need advice before i pull the trigger

hello forum:smile:


i have two more days before i pull the trigger for a DiY Vidock setup that im planning to put on my Acer Extensa 5620z

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i am stuck with two possible build

#1

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PNY RVCG98GTEE1XXB GeForce 9800 GT 1GB 256-bit GDDR3(No externat PCI-E power) $69.99 + $6.98 Shipping + $5.77 TAX = $82.74

AC-DC 12V 80W 6.6A Switching Power Adapter (110/220V) $22.95 + Free Shipping

HIT PE4L $55 + $10shipping = $65

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Total: $170.69

#2

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GIGABYTE GV-N450-1GI GeForce GTS 450 1GB 128-bit GDDR5(molex to pcie included)
and
Diablotek DA Series PSDA400 400W ATX12V Power Supply
GPU$109.99 + PSU$19.99 + $10.72 TAX + free shipping = $140.70

HIT PE4L $55 + $10 Shipping = $65

ATX Power Switch (SWEX) $6.00

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Total: $211.7

now here is the scenario

My computer has T4400 2.2Ghz 800FSB 1MB L2 Cache (TME Locked )
its got 2.5GB DDR2 @667Mhz 5-5-5-15(maybe upgrade later to 4GB)
its got an ExpressCard Slot and i want to use that for the graphics
my internal monitor is a 15.4 CCFL has a maximum resolution of 1280x800 @ 60 Hz
external monitor is not an option cause i can't afford to buy one
i want to get an nvidia card because i am planning to use cuda



programs that i will use the cuda for

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-MediaCoder(video transcoder for my devices phone)
-powerdvd 10(Full HD player)
-powerdirector 9(some HD video Editing)
-md5crack(just in case i found something on the net that doesn't include password)
-vreveal(for crappy video's)
-badaboom(for my psp, youtube, etc)
-dreamscene(video acceleration for 1080p video background desktop theme)
-folding@home(when i am bored)
-3d max(want to get my hands on for modelling some characters for some movies)
-flash player(1080p Video Acceleration)
-Adobe Photoshop CS5(with cuda hack)
-Adobe After Effects CS5(with cuda hack)
-Adobe Premier Pro CS5(with cuda hack)

and the list of games i want to play are

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-GTA IV & GTA V
-Mafia II
-F1 2010 & F1 2011
-Dirt 2 & Dirt 3
-Dota & Dota 2
-rfactor 2
-GTR3
-Dragon Age 2
-NBA 2k11 & NBA 2k12
-Starcraft II
-Street fighter IV
-Call of Duty Black Ops
-Metro 2033 (low to medium setting is good enough for me )
-crysis 2 (low to medium setting is good enough for me )
-PCSX2(Gran Turismo 4, Suikoden III & IV & V, resident Evil IV, TEKKEN 5, Final Fantasy X & XII

BEFORE YOU COMMENT! i already asked for help on the main DiY Vidock thread but (p.s. i don't wanna sound impolite, just having a rant )

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ALL I GOT IS THE LINK FOR THE FIRST POST ON WHICH I CAN'T TRULY UNDERSTAND!!!

just in case someone here is more helpful, i would post the things that i understand and don't quite understand


what i understand is

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x1 1.0 is using a PE4L and can only use a single connection expressport(EC2C) OR m-pcie(PM3N) and uses a single port and has performance penalty of 60% average

x2 1.0 is using a PE4H and can use a combination of m-pcie(PM3N) and expressport(EC2C) and use two ports each and has performance penalty of 20% average

x4 is a combination of x2 1.0 and is using PE4H m-pcie(PM3N) and expressport(EC2C) and and use four ports

what i DON'T understand is

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-according to the x1e tweak, it can deliver about 15% to 30% for x1 1.0 using PE4L by combining an odd port and an even number port
HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE IF PE4L CAN ONLY USE ONE PORT???
IS IT USING A COMBINATION Of PE4L m-pcie(PM3N) and expressport(EC2C)???
if so HOW WOULD YOU CONNECT THE m-pcie(PM3N) and expressport(EC2C) ON THE PE4L AT THE SAME TIME????


-PE4H requires two ports must be free. looking at my sytem specs of my system, is it possible for me to get the PE4H x2 1.0 expressport(EC2C) and have a performance penalty of 20% instead of 60%


-since i don't have the option of getting an external monitor, my computer has X3100 graphics
is it possible to get Optimus Up and running for my system?

if so, on top of 60% performance penalty gift PE4L gives, how much more performance penalty i should expect running internal lcd?


-since 60% sounds huge to me, will the GT 430(28.8GB/s) outperform the 9800GT(57.6 GB/s) since it is using less bandwidth?


-so in theory using a PE4L x1 1.0 expressport(EC2C) + GTS 450 is a huge waste of money since 60% + running internal LCD of the performance is lost?


-i am thinking of getting a PE4H x2 1.0 expressport(EC2C) + 9800GT in hope to just get 20% performance penalty

is that possible?


-and THE MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL, IS THE 60% performance penalty for PE4L x1 1.0 TRUE FOR 9800GT?

edit: if this post offended you, i apologize in advance
-jason:smile:

 

I'm pretty sure DIY Vidock has to feed to a external monitor as their is no way for it to drive the internal one.

 

There are ways to get the output from the video card to the laptop's LCD, but he would have to really do some serious tinkering. If his laptop had the GMA 4500 or the last generation HD integrated graphics, it would've been possible to use an Optimus driver and enable display cloning, albeit at a significant performance hit.

 

Heh, almost everything you want to do would run better on a powerful CPU than CUDA. You may want to read up on the CUDA and find out what is marketing BS and what isn't. You'll discover it's mostly BS. Dedicated GPGPU for the applications you want to use have been overhyped. Maybe parallel processing from things like future architecture based on Sandy Bridge or AMD's FUSION is the way.

If I were you I'd look into the new FUSION laptops that were announced at CES or one with a beefy Sandy Bridge.

 

unfortunately different people have different perspective and so do i.

i previously owned a Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 3.5ghz, 4GB RAM and HD 4870 512MB but i sold it due to financial issues and so far, i don't miss the relationship i had with my 4870 especially at GTA IV and some old 2d and 3d games

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i did my research and so far the results i am looking at are looking good

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also there is massive increase on Adobe

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and yes i am aware on the results posted by anandtech about cuda quality and it don't make me worried one bit
The Sandy Bridge Review: Intel Core i7-2600K, i5-2500K and Core i3-2100 Tested - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News


although i really want to buy a new desktop computer, my wallet doesn't permit me to do so

right now, i am very extremely limited on resources and i want to squeeze every little bit of performance i can get

 

are you saying that x3100 wont work with optimus?
so the post about optimus is a lie???

what do you mean about significant?

i hope i won't be running the card i got at only 10% of its maximum speed

 

Correct.

No. The Optimus drivers are designed to be used with Intel's GMA X4500 and newer IGPs; the X3100 and anything older is not supported.

These ViDocks only has a PCI-Express 1x slot, which will handicap the cards considerably as it restrict the amount of communication bandwidth between the video card and the laptop. Most newer video cards need at least a PCI-Express 8x slot in order not to run into bandwidth issues. Furthermore, if you try to get the display working through the laptop's screen, you have to do display cloning, which will put more stress on the video card as it has to provide output to not just one, but two sources.

It's not going to be that bad, but you really should check the DIY ViDock thread and do some major reading, it's quite informational. Just don't expect the same performance out of these cards compared to the ones that are running in a desktop tower. I'm seeing anywhere from fifty to seventy percent of the performance when these cards are running in a ViDock compared to a desktop.

 

With all the programs and games you'll be running, I think it would be more worth it if you sold your current laptop and bought either an Asus G50 or G51.

The G50 has:

2+ GHz C2D
4GB DDR2
Nvidia GeForce 9800m 512MB

and the G51 is basically the same but with an Nvidia GeForce 260m GTX 1GB video card.

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

so in theory, the idea of putting external graphics on my computer wont work

btw, im currently using a hacked 4500MHD vista x64 drivers for my x3100 so i can use the opengl on windows 7 x64 cause the drivers on the website on intel for windows 7 is slow as hell
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what i did to make x4500 drivers to work with x3100 was

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1. download the last vista x64 driver for X4500(15.​​13.​​6.​​1908 anything above won't work, it must be the zip version,)

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if you notice under the supported products, my chipset(GM965) isn't supported

2. extract the contents and go to the folder graphics, then open with notepad a file name igdlh64.inf

3. i apply the mod posted on adobe forums for the x4500 drivers to work with x3100 Adobe Forums: CS4 GPU Acceleration and Intel X3100

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BTW here's the procedure to mod drivers yourself (I modded newest vista drivers, the ones for win7 crash immediately after startup):


Go to the [Intel.Mfg] and change %iCNTG0% its value into iCNT0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2A02 ------------- (2A02 refers to your PCI ID *Mine in this case* -- You can obtain this from device manager)


Here the changes you need to do for x3100

from:
Code:
%iCNTG0% = iCNT0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2A42
%iCNTG1% = iCNT1, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2A43
%iEGLG0% = iEGL0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2E02
%iEGLG1% = iEGL1, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2E03
To:
Code:
%iCNTG0% = iCNT0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2A02
%iCNTG1% = iCNT1, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2A03
%iEGLG0% = iEGL0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2A12
%iEGLG1% = iEGL1, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2A13
you can at this point stop, but I found in my laptop the performance gets bad unless you change these (In our example you should apply this):
Code:
[iCNT0.GeneralConfigData]
MaximumNumberOfDevices = 2
MaximumDeviceMemoryConfiguration = 512

[iCNT1.GeneralConfigData]
MaximumNumberOfDevices = 2
MaximumDeviceMemoryConfiguration = 512

[iEGL0.GeneralConfigData]
MaximumNumberOfDevices = 2
MaximumDeviceMemoryConfiguration = 512

[iEGL1.GeneralConfigData]
MaximumNumberOfDevices = 2
MaximumDeviceMemoryConfiguration = 512
To:
Code:
[iCNT0.GeneralConfigData]
MaximumNumberOfDevices = 2
MaximumDeviceMemoryConfiguration = 256

[iCNT1.GeneralConfigData]
MaximumNumberOfDevices = 2
MaximumDeviceMemoryConfiguration = 256

[iEGL0.GeneralConfigData]
MaximumNumberOfDevices = 2
MaximumDeviceMemoryConfiguration = 256

[iEGL1.GeneralConfigData]
MaximumNumberOfDevices = 2
MaximumDeviceMemoryConfiguration = 256

does optimus rely on software(drivers) or hardware?

 

please stop abusing spoilers. they aren't relevant here. spoilers are intended to be used to prevent leaking surprise information. this is helpful technical information.

and then - nested spoilers. gah. nightmare.

 

this is extremely depressing

so my only realistic option right now is to go with Ultramon/Chung-Gun method in which has a major drawback that games and applications must be in window mode or else it won't work, i also need to buy resistors




i also experiment on what will happen if i remove my m-pcie wireless card and this is the result



so far here is the possible build i am looking at

#1 x1 1.0
PNY RVCG98GTEE1XXB GeForce 9800 GT 1GB 256-bit GDDR3(No externat PCI-E power) $69.99 + $6.98 Shipping + $5.77 TAX = $82.74

Rosewill RCW-700 DVI-I ( 24+5 ) Male to VGA HD15 Female Adapter $4.99 + $0.41 TAX + Free Shipping = $5.40

Power Wirewound Resistor 1W 75 ohm 5% $0.25 x5 $1.50 + $3.50 Shipping = $5

AC-DC 12V 80W 6.6A Switching Power Adapter (110/220V) $22.95 + Free Shipping

PE4L expressport(EC2C) $55 + $10 Shipping = $65

Total: $181.09


#2 x1 1.0 with an option to mPCIe to mini HDMI (PM3N)upgrade(to become x2 1.0)
PNY RVCG98GTEE1XXB GeForce 9800 GT 1GB 256-bit GDDR3(No externat PCI-E power) $69.99 + $6.98 Shipping + $5.77 TAX = $82.74

Rosewill RCW-700 DVI-I ( 24+5 ) Male to VGA HD15 Female Adapter $4.99 + $0.41 TAX + Free Shipping = $5.40

Power Wirewound Resistor 1W 75 ohm 5% $0.25 x5 $1.50 + $3.50 Shipping = $5

AC-DC 12V 80W 6.6A Switching Power Adapter (110/220V) $22.95 + Free Shipping

PE4H expressport(EC2C) $85 + $10 Shipping

Total: $211.09



#3 x2 1.0
PNY RVCG98GTEE1XXB GeForce 9800 GT 1GB 256-bit GDDR3(No externat PCI-E power) $69.99 + $6.98 Shipping + $5.77 TAX = $82.74

Rosewill RCW-700 DVI-I ( 24+5 ) Male to VGA HD15 Female Adapter $4.99 + $0.41 TAX + Free Shipping = $5.40

Power Wirewound Resistor 1W 75 ohm 5% $0.25 x5 $1.50 + $3.50 Shipping = $5

AC-DC 12V 80W 6.6A Switching Power Adapter (110/220V) $22.95 + Free Shipping

PE4H expressport(EC2C)
and
mPCIe to mini HDMI (PM3N)
$85 + $20.00 + $10 shipping = $115

mini hdmi to mini hdmi $5.61 + Free Shipping

Total: $236.7 and that is not including all the taxes


no one really seems to understand this matter so i want to raise this question again

if i go into the x1 1.0 route, how can i make it x1E?
the guide didn't mention if i need to PHYSICALLY put a mPCIe to mini HDMI (PM3N) cable's and stuff.
all it says is theory that i need to combine an odd port and an even port to achieve x2 because the card is running at half duplex which in the theoretical speed of the port is running only half or 50% so it will make the port work twice as fast to compensate for the cards half duplex

so let me simplify it
DO I NEED TO PHYSICALLY PULL OUT MY M-PCIE WIRELESS CARD SO THAT THE PORT WILL BE OPEN?
IS MAGICALLY TURNING A X1.0 TO X1E IS ALL DONE IN SOFTWARE OR I SHOULD PURCHASE AND PUT THE mPCIe to mini HDMI (PM3N) AND CABLE???

 

wow that is a schocker