hardware rendering in 3d apps

hi all! i've heard of hardware rendering in 3d apps such as maya 3ds max. i'm not exactly sure what it means but i think it refers to the usage of the gpu rather than the cpu for 3d rendering.

now it seems the quadro & firegl cards are the ones which are suited for this, but of course they are way beyond my budget. so the laptop i have shortlisted - hp dv5 1015tx [similar to dv5t] - has the 9600m gt ddr2 card w/ a c2d 2.0ghz cpu. its the best i can afford.

will this card be utilised for hardware rendering?

how much of a difference does gpu rendering make vs cpu rendering?

& if the card is not so utilised then is it a better idea to go in for a higher spec cpu [eg. a c2d 2.53ghz] & skimp on the gpu [say, go in for an ati 3450]?

thanks a lot

 

Videocards are only used for representation in OGL and DX viewports, they are not used for Rendering in general. (Although with Nvidia now owning Mental Images and Mental Ray, it's only a matter of time) There some hardware based Renderers like Gelato, but they are useless.

So CPU will be generally holding your renderspeeds back, so for CPU you can never have enough, Cores or Speed.

With the GPU, Ati would be ok too but I'm not sure about the quality of their drivers with certain 3D Programs, as much as i hate to say it Nvidia's drivers are usually more accepted in 3D programs.

I would stick to 9600GT and as fast a CPU as you could afford. This will enable you to have CUDA support for hardware rendering, should it be feasible anytime soon, and keep it future proofed.

 

If you have 3ds max and a nvidia card, get gelatto. It uses the gpu too accelerate the rendering, i think it works in other 3d softwares too but not sure about that. As far as i know nothing exist for ati and intel.

 

Isn't that only with certain Quadro workstation cards? The CUDA platform or something?

 

CUDA works on all 8xxx,9xxx and gtx xxx GPUs.
http://www.nvidia.com/page/gz_home.html

 

http://ati.amd.com/technology/streamcomputing/

Both have it in the works -- neither is fully ready.

 

keep in mind, Jlbrightbill, that this isn't ati's first attempt at general purpose gpu processing. they have already tried and failed once.

 

thanks for all the replies freakish123 & ayle.

now that it is clear that the cpu is reponsible for rendering, what is the minimum spec of the gpu for the viewports. i know it would depend greatly on the complexity of the models but im hoping someone could make a sort of generalisation.

for instance, is the 9600m gt the very minimum? the reason i ask is if i have to go in for a better cpu, i will have to compromise on the gpu [probably go in for the ati 3450 or nvidia 8400m gs], given budgetary constraints.

all in all, its probably a question of jumping -
from 2.0ghz c2d to 2.53ghz c2d
VS
from 9600m gt to ati 3450/nvidia 8400m gs

i know im going too much into speculation, but ideally i'd like to make the decision knowing what i'm getting into.

thanks for being so patient. all your help is much appreciated.

 

2.53 c2d + 9600mGT

 

thanks for the suggestion BenLeonheart, but unfortunately the lappy w/ the 9600m gt is not customizable, so stuck with 2.0ghz c2d if i have to retain the 9600m gt

 

Actually, laptop CPU's are fairly simple to swap.
If your laptop manuf. says otherwise, they are likely misleading you either intentionally or due to lack of information/expertise.
There are some rare laptops in which cpu's cannot be replaced, but if we are talking about actual newer generation laptop, then replacing the CPU is NOT a big problem at all.

Also ... the 9600m GT is an mxm-II card.
So, by default, your laptop should have an MXM-II slot which would allow you to switch the gpu for another faster one that also uses an MXM-II slot), unless the manuf. for some reason decided to solder the gpu to the mobo (or if you use a Mac).

When it comes to 3d rendering ... I'm using 3dsMax 9, and my 9600m GT GDDR is more than adequate for viewport displays.
CPU's/RAM are generally responsible for actual rendering of images/animations.

It would be nice if we could shuffle the rendering to our gpu's though as it would be a far better utilization in professional applications ... but we'd have to wait until such solutions become available.
For now, we're mostly stuck with cpu's being responsible for rendering.
'Gelatto' is a nice concept, but at the same time, issues exist with numerous programs (Max 9 for example)

 

I would recommend to go for the machine with 9600GT and just swap the CPU later on, when you can afford it

 

thanks a lot Deks & NJoy - just the sort of answer i was looking for. i'll go in for the 2.0ghz cpu w/ 9600m gt, for now, & swap the cpu later if needed, as you both suggest.

but is it possible to swap the cpu by myself, or will i need to get it done from hp? also, will it void the warranty?

similarly, can swapping the mxm-II card be done by an average joe [i.e. me] or it requires an expert? & what are the ramifications as regards warranty?

guys, thanks for all your help.

 

it's relatively easy, just depends on where your hands are growing from))) Also, depends on the design of particular laptop. For example, to swap the CPU on my current machine I only had to take the backpanel off to get access to it, whilst about 3 weeks ago we had to take my friend's HP (1st gen Core Duo based 17") totally apart just to get to the clogged fan. However, HPs are quite popular, so I don't think it's going to be a problem to find a dismantle guide for that model. You can also find some good CPU replacement guides here, at NBR

 

Regarding the MXM card - that is slightly more complicated, because you have to find an exact match (even though it's a standard, they might differ slightly between different ODMs) and make sure it is supported by your laptop's BIOS.

But for now, 9600GT is one of the most powerful MXM-II cards available on the market

 

Usually you can get the service manual in the support section of the hp website.

 

thanks a lot NJoy & Ayle. but where can i get info on which motherboard exists in the laptop & what processors it will support. also how do i gauge how much additional heat will be generated & how much of it will be manageable, if & when i do swap the cpu. thanks for your replies.

 

CPU-Z gives detailed MB info. However, I'm quite sure it's going to be Montevina based laptop, so it will support all the current penryns up to T9800. Regarding temperatures, Pxxxx CPUs have a TDP of 25W, whilst Txxxx - 35W. So, let's say, if you get a P8600, your system will run pretty cool and the battery life will be nice too. You might swap it for P9500 later on to keep the temps down or get more powerful T9600 or T9800 at a cost of 5-10 C extra. Still, it's not going to be a lot, Penryns seem to be pretty cool cpus.

 

also, swapping the cpu WILL void your warranty. But if you can get to it without breaking any seals, then you can just drop the old one in before taking it to the service centre (hopefully, you will never need to). =)

 

Go for the Quadro FXes if you have the budget to spend on and if you want to model professionally.

I am a 3D Max user - using a 4870x2 Corssfire and an 8600M GT. For 3Ds Max, I highly emphasize on CPU power at the end of the day, rendering is sole purpose of 3D Max. The CPU power is thing that really is my concern in 3D Max.

Quality rendering is highly dependent on the renderer assigned - vRay and the lower ended Mental Ray for example. And yes, skills.

 

thanks for all you help NJoy. you have answered all my questions, i couldn't ask for anything more.

thanks to SomeFormOFhuman & all the others who posted before. i'm thankful to all of you. love this community & hope to give back in the same manner i've received.

cheers

 

You're very welcome, Kidrow =) I'm glad we could help))