Protip: if you know you're going somewhere without internet access, back up your Steam games to an external hard drive or DVD's. Steam has an integrated backup feature specifically designed for that, and you can even specify how big you want each backup file to be, so you can fit it on separate DVD's, CD's, or all in one on an external drive. Then, when you get there, just plug in your drive or pop in the first disk and let it restore.
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The one thing I truly hate about Steam is having to run my games through the Steam interface. I hate it. -
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I am happy with the OP's thread, a very good topic with responses. Many sections have been covered so I would not repeat them, but I will add these points to the table:
1) A first step is to stop endorsing piracy. No matter how 'sugar coated' or 'in the name of justice' type of reason is given. Piracy is the cause for DRM (as we know it today), not viceversa. So in my opinion even the 'testing' response is not even closely justified.
2) Return policy. This is a real issue that somehow has to be fixed, I can't believe buying a game falls in the same section as underwear and wines!! Maybe if somehow when returning the game, it can be traced and ensured it has been deleted from the computer a good return policy may be at hand.
3) Demos. With so many game out it is hard to decide on which one you want to invest, and even if there are tons of reviews a good demo (or some benchmarking utility) is always welcomed. -
And, it is stealing, no matter how you want to "word" it, you are obtaining property that is not rightfully yours, be it a license, download, etc...
Like I said, I don't want to argue, and if you truly buy the games, great, but most won't, and YOU help them steal the games. And that makes me upset because I love the games, but who will bother to develop games for the PC if there's no money in it because we will just buy one copy and all share it? -
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The whole argument that the developer doesn't lose anything due to piracy is nonsense. It doesn't take a measured financial loss for something to be considered theft.
Take for example if I went into Best Buy and took a $1000 television. Say that I knew exactly how much BB paid for the TV ($800) and left that amount at the register. I would be ludicrous for me to say that I didn't steal the TV because BB didn't suffer a financial loss on the deal. -
The difference with the example you cite is that someone ultimately looses something in the process (i.e., the store looses the TV). There was no agreed trade, thus it amounts to theft. This doesn't apply with piracy because there is no loss of product on behalf of the seller. This isn't my opinion - there is even a legal distinction for this (copyright infringment).
Don't get me wrong, I do not think piracy is justified under any circumstances. Indeed, no-one has an inherient right to anything. But recognising this distinction doesn't necessarily imply a person is a pirate.
Some people may consider this to be mere semantics, but it has huge implications in a legal context, in terms of guaging damages and liability. You can't sue someone for damages and loss of income, because there has been no loss to speak of, and nothing to prove that there would have been a sale if the piracy had not taken place. What you can sue a person for is infringement. -
NAVY SEALS
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The over-riding theme here is quit making shovelware, charging a premium for it, and then whining because it gets pirated and doesn't sell well. I bought Mass Effect 2 on a pre-order, simply because I didn't have to worry about whether or not it was going to be great. Bioware has earned my trust that they make great games that are worth every penny, so I buy them because I want them to make more.
The developers that are frustrated are the ones that invest more in hyping and advertising the game than they spent developing and testing it, but then turn around and claim "we are a small studio". -
Want proof more than just my say-so and solid hypothetical situation? http://www.myce.com/news/DRM-free-games-no-worse-off-with-piracy-15216/
The only thing DRM does is harm legitimate customers. I have had more problems with things like HDCP and Secu-ROM preventing my computer from operating correctly than any dodgy software. It doesn't stop piracy (or hardly even slow it down), and it primarily gets in the way of the very people you DO want to use your software. How intelligent is that? -
Ooh a discussion about piracy. Arrgh shiver me timbers! :lol:
I'm gonna chime in here and say I agree with what Bog does and I do it myself, we are not alone and we are not in the minority of "pirates".
You may have a problem with it be77solo but at the end of the day, as Aerows has said, if companies didn't make crap games people wouldn't feel the need to pirate a game in order to see if it's any good, and I would put my years salary on 50% of piracy if not more being because people want to try before they buy.
Basically at the end of the day you will never be able to stop the hardcore pirates but they are in the minority, the rest of us would just be happy with demos being available so we can try a game out - when was the last time you saw a demo for a major game?
The demo is a dying breed for where I'm sitting so it's inevitable that I will not spend my hard earned £ unless I can guarantee a game will A) run on my rig and B) be worth the money. And if that means pirating a game before either buying it or deleting it then so be it.
Developers only have themselves to blame when it comes to churning out crap and expecting people to buy it "sight unseen".
Just my £0.02. -
Excellently stated, Pitabred. I couldn't have said it better myself.
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One word, Steam.
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You cannot argue that because the publisher is not affected by a single case of piracy (12 yr old kid) that a publisher is thusly not affected by piracy in general. Say the kid sneaks into a movie theatre, and watches the movie. The movie wouldn't have sold out anyways, so the seat wouldn't have been taken. The kid isn't a nuisance, and he keeps to himself. The impact that this kid has on the theatre is nill. He wouldn't have been able to afford a ticket. And he costs the theatre nothing, heck, he may even provide a "good review" to his friends who may end up buying tickets. According to your argument, the kid has done nothing wrong.
The solution to piracy is not DRM. DRM is a dog chasing its tail. The real solution is arguably worse, it's the removal of anonymization online. It's assigning a permanent ID or address to every user accessing the internet.
Why is piracy rampant? Because 1) it's easy, and 2) the chances of getting caught are slim to none. Currently, we're trying to solve #1, that's not working. The solution is in #2. -
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I find the argument "developers should make good games" as kind of a weak argument against piracy. While it is the developers' responsibility/job to provide a quality product/game, they're not to be blamed if the falling short of the product causes piracy. Aerow's example is self explanatory: he bought ME2 because he knows Bioware makes good games, but what of up and coming developing companies? How can you really know a quality product from someone who's never given you a past sample?
The best solution to this are demos, but even then, I've seen demos be deceiving.
Honestly, the whole argument of a bad game IMO is flawed. I can't get a refund for a bad movie, I can't get a refund for a bad meal. Taste has nothing to do with purchase once the purchase is done. SO really, this issue can only be dealt with prior to said purchase.
The only way to deal with this is for developers to take time to:
- make proper demos
- assure themselves that said demos as well as the games are well advertised in the RIGHT manner
That way, there will be less an issue of "dissatisfaction" if you have a faint idea of what's to come. -
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like many others have said, since there are little to no game demos anymore, then piracy easily becomes more rampant because people want to try it before they buy it.
the majority of software comes for free with a 30 day trial. windows 7 allows a 30 day trial. microsoft office allows a 30 day trial. photoshop allows a 30 day trial.
do you see the trend there? big name software often have a 30 day trial, so why can't game developers make demo's? xbox 360 has a market where you can download demo's left and right for many games.
if software developers just stopped trying to pop out games and actually sat down and wrote up a demo, then there would most likely be a decrease in piracy.
the difference between a bad movie and a bad game is that this is software. bad software is bad software. a bad movie is bad entertainment. though the software is strictly for entertainment, it is through a different, though very important medium. a movie runs on a constant average. a computer game, might not.
what if i want to try out Crysis before i buy it? the game is far too demanding for many computers, and why would i purchase it if i can't run it?
is there a loss of money if i let my friend borrow a DVD or a book? -
There's always an excuse or justification for piracy...
World of Goo has a demo. It also has a piracy rate of 90%.
Piracy is about obtaining software at no cost, with no consequence. Let's not fool ourselves now. -
Trying a game doesn't justify piracy. A game has open system requirements so you know whether or not it'll at least RUN on your machine. I'm positive that while game demos might reduce piracy, it wouldn't to the point of it being so low that it wouldn't be a concern.
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Lower game prices to a value that correspond with the minimal wage in each country (or sets of countries).
Right now, games are cheaper in developed countries, and piracy is more common in undeveloped countries.
Any new game costs in Latinamerica about 10% of the yearly minimal wage. How can they buy a game then! They have to hack it! -
Because as we all know, games are necessities.
How can I afford a Ferrari? I just had to steal it! -
If you still stand by your dogmatic position that "piracy is theft, no matter what" then you are deliberately deluding yourself of some very real facts. This assessment doesn't help anyone in understanding the effects of piracy.
EDIT:
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Regular entertainment like watching TV, or playing games ARE considered a "social need" which is actually usually under special taxes because society sees it as an actual necessity. They are not classified as a "basic need" (like eating), but in fact they are necessities according to all international treaties and standards.
On the other hand a Ferrary is classified as a "luxury". Games are not.
So socially speaking, whether they can afford it or not, people WILL watch TV and play video games. The stability of a society depends on people getting their basic and social needs satisfied. -
^Well if it's an economic issue, then the retail stores are to blame more than the developers/gaming companies. So you're saying it's a flaw in the economic/capitalist system?
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The question of human rights or whether we want or need certain goods has little to do with consumer rights with respect to intellectual property or the act of copyright infringement.
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And then, from that start, piracy WILL NOT END. Always, upon a need, someone will figure out a way to jump security.
Piracy is a social issue, it must be treated as such. -
On a different note... how much can you even trust the "piracy" figures? How about people who buy the game BEFORE pirating it, and just get the pirate copy because it's the only one that actually works? I know I've done that before because the DRM in the "legitimate" version craps up my computer, breaks other things. Do they subtract a substantial portion of their legitimate sales numbers from the pirated copies to account for that before doing the percentages? I doubt it.
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Again, unfortunately, because this should have been done by the UN, piracy has balanced a lot the access to culture, and also to productivity in poor countries. Is it stealing? Sure it is. But its viewed more like a "Robin Hood" type of stealing, where you don't do too much damage, and the people that are damaged (a little) are all rich (from the context of poor countries). -
DRM is generally more pesky to consumers than helpful to the company's revenue. Titan Quest's DRM crashrf without reporting an error if one had a pirated copy. This caused THQ/Iron Lore a major support/reputation head ache. There is solid proof that DRM free content works: Paradox Interactive. They have no DRM on their games, you can copy them from one folder to any where else. But when the piracy rate started to increase they (instead of adding DRM) just asked that you register before you could download patches. This is entirely logical, why should they waste server bandwidth and other expenses supporting people who have not even purchased the game?
As for a flaw in the capitalist system, I reject that theory whole-heartily. There are more regulations upon economies now than there ever were before, and are our economies any more stable? Do they post higher growth rates (or lack thereof when you subtract inter-governmental borrowing)? Is equality more widespread? Sadly the resounding answer to all these questions is "No". Regulation of economics is unnatural and rarely effective. It leads to more and more counter-acting layers of bureaucracy and ineptitude. I'm a strong believer in the power of spontaneous order, and when people say that the current system is free-market capitalism, I get rather upset at such a misleading statement. /rant -
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My solution is to go back to cartridge based systems. Publishers/Devs complain so much about how many billions of dollars they lose, well, it would be cheaper then to use a hardware cartridge based setup than a DVD that everyone in the world can copy for a few cents.
Flash memory is cheap. I'm sure on a full production level you could get 4GB flash memory in a cartridge for a few bucks. It would be a lot more expensive and difficult to write to cartridges or to emulate. Plus with cartridges, there could be a little extra memory so you could save games, and add patches, etc.
Another way is for developers to actually make a game that people want to buy, i.e. stringent quality control. But that'd be asking too much for 99% of the publishers out there. -
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@above: Sorry, I'm not a member in the UN. Also, last I checked: National law > other laws*. How else would we have declarations that allow China/other totalitarian states to deny all the basic rights to many of its citizens and yet no one embargoes? Also, I clearly explained my position in regards to the spontaneous order of piracy, it is the companies duty to make the benefits of purchasing a product higher than its cost. In many states this impossible, because of high tariffs, taxes and other lovely interferences. The only complaint I stated about piracy, was that it reduced incentives for more companies to enter markets where piracy is widespread. If there are no profits possible, who would spend time creating a great product only to have it stolen? I skimmed over the UDHR, what section is the right to entertainment recognized in?
And to stay on topic: My opinion is that DRM is a producer's choice, if they want to install anti-theft exploding ink cartridges in carrots, so be it. I just don't think it is the best solution. -
1) Direct2Drive's and Microsoft's one-time only online activations seem relatively unobtrusive (it's what Valve did with Half-Life 2 when Steam first started, and I was very, very, very upset that I purchased a game in a store and had to go online, albeit briefly, to play it).
2) Or we could go back to actual printed manuals and code wheels...the 'find the third word in the fourth line of page 34' after about 10 minutes of playing wouldn't limit piracy too much as manuals could easily be re-produced in .pdfs distributed with the torrent BUT those pesky 3- and 4-disc code wheels would certainly be frustrating (to customers and pirates, but in this case, actually more frustrating for pirates).
3) I couldn't have said it better than Lithus, but it was slightly hidden in his post. If you truly want to eliminate piracy (and several of the other evils that the internet has introduced: viruses, scams, phishing, etc) then read below. Most people that value personal freedoms over security and justice will balk, but we're facing the same thing with airport security nowadays. Would you rather be safe or would you rather be free? Removing anonymity from the internet would greatly reduce piracy...and, make no mistake, ISPs can already track your internet activity...it wouldn't be too difficult to remove the anonymity. And whereas I'm tired of the draconian airport security and would gladly trade some of my safety/security away for the freedom to take a drink or my toddler's milk bottle through the checkpoint, I would support removing anonymity from the internet. It's that way at work for me, and I have nothing to hide at home either.
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http://www.unwesen.de/articles/ive_got_nothing_to_hide
http://forum.no2id.net/viewtopic.php?t=25522&sid=f904afd361d4951678c99a90ac8f5db7
You only think you don't have anything to hide until it's too late. You a very irrational faith in the complete benevolence of humanity, especially since you admit that some people AREN'T benevolent when it comes to piracy, yet you think they will be if they have a panopticon? -
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The ROM chips from arcade motherboards from the 80's/90's are on the internet.
If the software goes to that type of media, the format will be broken soon after and still available to those who want it.
But it would make game loading times be ridiculously low and you could remove that crazy, spinning, power-drawing, probably one of the first components to fail, so I'm all for the idea.
The media would become more expensive. Still, $0.02 optical disc is not what drives the cost of a $50/$60 game so I don't think the price would be impacted too much.
Of course, I believe, that shortly, there will be no physical media to buy. Although the PSPGo is somewhat of a failure, the iPhone is not and I believe all of its apps are downloadable. -
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I guess I should phrase it more along the lines:
You have to register to drive...
You have to register to work...
You have to register to go to school...
You are provided an identity (and typically a card) for all of these activities, and periodically, you have to demonstrate that you do have that identification to authorities...
A fascist state has little freedom...an anarchic state has little security...
Each society has to decide where it wants to be and that article is a good warning about going to far to one way...
Registering to use the internet would not bother me and if it results in me losing my internet privileges or ending up in jail due to extreme prejudice from the government, then I hope some of my more freedom loving associates would rally to my cause...
I run the risk of losing my driver privileges every time I speed or run a red light (or in lieu of that article), everytime that I do everything right due to an obnoxious county sheriff, but I do think we have to regulate and identify who drives on the roads and interstates...I feel the same about the internet...and my employer (the U.S. Federal Government) feels the same when I'm on their time and they're paying me...
And yes, I do trust in the basic goodness of humanity...I have not yet sucuumbed to the bitter, cynical, paranoid vision that we are all immoral failures...(but I did tell a State Trooper in 1993 that I wasn't getting out of the car because I saw what they did to Rodney King...that didn't go over too well)... -
Now, if someone offers free anonymous wifi, that's their personal (or business') prerogative, meaning that they are somewhat liable for issues that arise.
In addition, you are held accountable for specific abuses on the internet, but the enforcement agencies must first show that there is reasonable evidence pointing to you. -
while you may use public internet, illegal traffic on YOUR computer can get you in trouble. -
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And if you review my posts, I never passed judgement on pirates or their state of mind...I don't know why they do it, whether out of a deep-seated malevolence for everything that is the fabric of society or out of a type of Robin Hood-esque benevolence...
However, I did have to look up panopticon and that will be my word for the day...not sure that I will be able to ever use it, but I like the sci-fi feel of it...and the way it rolls off the tongue... -
Complete loss of internet anonymity isn't really a practical nor realistic solution, especially given the context that you're a software developer who just produces a game/application rather than a political figure.
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As for the reasoning behind piracy...I think you'd be shocked to know just how few people actually realize that piracy is illegal. Okay, they know that "piracy" and "copyright infringement" is wrong, but simply do not link up those illegal acts to those downloads they keep clicking on.
The big issue is that the vast majority of people don't understand the full extent of copyright, and don't follow copyright naturally. I can almost guarantee you that if you asking anyone you know for a copy of a song that they, they will give it to you no questions asked without hesitation. It's just like asking for a cup of sugar to them, really. -
I dunno. Like you, having a USB type flash drive to load games would be much more preferable over an optical drive any day, if not for piracy then for convenience and speed.
What gets me is that I don't know how they can figure out actual losses due to piracy. How do you determine that if a person pirates a game that they would have bought it if they couldn't pirate it? I'm not saying it's right, but you can't determine lost sales based on pirated copies. -
no security measure will stop pirating. people have cracked the iphone to allow downloading paid-for apps from the app store.
security features delay pirating (and these days it seems like barely delay), but do not end it.
What's YOUR solution to DRM/piracy?
Discussion in 'Gaming (Software and Graphics Cards)' started by Melody, Jan 27, 2010.