Weird results with ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4670?

Hi,

I've got an Acer Aspire 5920G (Core 2 Duo T9300 2.5GHz - nVidia 9500M GS) to which I recently swapped the original vga with ATI Mobility Radeon HD4670, the fastest card that could work in my laptop and twice as fast as the 9500M GS it replaced.

Now, 2 things strike me after I've installed the card:

1) I ran a 3d Mark 06 test to get a poor 4650 score. Normally, paired with a T9500 (2.8 GHz) cpu, this card has scored from 6800-7200. Surely my cpu isn't that weaker to get an almost 40% drop in graphics performance.

2) Subsequently, I found out that the card's memory was clocked at 500 MHz as opposed to 800MHz which is the stock frequency for this card. I then set it to 800 MHz and re-ran 3d Mark only to get the exact same score 4650...

What do you think is going on? I mean this card should be twice as fast as the one it replaced (9500M GS) and almost 20% faster than an 9600M GT (3d Mark score ~ 5100). I do not stick to absolute values anyway, but it seems to perform way lower than quoted values. FYI, the card is brand new, not used or modified in any way.

Could be the CPU limiting performance that much? I find it hard to believe as like I've said, in various tests it was paired with fairly similar processors as mine and it achieved far superior scores.

Any suggestions welcome...

 

Have you tried running any games you use to play on your 9500M GS?

 

Yes, I have and there is a noticeably better performance but I guess until I record some facts and compare them, it's just my feeling which could well be biased.

Forgot to mention I'm running windows 7 x32 / Catalyst version: 12.3

 

I guess that's the DDR2 version. Which tool you have used for the overclocking? It seems that it doesn't make effect to the performance. Another thing is that setting the memory to 800MHz, it should crash directly, since it's too high for a DDR2. Download GPU-Z and tell us what it says, or post a shot of it.

 

Hi,
I used RBE (Radeon Bios Editor) + ATI Winflash. If you have something else to recommend for overclocking please do so. Here's a screenshot of GPU-z as requested:



What do you think?

 

GPU-Z shows, that this card is DDR2 indeed. Nevertheless, it also shows, that the card is running at lower clocks than the default ones -> it is throttled for some reason.
You can use RBE to change the profile with 400/500 clocks to default 790/800.
You should also make sure that the laptop's PSU is providing enough juice for the faster card (i.e. if the PSU is rated at 90W, try plugging a 120W one in).

 

Ok, seems I didn't actually change the clocks then. I will re-try to alter these using RBE and report back later tonight...

 

If I recall correctly, you have to tweak the third settings as well (the one with the highest clocks on the first row). Sorry it was long time ago and I don't have it currently installed. Be sure NOT to touch the boot settings, or you could render it useless. Another thing - try with different drivers, when I had HD3650, this was the case. Lastly try Sapphire TRIXX. Maybe I should have started with it, since it's the easiest among the other options.

 

Yes, you are right. It's the 3rd row of settings that I need to modify as per instructions of the official seller of the graphics card. The problem is that even though I have modified the clocks from RBE, the card continues to run underclocked at 400/500 MHz!!! This is what I have now in RBE:



I even tried and changed ALL rows to the same settings as the 1st one, but the card kept running in 400/500 MHz even though these values were not written in any of the rows!

Do I maybe need to flash the bios of the video card? But I don't know where to find another bios for it or what tool to use...

One more thing that makes me suspect there is an issue with my video bios version is that before I apply any changes from RBE by flashing back the bios, I get the following message:

 

Modify the vBIOS from the actual card, not a file. You load it into RBE by clicking "Acquire BIOS". After acquiring it, modify and then reflash it to the card. Any vBIOS modifications have to be followed by reflash. Otherwise, there is no change whatsoever.

 

Ok, but that's what I've done already. After I had modified the values I selected "Flash bios" but although it looks like its working (no error messages) , it keeps running at 400/500 MHz.

As I said, once I even changed the values of ALL rows in RBE, and made them identical to the 1st one (boot mode): 675/500/1.2V. I flashed back and rebooted and after reboot, I opened RBE and verified that all rows had the same values BUT! the card was still running in 400/500 (!)

I don't know what else needs to be unlocked in order to change the clocks...

 

Try flashing the modified vBIOS with atiflash, not atiwinflash. You'll need a bootable USB flash drive to do so.
You may also try to unlock the vBIOS before editing it (atiflash -unlockrom 0).

 

Well, this will have to wait I guess as I don't have any flash drive handy (except from external HDDs) and I would need to find some instructions on how to create this boot drive...

UPDATE: I just realised I was using AtiWinFlash 2.0.1. 11 aged from 8 Feb 2010 whereas there is a latest version available: 2.0.1. 18 which came out just 2 weeks ago... Fingers crossed this will successfully flash the card...! (can't wait to get home now...)

 

Here's a guide by techpowerup:

Guide to Video BIOS flashing

 

Nice, thank you very much.

If, the latest AtiWinFlash version which I just discovered doesn't work either, I will have to resolve to this.

 

UPDATE: Using the latest version of AtiWinFlash didn't work. What strikes me the most is that in RBE I currently have no 400/500 values at all, but still, GPU-Z shows that the cards runs at 400/500... Also, RBE doesn't show any error messages during flashing...

Started getting sick of this. Trying so hard only to get a card to work at its intended rates is so ridiculous to say the least. I also don't have any flash drive to try all this huge ATiFlash procedure which by the way I don't understand why should I. If such a procedure was required I'd expect the store which sold me the card for a respectable amount of money in the first place, to provide it as well. According to them it's all done in one step through RBE... NOT!

 

atiflash -unlockrom 0

This command (in DOS booted from USB flash drive) should solve Your problem. I had similar problem after flashing a new revision of the vBIOS into my 5870M. Any changes made with RBE+atiwinflash didn't work. After applying this command, everything works like a charm (even in Windows+RBE+atiwinflash).

In case You don't have a USB stick, You can also make a bootable CD/DVD (just remember to add the atiflash files to it).

 

Ok, after setting the voltage to 1.10 windows don't start up after initial logo so I guess I have to use atiflash afterall. So I got to DOS mode but when I run the command I get this error:

====================================
Old SSID: 9488
New SSID: 9488
Old P/N: 113-EA6100SS-F02
New P/N: (nothing here just blank)
P/N mismatched

ERROR 0FL01: Press "1" to continue
(pressing 1 just exits doesn't continue)

=====================================


Should I ignore this and run the command with the -f switch that will force flashing even though it may be incompatible?

In video BIOS collection here: techPowerUp! :: Video Bios Collection

it only has two versions, ATI and ACER, I downloaded the ACER one although it says its the GDDR3 version while I have DDR2. But the ATI version is also the GDD3 one so I don't think it will make any difference.

 

Do NOT flash a DDR3 vBIOS to a DDR2 card!
Have You made a backup of Your original vBIOS? If You have, flash it back to the card without any mods. Than run "atiflash -unlockrom 0", then mod the vBIOS.

 

Ok that was close, I was so tempted to flash the bios I had in my hands... Now, I think I may have made a backup earlier through RBE when Windows was still starting up but I am not 100% sure...

It just gets better and better, I knew I shouldn't have bought an under-clocked card in the first place...

 

UPDATE:

flashed original BIOS, ran the unlockrom command, got message "rom unlocked", rebooted to windows, changed settings again from RBE, but this damn card just refuses to move away from 400MHz...!

In contact with the support though, let's see If they have any other ideas...

While I wait for their reply, If I understood correctly, you suggested trying to flash the modified BIOS from atiflash? So, first create it from RBE and save it somewhere, but then apply it from atiflash instead of AtiWinFlash, is that right?

In that case, I just have one question, RBE saves Bios in .ROM files, but what I flashed before from atiflash was a .BIN file. Is it ok to save my modified settings from RBE in a .ROM file and then flash it from Atiflash?

 

Yes, it will work that way.

 

Ok, it's been a long day and it only ended with another strange finding...

So after creating the modified bios from RBE and flashing it from atiflash (I ran unlockrom -0 before flashing it) I yet again ended up with 400/500. This time however, GPU-Z notified of a newer version available. In the changelog this was mentioned: Fixed clocks not showing correctly on some systems with Catalyst 12.2 Could that be I thought? Installed the new GPU-Z and for the 1st time, I saw the clocks running at 675/500!

The joy didn't last long though... In 3DMark06 I achieved exactly the same score as before (4660) and, when I switched to the 2nd tab of GPU-Z (sensors) I saw once again that clocks were running at 400/500. So despite the 1st tab now showing the values I have set from RBE (I set it at 800/667) the 2nd tab still shows the old values (400/500) and even If I ignored GPU-Z completely, I have not seen any improvement at all in 3DMark06 which is what counts after all...

Here is what I get currently from GPU-Z in the 1st and 2nd tab:





I'd like to thank all people for their advice, but this proves to be impossible to revert to original values no matter what I've tried, and I am seriously thinking of returning the card. I'll wait till the support gets back to me but I don't exactly hold my breath tbh...

 

Theese GPU-Z screenshots indicate, that Your system hasn't been loaded with anything GPU-taxing. Start GPU-Z and while it's running in the background, run 3DMark06. Make a screenshot of GPU-Z sensors straight after 3DMark run is finished and then post it here.

It is normal, that GPUs throttle down while not being loaded, in order to reduce power consumption and heat output, especially in laptops.

Also make sure, that the Windows power profile in Your laptop is set to high performance. You may also check Powerplay settings in CCC. Don't forget to plug in the PSU while running the tests .

Keep in mind, that Your card's default clocks were 675/500. 500MHz frequency for DDR2 means, that it will effectively run at 1000MHz. You've set 667 for the DDR2, which means that it will run at 1333MHz, which is a bit too high IMHO. Also, setting the core to 800 from the default 675 might be a little too fast forward. I think that 800/667 clocks were for DDR3 versions of Your card. Try setting it at its default clocks (675/500) and after making sure that it runs at full clocks under load, You may start overclocking.

 

Ok, so I don't have the battery in, I have selected High Performance from power options, and Powerplay is disabled. It was like that from beginning.

I opened GPU-Z, and started the 3DMark06 test. Between the 3d tests when 3dMark returned to desktop, I had a glimpse at GPU-Z indication and the clocks were staying all the time at 400/500. Another proof is that the AVERAGE Clock Reading even after the complete test was again 400 MHz as If it hadn't increased at all during the test.

Here is the GPU-Z screenshot right after the 3dMark06 test finished, I selected the Average values and as you see they had stayed at 400 MHz all along during the test

 

You can try one more thing. While rebooting, go into Your laptop's BIOS and reset it to factory defaults. Reboot into Windows and see if it has changed anything.

MXM-Upgrade (I suppose that's the source of Your card) says, that the laptop's BIOS needs to be updated to the latest revision in order to prevent the 4670 from throttling. If You haven't done that, I suggest downloading the latest BIOS for 5920G from Acer's Web page and updating it.

 

Just wanted to say the same thing. My gpu kept crashing during games, I went to the owner of the mxm upgrade company and we spend hours of finding a solution, while all we needed to do was to upgrade the bios of the acer laptop itself.

This however, has nothing to do with clocking your amd gpu to its 'normal' clocks. If you won't find an aswer here, try and contact the owner of mxm-upgrade, he helped me with dozens of mails with instructions. (Oh and keep the voltage at 1.1, then your temps shouldnt go higher than 94 celcius, which has worked fine for me for the past 1.5 years).

 

Thanks guys, I wish I would read something which I haven't tried already. I had read the notice on the MXM website that BIOS needs upgrading so I had done that before I start with all the flashing process.

In case anybody cares to do a search, the version I applied and currently have is 1.3813 which according to the ACER website is the latest available for the 5920G so that should have done it?

I really am a little disappointed up to now, as I've tried everything but I'll wait to see what MXM suggest. I cannot deny they have been helpful so far, although maybe not as quick as this forum (which is understandable) but If its so much fuss, wouldn't it be a far more better idea to "unlock" the cards to their original values before they ship them? I personally wouldn't mind If my card was not 100% "brand new" but worked as it should, instead of a shiny but 400MHz locked unit.

Anyway, I hope it can get shorted soon as I was really looking forward to revive my laptop with this card and all the good stuff I'd read about it but it's all been in vain so far...

 

So seems I'm on my own on this one after the official reply was a poor and very disappointing "play around with catalyst control center. Disable/enable the performance schedules etc." as If I hadn't already been applying any possible fix...

One last thing that comes to mind is trying to alter the clocks using an XP system and an old Catalyst version through Microsoft Virtual PC 2007... Does anybody reckon this could work? I am not sure how can the catalyst control can affect the "flashability" or not of the card but If others have succeeded reverting the card to its original values in the past then there must be something wrong with my system...

 

Have You tried first unlocking the vBIOS, then modifying it with RBE, then flashing it with atiflash?

 

That would mean:

1) boot with Dos CD and running unlockrom

2) reboot, saving a vBios file from RBE, (should I also try to apply it from AtiWinflash or it doesn't matter?)

3) reboot again with Dos boot CD and applying the saved vBios file from atiflash

Is that correct?

I don't think I've tried this with these exact steps, but I've certainly tried to flash from atiflash, AFTER I've unlocked the vBios so I doubt it will do any change but let's try that as well.

 

1. Flash the original vBIOS with atiflash.
2. Boot into DOS and run "atiflash -unlockrom 0".
3. Reboot into Windows, run RBE, dump the vBIOS, modify the required values, save the vBIOS into a file.
4. Reboot into DOS and flash the saved file with atiflash.

 

Ok, I thought I update this because I finally got somewhere: At one point last night, I gave up trying new settings and opened a video on youtube. After the video finished I took a glimpse at GPU-Z's real time info, and couldn't believe my eyes! For the 1st time ever, It showed that clocks and voltage had been changed to 675/500/1.2 I thought it was somehow fixed but as soon as I closed the Youtube tab from Chrome, clocks and voltage reverted back to throttled values.

Now I tried running 3dMark06, 3d games, or even play some movies from VLC. None of these actions seems to wake up the card and make it function with the higher values. For some strange reason, clocks are going up only when a video is played from Youtube

As I understand it, this could have been the case all along. I just never opened a video on youtube to see the change. It makes sense as I played with different values last night and all of them were being effective even If they were only set from AtiWinFlash (not AtiFlash), but only when I played a video from youtube, not in 3D games, not in video playback.

So, any ideas on how I can make the changes permanent, or even make them being activated with 3D games as well instead of youtube videos? Of course there is always the dumb solution of opening a youtube video and leaving it on pause while you play your games...

 

That is the UVD clocks....

 

Fine. But why it's only the UVD clock that works as set in the vBios while all the other clocks (high performane etc.) are ignored?

Also, does UVD work only with Youtube videos? Because it's not working with any movie I played with VLC.

 

Try media player home cinema.

 

Excuse my ignorance but I don't understand what would I accomplish with that? Having to leave Windows Home Cinema playing instead of youtube in order to have the card working on normal clocks?

 

Yes, and run 3D Mark. How are the temps BTW. Sorry if I missed it.

 

Well, video playback from windows media player is also activating the higher settings so I've now got 2 stupid solutions to get the card to work at its intended rates : 1) either load youtube videos in chrome or 2) play a video through WMP.... I guess the 2nd is using less resources as Chrome is quite heavy to begin with. Why VLC is still sleeping though, that I can't tell.

Other than that, it seems as the Clock Infos I modified from RBE are not the correct ones although all guides for the ATI HD4670 as well as the official advice from MXM indicate these exact clock infos are the correct ones to modify for 3d games and not the UVD ones but it somehow doesn't work that way in mine...

 

I've had something similar with a Radeon HD 3450 in a HP laptop - it would run at 275/600 MHz and would be stuck at those clocks no matter what. Enabling PowerPlay and setting it to High Performance would raise the clocks, but still not to what they should be. I haven't found a solution, unfortunately...

Now, I'm trying to overclock my Radeon HD 3650 using RBE, but any changes I make are not working - the clocks don't go higher, and what's even weirder, the voltage goes to the one I set in RBE (higher or lower, doesn't matter), but jumps back to the default value when loading the card with GPUTool stressing or anything else.

So I wanted to ask, what does the unlock rom option do in atiflash? Can I use it safely on the 3650? Thanks in advance!

 

FINALLY! everything works as it should! Can't believe it but it's true!!!

So, after my partial success to get the card running at the different desired values when on Youtube, I realised that RBE was actually working but something else was preventing the card from running at the same values in 3d games too. I read a little about how RBE works and what do the different settings in the CLOCK INFORMATION tab do, and then I realized I had not enabled PowerPlay from the Catalyst Control Panel Options and that all options of RBE were directly related to that. In a few words, not PowerPlay enable = No effect of the RBE values. As soon as I enabled it, and started a 3d game the card was running at 100% of clock and voltage! HURRAYYYY!

And now a last question... How far can I push the DDR2 memory's clock??? The increase from 400 to 675 MHz provided only a poor 18% increase in the 3DMark06 score so I guess the main limiting factor is the memory... I tried 600 MHz but during 3DMark06 tests, the system hung... Similarly in 550MHz I got the message 3DDevice lost!

 

read this thread, and hopefully you'll be able to find how far you can push your DDR2 memory.

 

Edit: Glad that you made it 600MHz at most I guess, at least that was the top stable clock on my HD3650.

 

Thanks for that, judging by the code in the end (20) it seems it is actually 500 MHz and it is already at that speed. I guess that's why I get artifacts even at 550 MHz of the memory. So I will try the max I can get the core at...!

 

Well, according to my own experience, 1st thing is you should have Powerplay enabled as the RBE settings don't take effect If Powerplay is Disabled. Next, is that you should make sure you modify the correct clock infos from RBE for the appropriate working mode. I am happy to help you with that, PM me with some screenshots of RBE If you want...

Unlockrom will unlock a potentially locked ROM in order to be able to get flashed afterwards, it doesn't do much more by its own so it is safe (and probably recommended) to use before flashing with AtiFlash, just to eliminate this possibility.

I'd say that (again judging by my own experience) an easy test to see If RBE is working or not, is to try and find the UVD settings and change them. If you see the changes being applied every time you play a video (youtube video or Windows Media playey, VLC didn't work for me!) then it's probably Catalyst whos is preventing the changes from being effective in 3D games too.