Volta: NVIDIA's Next Generation GPU Architecture (2017-2018)

Can anybody talk me out of my current logic? If pascal only has 6-12 months of life left, why would I drop $1800-2000 use only to have volta/vega overshadow shortly? What is there about pascal that could possibly be worth the cost over say, this... https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01K8OTQE8?ref=olp_product_details

Of note, VR is a non factor to me. Struggling to see the benefit when the cheapest pascal card, 1060, benches lower performance than 980m and at higher cost.

 

Well, Volta in 2017 is just a rumor and we might get bigger Pascal next year instead. And I don't think we will see bigger Pascal in laptops. And I don't expect Vega to find a place in notebook when AMD can't even fit RX480 on there.
1060 runs cooler than 980m while providing similar performance and will likely perform better at future DX12/Vulkan games since Pascal does it better than Maxwell.

 

Volta currently runs hotter than Pascal. There are changes in the works however but even those changes are hitting a wall. Until other technology is developed and put into production, Moore's Law is over for both CPUs and GPUs finally hit the wall too.

 

Am I likely to experience these benefits in games coming soon like Andromeda or CoD MW remastered? Because to me, if both cards can max the quality settings and one is just working harder to get there, what's the difference? Given volta may take a year or more to hit the shelves, wouldn't a 980m survive until then? I realize this may have something to do with personal preference.

 

Good God! @D2 Ultima said that Pascal is hot, but if Volta is even hotter, it may make sense to get a Pascal laptop. And we can pretty much say goodbye to thin-and-light laptops for the near future (considering that they are overheating on Pascal). Dang. Since I want thin-and-light I might have to get something like whatever they put into an XPS 15 refresh, say.

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Volta.

HOTTER.

Pascal.

How, exactly? Like, did they just dump 312 buckets of "hot to not make a GPU.png" into the R&D?

 

Do people really expects consumer volta in 2017? Thats a rather optimistic prediction.

 

If you play games on 1080p, I doubt you would have much trouble playing games either on 1060 or 980m. I am not sure if you will still be able to "max the quality settings" on future games but they will survive until volta hits.

 

Early stages. It's also not a huge delta over Pascal, nothing like Maxwell -> Pascal. I don't have any more info other than Nvidia is on track to deliver cards in 2017 for Summit and Sierra. No word about anything else.

 

I might be off topic but would it be safe to assume that getting something small with pascal and ride it to volta would be a good idea?

 

So... Volta is a huge flop right now? GLORIOUS.

Also, it took me nine refreshes to be able to see this message. Pls fix forum Ethrem

 

As with any gaming laptop purchase, buy what you can afford at the time that does what you want it to do right now + some headroom for future game bloat requiring more graphics power.

It's a fine line to walk, buying the new GPU / CPU technology at release vs getting the most life out of your purchase.

You want to be sure of what you are buying - wait for real reviews and hands on reports, and watch for bugs or production problems in forums.

When the problems are gone - or you think you can live with them - and the temperatures and performance match your expectations for the laptop, then search for a great price, ask for discounts, and buy.

It doesn't matter if its a low end or high end Pascal laptop, it's what you want and need, and can afford, that counts.

Look at the old Pascal threads, going back 2-3 years, and all the fuss from people waiting all this year for Pascal to release. Now's the time to start hunting down that perfect laptop for you.

If you feel you have to wait for Volta, then wait, but you don't need to wait to game now.

You can Wait now, or Game now, it's up to you

 

True enough, the 765m im rocking is a little toothless now a days. I keep seeing people throwing around volta 2h 2017 which gets me a little worried about the lifespan of pascal.

 

Pascal is a stopgap but consumer volta probably is end of 2017 at best and 1h 2018 realistically

 

Same happened with Pascal, it's just around the corner, people said, "should I wait on my Maxwell purchase"? Years went by

I saw a couple pull the trigger on an expensive 980/980m SLI laptop months and weeks just before Pascal for laptops released. Very sad that they waited so long, and then didn't wait long enough.

Pascal is plenty fast, a 765m was slow when it came out 2.5 years or more ago, now it's holding you back, so upgrade to something nice in a Pascal, long or short, and trim back the CPU voltage, get a laptop cooler, and have fun gaming.

That Pascal anything is going to be quite the boost over that 765m, I had one in a G750JW, had a 770m in a JX, and went on to get the 780m in a JH - kept that for 2 years - then got the GT80 980m SLI - now waiting for the 1080 SLI's to shake out and get good performance and lower temps.

If you never jump, you can never fly

 

I see. Do we have a clue which technologies will be coming with it?

I have heard pcie 4.0, NV link, newer processors with 6 core support.

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It's got nothing right now, it's not available

You are also mixing technologies. NVlink will never be part of Consumer GPU's, something like it might be available down the road for CPU/GPU link up's, but that's long down the road.

6 core support is a CPU thing, nothing to do with Nvidia or Volta. Game testing has shown that 4 CPU's is just right for 99% of games, any more than that aren't really noticeably helpful.

PCIE 3 isn't even fully used, PCIE 4 won't bring much performance improvement - neither did PCIE 3 when it came out, a few percent.

Nvidia might use PCIE 4.0 to implement SLI or other GPU communications, but that's complete speculation, and in fact SLI as we know it might be gone by then anyway, and multi-gpu support through PCIE 3.0 will work fine.

You are overthinking this. Game and enjoy instead

If you must tease yourself with Volta, read the rumor pages:

NVIDIA Prepping High-Performance Volta GPU Lineup – GV104, GV102 and GV110 To Feature Completely Revamped SM Architecture
http://wccftech.com/nvidia-volta-gv110-gv104-gv102-gpu/

 

PCI/e 4.0 is board manufacturer side.

NVLink is here with Pascal, and not for consumers. It replaces PCI/e, making it extremely proprietary, and it only truly benefits multi-GPU setups, which are EXTREMELY gutted right now. It is pointless for the consumer.

Mainstream 6-core processors with decent clockspeeds? Good for desktops... but you see laptops? See how Pascal is too bloody hot to cool and OEMs are screwing everybody over left and right because they refuse to sufficiently improve the cooling (and increase size/weight) of the laptops? Expect the same thing to happen over current skylake chips for the CPU. Let me be perfectly clear on this point:

There are two notebooks on the planet I know of that can hold a mainstream hexacore mobile CPU 3.3GHz or above with Skylake-ish level of temperatures and mobile Pascal. They are the GT73VR single-GPU format, and the new ASUS model. AND they would have to use maximum fans to be ok as well. The PxxxDMx models from Clevo use desktop CPUs and thus don't really count in the "hold a mobile chip" deal, however I suspect they'd need to revamp their cooling as well for a hexacore mainstream CPU Kaby Lake refresh.

 

True enough. I suppose I'll pick up one of the gt83's or a p870dm rebrand and flip it when Volta matures.


@D2 Ultima: I see.
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Both those have great potential, but run hot and loud - mostly the P870DM3 - so unless you must have the mostest, get the single 1080 in a GT73, G800, or other non Clevo based frame.

All the top end Clevo's are built with that new high noise turbine fan so all will be loud at load - as @D2 Ultima said max fans may be needed for best cooling at high load. Hopefully Clevo will source a quieter fan, and a new heat sink design for the DM3 - or at least better QC on fit an finish.

The only SLI 1080 machine that can keep the GPU's cool at high load is the Asus GX800 water-cooling.



GX800 Idle Temps:


GX800 Stress Test Temps:


That review only had a pre-production model, with only 2 x 230w power supplies, the production model will come with 2 x 330w and should perform better on a single PSU - maybe even able to run SLI on air-cooling with single PSU.

The GT83VR has it's power supplies welded together at the laptop plug side, so you must carry and use both. So you are stuck transporting all 6lbs of power supplies and power duplexer everywhere you go.

The Clevo P870DM3 can run from one 330w power supply, but you can't get full performance, the P870DM3 shows 520w usage when both power supplies are loaded up.

I don't mind only having 1 1080 active when I am mobile and on 1 330w PSU, as I won't normally be using full GPU until I get to home or work.

For the 1080 SLI models, some waiting is in order, to see if the GT83VR / P870DM3 are tunable for better operating, or if they will get a production change to fix the temperature and noise level (Clevo) issues.

And, to wait for the shipping version of the Asus GX800.

 

interesting, that gx800 did catch my eye when i was looking at all the concepts coming out.

as for the gt83/p870 that some interesting info to consider and mull over, the PS being welded together wouldnt be so much of an issue as my definition of mobility is "pick it up thow it in a bag and place it on a side table."

And i agree as for waiting i saw the gt83 has had some heating issues and i havent seen anything on the p870dm

 

P870DM3 is indeed loud, but apparently if you get a proper cooler and use max fans, it isn't so hot.

As for the Clevos, only the P870DMx use the 12v superloud fans. The P775DM3 and P750DM2 should be fine, so a P775DM3 could be an option for single 1080.

I'm waiting to see how the P870DM3 turns out for more people, because I know Clevo and bad contact heatsinks is indeed a real, if rather uncommon, problem. Max fans is something people seem to not use I think.

 

Follow the P870DM2/DM3 owners discussions here, you may need to go back/forward a ways through the "fluff" to get to the temperature discussions:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...oenix-2-is-here.794530/page-358#post-10334711

This review by @HTWingNut goes through the temperature and noise issues:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...iew-by-htwingnut.795187/page-17#post-10330410

This thread is mostly P870DM/DM2/DM3 reports:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-overclockers-lounge.788975/#post-10334835

 

Max fans is unbearable for most people, it's too loud to enjoy anything on the laptop. It's well above the comfort level of people not used to datacenter or server level shrieking fans.

Bearing up under the noise of Max fans is a right of passage for getting the best benchmark results, but other than occasional use it's not good for your hearing.

I haven't seen a 1080 in a P775DM3 yet, but I have heard talk of someone wanting it, not available yet? Link to test results?

 

Actually, johnksss and Prema have shown near parity between desktop and laptop 1080s, something I have not seen from the Asus!!! This is BEFORE Prema unlocks it. After, you may be pissed you went with a different machine because of noise. Plus, as far as CPU, there is no comparison!!!

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Calm down man, it's just PC's

The heat and the noise is a problem, and I won't be upset if I missed out on either. The CPU isn't everything, it's not worth an uncomfortable use profile.

Not gonna make a move for quite a while, looks like months at this rate, so there is plenty of time to fix the P870DM3 / GT83VR heat and noise issues.

That's why I keep suggesting to people to wait for things to shake out before buying.

 

As for sound, I use a rather loud, but very good, HEPA in my room. So far, I've never heard a laptop that overpowers it, not to say it doesn't exist.

Meanwhile, if you are getting the colostomy bag, disassemble it, look at the parts, and build a mirroring aftermarket solution with WAY better cooling. Something like the 360x360 with gentle typhoons, a nice pump and radiator for it to sit next to it, a fake out to make it think it's connecting to protrude the quick disconnects and allow power to be plugged in, and any mod if it connects for sensors. This would change the game on cooling it, while potentially giving something you'd want to see instead. Just saying, think outside the box...

But another is to see if the modded fans for the msi 12v fans work as well in the dm3. The order was placed a day or two ago and more info is forthcoming!

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Please stop using the name "colostomy bag", as I know people that have them, it's an insult to them as well as the laptop.

I think you can get by without using that name.

 

The max fans on the P870DM3 yes. I agree, it's rather loud. It won't matter to most headset users, though, so there is that, but indeed it will cause some issues depending on where one uses it. Johnksss I believe said that the game was loud enough to surpass the fans, but it is indeed a per-user situation. I just meant that the cooling could actually work without much modification. When the clevo app actually works (lol) 80% fans might be a good balance for some people.

Yeah, I want to see someone get it too. I've heard HTWingNut might get one for review soon, hopefully it turns out well. But just from looking at the internal system, I think it can handle a single 1080 as long as heatsink contact is good.

 

The cooling provided by the Asus GX800VH water-cooler dock works great already, there is no need to replace it. Idle CPU/GPU temps are 35c/37c, and load CPU/GPU temps are 81c/61c, that's way better than air-cooling.



The Asus GX800 water cooling dock is small and quiet, and fits within the dock profile. I think it looks great as is.

Anything larger and it would look like that MSI laptop sitting on an external printer box.

It's not worth hacking together another solution to get a few degrees cooler, while adding another cooling tower and water hoses to hook it up.

That would look dopey, and probably add an element of danger if you tripped over something and pulled on the hoses, ripping them out of the tower or laptop, or both.

I'm all for optimization, it's a big part of what I do for a career, and as part of that you learn to realize there is a limiting range of time, effort, and cost that exceeds returns.

Besides, I'm paying Asus to engineer and support the laptop and the water cooling dock, why would I void the warranty just to screw with it for a potential improvement that wouldn't even show up in use?

You should really move that HEPA unit out of the room and connect it through the wall / ceiling with intake and output ducting. Those constant noise generators will deafen you over time. At least run it for intervals only long enough as needed to cycle the room clear.

Active noise canceling headphones aren't really a good solution either, as they apply pressure on your inner ear, which to some feel as discomfort after using them for a while. I limit ANC use for that reason.

Passive noise canceling can also be a problem. Wearing them your ears are "air-tight" and prone to cause ear-infections if you are susceptible to them.

There are also studies that constant environmental noise affects your entire nervous system, and has wide-ranging health effects.

Such constant noise can cause stress leading to making up names for laptop dock hardware that others find offensive

Health effects from noise
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_from_noise

And, yes I am also hoping for a new fan choice for the DM2/DM3 laptops to arrive into production, it may take a slight redesign to fit a new brand / model, so it could be a while.

 

^ My problem with the watercooled ASUS is that it needs the dock to perform properly. It negates the "laptop" ability. Otherwise a powerful desktop and a midranged or less laptop would be a far better solution.

 

That's less of an issue for me as I don't want to carry around 2 PSU's and duplexer, so I will only have 1 PSU available when mobile to power any 1080 SLI laptop I get.

Which means only 1 GPU will perform at full power - better to disable SLI - and that will be the same no matter which 1080 SLI laptop I get.

It's like an eGPU'er experience, where you only have the gaming GPU when docked, but unlike an eGPU'er, I would still have a full 1080 while mobile

Asus needs to offer easy access to a 2nd water-cooling dock, so I can have one at work and home.

And, maybe a backup dock sitting in that "cool" wheelie suitcase

 

P870DM3 can work on 1 x 330W brick. It's unsupported as an official configuration, but it works. Of course, heavy gaming won't work very well, but as you said you could disable one GPU and be good. You don't even need to turn off SLI... you can disable it via the API using nVidia Profile Inspector. Or you can edit the registry to disable/enable SLI without a reboot.

Yes, I agree. These things need to be available to buy.

 

@hmscott that doesn't seem to be any worse than what I'm dealing with now and what i have dealt with in the past in terms of fan noise. if all else fails i can follow Linus's example and use thunderbolt to hide it in the living room.

 

Which "that"? P870DM3, GT83VR, or?

Hide what in the living room - at the end of a TB3 cable? How would you use the screen, keyboard, trackpad if the laptop is in another room?

 

Both lol. But in reference to the 870dm video that you posted.

And I saw on one of the Linus tech tips videos he had a little powered dock that allowed him to pass USB 3.0 mDP 1.2 through the thunderbolt port on his computer. I can't seem to find the video for the life of me while I'm stuck on my phone.

@home now:
the magic starts at 11 minutes. lol

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It's looking very much like AMD is expected to launch Vega 1H 2017, likely Q1. I'm betting NVIDIA will respond with Volta soon after.

It's a shame to see Pascal may only have a single year!

 

Not such a shame when you look at how hot Pascal for laptops is ( @D2 Ultima can attest to this). And although @Ethrem says that Volta will be hotter, I hope they figure out a fix for that soon.

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Magic indeed, that man is a wizard. Looked like a solid $20k in his setup, literally so he didn't have to hear any fan noise. Sad thing is I would totally do the same.

 

Volta is apparently hotter, lol.

 

Nice to know

In the past I have had custom cables built to push the noisy hardware to another room - insulated / air-conditioned.

But the wad of cables was thick and expensive to feed all the machines into my office. Way worth it, but nice to know I can do it with a tiny fiber cable now.

That's one of the reasons I went with laptops when they became plenty fast.

Using the laptop I could connect to remote access to servers all over the house (world), and the only wires are power and ethernet - wireless keyboard

With the P870DM3 "Tubinator", it would defeat the purpose of a having a laptop to move it to the "noisy room" out of the quiet room; I might as well build a rack mount server.

That's why Clevo's gotta come up with some new gentle "Whoosh" fans instead of the "Delta Fan" 12v Screamers.

 

Wait, so Volta is for sure 2017?

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Hmm, in my opinion, from how the market is moving, there's an 80%~ chance that Volta will be announced at GTC in May of 2017. Not launched, but announced.

I'd also say there's a good chance it'll still be 16nm, but hoping & betting I'm wrong there. It would be wise to move onto 10nm from their perspective.

 

I doubt Volta will be launched until Q4 2017 or later.

Also, I am sure that they will come out with the 16nm first to milk that tech first and release the 10nm at end of 2018 or sometime in 2019 (second gen Volta).


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I guess we're stuck on 16 nm for a while! Really doubt that any big gpu chip on 10/7nm will be out until 2018/2019.

Volta will depend on how Amd Vega performs, but ince i doubt that it will be faster then a titan x pascal (future 1080ti), we are in for long time with pascal. Maybe 4Q 2017, but more likelly 1/2Q 2018 for Volta.

 

Due to it having HBM2, I suspect Vega will be able to match Pascal. I agree with @J.Dre that there is a very good chance that we will see Volta announced at GTC in May. I think it will be released in Q3/Q4 2017.

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I believe a lot of people are confused about the poll. It asks when you believe Volta will be announced, not launched. NVIDIA very rarely announces a new GPU architecture in 2H.* It's fairly safe to assume they'll launch Volta sometime at the end of Q2 or early Q3. That seems to be the common period of time for a product launch.

Oh well, I suppose it hardly matters at this point.

 

http://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia/nvidia-gtx-1080-ti-release-date

October is when the rest of the Pascal cards launch, and we expect the 1080Ti to hit the market around Q1, which will be the final consumer (gaming) Pascal-based GPU EVER.

Vega will be announced at CES with the launch of Zen, and Volta is expected to be announced at GTC in May.

 

So 1:1 with my expectations

 

So, any news on Einstein yet? Since I just bought Pascal and probably will skip Volta, I'm tempted to beat @J.Dre to it and just start an Einstein thread now