The last TF2 Patch is a horror. Major Nerf.

I really admire Valve's eagerness to try and balance and add new contents to TF2. It is one game I really enjoy alot, but some of the recent updates, had made me wonder if they are really doing any good to the game. Feb 28 08 update is a perfect example.

Thing I believe is overly done: In Bond
Thing I believe is well done: Italic, underlined

The rest that's not in bold or italic, I classified them as commom component of a "patch", not worth mentioning about. What are you guy's opinion on this major nerf done on Demoman and solider? imo: they should just lower the critical rates for both slightly instead of removing all of their ammos, now pyros, heavy, and especially scouts (who can dodge very well) will have an upper hand.

 

I quit playing tf2 a while ago but didn't they change that any weapon pickup gives you full ammo back?

 

I really don't mind the fct that steam allowed custom games to get rid of respawn times. One of the servers I frequent actually has no respawn time and 32 players, and its a blast.

This is the only thing on the list that really annoys me. Soldier is my favorite class, and when I'm on offense I always get down to my last rocket. A reduction of 20 rockets might force me to find a new favorite class (apparently not Demoman cause it looked like Valve really messed up that class also)

Edit: The more I think about it, I dunno if I'm gonna be able to go back to TF2. I was really looking forward to playing it tomorrow on my day off, but the thought of only having 16 rockets is annoying the hell out of me. I guess I'll fire up a server and see if I can live with it

 

I always hated all the rocket spamming soldiers, this is sure to make TF2 a better game.

 

Team Fortress Classic had no respawn times by default, and the game rocked. I don't see that as a bad thing at all.

TF is not Counterstrike. It's *supposed* to be fast paced, and if you die, you're just supposed to get back on your spot as soon as possible. Besides, how can it be a bad thing that they added the *option* for this?

As for the ammo, it seems pretty obvious they want engineers to play a greater role by resupplying people's ammo.

 

The respawn time is something that adds a bit of strategy to the games, I hope that the servers I play don't use this option. Maps like dustbowl will be harder to attacking team with respawn times disabled.

 

The rocket launcher is, by far, the most powerful weapon in the game. It still is since all they did was lower the reserve ammo.

Also, I don't see why you bolded "Dramatic reduction in teleporters needed".

 

It doesn't "add" strategy, it just *changes* the strategy a bit. No respawn time makes the game more team-oriented. There's less incentive for individual players to stay alive at the cost of their team.
And yes, in some cases it puts the attacking team at a slight disadvantage. Do you think that's accidental? It wouldn't be much fun if the two sides were even. That's why you switch sides halfway through. Attackers are *supposed* to have a hard time.

 

If you didn't see these nerfs coming then you really haven't played TF2, rocket launcher is one of the best weapons in game and demoman's bomb spam that you see in every server is nicely reduced.

 

This actually made me a lil happier about TF2.

Rocket spamming was a little out of hand on some servers.

Like 6 guys would sit in a corner and shoot their unending supply of rockets.

And dont get me started with demomen.

 

FYI, the bold and italics are my opinion on the subject, you are free to express your opinion, just don't bash me for my. I do welcome and encourage discussion on why I bold and italic some of them thou.

I can see how your approach on this. But TFC and TF2 are two different games (given it is with the same concept), damages, abilities, maps and to a certain degree the objective. Having no respond time propose a bigger challenge than it already was for the attacking team, especially if the defense team is already well coordinated before the option to remove the timer was made available.

I do agree with your idea that they want the engineer's dispenser to play a bigger role. before the dispenser was nothing more than a healing station if a medic is not readily available.

I consider counterstrike to be fast paced, reaction time wise, I can't rest or relax when I play CS, I will die relatively fast. While playing TF2, I can stop and plan my next move, and well overall live longer and more kills/life.

Well, i was expecting nerf to be done on demoman and soliders, but not in a sense to reduce their ammo reserve by almost half. In my opinion a much better approach would be to decrease the critical rate and maybe firing speed of these weapons by slight amount rather than what they had done. Because on a map with enough dispenser or ammo packs, the two classes can still spam just as well as they did before, especially the fact that only Newb players spams the rocket, without aiming, and they could careless if they run out of ammo in middle of their rocket spree, they just die and respawn (now can be done EDIT: instantly).

Well, the point of patch is to balance the classes, why they reduced the teleporters needs I have no idea, just thought I put it in bold just for the heck of it.

Finally, I don't play soldiers or demoman all that much, more demoman if i play either of them at all. I just thought valve could of taken a better approach towards the balancing aspect of the game. I suspect that they are doing this, because of some of the new abilities and weapons they had promised a while ago. It is a matter of time before they release them.

 

They have their differences, sure, but TF2 *is* a sequel to TFC. And several of the maps are the same (TFC has Dustbowl too, like someone mentioned in this thread as an example of how terrible no respawn time would be)
My point is simply that Team Fortress *anything* is, at its core, a team game. In a team game, there's not the same need for big death penalties. Every *second* you spend moving back to your post is a second wasted for your team. Even with instant respawn, you're still losing a lot of time simply on running from the respawn point back to where you were. In that time, your team is crippled.

That's funny, I'd say TF is *at least* as fast-paced as CS. Maybe not in terms of reaction time, but in overall gameplay definitely. In CS you *have* to take your time, enter doors carefully, stay in cover and all that. You have to avoid getting hit.

In TF, sometimes you just have to run for it. Sometimes you just have to stand up and fire away to stop the guy stealing your flag. Even if it kills you. And when you die in TF... tough luck, you just have to rush back onto the map. In CS you at least get a break until the next round.

Well, it has two effects, doesn't it?
- Makes engineers and their dispensers much more valuable, promoting teamplay
- Forces soldiers to switch to their secondary weapon from time to time.

And that's just it. A soldier with no rockets isn't useless. He still has a decent secondary weapon, he can still be useful. So overall it *does* just lower his damage.

 

Right, the game is team play oriented, and I enjoy it. In fact it is one reason I quit CS to play TF2, because the team in Team fortress 2. In cs all people think about is their kills. However, on dustbowl, where the red team is spawn is next to the point, it really makes it harder for the blue team to penetrate that defense.

Point taken.
*in TF2 it has a time based break, that's what the respawn timer *was* for.. not anymore if the server decides removes it.

Agreed with both points, but as you mentioned "Every *second* you spend moving back to your post is a second wasted for your team". I hope it doesn't end up crippling the team aspect of the class. Finally, one thing I really want to see as a result of this update is preventing from a whole team from being soldiers, because that is just ridiculously insane.

EDIT: oh yeah, what about demoman who's got both of his weapons ammo reduced? I guess now he has to love his engie on the team more than anything. xD

 

That is a good point. One of the things they need to do with the Soldier is make him do more splash damage to himself when firing rockets near him. It's difficult enough getting near a Soldier without getting a rocket to the face, which essentially insta-gibs you like a Spy backstab if you're not the right class.

Looking at the patch notes again:
Added protection against voice command spamming. Dramatic reduction in teleporters needed.

That's actually all one line. The second part - dramatic reduction in teleporters needed - is actually a joke on their part, commenting on how everyone would always voice spam "NEED A TELEPORTER HERE!" or "PUT TELEPORTER HERE!"

 

wtf nerf lol?

 

Yeah playing as soldier and demoman is kind of a pain now...I mean when you're trying to defend/take the final CP and you have no ammo sucks...still played for about 3hrs though...