vs PC. As usual PC will pull away down the road, but for the masses (not considering the extreme edge case of tweakers and overclockers) these consoles will burn brightly for years to come.

 

Yeah see this post:

Still very impressive performance from a console though, so they should last quite a while. They're on par with an upper mid range gaming PC which should push gaming PCs to be better as well. There are exciting times ahead of us for both consoles and PC.

The significant similarities between this generation of consoles and PCs makes me wonder if they'll just merge together in the future. Then everyone becomes a PC gamer .

 

This gen of consoles is the sweetest spot on performance/$ at this moment. You get new mint hardware, a Zen 2 8 core CPU, a 2080S kinda GPU, ultra fast SSD, colling system, power supply, WiFi, PS5/XBX conroller, warranty, .. all for $500. Being realistic you can't build such a powerful PC for $500. People still buying a second hand 2080S for $600 on eBay, lol

 

Yeah the value is really good on these new consoles. The prices on high end PC hardware have always been ridiculous, which is why midrange parts are really the only ones worth buying.

I still like PC more of course, but I like the improvements consoles are getting as well. Everyone wins when tech improves.

 

Part of me wishes the consoles weren't so good, haha... because now I'm stuck with decision fatigue: buy an eGPU for my laptop, buy an XSX, or build a desktop? My original plan was to build a desktop this GPU generation and stick a 3070 or 6800 in it, but I'm finding it very difficult to justify spending ~$1500 on a gaming rig when the XSX offers almost the same level of performance for $500. (Not to mention features, like Auto HDR for SDR content, that PCs don't have.) Which is why I'm now seriously considering an XSX, or spending $800 on an eGPU that I can upgrade and keep using my PC library with (though I'll be stuck with my laptop's Skylake CPU). It's a lot to mull over.

First world problem, I know.

 

If that extra "GPU power" that you are looking for is just for gaming purpose than IMO for the very first time a console is the smart choice. In the past PC had the advantage in raw power which translates in to more fps, but today that advantage has narrowed to a slim margin in the fps count but the price difference has widen enough at the point that PC can't compete for that price range and I'd say PC can't compete even at double the price. As for eGPU, for $800 you could probably get at max a RTX 3070 + enclosure, then you have to assume a 10-20% loss in performance because the TB3 overhead, and then you're going to be bottlenecked by your CPU and RAMs, so at the end you'll be expending more money on a eGPU solution and having worse performance compared to a XSX, not to mention that this gen of consoles will optimize games for 8+ cores CPUs.

As for games, you can also get MS game pass for $10 at month and you'll have 100+ games and those are not crappy games, those are AAA games. XSX is so good this gen that I bet MS is losing money in the production of those machines, there is no way you can get all that nice hardware for $500 and still have a good profit.

 

iv'e been pc gaming for 15 years and might buy and keep the xsx..

your right the deal is too good to pass off on if you enjoy gaming

 

I've heard every console generation that Microsoft looses money on their consoles, and it's probably true. You can't build a PC with the same processing power of this generation of consoles for $500 for sure.

Now I really wish Nvidia and AMD would lower their GPU prices. The prices are ridiculously high even for the mid range GPUs. Nvidia jacked up the prices on purpose, so shame on them. They need to start eating costs themselves.

 

For me laptop pc gaming is ideal bc it's an all in one thing, I can use it for so many other purposes than just gaming, less bulk and take it with you it's really great. But I'm not an ultra settings player nor more than 1080p/~60 atm. PC's give you so many more options and flexibility as well, you're not trapped into the consoles walled garden. Hopefully Linux will one day be as convenient for gaming,cad etc as window$. Let the tech mature and by the time you upgrade it's amazing and not the very high prices that early adopters pay. Better price/perf. One thing I hate though is the trend of soldered on cpu/gpu in laptops now, mxm was awesome and some units had even cpu replacement, not now for the most part. This console upgrade is good news for laptop gamers as it will push up the specs in the all in one stand alone package segment.

It's amazing to me that you can get the same mid-range gaming settings on modern games for half the wattage ie 980m=100w=1650=50w etc. Now with all the cross system top games too it's great. I could see a console and a mid range laptop for daily use being better than a dedicated desktop gaming pc. I don't like the bulk, non-portability etc of desktops. It's like those huge heavy behemoth TV's vs the thin and light stuff of today, awesome.

 

As stated above I would submit that no matter how you slice it you're not going to take a console on the plane, pull it out, pull out the monitor, hook everything up, start whiling away a few hours. I have a dedicated HT, flight sim rig, both current consoles, gaming laptop, and laptop for travel in places where you might get killed for your gaming laptop laptop. They all have their place. I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone is saying here, in fact I agree pretty much across the board. I do think that consoles of this gen or any previous gen are not mobile in the way that laptops are and that is a key use case for me. Right now I'm running an Aorus X7 DT and the thing can game at 2k with decent frame rates and most everything turned up and on, if not just flat on and maxed depending on the game. All in with the paraphernalia I need for a good gaming experience it's only 7 lbs and a little change. Video looks good and most importantly, I can get work done. Consoles have never given me that but laptops have always done so although I would opine that early gaming laptops were downright tragic in terms of gaming performance. Where I'm headed here is that this generation of console is not a game changer to me, it's just an adjustment of relative bang for buck in one use case I have and I view them that way when considering my upgrade path across all devices. I'll probably buy both after the market settles down simply because I'm old and I can afford some toys but I don't feel any big need to get on board.

 

You're not doing that with a gaming laptop on a plane either, at least not if you want to play for more than 45-60 minutes.

 

lol yeah 4 hours of gaming is pretty unlikely...also shouldn't people maybe take a break vs treating it like an essential like oxygen

 

Well every person has different needs. In my case I don't go in to a plane more than twice a year, so, mobility is not a "must" for me, that's why I went with desktop replacement to start with. The fact is consoles has the best performance/price ratio (performance measured in fps and price in USD) that's something that nobody can argue against. Then of course you may prefer a PC or a laptop but that would rely on more subjective parameters. PC/Gamer laptops need to drop price if they want to be competitive, I'd rather invest in a 4k-120Hz smart TV + console rather than an expensive gamer laptop (today). The smart TV will be usable for 15+ years, and the gamer laptop will not allow me to play at high frame rates for more than 5 years, and after 5 years the price of the laptop will drop to zero.

 

Actually I do, I simply plug in. When not possible I also use the travel laptop which can go for a few hours while playing the old games it's capable of playing. No, the provided AC outlets will not keep up with the draw while gaming, you're on a time limit that depends on the available power but still ahead of the gaming you didn't do on the console you don't have on that aircraft. Along the way I use the same in various lounges most of which I can access. You don't see any consoles in them but you do see a lot of laptops. But before we go further let me state again, I wasn't disagreeing with any points made and in fact stated I agreed across the board for those points which had been made, you folks did read that part, right? I get the value proposition; the math isn't complicated. I have been on various gaming systems since they became a thing and I do mean going all the way back to playing pong when I was a kid; I fully understand the possible upgrade paths and what an upgrade at any point during the various hardware cycles means in terms of both cost and the quality of the gaming I'm going to get over time.My statement is that a console cant replace a laptop at any price for some owners and it is not the key tool in some gaming toolboxs. I said, and I quote, "not a game changer --> TO ME <-- it's just an adjustment of relative bang for the buck in one use case." ------------->TO ME <-------------- lol Speaking of me those virtual drinks will be on me, sorry if I didn't go far enough toward showing I was stating a personal opinion based on my own needs and uses. I wasn't expecting agreement, trying to change minds, or thinking that my use case is universal. I was only stating that consoles don't constitute an answer to all users. I cant just say, I'll take the console and skip a new gaming laptop or flight sim rig. Not going to work, I'll need both in the near term.

 

I tend to think you could game with a gaming laptop for more than 5 years if you're realistic about settings. I mean if you get something that maxes 1080p 60fps+ and are content with that, how bad are games going to get? I could see ray tracing and other new tech changing that but the laptop may not even have that capability anyways like gtx. Depending on how much you play the heat may wear it out by then though. Seems pretty ridiculous to get a 2070+ with a 1080p screen other than high hz/fps play, the vast majority of gaming laptop screens are still 1080p 120hz or less. It would be pretty crazy to take a gaming laptop and play on an airplane, those fans would be pretty annoying if I was sitting next to you and the heat would be even worse.

 

haha nice..yeah who the heck

 

Unless you fly business/first class.

 

Oh sorry I'm just a pleb had no idea, your majesty

 

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Conversation doesn't really have anywhere to go when you assume a person is rude, stupid, and without common sense up front. Reading my post would not for a second make me think someone in coach is pulling out his 17" gaming laptop, opening it up to something like 45 degrees before the screen hits the seat back in front, pulling up a game, sticking his head over into the lap of the person sitting next to him to be able to see the screen, then what, using their leg as a mouse table, I suppose in this scenario having got this far you then proceed to play a game for a half hour with the fans screaming until the battery dies. Does anyone believe someone did that, ever? Just to reiterate one last time. I said consoles cannot replace a gaming laptop for SOME people regardless of cost or power. This is a true statement. I didn't say it to be argumentative, my upgrade strategy has to make sense across all my devices, in my use, and meet my needs. The same is true for all of us. For informational purposes I don't fly coach unless there is no other alternative; there is very seldom anyone sitting next to me on a flight because nowadays you've usually got dividers. I also don't play anything that is going to ramp up my fans (which I have full control over) because high up games dont fly well. Something like Age of Empires 2 is an example of an ideal flight game. Not the genre, just something that is easy to mouse or can even be done with the pad, that is easy to jump in and out of, and that doesn't consume massive battery.

 

we know what your saying and agree but who pulls out a gaming laptop on a flight

 

Take flights that run 8, 10, 12, 15 hours,you're in a place where you actually can; trust me, the list is long and includes you.

 

So it's common sense to use a laptop on a flight?
So it's rude to have a alternative opinion?
So it makes one stupid to disagree with an assumption?

JUST LOL comon back on topic I think it's really exciting seeing new gaming laptops competing with the next gen consoles and that my dude is how a conversation gets started...

 

your on to something, but wouldn't it make more sense to play games on a cell phone vs a big gaming laptop or heck even a tablet or ultrabook. I have taken many flights and seen tablets at best being used bro....its not impossible to use a laptop just unlikely as you would have no where to put your mouse....but you mentioned age of empires so rep

 

Not to beat a dead dog but I could see it if you have your own little cubby/area. I was just thinking of the classic airline seating arrangement. I'm not a plane travel warrior at all. I'd just take a sleeping pill or read or watch movies though lol Low impact gaming makes sense.

 

This is pretty much where my thinking is at this point. Next gen consoles, especially the XSX, offer the best price-to-performance ratio and solid performance generally - and at the high end of the GPU market, you get diminishing returns anyway when trying to squeeze out every last ounce of graphical juice. I, too, suspect a more effective investment to improve visual fidelity is to buy a better display and pair it with a next-gen console rather than building a PC or buying a high-end gaming laptop. I just bought an LG CX display and love it, and I'm 90% sure I'm going to pair it with an XSX, and my old gaming laptop, rather than investing in a new PC rig.

 

My dude if flying around is a big part of your life, you need a Nintendo Switch a PSP or something more mobile than a laptop

 

lol you guys rock....super funny convo

hahha pulling out a 18 pound titan laptop ....lol nothing to see here

man thats funny...

I think im done with pc gaming as the only option...im getting a xsx and a cx for 2000 vs a 3000 series laptop.

 

I agree here, I don't watch that many movies (too much gaming, podcasts, youtube and other stuff) anymore and plane rides are where I catch up on some movies. I can usually jam 3 movies into a flight to the west coast on the way there and at least 2 on the way back.. if they are short enough movies I can sometimes jam three of them into the return flight. The worst is when I miss out on like the last 5-15 minutes of a movie because it didn't end before we got to the gate lol. I still have only seen half of The Arrival due to not getting far enough through it fast enough on a flight lol.

 

I've pulled my Ranger out on every flight I've been on since I've had it and used it for gaming. I do get weird looks but don't care because I'm a hardcore PC gamer . PC for the win man!

It actually isn't that uncomfortable to use a 17 inch laptop on the tray in front of you. There's definitely enough space, although I will admit it feels cramped. I deal with it though because I'm willing to put up with it. It helps that my parents are always the people next to me, and nobody hears the fans anyway because of the roar from the jet engines.

How exactly did we get to arguing about what system to use while gaming on flights? This thread has taken a strange turn. I say use whatever you like most. For me, that's always going to be a DTR. I suppose you could compare me to a snail . I love caryring all my stuff around with me.

 

Haha...yeah nice..this thread got derailed pretty bad...I personally used my cell on a plane and fly coach so a laptop is out of the question but yeah if your a hardcore gamer all the more power to ya

 

I've been doing a lot of research into the pros/cons of buying a console vs building a desktop vs getting an eGPU. I've really had my heart set on building a desktop for over a year now. But after much research, and some internal back and forth, I've become convinced that a new gaming PC is a poor investment right now (at least for me). Even the PC gaming media seems to have determined its "initial verdict" on next gen performance: buy a new console rather than a new PC rig. The consensus seems to be that the Xbox Series X is roughly on par with a 2080/2080S, or in other words, a little less powerful than a 3070 or 6800. Which is good enough for me - especially given the massive cost savings of buying a console. It's a bummer to not be able to migrate a PC games library to a console, but it's not like my gaming laptop is going anywhere, and it's not any different than upgrading to a console that doesn't offer backwards compatibility (which was the norm anyway not that long ago).

In case anyone finds them useful, here are some articles that helped me make up my mind. The last one listed below, "Can you build a PS5 or Xbox Series X PC for $800?," was especially instructive.

Xbox Series X vs. gaming PCs: Fight! - https://www.pcworld.com/article/3596551/microsoft-xbox-series-x-vs-gaming-pcs-comparison.html

How the Xbox Series X (and xCloud) saved me from buying a gaming PC - https://www.pcworld.com/article/358...-xcloud-saved-me-from-buying-a-gaming-pc.html

Console or PC? This fall, the choice is simple - https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2020/11/5/21551308/should-i-buy-xbox-ps5-or-pc

Can you build a PS5 or Xbox Series X PC for $800? - https://www.pcworld.com/article/3591584/can-you-build-a-ps5-or-xbox-series-x-pc-for-800.html

 

thanks for that yeah I came to the same conclusion......not much to see here xbox series x cannot be beat pc wise....your a pretty dumb guy picking pc over the new consoles if it sits


edit ill add.....but if a game like crysis comes out again it will be a game changer...game of the year 10 years ahead of its time

 

It really depends on the flight, seating, whether you are the kind that can sleep on a plane, the amount of ching you're willing to throw at a problem, and personal preference. Speaking for myself I'm not even going to pull out the travel laptop on a short flight. Get going three or four hours now I'm likely to get into work, a video, a game, surfing the internet, something, and the laptop I use will depend on where I'm sitting. As I said in the first post my gaming laptop is an Aorus X7 DT, the whole shebang, laptop, cord, power supply, and mouse only weigh 7 lbs and a little change. It's literally less than an inch thick including the lid. It still has a big footprint being a 17" lappie but it's nothing like the old days with a DTR. I used to carry those with me too but never took them out on a flight. As an example I had a Sager that wouldn't even last 15 minutes on battery and back then few flights had AC making it pretty much useless in terms of operation off the leash. On the other hand I travel a lot for both work and play so I need something when I get where ever "there" is and back then I needed the power a DTR gave you. Nowadays ordinary computers can handle work pretty well but that's a relatively new thing for me. In any event on overseas flights I'm thinking there is almost no one here who wouldn't pull out their gaming laptop assuming they had one on a very long flight when sitting in business. You're sequestered into your own space divided off from others and you have a LOT of time to kill. Few flights go that 15 hour range but a whole bunch go 10 to 12. It's a lot of time to be twiddling your thumbs.

How this got started is that there was a feeling in the thread of proclaiming consoles to be better than PC of whatever variety due to the price/performance proposition but value is always relative to both need and wealth. I was pointing out that it isn't a question of choosing either a console or a gaming rig based on power versus cost for some of us, the console has to fit into all our devices and it isn't purchased in a vacuum. Of course you have to consider pixel pushing per dollar but also if they're the pixels you want to push and where you want them to get pushed. I'm primarily a flight simmer when the choice is availabel and have the latest greatest at home which is already more powerful than the latest consoles, more power is more power no matter what you pay for it. Meanwhile VR still kicks that PCs buttocks and the consoles could only offer worse if DCS were available on console. So exactly how much value does a gaming system have when I don't use it and it cant do what I want it to do in the first place?

I'd guess for those that have to choose one or the other the majority would probably be better off with the new consoles compared to investing in a PC if you're answering the question, Where should I throw 500 max at my home gaming?" What if that isn't the question?

 

it is the question!!

we have 500 and the xbox series x cannot be beat its not up to opinion at this point.

ill put it this way how many times do you move from a desk to the couch and unplug...I personally have always used my gaming laptops on a desk and they have remained stationary....never moving...aka console like placement

 

It isn't the question, the only question you asked in the OP was, and I quote, "So what does this mean for PC gamers." That is where you went wrong, if what you posted now was the question the answer would be a tentative yes. I say tentative because it looks like you're going to be able to play most everything available in XBOX land on the PC so you have to ask whether maybe the PS5 is a better choice if you already have a decent gaming laptop or desktop and only the said 500 dollars. And BTW, yeah, I used my smaller laptop all over the place and quite often unplugged while gaming. I also move the bigger laptop around a little bit but time is short without an outlet so it's almost invariably plugged in while gaming.

 

Another perspective: sometimes just having the option to do something is better than actually utilizing it.

Case in point: I usually use my laptop on my desk in my room, but it's very quick to set up if I go to a friend's house or when I go to school. This would be a huge pain in the butt with a desktop. As for consoles, arguably the setup time is also quick, but a laptop is more convenient as your entire setup is integrated into one seamless ultraportable package.

In terms of performance per dollar, consoles usually win. In terms of value, that's subjective. For me, a PC will always be better because I'm a power user and hardcore PC gamer, so PC is my preference. As I said earlier though, everyone should use what suits their use case and preferences best. A PC would not be ideal for one of my best buddies since she's into handhelds, so a Switch would be good for her. Another buddy of mine is a general user, but still loves video games so a console would be good for him.

In the end, everybody wins when technology improves. Game on your platform of preference and be happy.

 

I feel exactly the same about the desktop moving around issue, if you move around or want an all in one pc, that's why I love the flexibility of powerful laptops, for general use you don't even need that powerful or expensive of a laptop and usb devices for all sorts of uses like backup and even installing games on external drives is even better. Casual gaming only on the couch at home is going to be consoles, with the Switch the exception but that's not really comparable for eye candy settings. I still have my old 3ds with a couple games for on the go gaming. I have 3 laptops, one dedicated gaming mostly with a large screen, one 15.6" for general use and my old netbook for just browsing or quick trip like one night. Galaxy Tab S3 7" as an e-reader only. I still have a galaxy s5 so obviously I'm no phone gamer or heavy user.

 

The different platforms, for me, are mostly about the exclusive games. PC gets enough of them that I'm satisfied with it. I would like to try out games like Bloodborne and the new God of War, but I just don't have really an opportunity at all to monopolize the TV with a console so PC is where it's at for me. Performance wise they are all good enough. Even the OG XB1 is still fine as long as it's a good game. Not going to let that stop me from upgrading, I like graphics well enough just like most people.

To get back on topic, is this bout next gen console performance? Seems fine. Devs will code for the platform's strengths and try to steer clear of it's limitations, which out of the gate are pretty much mid to high end PC level gameplay. PCs are already there if you can spend the $$. But just like always you can turn down options to get a playable experience. The game will look and play as good as what you're willing to put up with or willing to spend. Just like it's always been.

 

As I said before I've been actively looking for good deals on eBay auctions for GPUs and people are still paying $550-600 for a RTX 2080S, and that blows my mind and irritates me .... how is that even possible?.. I wouldn't pay more than $300-350 for that video card. I mean if you have already a PC, just buy a fliping PS5/XBX for $500 sit it next to your PC and plug it to the LCD of your PC to play games, you get an extra controller, a faster SSD, new hardware, warranty, and the same or even better performance than the 2080S.... specially since consoles use the same tech Smart Access Memory from AMD (or pretty similar).

I really mean this, PC hardware needs to get cheaper otherwise consoles will flipping destroy the whole PC game industry. The RTX 3070 at $500 is a nice attempt from Nvidia, but that one only works if you already own a capable CPU, PSU, MB, RAMs, etc...

 

Yeah, people still charge and pay 200+$ for mxm cards that are way outdated or pay top dollar for 1050ti mobile laptops which are below 980m/70m performance it's just lack of knowledge. Strange how old pc parts actually go up in price because of "scarcity" even though they can be replaced with new stuff same or less priced. Still I think everyone here has the hobby of working on their computers, not much room for that with consoles. Being trapped into the console makers walled garden I don't like either, it's much easier to get games on sale for pc then console imo.

 

That's generally how I feel too, though at this point, with Microsoft bringing their games over to PC, it's mostly a question of getting a PC or Xbox Series X and missing out on PS5 and Switch exclusives. At least in terms of AAA games, there aren't any that are "PC exclusive" these days, though obviously some are console exclusive. Nintendo is still king when it comes to exclusives, and I already have a Switch for that very purpose. IMO the extra power and PC features of Xbox Series X makes it a better choice than a PS5, even with PS5 exclusives, but no doubt views will differ.

I agree, but so long as consumers are content buying expensive GPUs (and they clearly are, with the Nvidia and AMD cards flying off the shelves faster than they can be stocked), I don't see prices coming down. Unfortunately. It seems that PC gamers, on the whole, are accepting of paying ridiculously higher prices than what consoles offer.

True, although I feel that as notebook gamers, our ability to tinker with our computers is not too greatly different from console owners at this point. Like console gamers, just about the only meaningful hardware we can upgrade these days is storage. RAM too I suppose, but that's not really something to write home about. We do get more ability to tinker with software features, though even there, the gap between consoles and PCs is closing. But yes, Steam and Epic sales are probably not going to be beat anytime soon (although with GamePass, even those sales are less attractive).

 

For me the exclusives are more about the games that just don't make it to consoles at all or modding opportunities. Quite a few indie games that take huge risks or are small enough that can't get the funding or budget to think about making it to consoles are in that camp. Also some games that just don't work well on consoles. Stuff like 4X strategy. I know games like Divinity: Original Sin are on console, but the experience of playing a game like that is just better on PC. Stuff like Assassin's Creed or even Skyrim work well enough with a controller that either platform is fine there, though the modding community for Skyrim is better on PC.