What went wrong with the 7970m's

Well we do not have proper fps scores for the Clevo's yet. Hence I preferred to say it as an Alienware fps issue. I do have some fps scores from one of the users in another thread and it seems they kind of match with the Enduro ON score rather than the Enduro OFF scores. I have also asked an Alienware user to cross verify those scores with Enduro ON and OFF and hopefully this will clear things out.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...isable-enduro-7970m-clevo-p150em-170em-8.html

The reason why this could have been an Alienware - Enduro issues was because the Alienware use the Dell card with of course different drivers (03/07/2012, 8.934.2.0000) and the Clevo uses a different driver (03/29/2012, 8.951.6.0000). If the Clevo is unaffected then the issue might lie with the Dell drivers. But as for now nothing is still confirmed.

 

The Alienware uses the Dell card with different drivers. Also Enduro can be turned OFF in the Alienware but not in the Sager/Clevo.

 

so the even though enduro with dell drivers seem to decrease performance, clevo drivers seem to run it a little better.

 

Judging by video 2 it seems like a completely pointless feature.

I don't know of anyone who uses demanding apps or run games on battery. Everyone I know plugs into AC when they need to get the best performance.

 

Hey Mavrick

Don't know if your question's been fully, finally and satisfactorily answered yet, even though I've been through the whole thread!

My understanding is that the recall for the Clevo cards was down to Clevo's supplier of a voltage or current converter. It's actually nothing to do with AMD's hardware, as has already been pointed out.

The defect lead to a high number of black screen crashes. I don't know what % of machines this effected.

Now, my interprotation of this information:

The converters were pushing too much juice into the cards, frying the AMD chip. The laptops refuse (for some reason) to start from the integrated cards alone, (according to rep's from Malibal) and you just get a bit of whirring and a black screen, hence why I think the chip has been fried.

My guess as to the reason for the voltage regulators being at fault is that they may have been set to carry a higher than normal voltage so people could over clock the cards, allowing Clevo machines to come out higher when OC'ing, but they weren't given the correct stock voltages. Hence, too much current hitting the card, hence fried cards, hence black screens.

Wether the cards are actually dead or it is just the bios shutting them down to protect the cards, I don't know - mostly what I'm running on here, after the 3rd paragraph, is guesswork, and laymans guesswork at that.

But, of I'm right with the above, Clevo's voltage regulator supplier will have had to go back and remake all of the regulators to the original spec. And AMD may also have to remake the chips as well.

Que much gnashing of teeth and pain for Clevo resellers. Including myself.

 

Basically they are saying the same as optimus... So I don't know where you got your idea from.

 

Well, I hope that they will sort it out soon. I have ordered it, and I'm still waiting .

If I keep hearing bad news, I guess I have to cancel it.

 

yikes what a mess

I'm running my 7970 on 8.97, but unfortunately, I own a last gen M17x r3 so we've had to shutoff the integrated graphics to run the 7970m, so i can't speak to Enduro issues. I don't think there will be proper enduro support for at least several driver releases. I remember when optimus was first released, it wasn't very good either. We just have to wait for it to mature

 

The chip will draw whatever current it needs, it's more the voltage levels you have to worry about.

It could be any part of the controller, the voltage levels could be unstable, it could be giving spikes or its too low.

Or simply the logic in the controller of a batch is broken and it just stops working causing the card to crash.

 

Cool, thanks for explaining Meaker. And Slick, you're right - a real pain in the a@&.

 

Can you guys confirm if Clevo is supporting next gen cards (i.e., 7970m + 680m) in the previous HM series laptops? I really hope what i heard was wrong

 

The 675m is powerful but compared to a 7970m its nowhere near as good. Put it this way the 675m is a power hungry card. The 7970m sips power compared to the 675m and some bencharmks its 80-100% better like dx11.

Its like someone buying a 9800m gtx over a 6970m taking out dx11 out of the equation. I find it crazy that people get the 670m or 675m.

 

The last I heard NO. They arent. But not sure of the developments. The BIOS of the HM models do not seem to support the newer cards.

Kingpinzero has started a thread to to voice the concerns of all HM owners as supposedly he received information from Clevo and also from several resellers that the HM models have been put officially in EOL state.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...ion-bios-updates-clevo-hm-model-series-2.html

Eurocom also seemed to have mentioned in their post that they are not able to get the POST to run in the HM models with the new cards.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m17x/658084-amd-7970m-available-buy-163.html

 

I did not say purchase the 675m INSTEAD of the 7970m. I said it you CANNOT then go for the next best thing. I ALSO said that one can always upgrade. Right now, I have a window until mid July. In July, I can game on it. After that, I cannot. I would rather get the 675m and play on it than wait until after August to get my 7970m (I will be out of the country in July for a while). There's several others like me out there with their own problem and windows for when they need the laptop. Also, power is immaterial to a person who purchases a gaming laptop. IMO, it is pointless to quibble about 17W when you are purchasing something that has a 230W power brick. May be nv screwed may be they didn't. I don't know. What I do know is that the 675m is available NOW and the 7970m isn't. And if I want my laptop in the next month, I would rather go with nv and upgrade next year than wait.

 

I don't know. Some things there seem a bit fishy. Stock voltages are controlled by the BIOS right? If the VRs were chosen so as to allow better OC'ing, the stock voltages could easily be set correctly in BIOS. If that is true, then the current is not an issue. Electronics draw as much current as they need, not as much as is "supplied". Current isn't supplied. It is drawn based on voltage. If your voltage is higher, more current is drawn and fries the chips. But if the votage is set correctly (setting the right voltage, imo, shouldn't have taken over a week), the current drawn will be what is needed, not excess to fry the chips.

 

That comparison is apples to oranges. The only thing you are bringing into this is power, again and again. Power is immaterial, especially if it is on the order or a few watts, to a gamer. The 675m still outperforms every mobile GPU released except the 7970m. Now if you go to notebookcheck and see WHERE the 675m outperforms, it is the places where you have fps in the lower teens and the 7970m boosts them to a little under 30. To me, 40fps and 60fps is the same. To many others as well. To some, it is not and they can wait for the 7970m. If I get a boost from 15fps to 25 fps, well and good. Which the 7970m does for Metro 2033. BF3, it is better with 16xAF and 4xMSAA which i do not use. I DO use the next best setting on there, where the frame rate goes up to 40fps, which is good enough for me.

If power is really all you got, then to a gamer, like I said, that is a non-issue.

 

According to notebookcheck there is like a 60w difference on stress test between a 675m and a 7970m. My laptop fully loded gaming takes 71w.

I would wait rather that then buy a 2 and a half year old technology. Its like someone buying a qx6700 over an i7 3770k. That is basically the difference performance per watt then the 7970m and 675m.

 

So using your logic you would prefer the fat ps3 over the latest slim ps3 nm wise as it doesn't matter about power or weight or slimmer profile. http://www.ps3news.com/playstation-...-half-the-power-of-fat-playstation-3-console/

Thats basically the difference the fat ps3 to the latest one power consumption wise for same performance.

edit: You make this point about a 675m outperforming lots of cards but reaility is a lot of 50w card this year or next year will outperform your 675m.

 

Performance/watt is waaaay better on the 7970M, but stop painting a wrong picture like the 7970M is "sipping" power

 

17w is the entire consumption of some cards or cpus. Its your ocing headroom too.

 

"measured at the wall" - this means it is the power consumption for the whole system, really not that meaningful. Not even as comparison between two cards. Did the testing systems at least have the same CPU model, RAM etc. in them?
This graph is really misleading, it implies that that's the consumption of only the card, which is totally wrong.

 

You can`t measure the GPU draw at the wall can you? No you can`t, so the graph isn`t misleading imo.

Tomshardware tested the two GPUs with the same notebook. Exacly same hardware except GPU. So the difference in power draw is the GPU difference after doing a simple substraction, no?

Yeah there are probably a lot more accurate ways doing it than this though

 

Look those who want to wait for the 7970ms with bad Enduro drivers and apparently a MUCH lower power consumption, can wait. I do not want to wait. And I would prefer nv reliability.

However, calling someone crazy just because he or she purchases something that came out less than a year ago is plain stupid.

Oh and yet again, do not come back with another apples to oranges comparison. Your ps3 comparison was completely irrelevant. Slimness? The GPUs form factor in a notebook is, again, irrelevant because i don't even SEE my GPU except may be thrice a year when I clean out the insides for dust.

EDIT: People don't even now much about the GTX680m but you apparently even know about next gen GPUs that require....what was it....50 watts and outperform the GTX 675m? Other than the high end flagships, no GPU can outperform even the 485m from two years ago, much less outperform last year's flagship. The 6970 barely matches up to the 485m. 50W cards outperforming the 675 lol.

 

Sounds like demand is too high for the cards and they wont be able to ship them on time. Eurocom isn't a trustworthy company anyway.

 

^ Really? Hmm. Didn't know that. I haven't heard much about them. Xotic and Myth are the two I have heard about a lot around here.

 

That sucks bro! That sucks for all the people that bought Sager laptops within the last year and they can't update the vid card. Do i smell a defection to the darkside coming soon?

I find this really surprising as people are installing 7970m's into 4 year old Alienware M15x's.

Someone has to slap Clevo across the head a few times so they WAKE UP!

 

Especially when the HM models are what 1 - 1.5 yrs old? That main idea of getting a Clevo is the option to upgrade the same on your own. No wonder this decision has so many agitated in this forum. I am sure it is terribly irritating to know that the best GPU as for now (7970m) would not work in their 1 - 1.5 yrs old rig. The HM models were in sale up until Feb if I am not wrong. Even early March I remember seeing them still available at Malibal. 2 months down the lane EM models with ivy bridge and the 7970m are here and we are talking about the HM models being EOL? Seems like Clevo wants us to get a new laptop every time a new GPU is released or more specifically every time they refresh their models. Makes me wonder what would be the fate of the EM models currently running

 

So what stops the skillfull people in this forum in making a BIOS that support 7970M themselves? Is it difficult?

 

Sighs...i understand your pain. i hope that clevo/sager fixes things. If not, there will be a mass defection to the darkside

You can't. Speaking with Mythlogic, if you plug a 7970m into a last gen Clevo, you get less than 5 mins before the EC shuts the computer down. It gets an incorrect temp reading from the vid card, thinks it is overheating and shuts the computer down. i don't know if the embedded controller is programmable in the clevos and from what i gather its locked down

 

A few ppl have taken up the initiative but not sure how far they are planning to go. A user called Prema seems to be eager to do something about it

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...ition-bios-updates-clevo-hm-model-series.html

 

Cool. Prema is a nice guy and he knows his stuff.

 

well, you guys definitely should. I'd be pissed if i bought a p170 HM 2 months ago and find out that i can't upgrade the vidcard...not because of compatibility of the MXM slot, but because of some Clevo specific programming in the bios

 

Well I havent bought mine yet. I have ordered a NP9170 from Xoticpc but its stuck with the 2nd shipment that was returned back due to issues

But I feel what they are doing is right. They have every right to ask Clevo to update the BIOS at least.

 

I was told by Myth that their nv GPUs are upgradeable as long as the MXM revision does not change, even on their Clevo builds. The AMD ones depends on something which I didn't quite get.

 

Nvidia probably have exclusive rights for future BIOS code from Clevo
No seriously, thats sad. Not much choice for the user then.

 

Either ways, any time Nvidia wants to make more money, they simply change the MXM revision......it is controlled by them, after all.

 

MXM revision has already changed from 3.0 to 3.1, but apparently it's backward compatible.

 

Hi people's I'm the one who started the petition along the whole mess.
I see that you guys owns different brands from us, but we could use all the help we can get.
If you feel that we've got the right for being pissed beyond human control please help us by join the petition, sign and spread the word.
Sorry if I hijacked the thread it wasn't my intention but Clevo seriously screwed up for good this time.
Enough of this, I'm sick of being used.
And most certainly the EM users will face the same doom next year, and if not probably all the ranting about this HM scandal helped them someway.
Thanks again.

 

MXM I believe are not compatible across generations. So 3.x and 2.x are not compatible but 3.0 and 3.1 are. The only difference between the two are max power and the memory bus.

 

you have my support KingPin. I'll try rally up some support for you as I think its horrible. HM is good for one year? and no upgrade path? I'm signing up.

 

Thanks a lot mate, I appreciate it alot.
The more, the better. At this point it's a matter of letting customers heard in order to not make this happen again.
I know that this probably will not lead us anywhere, but I want to fight. Whatever it takes..

 

^ Signed it . My reasons are two fold - 1) I don't want to go through the same fate and 2) Clevo is a smaller company. I don't want it to become completely profit oriented like some others. That would be sad. BTW, Mythlogic's systems are upgradeable on nv GPUs provided the MXM version is the same. So all 3.x GPUs are upgradeable regardless of what Clevo says.

 

I've signed the petition KingPin. Let me know if there is anything else I can do.

i hope Clevo is reading this post. This forum is responsible for a ton of clevo sales...and we can influence either way. It would be in their best interest to support future vid cards into the HM's. Calling it EOL and not supporting it is not acceptable. the HM's were on sale like what? 1 month ago?

You can say this or that about Alienware, but people are installing 7970's into ancient m15x's that are well over 3-4 yrs old...

 

thats if clevo will provide a (legal) BIOS to run the future upgrade cards.

 

^ I don't think the 7970ms are compatible with the MXM 2.1 slots in the Mx15s . But I get what you mean. The point of the MXM standard is lost if Clevo drops support after a year/year and half.

 

Double post.

 

M15x is mxm 3.0 type B

 

at least 2 people i know have the 7970m in the m15x...For example, SVL7, and table21. i wasnt kiddin lol

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m15x/658295-7970m-m15x-why-yes.html

 

The voltage is fine, the problem is the pcb manufacturer used too cheap of components to supply the current (at specified voltage) for the GPU in question. Not a big surprise, always someone trying to cut corners. The cards as they are now may work for a period of time, but if they have those 'cheap' vrm components the card WILL fail. Xotic is saying in several threads that the first batch of cards are not affected, however if they are indeed using the same components then they are affected just the same.

 

I wonder if people tried it on the M17x R2.