What can I (we) do?

So, Transformers War for Cybertron just released for PC recently, and was told by friend that 3000 people were torrenting it at the moment.

I checked myself, and its up to 6,000...

What can I (we) do about this? This can't be good for the PC gaming community. Securom doesn't help anyone (hurts actually), but torrenting is rampant.

It irritates me because Steam stats showed a peak of 700/800 people. Imagine if those 6000+ torrenters bought the game. Maybe Activision would actually patch the port and improve it. (The game is great, though as a PC port its the worst I've seen).

Frustrated Gamer.

PS - And yes, I bought it. I want PC gaming to thrive.

 

If one can get something for free, why wouldn't one?

IMO the PC gaming market will slowly decline as a result of this... piracy is a practically insurmountable problem for the PC.

 

And this is exactly what I"m worried about. There is nothing legitimate PC gamers can do? No way to report the torrent? Nothing?

I will admit I have torrent things in the past, but as I've matured I saw more and more just how destructive piracy is/will become.

 

Not really... with a torrent, you can have hundreds or even thousands of seeders... you can't report and track every single one down. And even if you disrupted the torrent somehow, someone would start another.

 

I heard a commercial on the radio this week...apparently the BSA is offering cash rewards for reporting software piracy. Sounds laughable to me, but give it a try I guess.

 

Are you sure those people were going to buy the game anyways? 90% of them wouldn't anyways I would bet.

 

The game industry is paying people to post here now?

What they should do is, instead of making frustrating DRM that causes problems for legit users (such as Ubisoft's, or pretty much anything with an install limit), just go back to a simple CD key or something. Since everything gets cracked anyways, I don't see how anything they try to do (bar everyone going to an OnLive-style service) is going to be any more effective anyways. I've re-installed the original Halo so many times on different computers and OSes over the years, I think I'd go insane if I had to call Microsoft and beg for permission to run my own game over and over every time.

The best way to prevent piracy is, imo, to provide good multiplayer functionality. I bet if you look at a list of the top most pirated games, the vast majority will be single-player oriented, if not outright single-player only. Provide something that makes the legit version better than the pirated version (as in, the opposite of DRM) and people will want to buy it.

The BSA goes after businesses who actually have money to pay up; they could care less about individuals.

Don't be so sure; I've pirated Halo because I damaged by CD beyond readability (but still had my key), and GTA4 to make sure that it would run on my PC (and it didn't run well until they patched it). In both of these cases, I did pay for the game at some point.

 

Somehow make every torrent downloaded give developers money? Idk

 

i have an idea: don't stop what can't be stopped

 

And assuming pirating is limited to JUST PC's is wrong. Pirating for the 360 and Wii are just as rampant as the PC. DLC will be the savior of Singleplayer games and Multiplayer key's to play online will save games with great multiplayer. Unless your stupid like borderlands and have great multiplayer and require no uniquie key to play online...

 

I'd say its a stretch to say that console pirating is as rampant as PC.

Let me rephrase part of my original post, if there was no possible way to torrent/get the game free, would there be a noticeable increase in sales?

And I'm not working for anyone rofl. Just posting my observations to get reactions and expand my understanding of the industry/piracy/pc gaming. ^^

 

Hence, laughable at best.

 

There is not much we can do apart from show our support by buying it. I am very sure that many will buy that title.

Edit: I just pre ordered this on Amazon.co.uk. There lies another issue which I am sure drives piracy. The game has been released in the USA a few days back and it is scheduled to be released in the UK on Friday the 25th. Surely there must be a way to get it released in sync some how.

 

Maybe so but I do know of some one who is downloading a copy but they have also pre ordered a physical copy from a website. I guess they are impatient so people like that will still make up the figures.

 

I could say 90%, you could say this, he could say that, who knows really? We cannot assume though that all of the people downloading the game is a lost sale though, it is very over-blown by developers.

 

Fixed that for you.

 

Oh I am so glad your here to fix my mistakes

 

No. Only an insignificant percentage of piraters would buy if not able to pirate; otherwise they do with out.

Game publishers have been showed time and again even their most slick DRM is struck down without batting an eye by pirates. They think they're fighting some new war on the technological front... hah! They fail to see this is an age-old problem and every industry should have learned that lesson since Prohibition. As another user put it: Don't try to stop what can't be stopped. They need to wake up and realize the current efforts are only hurting legitimate users.

 

The answer is, the problem is overblown, of the 6000 people downloading there, even if somehow pirates no longer exist, do you honestly think those 6000 people is actually going to purchase the game? Especially since it's transformer which is SOOOO not one of those lame movie knock off games which are known to suck. I would say at most 100 out of the 6000 who torrented it will ever bother buying the game.

 

6000 people out of 7 billion. Of those 7 bil., it's estimated 5% have a computer. That's 365,000,000 people. If one percent of the computers in the world are for gaming, that gives us-3,650,000 gamers(which we know is way off bc WOW has like 13 mil.). Low estimate I bet. That's like .02% of people downloading that torrent. And you think they only sold a few thousand copies too? They are making money(the manufacturers) or they would stop. Just like any other business. Just my opinion. Now, buy the games. That's all.....!!!!

 

DLC can be pirated and cracked...

 

What can I do? Not much. I'm just one customer, and $50 won't make or break a company.

What can we (the collective of gamers) do? Support publishers who support quality games, and support publishers who take stances against intrusive DRM. Just buy games. The more people who do, the more incentive publishers have to fund quality products, to not push developers to release too soon (a major problem!), and to not take the attitude of "hefty DRM is the only way we can stay in this market; without it, we're leaving and going console-only".

But the biggest question is, what can publishers do? Pirating will happen, and the product quality of a pirated product will often be as good or better than the legitimate version. So they've got two choices, as I see it: patches and support ( not DLC, hopefully; or at least not DLC you have to pay for) that hopefully don't get uploaded. Stardock is famously successful with this method. Alternatively, they can secure their funding in other ways, such as advertisements (someone mentioned, get money for each pirated download - not actually a bad idea to track this and sell the product to advertisers). The problems here will be twofold: working the logistics (tracking downloads accurately), and trying not to lose legitimate buyers. You tread a fine line when you openly acknowledge that pirates will nab your software for free, because you may legitimize pirating in the minds of would-be purchasers, and you may put off purchasers for various reasons (folks don't like advertisements, folks don't like companies who acknowledge thieves...).

The bottom line is still that a quality product will sell itself. Games that are fun by and large get their production money back and then some.

 

Going back to the console pirates xbox live banned something like 150k "modded" consoles right at the release of MW2. And know what alot of those people who owned banned consoles do? They went to a store, bought a new system, pulled it out, packed their old one back in the box and returned it. Believe me ive seen it attempted. Multiple times.

 

At least PC pirates don't profit off it like console pirates?

Eh, this debate will never end.

 

this neverending discussion again.
like skidrow ( i think) says: if you like it, buy it!

thats really the best you can do

 

And I agree with skidrow (one of the top crackers/distributors). If I like a game I'll buy it.

 

and thats why im buying this as soon as its available here, even if i can get it for free, even if i can get it now.
from all ive read this game is a labor of love on the part of the developers. they deserve our money.

 

Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!

 

Can games on steam and that Stardock thing be cracked? maybe thats the only way forward? dam them steam sales! quality games. How about making it like Steam - have they had games cracked/torrented or anything?

 

they can be cracked but they are often buggy and not as "solid" as the real steam version. For instance if you pirated l4d2 or cs:s you wouldn't be able to play on any of the steam servers available to people who bought the game, least I think thats how it is.

I really think steam and battle.net are the only ways pc gaming will work. Nobody will pirate diablo 3 or starcraft 2 when they comes out if they want to play online.

I don't think you can play multiplayer if you pirate the transformers game. Does anybody have the game? How is it? How is online? I really want it, I may download it on steam later on.

 

Yeah i think most games that get pirated are ones that either :

A, only single player
B, Minimal Multi-player
C, Sh*t multi-player

i dont see why they just dont make it so that ALL games use a Steam/Battlenet or such kind of thing it would make it alot more harder for games to be cracked and maybe they could find a way of being able to scan the users Steam account (when they go online) to make sure that all games an content are legit, if not Block them from using steam and make it so that all the games will not work

 

The idea is that, in a world where copyright is quickly losing value, the primary way to success is to sell video games as a service rather than a product. It's obvious that proper enforcement of copyright is impossible in the world as it is today; I think it needs to be heavily modified, or even abolished altogether.

I think it's obvious to everyone that World of Warcraft is very successful, and that's clearly a service, with a monthly fee.

Steam itself is a service rather than a product, and although the prices are once-only fees, the model on which the games themselves are offered is a service model - that's how Steam can get away with dodging the right to first sale.

Server hosting and patches also imply a service model rather than a product model, as well as additional content added to games after release, whether it's paid DLC or free content such as Valve's additions to its games.


The question developers need to ask themselves is this - what service can we provide that pirates won't match? With multiplayer games there are obvious answers, but it's a difficult question for singleplayer games.

 

One thing is for sure. Never let the government intervent with piracy. Let the government's funds be focused on other important economic issues.

Consumers are responsible for piracy and should be their own watchdogs.

There should be a new business model for the gaming industry (same as the film and music industry) - like in-game advertising, to compensate their losses for piracy.

Game companies who want to make a quick buck by making a lousy game surely deserve to be pirated. The only thing wrong about this though is this detracts new companies but will eventually challenge newcomers to be competitive.

For established companies such as Konami, Square-Enix, BioWare who have done a lot of work and research to create high-quality products their games don't deserve to be pirated.

To answer your question "What can we do?" - It's simple. If you like the game, buy it. If you don't, then delete it from your hard drive.

There's a group of kids that have downloaded games from torrent but pledged to buy the games when they can afford it. They buy the games when they're really cheap. At least they can say that they bought the games that they've played. Sort of like, an early consumption-delayed purchase strategy. This is understandable as teens and students don't earn as much as gamers who have jobs.

 

There are problems with services such as that.

If something happens to the main program where it crashes or does not start up or the servers go down or anything else goes wrong then you have no access to your games at all. Many have had issues with Steam doing exactly that. You have hundreds of games that you paid for but you can't play any of them. They contact Steam but are usually just referred to the game developers.

Also people play Steam games that they don't own by using emulation techniques. I don't know how widespread that is or whether it is still in use but the point it, they will always find a way to circumvent all of the protection.

 

I don't see how this is really understandable because gaming is a privilege and not a right. You couldn't do the same in a game store, just walk in and say ''im just picking these games up and I will pay you when I am earning''

Many talk about pirating games because they can't afford it but when it comes down to it, they are talking about it like they are owed something as if it is a right by law.

 

Bottom line is that people that pirate games either:

(A) won't buy the game any way shape or form
(B) think the cost of the game is too high and/or can't afford it

It's about value and assigning appropriate cost to that value. You will never persuade the (A) crowd, so you can't really consider that a lost sale. You can spend money to prevent them from getting your product, but to me that's a futile cause because you're spending money on something that isn't costing them or causing them to lose money.

You need to focus on the (B) crowd and determine what a game is actually worth so that person will actually buy it. Let's face it, college students are a large part of the gaming demographic, and reality is that they don't have a lot of expendable income. I'm sure many of them would like to buy a game, but can't so they pirate it. And others that could afford it don't think it's worth the $50 asking price, are impatient to wait for a sale, so download it. Chances are a good portion of either of these scenarios may end up buying the game when it gets cheap enough though.

Demos may help, but reality is they need a return system. A way to get your money back if the game stinks, bug ridden, whatever, even if there's a tiered return cost. Have it out for one day, 100% money back, 1-3 days, 60% back, 3-5 days 40% back, over 5 days get nothing, etc. I dunno, but something so the customer doesn't feel screwed when the game is a complete letdown for whatever reason.

 

You could add another category to that. Though, i think the demographic is small.

(C) People who aren't sure about the game and want to try it first (when no demo is available) because of limited money to buy games.

 

A lot of people who pirate the game don't even touch the game after they torrent it.

I say this from experience, as I've torrented some games. Most of the ones I've torrented, I don't even play them. I just torrented them to try them out (like a demo), and if it sucked, I never bothered with it again. If I was forced to choose between buying a particular game or not buying it at all, 99.9% of times I just wouldn't bother with it. I don't think torrenting really hurts the gaming industry in any way shape or form. Most pirates don't play the majority of games they download, and the games that do get played at times get bought. I've know MANY pirates who have done this, myself included. In fact, if it wasn't for torrents, I would've never discovered how great Mass Effect was, and yes, I bought it and am planning to get ME3. If I never torrented ME1, I would've never even spent a single cent on the game. That's an example of how torrenting is actually HELPING to gaming industry.

6000 torrenters does not mean 6000 lost sales (I HATE COMPANIES WHO THINK THIS IS TRUE), and you can't really do anything to stop it. If the game is great, then it will get paying customers from pirates. If it sucks, it won't get any money that people were lured in to pay.

 

I wouldn't say torrenting doesn't hurt the game industry at all, but it definitely hurts the game industry a lot less than the game industry claims it does Your point that piracy sometimes results in legitimate sales from people that wouldn't have bought the game otherwise is a valid one, though.

The problem is that the impact of piracy is essentially impossible to measure, because we can't set up a world without piracy as a comparison point. However, it doesn't really matter that much what things would be like without piracy, because it isn't going away.

 

Just purchased transformers on steam, can't wait to play it, looks so freaking awesome. In the past I have torrented singleplayer games and a few multiplayer games. Here is what I did after I torrented a few specific games.

Bioshock 2: hated it after the 3rd level deleted it off my computer
Borderlands: Loved it, loved multiplayer, loved everything about it, immediately purchased it and all the dlc that was available.
Dragon Age: Same story as borderlands
Mirrors edge: same story as previous 2


Games I buy directly without torrenting them first are usually multiplayer, steam, or battle.net games. Games I am not sure about I usually end up torrenting and if I don't like it, I delete it and if I do like it I buy it. That may not be the right thing to do, but isn't it better than not buying the game at all? For instance, I would have never purchased borderlands if I hadn't played it and seen how fun it is. I like my games to run perfectly without any issues so I end up buying every game I like and play a lot and the games I don't like just get deleted. Just saying I usually don't torrent any games anymore, as I identify most of them to be crappy console ports and don't want anything to do with them.

 

^
This.
It's exactly what I'm talking about. It shows that torrenting can, in fact, help the industry.

 

Torrenting can help the industry. This is true.

Torrenting does not currently help the industry, when the entire market of PC gamers is taken into consideration.

Regardless of the above two facts, sharing will continue to happen.

These are the facts that publishers have to face. They're currently obsessed with fact 2. They will have to face facts 1 and 3 if the industry is to survive. I believe that Stardock's Gamers' Bill of Rights, as well as their approach to DRM with GalCiv2, is a method of facing fact 1 (and, indeed, a successful way, at least for now). But that method can only go so far (it wouldn't have worked if GalCiv2 was a run-of-the-mill game, it would not work if every publisher used the same approach, etc.).

 

I think developers create a pc title knowing full well its gonna get stolen, there sales def are on the consoles, with the premium for 59 to 69 a game. They probably discard any sales the pc version gets in the first place. or like an earlier user said, release the full game on a disc, you can install it and blah blah but certain features need a pass, like battlefield, Offer the code online for a fee , and bam half the problem solved. The instore price of the game can be cut by lets say half, attracting some piraters to atleast pick up the game for dirt cheap, even offer the code instore or something. Atleast they'd make a bit of money off of it. Is it possible to pirate steam games? Just curious because I dont have steam.

 

thats the main problem that i was thinking at the end of the day i think we just dont have the technology to stop piracy - we will one day but at the moment theres just nothing that can be done, you can use DRM and give the Pirates an excuse as well as pissing off those that brought the game or could go all the way and have no DRM everyone is happy but then more easily pirated

 

I am telling you pc gaming won't die anytime soon, valve and blizzard are here to stay.

 

I can't say we ever will, short of a totalitarian state. As anti-piracy technology gets better, so does piracy technology.

 

If Valve (a company now dabbling in console ports and cash-cow schemes a la full-game-priced DLC) and Blizzard (a company willfully desecrating a once-great game into a DRM, region-locked, LAN-lagfest carried over Battle.NOT) are the only things holding up PC gaming for you, well I have news for you... PC gaming is already dead. Everything you see now are merely nervous twitches from the occasional shock-paddle. Perhaps the time to care was around EA-Westwood, etc era. But in today's industry, where plans for genuinely good games are either axed or ported, where top "leaders" are notorious for their contempt of the industry, and where the majority of consumers are oblivious to their own exploitation and ignorantly encourage the production of low-quality games, there's nothing much left to hope for.

 

Piracy cannot be stopped.

Yes, companies have every right to try in vain.

Torrenting and other p2p distribution methods are the future (at least until some new tech comes around). Find a way to make it part of your business model. As technology evolves, business models should evolve.

 

Say what you will about Valve, Portal 2 looks like it's going to be a great game. Natural Selection 2 is another game that should be quite big. People I know have said that NS2 alone could hold up their PC gaming for the next few years. Sure, those two games might be coming to console, but the developers are focusing on the PC, and the real community will be centered there as well. There's also a lot of indie games on the PC platform that I'd say are well worth the bother.

 

Piracy wont die as long as there will be "poor" people OR people who thinks that paying $50 for a game is unjustifiable.

AS others have stated if the game is good buy it.

AS for the numbers....

From that 6000 persons dloading it. 1 or at least 100 more of that will leak into a piracy merchant and that in turn will also sell MORE than 6000 BUT not all of those should be considered a lost sale.