"True gaming laptops are finally becoming a reality"...

As a denizen of the NBR forums for years.....they weren't a reality before? LOL!

The article has some good points, I just found that lead in kinda funny.

Sauce: http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/9/10...razer-blade-stealth-core-ces-2016/in/10506095

 

Yeah, it's pretty lame. You can't even game while mobile, it's not a gaming laptop.

It's part of a gaming computer, the screen and CPU - and with Dual Core only, it's not gonna be powerful enough to keep a 970 and above busy - you will be giving up FPS compared to a 4 core CPU.

Certainly not enough CPU power to keep a Pascal GPU busy when it finally releases.

 

i dont get, 13" screen is also way to small for proper gaming. 15" inch form factor, slightly thicker to give room for an i7 quad and its cooling and you would indeed have a very interesting concept. It would still weigh less than 4 pounds be a sleek laptop but you would get a much more usable system..

mobile gaming is just not really possible. Drains the battery too fast and lowering power while on battery means less preformance.

 

That's because it's Razer. They go thin because that's what they do. Performance be damned. They'll throw in fancy keyboard lighting and make it thin as possible, but when it comes to thermal performance, they don't seem to give a rat.

 

I think the real problem here is that people want what defies the laws of physics.

"I need a 3 pound, 0.5" thick laptop with a mechanical keyboard and a 1440p 10-bit 240Hz 100% adobe RGB, 100% sRGB, 100% NTSC gamut screen and it needs to last 15 hours on battery and it needs to be able to play every game at ultra for the next 2 years and the max temp needs to be 40c otherwise that's way too hot!" - these article writers.

Spoiler: Rant book

The dude already listed his original problem with his first-bought laptop from 2003. He bought THE THINNEST GAMING NOTEBOOK HE COULD FIND. Then had problems with games and battery life and expected something different. He didn't do research, didn't even consider laws of physics, just decided that with enough money tossed at a machine, he could make the impossible a reality.

The same reason this will fail is the same reason I already listed way before to some person on reddit that these things will fail. Laptops need to be DESIGNED to handle ultrabook usage and an eGPU solution.

Maybe LPDDR4 with no optical drive, no mechanical storage and a low res, low refresh, low power screen and a non-ulv skylake chip set properly for battery usage might glean 6 hours reliably on battery, and then that kind of machine might handle an eGPU solution well. But Razer's stupid machine does not do this... it's an ULV CPU, and basically that makes it a slimmed down version of an Alienware 13 (with extra costs to boot).

And even if they did do it, the amount of expansion slots is awful. You add a mouse, take up one of the USB slots for the eGPU, add an external drive (maybe with some games on it), maybe use a USB headset, and you're done. If there's so many slots in the first place. The only laptop I've seen come close, and it's a machine I respect as much as I can respect it, is the GS30 from MSI. It was designed to use an eGPU solution for gaming and was designed to use iGPU from the start for everything else.

But really... the problem with these kinds of articles is that they set the stage of beliefs for everybody who is even considering a gaming laptop, and doesn't know anything. They google it, looking for articles, and find articles praising Razer or ASUS' big, thick machines, and NOTHING ELSE, and then they decide that they need something for $2000+, either big, thick and heavy, or superthin, hot, loud and weak, or superthin, hot, weak and designed for eGPUs (and none of the "hot, loud, weak, etc downsides being listed about the thin machines, mind you... Linus only bothered saying his Razer Blade thermal throttles when reviewing the P870DM, LONG after all those videos about his thin laptop were done), when the reality is far from that vision.

I wish people like him stop being allowed to publish such misleading articles. Especially since he has no idea what he's talking about, assuming that ultrabooks with CPUs weaker than the weakest desktop core i3 still for sale is going to become a monster gaming rig by adding a GPU.

 

Its gotten better than it used to be...

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/7147024/fs/7146928

The problem is that we just don't have batteries that can keep up with the demands of modern hardware. Battery technology has remained pretty much stagnant while everything else has grown exponentially.

 

i honestly think that the understanding of what "mobile gaming" means is broken.

 

Totally agree.. All the BGA junk has ruined the definition...

 

I tend to agree with you.

I hauled my M17xR1 to work every day so I could play WoW while dealing with customers. I didn't buy it so I could play games on the battery. At least now you can actual game with what amounts to an approximate 30FPS cap... My M17xR1 was unbearable with its 260M GTX SLI config on battery...

It doesn't help that there are so many mobile games built on OpenGL ES that look nice... Its blurred the definition of mobile gaming even further. People expect that "amazing" render quality they see on their 4, 5, and 6" screens that let them play for a few hours on battery to actually translate into amazing render quality on their 13-18" screens with a few hours of battery as well. I don't really think I need to explain the multitude of errors in their logic on this forum lol.

 

i've said this before, mobile gaming as per PC gaming (to me at least) means more about portability - taking a pc to your destination and playing at the destination (like going to LAN parties) - rather than to play while riding on a plane, or a long distance bus or train ride (i.e. while in transit).

it's the second definition that doesn't work with many, if not all, gaming laptops because in order to get the best experience you need it to function at 100% and that's more important for those who've tweaked their hardware. Things like battery boost is completely useless in trying to balance gaming on a battery and gaming plugged into a wall wort. unfortunately they're not built for that...even the slim models. the battery on even my model is only good enough to do basic stuff like check email or do word processing....stuff i can do on a tablet anyway.

TLDR:

mobile gaming + PC == system portability
mobile gaming + PC != playing on the battery
mobile gaming + tablet == playing on the battery

if you want to game while on a bus, plane, or train ride: get a tablet.

 

I agree with you completely.

 

And even further to this... eGPU solutions like people seem so fond of are useless for taking the machine ELSEWHERE to game, even if that is what people were considering. And let's be honest, if you're carrying an eGPU and whatever peripherals are necessary for it with you somewhere, you might as well build a mITX desktop.

 

eGPUs really are useless as you're defeating the point of it being "mobile gaming". if ppl wanted desktop graphics then get a desktop PC for the same amount or less. even laptops with the 980 notebook still have issues with its size as most are coming out with cooling units that you dock to. to me, i just can't see it being a feasible when laptops are meant to be the opposite.

I think the pre-BGA model laptops are the best mix of everything.

You can't have it both ways: the laws of thermodynamics says so!

 

This is at the heart of the problem. Touting battery life (as many reviewers do) while gaming on the go is ridiculous. It's always going to be a gimped experience without a wall socket. Might as well have a good reason to plug it in when you do get one instead of compromises to play on a bus.
I feel alot of people still think they're going to get full performance with thin and light BGA crud if they use battery.

 

it's a problem that's caused by the manufacturer and the mainstream consumer to where the manufacturer can get away with it on the unsuspecting mainstream consumer.

of course we are the tech savvy crowd and so we know the caveats of gaming laptops.

manufacturers really need to fix their message but i doubt that will happen.

 

I like the idea of pushing graphics processing to an external device, because my Sager notebook doesn't move 90% of the time, and I don't game all that much when I "take it with me." I'll definitely keep an eye on this when I decide to get a new machine.

 

MSI GS30.

Enjoy.

 

I thought the point of an eGPU was not mobility, but simply to extend the life of a (BGA) laptop for people who are gaming at home.

Instead of buying another laptop in 3 or 4 years, all you'd need to do is drop a few hundred dollars on a Volta card or whatever for the enclosure - meanwhile, the same aging laptop is still fast enough to handle non-gaming tasks in the office or at school, traveling, etc. A desktop may be cheaper, but you can't stuff it in your bag and bring it to work.

 

That Asus version is better, Quad core CPU, but Linus didn't say, couldn't say?, if it had a built in discrete GPU.

If it doesn't have a gaming GPU built in, it's still not a gaming laptop.

But, it is a better mate for a gaming eGPU box, Quad core should give you full potential from the GPU in the eGPU box.

 

Yeah. Some secret sauce Asus notebook. Looks nice though, very thin. i7-6700HQ in that thin form factor (just watched video again and heard that). Would be nice if it came with a 950m with the GDDR5 option too, just decent enough to game on the go. But my feeling is that it is just a CPU only notebook. I don't think they are touting the notebook as gaming, just that it shows that you can game like a desktop when hooked to their eGPU.

edit: haha, edited multiple times because I couldn't think what I wanted to say...

 

that, and I dislike ASUS notebooks for their RMA hell and generally high tendency for a lemon. If the external graphics card however works on anything? Then that's probably decent. I hope it requires a reboot though.

The Razer core thing allows hotplugging, which means it uses Optimus. The ASUS one also aims to make use of Optimus-type tech, since it will in the future allow hotplugging (though right now it doesn't; meaning it's BETTER than the Razer one for game compatibility).

It's kind of sad that the people so excited about these things don't actually realize the implications of what they're looking for in a system. If only I could browse around CES and take videos and check out the demos like they could... hell, even @HTWingNut would have a field day and ask the right questions, I bet. @Mr. Fox probably would call everything trash and present his P870DM on the floor from a backpack and prove that they can't, with any notebook on the floor, beat his system in a benchmark xD.

 

Yeah, would love to attend one of those some day. I would probably get kicked out though, lol.

Asus seems to like proprietary stuff though. With an eGPU would make most sense to have it open. There really isn't anything keeping it from being an open component, just need integrated Windows drivers or AMD/Nvidia drivers.

But yeah a reboot would be fine. I don't see needing to unplug and go all the time. That way you have full driver support for the card you use, not through crappy Intel drivers.

 

NBR field trip to CES 2017?

Usually attend Sundance and NATPE in January, might be able to make a detour if I drive.

 

Just give me a plane and I'll fly you there!

 

like i said you can't have it both ways: if you want a longer life out of your PC then you gotta sacrifice on other things...in other words get a desktop if you want it to last longer!

 

Yeah, that is really sad. But, as they say, ignorance is bliss. It's really great for the OEMs selling garbage that so many people don't know any better. That might catch up to them and bite them in the butt, and hopefully sooner than later, once enough people figure out how crappy Optimus and BGA turdbooks really are. I'd love to see them have to eat millions of dollars worth of BGA junk that nobody is willing to pay their money for.

That's sounds exactly like something Mr. Fox would do. Gotta call the balls and strikes as I see them. Sometimes you have to embarrass people before they will pay attention long enough to understand that their stuff really sucks. Otherwise, I'd need to be on meds for depression with all of the worthless garbage they're peddling as "gaming" notebooks.

 

Lol fieldtrip. Good idea!

That monstrosity is a farce. Looks like a small desktop box. How can this be called a "true" gaming notebook...

 

Real gaming laptop became reality sinse 2010 with Alienware m17x R1, they are nearest so powerfull such good desctop PC, and now they are development more and more faster. Im prefect more gaming laptops (before i play only on Desctop) because they are now super powerfull (MSI GT80s good exemple) and mobile, so i can take it any were.

I love it.

 

I personally think eGPUs (assuming they work properly) have a definite use/place, such as the MSI GS30. You get an almost-ultrabook laptop, and the eGPU is basically a docking station. A proper, powerful desktop will still cost a lot more than just an eGPU. RAM, SSDs, CPU, motherboards, all add substantially to the cost.

For some, they want a powerful "desktop" gaming machine, a thin portable laptop, and they want them to be the same machine (aka they don't want to spend money on two complete systems, and they don't want to have to maintain two systems).

This is why I think the Alienware GA would be a brilliant solution...if it were designed to be used with thin, non-gaming laptops. An eGPU that's designed to be used with a "high-end" gaming laptop just doesn't make sense.

Personally, my ideal solution would be something akin to the MSI GS30, but I want to see more and better eGPU support/solutions, as well as for eGPUs to become more standardized, before I jump on that bandwagon.

 

That's a very small niche market to make eGPUs successful. Considering most of us have high end laptops, it's still useless.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

You hit the problem on the head right there, for many managing even 1 PC is a PIA, and the thought of keeping 2 up to date with the same software installed on both is a fearful proposition.

It's a software problem. Someone needs to solve how to keep 2 Windows environments sync'd up and make it a brainless effort to link the systems together so there isn't such a large barrier to having a laptop and a desktop to manage for the large majority that don't care to spend their lives being System Administrator's

For me I prefer 2 different systems, and don't want 2 OS's sync'd up.

At best I would like a large IO channel connecting me to the dock disk(s) so I can do a backup of my mobile laptop to it whenever I plug in or place it on the dock tray.

That's why the new GS40 and GS40 dock make more sense to me than the eGPU.

I just wish the dock/eGPU would provide more of the traditional services, like Disk, Optical - seems obvious with no internal Optical in the super thin laptops now, and a full compliment of ports / connectiviy: TB3, USB 3.x, 10gbit ethernet, etc.

Focusing the eGPU dock on only a single GPU for function seems very limited. I hope they will support 2x PCIE slots as well.

 

People with high-end laptops are clearly not the target market of eGPUs, but that doesn't make them useless. They're just useless to you. I find bras to be useless, but I hear that women find them quite useful.

It is a small market however. It would probably be very popular with students, as they often want a small, thin notebook for taking with them to class, but they also want a powerful gaming rig at home. For a traveling sales professional, maybe not so much, as they may want to be able to game on the go.

Essentially, if you have a desktop gaming rig and a thin notebook for work/class, this type of eGPU solution is right up your alley. For everybody else, probably not so much.

 

Essentially this. I find the GA a good addition for my 13 R1, though I don't really need my laptop for notes, so ehh. I like the portability nonetheless.
Those in a similar situation to college students can advantage of an eGPU set-up, and given the biggest demographic of eGPUs (said college students), it's kind of easy to see why the Razer Stealth + Core combo is the new "hot thing".

 

It should have at the very least had the i7 w/ Iris 540 (Double the shaders, 64MB of L4, etc) though, to make it worth something while undocked.

 

Quoted for truth. Making the dock full service with disk, optical, and full compliment of ports and services as well as the eGPU is how this concept should be done. And implemented. Then you have a full service machine at home, the thin and lighter machine folks want on the road. A good happy medium which makes common sense. This makes full on gaming and work and pleasure easier to do.

 

You are the 2nd person to say essentially this, if I already have a desktop PC and a thin notebook...

If I already have those things, I don't need the eGPU

If I already have those things, I won't want to stick a high end GPU in a eGPU box, I will want to add it to my desktop for SLI, or to replace my slower older GPU.

If I already have a desktop and a laptop, which I do, I don't want an eGPU solution.

What I think people aren't thinking through is that they are losing the 2 independantly functional systems they have with a laptop and a desktop, and replacing it with 2 pieces that need to be wired together to give them the functionality they want.

Apart they now have a simple CPU based laptop and a non-functional box.

I am suggesting to think it through a bit more, and get a nice Ultrabook for mobile, and build a nice desktop for gaming / main use.

If you think about plugging in the Ultrabook TB3 into the TB3 port on your desktop to use the GPU / large screen, that would be similar to the eGPU system model.

If I could do that I would still have 2 fully functional systems, but my interaction between the 2 would be enhanced.

That's what I think I would like to see, a TB3 solution that I can install (hardware or just software), that would let me sync between my laptop/desktop, and let me use the resources of the other from both.

They need to make the eGPU box a fully functional computer that I could use with the connected large screens, letting me use the laptop / desktop(eGPU) independantly.

I just can't stomach paying $500 for the eGPU box + $500-$1000 for a high-end GPU only to have that eGPU box useless without a laptop to act as the compute interface.

 

ROAD TRIP!

 

Me too!

We'll see. If it is proprietary then might as well forget about it, because I'll never in my life recommend an ASUS notebook to anyone until they fix their QA, support and anti-consumer designs... and with how everybody lauds them already, that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.

Exactly. This is exactly what I mean. But people are all happy about convenience and the tech just must adapt somehow dammit! >_>. This is why the people who know notebooks inside out should be the ones writing about things. Tell people exactly what they're getting, just like they do for desktop hardware.

If only people would figure it out. I do what I can but I have no voice; hopefully somebody with a voice does so. At the least I have people who direct prospective midrange tier+ laptop buyers to me, and they in turn usually direct others to me too. So I'm getting a little part done.

LOL. Even my sister LOL'd. (She actually understands how stupid it is to shove powerful stuff in superthin machines too, though she isn't an enthusiast).

Yes, I definitely agree with machines like the MSI GS30. That's the way to go. It's got a passable CPU (sadly BGA) in terms of strength, and its adapter solution properly requires a reboot, and has sufficient I/O and storage capabilities for the machine. That's the way to go. These other machines however, are not practical in any way. Either they're likely to thermal throttle like ASUS' notebook is (I STILL don't believe it doesn't throttle in that size... even if Skylake at 3.1GHz is cool... 3 hours of GTA V will fix that) or they're low powered and pretentious like the Razer Stealth. At least the AW13 doesn't pretend to be something different; it's a midranged system all-round and simply has graphics adapter capability as an added bonus; not being "designed for" the adapters.

Yes, and this is where they are willing to grasp at any hint of the laws of physics disappearing.

If it requires a reboot and it uses the dGPU properly without passing through the iGPU, and is an open standard for any notebook with a compatible port? Great! Going through Optimus-like tech or being proprietary (especially for machines which already have strong gaming solutions) is just the opposite of progress, even if people who have no idea what they're talking about butter it up.

Yup, I'd be happy to see it with certain machines. Look at Clevo; they're offering iGPU-only systems with desktop skylake CPUs soon, if not already. i7-6700K and no dGPU in a somewhat small chassis with decent I/O and price, and an eGPU solution when at home? Even *I* can find use for a setup like that today (though of course it wouldn't be my primary system setup, of course).

To my knowledge sir, no Skylake Iris Pro iGPU-using CPUs have released for the mainstream market. So this is likely impossibru.

YES. LET'S DO IT. Somebody fly me out.

 

Are we there yet?

Obviously, desktop by itself is always cheaper than a comparable laptop, but it's not an option for many of us who need a decent laptop for school or work.

Now that we will have various TB3 options, I'm betting it will be cheaper to buy an eGPU & Volta card than it would be to buy a new gaming laptop in three years, and a hell of a lot cheaper than buying separate high end laptop and high end desktop.

Although in my case I will go with both since I'm winning the Powerball Wednesday.

 

NBR crew arriving at CES:

 

A little motivation, to step up our game

 

All options still have one thing in common: you can't have it both ways when you're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

 

Um...I don't think people dress up for CES, but if you have the dream, go for it!

 

CES seemed more boring than usual, these videos show more creativity and life...

Maybe that's what CES is missing, Cosplay

 

I bet that Iron Man still has BGA chips in it...

 

But, you do have a voice. Your influence is greater than you might imagine. Just keep talking and planting seeds. Some of them will grow, some of them won't. Without a preacher, how will they ever know the truth? And, remember... you can lead a horse to water...

That's one group and there are already of a ton of mediocre BGA options available to tickle their fancy. But, then there is also sorely neglected elitist group... You know, the " I don't have a desktop, and I don't want a compromised BGA smartphone notebook" group that just want to have the best of both worlds in a totally wicked desktop-laptop beast machine. But they only have like, I dunno, ONE OPTION left to choose from with all the modern technology. We could stretch the truth to say there are two beast options if they want a new Eurocom Panther mega-destroyer machine, but that's not built on a foundation of current technology. It's only still awesome today because of it's utterly insane brute force abilities.

 

what's with all the NYCC vids?

 

I hear what you are saying, if you don't speak up, then you end up with nothing but BGA, then nothing but iGPU, then nothing...