V-sync, Yes or No?

Hello forum,

Ok here is the deal,
I have Dell Inspirion SE17 i7, with Nvidia 650m 2gb 130W and 6GB ram,

I am currently playing "Batman Arkham City GOTY" from steam.

The game made default settings: 1600x 900, Very High detail, V/sync, and Nvidia Physics to "normal".

Problem is that i cant get over 50fps (with minimal being 19fps at worst)

The question is:
1. what will V/sync do to the FPS?
2. and given that i cant even reach 60fps should I USE V/sync???

(Some people suggest that v/sync can help with frame rate.) fluctuation.

p.s - I know that lowering the detail lev and resolution will give more fps. the only question is... what will v/sync do? and should I use it in this situation?)

 

normal vsync will sync your frame times to the refresh rate of your display to prevent screen tearing artifacts.

this reduces your frame rate, often dramatically.

vsync is not generally used to minimize variations in performance, although this might happen as a side effect in certain circumstances. if your frame rate isn't staying above 60, or isn't staying between 30-60, then this side effect wont apply to you (assuming 60hz refresh display).

i would leave vsync off unless you are experiencing bothersome screen tearing artifacts.

 

Vsync puts a cap on your frames at 60max (in your case the cap is at 50fps). And if you frames can't maintain that 60fps, it drops in intervals to either 45 or 30, nothing in-between. I find Vsync to only be useful in games where I am getting over 100fps, as really high frames like that can create annoying screen tearing/jitters. In your case, I would turn it off just to see how high above 50fps your system can get on the game. If you notice a lot of screen tearing/jitters due to having really high frame rates (and they affect your playing of the game), then turn it back off. Most games it's the first thing I turn off and I tend to leave it off.

yea what master said...lol

 

Yeah.... so
What you both try to say is .. no need to if I cant reach 60fps??

If the game cant even reach 60fps and it fluctuates between 30-40 fps. (like mine case)
so
turning on vertical sync will only make things worse (even lower fps values)... making the game unplayable?? is that it?


although the game is fast enough I have some times some video/animation "skipping/zipping" during the cut-scenes. But I think that is due to the sudden fps drop rather than "screen tearing"

 

Vsync is only useful if your comp can push a game so the fps exceeds your display's refresh rate. If you can't push your game over 60fps leave it off. If you see tearing and it annoys you (it annoys me greatly) turn it on.

 

Also I think v-sync causes latency for your mouse. At least in some games, if you want more responsive controls turn off vsync, but for the most part I keep it on, since I prefer to not have screen tearing.

 

I've always left V-Sync off for the most part.

 

I use it for 3rd person games like batman or assassins creed. For 1st person i leave it off

 

even if you can reach 60 fps, you would only want to enable vsync if you are noticing screen tearing (horizontal cuts in the image) and it's bothering you.

vsync reduces performance and can cause other unwanted side effects. generally, leave it off unless you are trying to fix screen tearing. that is the only good thing vsync does.

vsync does not resolve performance problems.

 

No. Mouse lag = bad.

 

IMO Vsync helps keep your framerate stick to the multiples of your refresh rate. But yeah I don't see that much improvements. I don't see bad ones either, so I just leave it on. Just a tip though, you might want to select the CPU for PhysX effects. It might help raise your minimum framerates. Your GT 650M might be getting that low because of the PhysX processing.

 

General understanding (aka google search) is that leave it off unless you get problem with screen tearing.

 

If you get more than 60 at all times, I tend to activate it myself, seems to smooth things out at times.. otherwise not worth it

 

Use Vsync only if you find tearing effects. In all other situations turn it off.

 

The answer should be always yes, unless you have a specific reason to turn it off.

When it is on your saving the cpu & gpu from rending more frames than necessary, this reduces wear & tear, heat, and power use. Also many times it will prevent screen tearing.

The reasons you would go with "no" are if the games performance becomes a problem with it on (frame rate too low since gpu/cpu cant keep frame rate high enough for a good sync) or the game your playing has other adverse reactions to vsync like mouse lag.

 

Personally, I keep it off most of the time unless I notice any screen artifacts or tearing, which hardly ever happens. Maybe a poll would do this thread some good!

 

Yeah, I tend to leave it off, just because vsync does cause issues with latency.

 

I disagree strongly for a variety of reasons.

1. The lifetime of your CPU and GPU is very long.
2. Vsync doesn't necessarily prevent frames from being rendered internally. This may depend on the implementation. Vsync makes sure that the frame buffer contains complete frames when the frame buffer is sent to the monitor. The "external" frame rate (apparent frame rate from the perspective of your monitor, or external frame rate of your GPU) will be capped at the refresh rate of the monitor. The "real" frame rate (internal frame rate, or rendered frame rate, or frame rate from the perspective of your CPU and GPU internally) does not have any hard limits with vsync enabled.
3. Vsync does not only prevent unimportant frames from being sent to the display. It makes sure that all frames are complete by keeping the frame buffer updates in sync with the refresh rate. This can cause major decreases in performance in common scenarios (if your frame rate is ever slightly lower than the refresh rate of your display - this is extremely common).

Ultimately, you can decide for yourself, it's a trade off:

With V-Sync enabled, your GPU only "pushes" (at most) the same of number of frames per second as your display's refresh rate. If it cannot prepare enough frames to refresh the display on every cycle, then it will have to wait all the way until the next cycle to display that frame, cutting your visible frame rate to half of your refresh rate.

Internally, you computer still prepares as many frames as it can, regardless.

Again, what you get from vsync is synced output of frames. That means your display will never display two partial frames. This phenomenon may or may not occur / may or may not be visible / may or may not be bothersome, depending on the application. With vsync enabled, you guarantee that it will not occur.

What vsync costs is a small amount of added latency between the frame that you see and the frame that was rendered. Why? Some frames will be "pushed" to the display later than they would have otherwise because they are waiting on a timer. Some partial frames (that represent new information) may be dropped or sent later when complete.

Vsync also has a massive performance cost whenever the frame rate dips below the refresh rate.

To me, it seems clear from a matter of practicality that you would not want to enable vsync unless you are experiencing screen tearing. I suppose it's basically equivalent to say that you should enable vsync unless you experience performance problems or input latency, because again, these are the only trade offs. However, I have the sense that most people are very sensitive to frame rates in general, and in particular to fluctuations in frame rates, and aren't running their games at frame rates above their display's refresh rates 100% of the time. I also have the sense that most people are not very sensitive to screen tearing and that it isn't a common artifact for most applications. However, you may have different experiences.

 

I recommend using Vsync + Triple buffering in every game to mantain optimal fps while eliminating the annoying screen tearing.

Look up Rivatuner D3Doverrider and run that program in the background either setting vsync and tb on globally (I use medium detection) or determined by the game .exe.

 

better to be off for FPS

 

and i second this

 

Trust me masterchef vsync makes a very real performance impact on any game, never has mattered "how" its implimented its the difference between a 100% gpu load and a nice 60% or so. It is worse in older games where FPS can go into the hundreds. I will KNOW vsync is off simply because my room will be 15 degrees hotter after playing for about 30 minutes. That is how much a difference it makes on the load on the system, and before I had a silent case the fans were much louder as well.

The way I worded my statement there really is no way to disagree, you should have it on unless you have specific reasons to do otherwise, you stated things like performance drops etc, well that means for the system you have and for the games your playing you have a reason to turn it off do you not? When you have a 4.5ghz quad core cpu and dual GPU's I dont need all that power unloaded all the time :/

 

But that's not performance, that's limiting heat. If heat is a problem then maybe you could use Vsync to cap frames. If you're not concerned about that then the only reason to use it is to alleviate screen tearing.

 

I took Your advice of going in to the Nvidia cont.panel and setting the PhysX GPU to Intel4000HD.

And HOLLY HELL THAT IS A LOT OF FPS!!

What does it do now?? Does that mean that during the game there are two GPUs working now???
for example Like 650m working on "hard stuff (the game itself)" and Intel running in background just the "PhysX details?" :hi2:

 

Are you sure its the 4000hd or the CPU?

 

I don't understand how some of you guys can withstand the negative side effects of vsync. For me, I can't stand having vsync on as it introduces severe mouse lag (aka input lag). Vsync is a true nightmare for hardcore PC gamers like myself.

 

CPU= 4000HD (aka. CPU GPU)


Processor alone cant render and display animations.

Yet I'm still confused regarding this setup. Does that mean both GPUs work at the same time during the game??? (Because I see the PhysX effects but now I can go like 60/90fps.)

 

PhyX = Physics = number crunching = CPU or Nivida GPU number cruching

 

Ok I can actually see their point of using V/sync. Because I play Fallout New Vegas on Ultimate max settings and still cap 200fps.

But because of that I really have some choppy animations and turning on V/sync really makes the experience nice.


Still Never would use it in Multiplayer COD or any shooter.

p.s - You know that game is old once you can use vertical sync with out any performance problems xDDD (Like my Bioshock 2)

 

The CPU and the IGP are not the same thing. The IGP is turned off when the dGPU is turned on. The CPU is performing the Physx calculations.

 

The IGP isn't turned off when the dGPU is on. If the iGPU wasn't turned on then you wouldn't get a picture on the screen. But I'm pretty sure GPU based physx is limited to nvidia GPUs only, so I'm not sure what's happening with the HD4000.

 

It's not completely turned off, but it's not performing graphical work. I think he's confused.