What would it take to make a Mini-PCIe graphics card?

The title says all really. Let's suppose that one had an adequate supply of say, the ION2 netbook edition chip, and supposing there was someway to solder the board together, etc, what would it take to DESIGN it? I mean, how hard would it be to interface said ION2 chip to the PCIe bus? A lot of people say it isn't worth the effort, but I disagree. For one, it could be used as a more capable version of the Broadcom CrystalHD. Also, putting aside light gaming, I'm sure there are many applications where some GPGPU power might be helpful (I believe photoshop has GPU acceleration?) People also say heat considerations, but I think the ION2 netbook version runs without a fine, it should be fine.

I've seen the thread on the DIY ViDock...just think if the the the next step could be realized!

 

An act of God. I think it would be easier to split the seas than to do that miracle.

 

I think anything that would fit on such a small board would be weaker than intel graphics. Otherwise you're looking at a pretty big heatsink that wont really fit inside your notebook. But I would still like to see it.

 

Lol, most of the GPU packages are larger then the board.

However there are some specialised chips for embedded systems with the memory chips on the GPU package. If you were willing to spend the money on highend power componants and make the board a bit larger (for those with space around the slot) then you could perhaps do it.

You would still need to design and create your own PCB, get a bios from ATI/nvidia along with the equipment to mount the BGA chip.

 

NVIDIA ION 2 netbook benchmarked

Well I did some research, and apparently, ION2 already uses PCIe, electronically, to connect to the processor, so really, this shouldn't be so hard after all! Well the hard part will be finding the chips, and soldering them to the board

 

Designing and creating a multi layer PCB along with power system is not easy either.

Especially considering like I said the GPU package size is larger than a PCIE 1x card in width.

 

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/medium/2008/12/nvidia-ion-2.JPG

There's a picture of it I believe, it doesn't look bigger than a mini-pcie card (granted, I'm only guessing how big those are) but I do have a deplorable sense of perspective so I could be wrong.

 

Picture doesn't work... but anyway, I think you really underestimate what a complex task it is to create something...

And in addition to this, I think heat would be a big issue, unless it really improved since the first gen ION... they run pretty hot!!

 

http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u69/Nvidia_Ion.png
Does that one work?

Anyhow, if you read the wikipedia page on the ION2, there is a so called "netbook" version, that has half the shaders and is clocked slower. I imagine this is the one we would be interested in. I suppose this is to reduce the size and heat dissipation. I believe this would be easier however, as cited above, because the ION2 is designed to use PCIe on an electronic level, so the board is merely interfacing it (normally I guess it's just connected directly to the PCIe controller).

 

Regardless, Meaker, do you have an example of one of these higher end components? Do you mean like something from PowerVR?

 

It won't matter. There won't be a way to connect the card to the display without redoing the machine, and there's not enough bandwidth to push the display back along the pcie bus. You just won't have a minipcie gpu, period.

 

What would be the point exactly? Anything you could fit on there would be so poor as to be useless.

 

I mean a full card is only 3cm wide.

A DVI port is 3.7cm wide, you can clearly see the package on that GPU is wider than that.

Therefore you cant even mount the GPU core on a mini-pcie card.

So:

A) It's not electically compatable.
B) It's not physically compatable.

 

Well the problems cited with not being able to push the display back onto the screen...what about with the DIY ViDocK? I know performance takes a hit, but I've seen instances of it being done

 

Yep, there is a thread in this section called DIY vidock experiences, its not too complicated and there are ways to get with full performance and on internal display.

This and this... making an actual mpci-e graphics card much less useful than an add2 card for the manufacturer who can choose a compatible chipset.

Oh, and they exist. Mainly used for embedded systems.

Older mpci actually do have graphics cards but they are full height, I think they were for servers.

 

Well let's speak hypothetically, just for a moment, because I am curious. Let's suppose heat, space, power, etc were not issues. I know they, but just assume they aren't. How complicated would interfacing the ION2 to the Mini-PCIe slot be? For instance, it could be built into an external box with it's own fan, using the ExpressCard slot to interface, like a ViDock but more portable. That's all I want to know, how hard would that be? As I said, according to my research the ION2 already uses the PCI protocol electronically to talk to the processor, so theoretically all that's need is a physical adapter correct?

 

The expresscard slot is limited to 1.3A/3.3V. 4.3W of power, so you need more power from somewhere else if you want to drive a video chip. Acer's ATI XGP used a mobile HD5830 to cut power down. Nevertheless it still needs external power to drive it.

I'd suggest have a look at a portable DIY ViDock setup like this, but find the smaller single-slot fanless desktop video card like a $20.AR HD5450. Use a $65 PE4L-EC2C + $10 12V/60W AC adapter to drive it. Put it all in the smallest enclosure and you have your portable setup. Don't even require an external LCD if use the Optimus (4500MHD or Intel HD primary gfx only) or Ultramon/Chung-gun setups.

 

The main problem with the DIY ViDock is that the ExpressCard is now defunct. So anything you make for your current laptop will only work with your current laptop and won't be compatible with machines in the future.

There's just no good way to improve a laptop's graphics. The only real option left is a USB3 graphics card of some sort, which is the only common bus that might support that kind of bandwidth any more.

 

It says its being handled by the USB forum instead, so not really dead.

 

It actually is not "defunct." Yes, it is not coming on every single laptop like it used to, but it is still available now and for the foreseeable future.

 

It's weird, my machine has the traces for one, but no hole in the casing or connector =/

 

Not really, wouldn't call it a problem. Thats only relevant if you really don't want to use the mpci-e slot method which has better bandwidth anyway.

I think we could speak realistically. Something I've been thinking about is how an HP mezzanine server board which essentially uses MXM over PCI-E could be used with some of the DIY vidock.
MXM could very realistically be used in a 12.5mm thick space of a DVD drive.
This is something I believe we can legitimately work on and get functional.

 

How would you cool it though? You could probably fit an MXM card in there but no room for effective cooling.