What went wrong with the 7970m's

I'm an EE guy and I take interest in these things so I was just curious if anyone knows or has heard word of what went wrong with the 7970m's.

 

Well, I know there are Xfire not optimizing Arkham City but that's about it.

 

^Yeah I heard about there being problems with CF not being that much better than the single card. Although, games are sometimes developed keeping a GPU manufacturer in mind (money, anyone?) and I don't find it surprising that it does better with nvidia. There's some that are sponsored by AMD as well and they do better with AMD GPUs. I don't know if that's the problem with AC.

I also heard that if Enduro was used, frame rates were significantly lower for some games and a little bit (~3-8 fps) higher for some others.

But I was talking about the recent delays. Where did AMD or TSMC screw up? I doubt anyone would know, especially this early, but I was just curious. Besides, got nothing to do until the new laptop ships

 

Perhaps you could clarify what you're asking about? As far as I know, the 7970m is the most powerful mobile GPU yet released, and may hold that title until the next generation of chips comes out from AMD and Nvidia. I assume, therefore, that you're referring to something specific, but you simply imply that something went wrong without saying what the symptoms are that made you think there's something wrong with them.

Edit: Too late.

 

Maybe he is talking about the supposed recalling?

 

Yes I assumed that the delay was on everyone's minds. Obviously I assumed wrong.

 

Hadn't heard anything. In general, you want to actually say what you're referring to instead of just assuming everybody knows what you're talking about.

 

Yeah I`m curious what happend to the 7970Ms too. The cores melted?

Enduro is a mess too. Lower performance with the 7970M with Enduro enabled, 60% of the 19 games tested it didn`t reckognize as demanding so it continued to use the IGP. So much for that epic video AMD made about Enduro. So far behind Nvidia Optimus

 

So what happened? I have one on order.

 

Its hard to compare the way that enduro and optimus detect a game, since both are terrible at it. And AMD made it worse than bacon.

However to lose performance when using enduro is just plain stupid, that must be a powerplay measure that is interefering, since the drivers that were shipped with the m17x r4 are so old and the CCC as well, I should expect it to be better in the coming releases

But I havent heard anything about a recall

 

It appears that there are two “issues” with the 7970s: one apparently with demand planning and allocations, while the other appears to be a technological issue found within the second batch of cards that were shipped. Both seem to be exclusive to Clevo at the moment (which is why no one outside of the Clevo / Sager section knows anything about these issues). The demand planning issue (as explained to me by the nice folks at Mythlogic) was that Clevo didn’t anticipate quite so much demand for the 7970. So I am guessing smaller outfits (like Mythlogic) are still waiting on their first batch to arrive, while the larger Sager and their resellers managed to get a first shipment and are actually sending out laptops. I have no clue what the technological issue is that caused problems with the second batch, as I have yet to see anyone post any information about it (other than that there is recall).

At least, this is what I think is going on. Hopefully someone smarter than me can chime in with better information.

 

Enduro is not working right currently. It is best to disable the integrated graphics when using a 7970m. It is currently a requirement in m17x R3's to disable the integrated graphics if using a 7970m

PS...optimus wasn't that great either but at least you didn't lose performance when in performance GPU mode. The problem with optimus (at least in the Alienwares) was that it was fickle and had a hard time deciding when to use integrated vs performance gpu. Enduro needs more work, so integrated graphics is shutoff in my laptop until more mature drivers come

Are you sure it's only an issue with the clevo cards right now? I haven't heard anything about issues with 7970's in Dell's

 

Based on what I have pieced together, it is currently just an issue with the Clevo cards. BUT that doesn't mean that Dell won't experience the same problem. Of course, just because Clevo appears to have a problem doesn't mean that Dell will have one, too.

So for right now, it is only the Clevo folks with laptops on order that are running around with their hair on fire (sadly of which I am one of them).

 

That sucks bro! Hopefully they sort it all out soon

 

basilios are you upgrading from 9800m gt on sli to a 7970m. You will notice a huge leap in performance and not waste anymore electricity to get that performance in fact you should get 30-50w less and perform around 3x as powerful as your 9800m gt on sli.

I reckon amd tried to release it early but maybe are having problems on making lots of them to the standard they want it.

 

No one even knows what was meant by "issue". Instead, we're running with it and assuming the cards had fatal flaws, when it could've been something very simple and easy to rectify.

 

@ slick that was exactly what I said, gaming detection is terrible on both, but AMD managed to launch a product (enduro) with less refinement than what they had, not that bacon was good, it was terrible.

Yeah that diminished performance while using it, is just plain... awful. Worst thing that I saw this year, and I saw the USB 3 dock that lenovo launched, just plain stupid.

 

i think the biggest issue is supply. As far as fatal flaws go, Dell is usually very quick to pull products off the shelf if there are indeed problems (just like they did with the initial sandy bridge launch)...but they are still shipping the 7970m in volume.

ya bro! you're 100% correct. i liked the manual graphics switching i had with my 6990m. I liked the ability to decide when to go to integrated and when to use the 6990. however, I completely dislike both optimus and enduro, but it looks like that is all we have now. <sigh>

 

Enduro is as horrid as the first revision of Optimus. :3
That feature wont work on my Clevo P170HMx so i dont mind.

 

I prefer to just manually switch graphics on my M17x R4. Other than the 30 seconds it takes to switch, it's hassle-free.

 

@Slick: Thanks. I am starting to look at Alienware again. Maybe if I can haggle down the price and then get my own RAM and SSD, I might switch over. Jury is still out.

@Nissangtr786: Yep, starting to have issues with my 9800s, so it is time for a new rig. I got three years out of her, though. And, I only spent about $1400 on her at the time (Dell either made a mistake, or was trying to liquidate inventory, and had the system listed for a ridiculously low price).

@Kevin & Slick: Bingo. AFAIK, no one knows what happened with the second batch (or at least those who do know haven’t said anything yet). Like Kevin said, it very well could be some minor issue. Of course, this being the Internet and all…well, see my “hair on fire” line.

 

I do hope we get official drivers for the 7970m cf.

 

I just went and priced out an m17x and I can't believe something so ugly costs so much.

 

Most AW users didn't buy their units based on the posted website price. You got to talk to a sales rep and get the base model and upgrade it yourself for less.

But let's get back to the topic.

 

This is on topic since the only reason I looked at uglienware was because I can't get a sager anytime soon with a 7970m in it.

Who should I talk to about getting a better price on one?

 

You should read this if you really want to consider this ugly laptop.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware/456885-aw-dell-ordering-advice-how-save.html

 

lol...

m3n00b, you never buy at website pricing...the simplest thing to do is order through a reseller and get at least 10% off

the last big promotion for alienware was through the AAFES program where many people who qualified bought fully loaded m17x R4's with 7970m's and 3720 Ivy's for ~$1250 shipped

But even at that price, why would you get a laptop that was ugly?

 

No, you can't really upgrade the Dell XP m1730

 

Thanks!

Because I need one.

 

Here is the performance with 7970M with Enduro enabled.

 

and that is why you want to turn off your integrated graphics so Enduro doesn't happen lol

 

Well that sucks. Probably not for everyone, but for me if I owned 7970M. Some kind of graphic switching is a must for my next notebook

 

on Alienware m17x R4's, you have FN+F7 to switch graphics.

I had this on my R3 with the 6990m, but until we get official driver support, I don't have this capability, so integrated goes off for the time being

 

To that end, still no word on what the issue is. From what I have been able to glean from this thread, it appears the problem was an AMD manufacturing issue. No clue what exactly the issue was, though. So as Kevin suggested earlier, it could be something very minor.

I guess if you really want to follow it in all its gory detail, jump over to the Sager / Clevo thread and enjoy the hue and cry. Well, mostly crying now.

 

I've been doing some testing of Enduro on my M17x R4 and I'm not seeing any appreciable decrease in performance. 3DMark Vantage is slightly lower while running the integrated graphics, but 3DMark 11 is identical. Gaming performance appears to be the same also. The thing is that, as far as I know, you can't overclock the GPU while running it alongside the integrated. Well, I guess you could do modded VBIOS, but that's not very flexible.

So is this mainly a Clevo 7970M problem?

3DMark Vantage, integrated graphics ON:


3DMark Vantage, integrated graphics OFF:


3DMark 11, integrated graphics ON:


3DMark 11, integrated graphics OFF:

 

lol somehow enduro got the better score in 3DM11... showing that it's not the most accurate benchmark on how GPUs actually perform.

 

I'd say that's within the margin of error.

What games have a built-in benchmarking tool so I can test this further? I don't want to do manual runs since that can introduce errors.

 

world in conflict, shogun 2 (settings 10k men battle, zoomed in and zoomed out fps)

 

What about Crysis? What is that CPU and GPU benchmark they got on notebookcheck? Or is that some separate add on you gotta buy?

 

It can`t be since notebookcheck tested the ALIENWARE.

Try some games instead of that synthetic crap. As you can see from the pictures I posted, not all games had the decrease either. Some without decrease, some -2%, some -15% etc

 

Hmz perlin noise (feature 6 and one that takes a big hit) is a heavy maths test, I guess there is mismanagement of the PCI-e bus leading to larger delays in communication.

 

I'm not having any problems with my 7970M(M17X R4) and I dont think hitting FN + F7 to switch to the dedicated graphics is a big deal. I kind of like being able to choose which i want to use. The intel 4000 is actually playable if you lower the rez and detail in most games. All in all I think AMD has done an outstanding job getting a product to market that you cant get from any other company.

 

Alright, I got carried away with the Crysis benchmark. Here are the results, which speak for themselves. The 7970M can clearly underperform while the integrated graphics are on.



As long as you turn off the integrated graphics, you'll be good to go. This way, you can also overclock for a nice boost. Oh and I had the settings at 1080p, 8x MSAA, Very High on everything.

 

Ouch thats like over 20% reduction, yeah AMD have work to do.
Enduro isn`t much useful automatic as it is now

 

That kinda rings hollow with me while I wait for my Sager that has a 7970 back ordered with AMD until after June 8. Guess I should change my sig.

 

^ +1 on that

 

Well, I just ran the free version of 3DMark11 on the NP9170 that is spec'd in my sig, and received a score of P5640. Obviously with Enduro on, since there is no way to turn the freaking thing off on a Clevo/Sager machine, apparently.

This obviously takes CPU performance into account, and I'm thinking that this could account for the variance between my score and the one that GTRagnarok got on his M17x R4, which is running on a i7-3720QM as opposed to my i7-3610QM? I'm hoping that's the case, as it would be upsetting to think that it just scores lower because of some Clevo-related problem.

 

The P core is useless., because the faster CPU factors into the score.

What is your GPU score?

 

Kaworu, doesn't your question contain the answer ? You have Enduro on therefore lower performance.

 

The jury is still out on whether Enduro affects the GPU performance in the Clevo, or if it's just an M17x issue, so we can't jump to conclusions yet.