nVidia 485M or ATI 6970M ???

OK, so I know I'm going to get the Sager NP8150-S1 laptop for gaming, but which video card. I want the absolute best performance, but is few % increase worth $250 ???

Which video card would you get? Go all out and get the nVidia, or save some $$$ and get the ATI because it's good enough for most (all?) games anyways...

Thanks!
M.

 

If performance and money saving are high on your list the 6970 will do just fine. You won't really notice a % or two here or there in games you'll play.
However drivers are still of a lesser quality for the 6970. That may not matter much to you if they are close enough in your book, but bear it in mind.
Based on pure performance as your metric, the 6970 and 485 should be considered about equal, with the 6970 costing less. Rest is up to you.

 

Maximum performance damn the budget: 485m

Superb performance for the cost: 6970m

Difference in benchmarks between the two: Anything from 8-15% depending on benchmark in question.

 

Actually it should be between 4% and 8% in games. I see no reason to get the 485m as performance is too close to matter.

Drivers are not much of a problem, specially the lastest drivers from both vendors.

 

I'd say go with the 6970M as you pay around 50% less for a GPU that works around at most 8% less in performance than the 485M.

the 485M is better than the 6970M, but for the money nVidia is forcing you to pay though, it isn't...

 

I would just add that nvidia do not have a great reputation when it comes to mobile video cards.

I have had 2 x 8800m gtx sli cards fail 1 x 9800m gtx sli and 2 x gtx 260m sli fail.

The newer generations may be more reliable but ill stick with nvidia desktop parts only from now on.

I'd add that ati driver support is also top notch. It took under 3 weeks to get a crossfire driver for witcher 2.

Im using 2 x 5870s in crossfire now and the performance
is good. In most gamesas good as a 5850 desktop card or better

 

those cards failed on u because they wer the g80 and g92. Even desktop cards had problems on those cores but could be remedied with a simple fix. However they were amazing cards at that generation

It is more logical to go with the 6970m, as most have said I see no reason to go the 485m route, tbh mobile drivers have a lesser quality in general compared to the desktop ones.

 

This 6970M is my first AMD GPU, and I find the talk of inferior drivers to be overblown at best, flat out FUD at worst.

Click here, scroll down to the 1080p tests, and you'll have all of the information you need. The 485M is not worth an extra $250.

 

Well, there are a few instances where the nVidia drivers work slightly better but i agree with you it's not enough to really matter and fixes are rolled out quickly enough. Unless you're going to use programs that are know to have a bad relationship with AMD, get the 6970m.

I do prefer the nVidia control panel over the CCC since the UI is a bit better (scaling options adjustments anyone?) but i don't feel like the UI is horrible, it's decent that's it.

 

the best thing nvidia has is the ability to put profiles for each game, and that is great

 

Driver problems:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m18x/583717-ati-catalyst-11-5-rc6-mouse-lag-fixed.html (note that to be "fixed" it had to be "broken" before this)

Read around the forums. There are problems and there are fixes. Fixes are coming faster, but what is funny is the amount of problems they highlight were ongoing before the fix. For many, as you see above, these problems are minor and folks don't worry about them much. Up to you if that's the case for you or not.

 

Thanks for all the great advice guys!

I have one last question, what about the new nVIDIA GTX 560M card?

One review I've read said it performs just as well as the 6970M or better (according to nVidia )... here: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560M - Notebookcheck.net Tech

 

The Geforce GTX 560m performs slightly faster than the GTX 460m.
AMD Radeon HD 6970m "EATS!" both cards as a midnight snack, as do the GTX 485m. xD

 

OK, One more thing guys!

Regardless of which card I get, I'll have to stick to the lower end I7 CPU. I want to keep my laptop under 2K, so I'll get this chip:

2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-2630QM, 2.0-2.8GHz, (32nm, 6MB L3 cache)

Also, the NP8150-S1 laptop gives me an option to upgrade to 1666MHz RAM over the 1333MHz, is that worth the money?

Would a faster CPU and faster RAM help the video card much?

 

Just stick to Intel Core i7 2630QM and 1333MHz DDR3 memory.
You need a i7 2720QM to be able to use 1600MHz DDR3 memory and still you wont actually "feel" any improvement.

The reason why i got the i7 2720QM is because it was the default choice on my notebook.

 

you should also highlight the problems people are facing with the verde drivers

 

I think you were confusing the 6790m with the 6970m.

take a closer look at the list in the link you provided

 

Nop. The laptop I want has 3 options:

1) nVidia GeForce GTX 560M 1,536MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11
2) ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD6970 2048MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 ( + 245 )
3) nVidia GeForce GTX 485M 2,048MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 (User Upgradeable) ( + 495 )

 

He meant that when you looked at the GTX560m performance on notebookcheck, you confused the 6970m for the 6790m when you said the GTX560m was close to the 6970m.

We know the laptop you want doesn't have the 6790m option .

Get the 6970m unless you absolutely need a nVidia GPU, the price increase for the 485m isn't worth it.

 

6970M unless you like spending a heck of a lot more money for not much in performance

We get it. Your pro-Nvidia - doesn't take away the fact that the driver problems have been getting fixed

Will you start posting all the issues people have had with Nvidia cards? Or are you just out to get ATI now

 

The 6970M and 485M are 40 to 50% faster than the 560M. They're simply in a tier that the 560M can't reach.

RE: Drivers, the new Nvidia driver has screwed a lot of people up. It goes both ways.

 

There is an App called RadeonPro which does the same exact thing and is a godsend since it used to be what i hated about ATI cards .

http://www.radeonpro.info/en-US/

 

Well looks like I'll be getting the ATI card

BTW, I looked at the article again and it says: "The performance of the GeForce GTX 560M should be near the GTX 470M / 480M and according to Nvidia even beat the fast AMD Radeon HD 6970M."

So I didn't get the 6970M confused with 6790M I think

Here's the link again: http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-560M.48313.0.html

 

Lololololol.
Clearly its Nvidias clueless PR team spreading FUD!
I would rather trust actual consumers than some PR gang, wouldent you?
And what better place to get help than NBR.

 

Im not sure what the 560m will be beating the 6970m in but hey bring it on .

 

That has to the big the biggest joke I have heard in a while, 560M faster than 6970M? gimme a break, Nvidia

 

OK, so I guess that article was full of hot air then
Well thank God for this website and all you guys who are on top of things (I was about to buy an MSI laptop with that card few days ago but somehow found this site and started asking questions

So do you think that a stock Sager NP8150-S1 laptop ( Sager NP8150-S1 (Built on Clevo P150HM) Custom Gaming Sager Notebook ) will basically run all current games no problem?

Also, what is NTSC Color Gamut? I have an option to upgrade the screen but have no idea what i'm upgrading to... and would you get anti glare or glossy ???

 

From what i gathered from the forum Sager ships by default a rather bad screen.
(I have not tested the screen myself, only posting what i heard.)
More on that here: CLICKY!
Most Sager resellers offer to upgrade the screen to a better one for a fee, so its up to you to do it or upgrade it in the future yourself.

Since i bought my notebook from a Norwegian Clevo builder i got the high quality matte screen by default.

 

The screens used stock by some US Sager Retailers can only produce a 75% NTSC Color Gamut, so overall, you will be using a screen that is not fully color vibrant. Instead you will see some white washing and fading in colors.

Between the screens Sagers use by default, I recommend the Matte as Matte screens these days tend to be made with a higher quality gamut, brightness and better view-angles as Matte screen are often made to cater to the corporate machine lineup. Furthermore, they are less prone to glare and other annoyances with glossy and E2E surfaces.

That said, if you got the extra $95-100 USD, I would definitely go for the 95% NTSC Gamut Matte, as you will get fantastic viewing angles, high brightness and a 95% vibrant NTSC color palette on the screen, giving you very rich color eyecandy. However, I don't know if the screens Sager use also provides a 95% Adobe sRGB color gamut coverage as well. If it does than you are heading towards more color perfection with a RGBLED backlight setup.

 

From notebookcheck "The performance of the GeForce GTX 560M should be near the GTX 470M / 480M and according to Nvidia even beat the fast AMD Radeon HD 6970M."

See?

 

That is complete crap. It has been already benchmark and tested that the 560M is no more than a more efficiently designed 460M. It's main rivals are more of the 5870M league than the 6970M. There is no way a 560M can destroy a 6970M. If it did, than nVidia might as well sack their overly priced 485M, which is only 5-8% BETTER than the 6970M.

Either this is a typo or notebookcheck has gone down the toilet with their ratings.

 

Question:
The TDP of 6970M is rated 75-100W. When is it producing 75W heat and when is it 100W? The reason why I am asking is because 560M is pretty darn close with a TDP of 75W and the performance is way under a 6970M...

 

75W I think when it is in UVD, Low-3D Performance Mode. 100W when it is being pushed to the max.

 

So that means that let say you are playing a game with 1080p with medium details. The 560M goes on full frequencies with full power consumption while the 6970M plays the same settings BUT don`t have to use full power to do the same, and therefor gets pretty close to the TDP of 560M?

If so then the 6970M is very tempting. Wonder how they compare to each other when idling...

 

Yeah, a little critical thinking would be nice on their part, after all people go to that site to get better info than the "crap" that's usually on the manufacturers website.

 

^ Agreed, it's misleading if its an error, grossly wrong if not

6970M is a downclocked desktop 6850. The 560M is a downclocked desktop GTS 550.

Vassstttllyyy different categories

 

no wait wutttt no laptop GFX card will consume 75 wats when watching a blueray mines cannot even reach 75 wats and i can watch a blueray (they are also 3 gens old hardware)


what amd ment by 75-100 wats is probably that depending on the version of the vbios, driver and the actual game runnign on it the power consumsion will varie

 

I just got an email from Brett at Xotic PC, he said:

"The ATI and NVidia use a different setup, so that ATI is the only option available on that side at this time. If they release a compatible card for it in the future it would be possible to upgrade it at that point."

I don't follow. Can you explain to me what he means? I've asked about being able to upgrade the video card later IF i got the ATI.

Also, what does "User upgradeable" mean next to the nVidia option here: Sager NP8150-S1 (Built on Clevo P150HM) Custom Gaming Sager Notebook

 

Oh yes I heard about this vaguely somewhere on the Sager NBR forums. Apparently once you order a card from one brand, you can't switch to the other due to some hardware integration on the NP8150. So if you get the 485M, your future upgrades would be nVidia only and if you went ATI, you would have to stick ATI options.

Also that "User-Upgradability" means that the GPU is upgradeable and is not integrated or proprietary to the motherboard.

 

they have never been that accurate, now can we say that there is an nvidia bias? again!

I remember when they placed the 4670m that I have with the gt 9600m, and they are very different in performance

 

The 6970M spanks the 460M/560M and is on par with a 485M, yet barely costs more than a 560M and much less than a 485M. I wouldn't even look at a 460M/560M/485M at this point.

Wait til Nvidia unveils the 580M and AMD reveals the 7000 Mobility series.

 

Still confused...

OK, I get that once I go one route, aka ATI or nVidia, I have to stay this way. Fine. But what's this user upgradeable next to nVidia, IF I STILL CAN UPGRADE TO A BETTER ATI CARD LATER, right?

Is it that ATI card is made just for that model, where's nVidia uses some sort of generic shape and port, and so it easily upgradeable, aka any new mobile nVidia will fit in the slot?

 

All the cards used in the NP8150 are MXM 3.0b Standard (The 6970M Clevo uses can be modded to be used on AW m15x's for instance successfully). So they are all upgradeable. The reason why the 485M gets the mark first is because if you are coming from a 460M/560M, the 485M is an upgradeable choice in the future without any problems.

The 6970M though is Sager's only ATI offering on this model, so it is upgradeable, but there is nothing better than that in ATI's route for the moment, so what do you want to upgrade to?

The "stick with one brand" upgrade path thing I am still not sure so it would be better if someone from one of the vendors can confirm that.

 

I spoke with guys at Xotic today and they said that once you go one brand then you have to stay that way... I don't know what that is though, he did mention something about heat sinks and motherboard/system configuration. I'll ask them again...

 

The AMD Radeon HD 6970m uses a different heatsink for cooling.
But if you got Nvidia hardware and upgrade to the AMD one, just buy the heatsink too.
Problem solved.

Not sure why you would first get the lower performing Nvidia GTX 560m first.

 

Thanks for all the advice guys! I placed an order directly with Sager, here's the setup I got (Basically a NP8150-S1 + nicer screen):

Display
15.6" Full HD LED-Backlit Display features 95% NTSC Color Gamut in Super Glossy Surface (1920 x 1080) [$45.00]

Video & Graphics Card
AMD Radeon HD 6970M GPU with 2GB GDDR5 Video Memory

CPU Processor
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-2630QM Processor ( 6MB L3 Cache, 2.00GHz)

Thermal Compound
IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU

Operating System
Genuine MS Windows® 7 Home Premium 32/64-Bit Edition ( 64-Bit Preloaded )

Memory
8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz - 2 X 4GB

Primary Hard Disk Drive
500GB 7200rpm SATA 300 Hard Drive

Optical Drive Bay
6X Blu-ray Reader/8X DVD±R/2.4X +DL Super-Multi Drive & Software

Wireless Network Card
Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6230 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN + Bluetooth Combo Module

Primary Battery
Smart Li-ION Battery Pack

Integrated Security Device
Fingerprint Reader

 

Why direct from Sager? Going through resellers is best, because Sager's customer service is pretty much the worst you'll find.

 

Errr, I'll give them a chance
Order is already processing, I purchased the guaranteed 2 business day build and overnight shipping. As long as the computer gets to me quick and it works I have no complains. XoticPC would just forward the order to Sager anyways. Oh, and the price was exactly the same, to a penny, going through Sager or XoticPC

 

AMD didn't mean anything by the 75-100W TDP because AMD never said that the HD6970M has a TDP of 75-100W. Such a loose TDP rating for the HD6970 is not an official line from AMD, it's just more junk information courtesy of notebookcheck from when they were previewing Eurocom's early ES cards. It was a guessed at TDP, and a very broad ballpark guess.


Reviews have shown that the HD6970M draws about as much power at load as the GTX 470M, but no official TDP values for the HD6000M series have been released by AMD.

 

Perhaps you are underestimating and simplifying the difference a good reseller can make. There is a reason why so many avoid buying direct. All is fine until you need some kind of service, and when that means the difference between being without a laptop for a long or short time then you realise.