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    Why aren't there or laptops and all in ones that use desktop graphics?

    Discussion in 'Gaming (Software and Graphics Cards)' started by hi9580, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. hi9580

    hi9580 Notebook Consultant

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    This shows it's completely possible to put a high end desktop GPU and CPU in a laptop/aio form factor.

    So why haven't more pc builders done this, especially with reduced heat output and lower TDP in recent architectures?

    If heat is still a problem I don't see why they can't remove the cooler on a desktop component and replace it with a slimed down version of closed loop water cooler and radiator.

    EDIT: looks like i've predicted the future:



     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
    hi9580, Jun 1, 2015
    #1
  2. Cakefish

    Cakefish ¯\_(?)_/¯

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    Power, heat and size requirements.
    That AIO is very thick and heavy compared to even the most powerful SLI/CrossFire laptops. It has a 24" screen, is 3.75" thick and weighs 25lbs.
     
    Cakefish, Jun 1, 2015
    #2
  3. D2 Ultima

    D2 Ultima Livestreaming Master

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    Because GPUs like the GTX 780M existed, where with a bit of an OC it could match desktop cards.

    Also, look at the size of that thing, and it doesn't even have a built in keyboard. That's way beyond anything you could consider a laptop.
     
    D2 Ultima, Jun 1, 2015
    #3
  4. octiceps

    octiceps Nimrod

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    Are you kidding me?

    [​IMG]

    Bigger than mini-ITX systems. And that's without the lower half (keyboard and touchpad) of a laptop.
     
    octiceps, Jun 1, 2015
    #4
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  5. hfm

    hfm Notebook Prophet

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    Haha...
     
    hfm, Jun 1, 2015
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  6. TBoneSan

    TBoneSan Laptop Fiend

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    If the reference PCBs were always the same size there could be a possibility without the shrouds etc. Then again, you look at the 980m and they could have made it at least as fast as the 970 (desktop) had they wanted to.
    MXM has a good thing going on, just not ubiquitous enough to be priced reasonably or sold off the shelves.
     
    TBoneSan, Jun 1, 2015
    #6
  7. Splintah

    Splintah Notebook Deity

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    Well I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say 25 pounds isn't that bad considering some heavier monitors actually weigh that much.
     
    Splintah, Jun 1, 2015
    #7
  8. DeusExMachina

    DeusExMachina Notebook Consultant

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    It is mostly about the PSU, I think. All AIOs use a laptop power brick and most of those max out at 200w, you can't exactly have a reasonable 300w power brick. My AIO I have for my kids has an available slot for a discrete mobile GPU. If you look on eBay under "mobile video card" you'll find some options there. I plan on upgrading that thing soon w/ a Xeon and a Dgpu from the i3 that is in it.
     
    DeusExMachina, Jun 2, 2015
    #8
  9. hi9580

    hi9580 Notebook Consultant

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    laptop mousepad/keyboards are paper thin and don't thickness at all

    Don't think any OC will get a GTX 980M to match a titan x since it's got roughly double the performance in GFLOPS assuming 100% sli scaling.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2015
    hi9580, Jun 2, 2015
    #9
  10. TBoneSan

    TBoneSan Laptop Fiend

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    A brutaly overclocked 980m can get near to a desktop 980.
     
    TBoneSan, Jun 2, 2015
    #10
  11. hi9580

    hi9580 Notebook Consultant

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    that's clearly not the best solution when dealing with a $800+ card

    P570WM is a gaming laptop that use two external 330watt power bricks, it's clearly a laptop not a desktop or aio form factor
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2015
    hi9580, Jun 2, 2015
    #11
  12. octiceps

    octiceps Nimrod

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    ROFL show me a tactile keyboard and a touchpad assembly that is "paper thin"
     
    octiceps, Jun 2, 2015
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  13. D2 Ultima

    D2 Ultima Livestreaming Master

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    But SLI 980Ms can do it though.
     
    D2 Ultima, Jun 2, 2015
    #13
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  14. DeusExMachina

    DeusExMachina Notebook Consultant

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    Yeah, I kind of answered that from the perspective of an OEM like HP selling AIO's to soccer moms at Costco
     
    DeusExMachina, Jun 2, 2015
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  15. hi9580

    hi9580 Notebook Consultant

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    upgradability

    clevo keyboard is one of the thickest you can get
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2015
    hi9580, Jun 2, 2015
    #15
  16. Phase

    Phase Notebook Evangelist

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    they can get upgraded in most gaming machines that having the 980ms in sli. soooo invalid point
     
    Phase, Jun 2, 2015
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  17. D2 Ultima

    D2 Ultima Livestreaming Master

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    And MXM is, for the most part.
     
    D2 Ultima, Jun 2, 2015
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  18. octiceps

    octiceps Nimrod

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    Is it thicker than the SteelSeries Cherry MX Brown mechanical keyboard inside the MSI GT80?
     
    octiceps, Jun 2, 2015
    #18
  19. TBoneSan

    TBoneSan Laptop Fiend

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    I've always found the flagship mobile GPU's in SLI/CF(?) to very capably out pace a single flagship desktop GPU provided it has a functioning SLI profile.
    MXM is the best solution to portable upgradability. It's here, proven to work well and space efficient.
    Too bad GPU upgradability isn't high enough on buyers hierarchy of needs when it comes to shopping for a gaming laptop... At least not till it's too late.
     
    TBoneSan, Jun 2, 2015
    #19
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  20. Falco152

    Falco152 Notebook Demon

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    One big reason is cost. There isn't enough volume sold to justify it.
    There are specialized laptops in the 15-17" can fit the small profile desktop cards.
    And no, they are not cheaper than a luxury car and still unwieldy.
     
    Falco152, Jun 2, 2015
    #20
  21. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    [​IMG]

    You mean like this one I am modding to put water cooling in?
     
    Meaker@Sager, Jun 2, 2015
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  22. Ethrem

    Ethrem Notebook Prophet

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    Exactly. My 880M SLI cards, even being broken pieces of garbage as they were, still outpaced my 780 Ti Superclocked card!
     
    Ethrem, Jun 2, 2015
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  23. killkenny1

    killkenny1 Too weird to live, too rare to die.

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    1. Take one of them thin and tall Lian Li cases and build a desktop.
    2. Glue a monitor to the one side of the case.
    3. ???
    4. Profit!
     
    killkenny1, Jun 2, 2015
    #23
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  24. thegreatsquare

    thegreatsquare Notebook Deity

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    I think it would be more doable in BGA form [...which is the direction the industry is going anyway], instead of like the picture with exchangeable retail card. Cooling would need to be top notch, but not so dissimilar from the GT72 ...or maybe prefab H2O that can fit in similar case. If I had to choose between a MXM version GTX 980m or a BGA version of the desktop GTX 980 for around the same price in a laptop, I'd consider the latter.
     
    thegreatsquare, Jun 2, 2015
    #24
  25. TBoneSan

    TBoneSan Laptop Fiend

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    Why on earth would you choose soldered GPU over an upgradable one?
    For a centimetre worth of space saving? Or am I missing something
     
    TBoneSan, Jun 2, 2015
    #25
  26. Falco152

    Falco152 Notebook Demon

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    Cut cost and charge more :)

    Why earn a penny when you can earn another penny more
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
    Falco152, Jun 2, 2015
    #26
  27. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    Funny. This thread is funny.
     
    HTWingNut, Jun 2, 2015
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  28. thegreatsquare

    thegreatsquare Notebook Deity

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    As the cost of upgrading to a MXM 980m is like $1k, ...and so too should be its upgrade, I think I'd be content with the extra performance of a desktop GTX 980 and call it a day. I doubt I'll be upgrading from the 980m anyway ...unless it's a 2nd hand unit way down the road for far less than $1k. I only dislike BGA because repairs are unnecessarily more expensive if something goes wrong.
     
    thegreatsquare, Jun 2, 2015
    #28
  29. Cakefish

    Cakefish ¯\_(?)_/¯

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    A quick Google search for '980M MXM' is not even listing anything at all here in the UK! The things are as rare and valuable as gold dust. I guess you have to import them nowadays, just adding to the hassle and cost.

    When they were available back with the 880M/780M/680M and prior I always remember the MXM parts to be half of the cost of a fully-specced new laptop anyways! I don't see any point in boycotting BGA parts anymore when MXM upgrades are so rare and expensive in my country. Unfortunately we're forced to spend lots of money either way.
     
    Cakefish, Jun 2, 2015
    #29
  30. TBoneSan

    TBoneSan Laptop Fiend

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    $715 new. Still. That's not a very strong argument as to why you prefer a soldered GPU. You've actually made half my point for me. Soldered parts are prohibitively expensive to repair - one must throw the baby out with the bath water.

    Seriously. Minute space saving aside, What's to like about soldered parts?
     
    TBoneSan, Jun 2, 2015
    #30
  31. thegreatsquare

    thegreatsquare Notebook Deity

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    You do realize I am referring to a full Desktop 980 as the hypothetical BGA part, right?

    ...so, performance.

    Also, I've never had a part fail on a laptop ever. Hopefully, my luck will continue.
     
    thegreatsquare, Jun 2, 2015
    #31
  32. TBoneSan

    TBoneSan Laptop Fiend

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    Sure, but I fail to see why you'd sooner have it as a non - replacement part.
     
    TBoneSan, Jun 2, 2015
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  33. thegreatsquare

    thegreatsquare Notebook Deity

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    Because I don't think upgrading for performance is cost effective over buying new every 4-5 years, so I'd strongly consider just taking the top performer.
     
    thegreatsquare, Jun 2, 2015
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  34. TBoneSan

    TBoneSan Laptop Fiend

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    Well you're entitled to your opinion. I don't think the savings is worth being stuck with the same GPU welded to the MB for 4-5 years - that's just me though :)
     
    TBoneSan, Jun 2, 2015
    #34
  35. hi9580

    hi9580 Notebook Consultant

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    ok for aio not ok for laptop
     
    hi9580, Jun 2, 2015
    #35
  36. octiceps

    octiceps Nimrod

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    How does it still qualify as a "laptop" when it cuts off circulation to your legs and sterilizes you after gaming sessions?
     
    octiceps, Jun 2, 2015
    #36
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  37. Splintah

    Splintah Notebook Deity

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    I can just imagine putting a Radeon 290x in a laptop, the hospitals would be thanking the manufacturer
     
    Splintah, Jun 2, 2015
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  38. killkenny1

    killkenny1 Too weird to live, too rare to die.

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    Yeah, I was talking about AIO, particularly this:
    I think gluing monitor to thin case (like the ones Lian Li has) would have similar effect/looks.
     
    killkenny1, Jun 2, 2015
    #38
  39. D2 Ultima

    D2 Ultima Livestreaming Master

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    Not in countries with free healthcare =D
     
    D2 Ultima, Jun 2, 2015
    #39
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  40. Falco152

    Falco152 Notebook Demon

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    Why would that be a con? A guy who does that to their laptop on their laps didn't want kids in the first place ;)
     
    Falco152, Jun 2, 2015
    #40
  41. Cakefish

    Cakefish ¯\_(?)_/¯

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    The NHS wouldn't. That's for sure.
     
    Cakefish, Jun 3, 2015
    #41
  42. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    HTWingNut, Jun 3, 2015
    #42
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  43. hi9580

    hi9580 Notebook Consultant

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    The main purpose would not be portability but the advantage and comfort of using a laptop keyboard and screen over a desktop keyboard and monitor.
     
    hi9580, Jun 4, 2015
    #43
  44. hi9580

    hi9580 Notebook Consultant

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    hi9580, Jun 4, 2015
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  45. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    You know you can buy keyboards of any type, right? What's so special about laptop keyboards? You can even buy USB keyboards that are like laptop keyboards. And desktop LCD's are typically far superior to laptop ones and you get a lot more choices. What you're suggesting is not possible or feasible. While I was half joking about building your own like that one, it is probably same weight and dimensions as that AIO you linked to.
     
    HTWingNut, Jun 4, 2015
    #45
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  46. killkenny1

    killkenny1 Too weird to live, too rare to die.

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    killkenny1, Jun 4, 2015
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  47. jaug1337

    jaug1337 de_dust2

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    Desktop GPU's require more cooling, that's why.
     
    jaug1337, Jun 4, 2015
    #47
  48. Falco152

    Falco152 Notebook Demon

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    Hopefully, you got the idea from all the replies, that it is not impossible for anyone design and build a portable laptop capable having an serviceable video card designed for desktop use inside.
    Heck, it could be made entirely with Desktop components.

    The problem really comes down is how much you are willing to spend and how much a manufacture are willing to risk. (It is an open market with little competitors in this area).
     
    Falco152, Jun 4, 2015
    #48
  49. octiceps

    octiceps Nimrod

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    You must be the only person in the world who feels this way. Comfort and quality wise, laptop screens and keyboards are a joke compared to what's available for desktops.
     
    octiceps, Jun 4, 2015
    #49
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  50. Splintah

    Splintah Notebook Deity

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    dat razer chroma
     
    Splintah, Jun 4, 2015
    #50
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