The unlucky 99%

I have read most of the very informative articles written by a host of our didactic friends here at N_B_R on the subject of graphic card upgrades, as well as at many other sites and I've known for some time that I'm one of the 99% of laptop owners who can not benefit from MXM technology. But still I have had questions that I feel need to be answered, and to quote a previous employer; Your better asking a stupid question than making a stupid mistake! So I'm letting this one fly your way.


1. What happens when my graphic card die's? Will I need to buy a new mobo just because I have fried my graphic's card?
2. If indeed I can get just a replacement card, that would mean the fried card would need to be unsolder before the new one is re soldered back onto the mobo, wouldn't it?
3. If I can get a replacement why can't the same procedure be used to preform an upgrade?

Any answers to any of these question will be greatly appreciated
Cheers HerEsY

 

Your mobo would have to be replaced. It would be impossible to replace the GPU, that is work that must be done by precision machinery. This is one of the reasons why you couldn't upgrade like this. Another is that the rest of the system is built for your specific GPU, they are not necessarily interchangable.

 

1.) If it dies you might not have to replace the motherboard. Some manufactures have proprietary pci-e slots for their GPUs. If your laptop has a slot like this than no, you don't have to replace the mobo to replace the GPU. If it is soldered on though you will most likely have to replace the mother board.

2.) The solder there was put there by a highly accurate machine, any little slip in this cramped, no room for error environment and the motherboard is done for. I wouldn't trust a human with this task.

3.) Each notebook has a GPU specifically designed to fit into that particular notebook. It has a unique shape and layout that won't fit into another notebook. Also the heat requirements are taken into account during design. The heat pipes, fan, and chassis are all designed for a specific temperature range and going outside of that range (like upgrading a GPU will do) can and will most likely fry your computer.

Its not just one factor preventing people from upgrading their GPUs its several, if it was easy a lot of people would do it. So when everyone says you're generally stuck with what you bought, they're right.

 

So your saying there isn't a single computer technician alive who could perform such a procedure and rig up a mod graphic upgrade. This sounds like a good one for MythBusters!

 

That would be an incredibly dull episode for the lucky 99% who are blissfully unaware of graphic card upgrades (the impossibility thereof).

 

I'd watch it. I've always wondered if the difficulty was overrated. Sure, it sounds hard, but knowing exactly what to do, and after a few practice runs, and having access to a mobile gpu encyclopedia, could make it more than possible.

 

Sorry but I find it improbable to be impossible, it's probably just uneconomical and impractical because of the hardware and labour cost involved e.g. the cost of such a procedure is probably more than the difference in cost of selling your current laptop and buying a new one. Unless you had the skills needed to perform such a task, then that would reduce cost dramatically!

 

ax0r ur notebook and get an OCZ Whitebook

 

Theoretically, you are right. If the GPU had died you could desolder all 250+ contacts on that 1 square inch area and solder in the new ones, but this would of course have to be contact soldering and you'd have to do it perfectly. There are people who can do this but it would take hours, and they have special training and tools which is why machines do tasks like this today.

An upgrade is not possible because of the physics of electronics. It'd be like saying you should be able to desolder the Socket 478 socket on your motherboard, solder in a Socket 775, and then use a socket 775 processor. They're simply NOT LIKE, and no, not a person in the world could do this. The entire motherboard would have to be re-engineered, to the point it wouldn't be the same motherboard anymore. Making it impossible.

 

You may or may not have to replace your motherboard if your GPU dies. Some manufactures use slots which allow the graphics card to be removed but you cannot normally upgrade beyond what is offered with the machine.

I am certain it is possible to mod a laptop so that it can use a better graphics card, but it would be neither wallet nor warranty-friendly.

 

Everyone keeps mentioning MXM even though he specifically excluded MXM in his original question. Why?

And no, again, it is not possible. There are some MXM cards that won't work in certain MXM systems, and that's already got all the contacts there. There is more to it than just wiring everything to be one-to-one

 

I'm trained. I have removed 368 pin BGA's and successfully refitted them. Takes about 3-4hrs of very carefull work using a special preheat mini oven that costs about £7000. Then you would need a solder paste screen that would cost you about £200. And after you've forked out for that, you need a lot of luck. BGA replacement is a very specialist job.
In general, machines do not replace surface mount IC's. People use tools to do so. BGA's are fitted to the PCB at the point of manufacture by placing them on solder paste and reflowing the PCB through an oven that has a carefully set up temperature profile to gently heat the solder until it melts evenly and the BGA can float into position.
I would not want to risk destroying a notebook motherboard even if the GPU was suspected of being dead. Which is what can, and does, happen when it goes slightly wrong removing the IC.

 

Well, I think andy is agreeing with me here, even if I am wrong about the *exact* process used to mount ICs.

 

Yep. Although it is possible to replace a GPU IC for one of the same type (although very difficult). There really is no way you could upgrade it to a different, better one. The PCB has been designed to accomodate one specific IC, you change it for another and you change the way the rest of the board deals with it. MXM slots were first designed to allow such changes, but there is rarely a notebook that has true upgradeable graphics cards. Only if a manufacturer has allowed for it in the original design would it be possible.

 

should it be unlucky 1%

 

Even though I may come off as ignorant, I feel I have to put this to you because it just doesn't make sense, I have a laptop with the spec's you see below (Santa Rosa), now we know that the newer generation Penryn can be accommodated in the same mobo because it uses the same chipset 965PM.

That would probably mean all the newer HP dv and alike series that accommodated the Penryn with the same PM965 chipset and have a better graphic accelerator Nvidia 9 series are basically using the same mobo the Qanata 30CB or a similar version, wouldn't that mean such a mod must have a possibility because the architecture of the mobo seem to be inter- generational and/or simular. It's not like you'd be trying to put the latest graphic accelerator on a 5 year old laptop, or am I being too simplistic?

I'm still thinking that it's probably to difficult of a procedure because of the time involved, plus the added cost of hardware to be worth while trying, but I still can't see it being impossible.

If I'm wrong, I'd just like to say; it's not the first nor will it be the last time!

 

You are being too simplistic. Even same generation GPUs are not the same.

 

Nothing is impossible, it's all a matter of economics, time, and technology. In order to perform this electronic surgery would take tons of time and cost dozens of times more than just getting a replacement motherboard or whole new laptop.

And it's not a matter of luck, it's what you decide to buy. If you want upgradeability, then buy a notebook PC with an upgradable GPU.

 

The investments you're going to make in upgrading, why not just sell your old notebook and buy one with an MXM-slot. i.e. MXM-Clevos, Acers are cheap and have MXM-slots.

 

I titled my post the unlucky 99% to show I have done the reading needed to understand what's going on here.

Could you say, that for the many who are first time laptop owners and were ignorant to that fact that GPU's are generally not upgradeable, that's unlucky?

I don't really believe it's bad luck, because if you picked a laptop that wasn't upgradeable when 99% are upgradeable, yes that would be bad luck, but I feel we really don't have much of a choice. Because of the underhanded practices by laptop manufactures to force the public to buy new rather than to upgrade.

Oil companies and laptop manufactures, there doesn't seem to be much between them that I can see from here, they're both on the nose!
.

 

I certainly won't say that 99% are upgradeable.

About 50% notebooks out there have replaceable GPUs (Dedicated).

About 99% notebooks have non-upgradeable GPUs. (BIOS support ?)

 

Gez some here have a hard time comprehending what I post.

I didn't say 99% were upgradeable.

I said
"if you picked a laptop that wasn't upgradeable when 99% are upgradeable, yes that would be bad luck,"


Meaning that there's not that much of a choice so lucky really doesn't come into play here!
.

 

MXM doesnt even function how it was supposed to, look at the Asus C90S owners...

i would say 99.9% unlucky to tell you the truth.

although the external PCI E thing with AMD and Puma might abolish this sillyness.

 

Well even new notebook owners can research a little before they buy a notebook. For instance check benchmarks for each GPU, even a 12 year old can do that without too much of a hassle. Instead of taking a chance and just plunge the money into an laptop with an inferior GPU that barely can play games.

Now people of course wants to get away as cheap as they can, thereby their results in the notebook too. Cheap notebook = Cheap performance. Then you have gaming notebooks that isn´t that upgradable too. Sager´s/Clevos are.

Usually the notebooks are built for that GPU it comes with in terms of heat dissipation.

 

I am the "go to" man in my office and within family and friends that people ask before buying a new PC, notebook or desktop. Frequently many people ask what they can upgrade to extend the life of their purchase. I think that is a common question, and a good question.

If you blindly go out and buy a $1000+ PC without some basic knowledge then that's your issue. Yes, you may not have the right questions to ask because you don't know any better, but I would think upgradeability or "how long will it last me" should be top of mind.

 

I've known for some years that laptops have their limitations, even those that are upgradeable, unlike desktops where's you could upgrade until the cows come home.

When I bought this laptop it wasn't for the purposes of gaming rather computing; writing documents, doing my taxes, editing movies/ pictures, producing a budget, organizing my affairs, conversing with family and friends, surfing the net, downloading movies/ music and maybe playing games.

Personally I can't really understand why anyone would pay up to $4000+ for the privilege of playing games on any computer be it a mobile unit or not, when there are devices out there that can in many cases reproduce a better gaming experience for around $500, which is the price of many high-end G/cards, each to their own I guess.

Saying that I feel it's up to consumer to let the vendor know of our discontent with the underhanded methods used by them to squeeze every last cent they can out of us rather than letting us be able to upgrade if we feel to do so!

 

Well there are people who doesn´t want to have lots of cords laying around the floor or wherever they have them placed. A laptop doesn´t take up much space at all and is indeed mobile. That can´t be said about a desktop. Performance is of course better on a desktop, though not any cheap desktop that you could build or buy for $500 compared to an SLI 8800m GTX/9800m GT and up notebook. Funny thing is I benchmarked my SLI laptop against a guy with a single 4870 and beat that guy in performance when we compared games and recorded the framerates.

Now I have both an desktop and an notebook, actually I have three notebooks. Since moving around a desktop is a pain in the ***.

 

Device= XBox, portable and wireless.

 

Xbox 360 and even PS3 cannot even begin to compare in graphics to a high end desktop PC. Even a 800 dollar PC will give you better graphics. Not to mention a keyboard/mouse is so superior for gaming. I agree to an extent about buying 4000 dollar laptops, but that's also because I can't afford that. It's all based on how much you have and how much you have to burn.

 

A large part of the reason for non-upgradabale components is inherent in the design of any notebook: it's compact. If you added upgradeable componentry, it would add to the bulk and overall mass of the notebook.

You can buy notebooks with this option, and in most cases, they are indeed bigger and more expensive. So I don't think you'd want to add the increased, size, weight, and cost to every notebook PC so that less than 5% of owners can upgrade it.

 

First the difference in the graphic reproduction between a XBox and a high-end rigs is in the eye of the beholder in my opinion, if some a willing to pay up to 7 time as much to be able to see the leaves on the trees clearer, good on them.

I'm not wealthy but can afford a better rig than this, but can't see the value in it, as long as the games I want to play run smoothly and I'm competitive I'm good with that.

I have a desktop here that was bought some time ago for $800 Pentium D 3GHz 1GB ATI X1650 pro and dude I can't even play ETQW on it, I don't know why it runs like a pig, you'd think it could handle it , I play ETQW on my laptop effortlessly.

I do agree that the weight factor matters because this rig isn't as lite as I would of thought in transit, It's not heavy but I would of thought you wouldn't even know you're carrying it.

As for paying more for the upgradability, I'm in, because I can see the value of it and to use a terminology embraced by the computer industry it's "more bang for bucks".

Because of the speed in which technology is evolving a laptop you paid $3500 for 6 months ago has not only depreciated because it's not new, but because it's been superseded and probably will be several times in its life span, making it virtually worthless when you sell it to reinvest.

 

The Radeon X1650 is a very weak card... very. It's one of those naming tricks, like how an X700 is better than an X1550. Get a new video card and I'm sure it will run fine. And as I said, 800 dollar PC will trump an Xbox.

 

Because those $500 games consoles don't produce a better gaming experience.

QFT.

Then that's your call. It's a valid (and sensible) opinion that you're welcome to have but it's not shared by some people. There is a point to gaming machines, though the usefulness of a $4000 laptop is debatable.

 

yeah but you just paid quadruple to get "better image quality..cause the 360 can be had for $199 right now.

like the general said its your call.

 

I don't actually do it for image quality though, I do it because I like to play FPS online and IMO console FPS is a huge joke.

 

i guess, again, that is your opinion, cause I find FPS just fine on concoles, although I did enjoy COD4 on my laptop as well.