8800m gts

do you guys think the 8800m gts G92 revision A2 has the same SP has the gtx? but they just locked them??

 

they laser cut the SP

 

is there a way to unlaser cut them or something?

 

when they're cut, they're gone...

 

maybe there's a way to ungone them or something?

 

you mean... like a spell? resurrection!!! lol

 

they are physically gone.

 

if your good with chips and stuff is there a way to add them back?

 

Wait, howabout somehow soldering the connection again. Anything that's cut can always be reattached somehow either through bandages, or whatever. If they can do that for our arteries and nerves, why not hardware? (ugh, too much House MD)

 

yea thats what i was wondering also if you can resolder the missing sp's anyone know if this is possible?

 

if you have machine for you to work under 65nm environment, you should go for it lol

 

how do you know they are cut? there is an ongoing discussion here http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=225982 about unlocking the bios and turning the 8800M gts into a gtx or so i gather, it would be a major disappointment if it's not a soft prob, but a hardware thing but it'll save them some time i guess if you know for sure the it's been cut

btw Nirvana i love that avatar did you draw it? because it's sweet man

 

um.. are you serious? These are not huge transistors we are talking about here. We are working with objects thousands of times smaller than your hair.

Now, I am all for overclocking, and getting the most out of everything. But there comes a point where you have to be realistic. You bought an 8800 GTS, and should expect nothing more. If we could get it, great, but still...

 

I don't expect to get more than what I paid for, just wishful thinking. I'm plenty happy with what I have currently. Although it does seem a bit nuts to go out of their way to "destroy" a part of their product and sell that version. More labor for less.

 

Actually, it is not more labor.

If they wanted a chip with only 2/3s the pipes, without cutting, they would actually have to design a whole new chip, which is far more expensive than any laser cutting. It is in fact cheaper to only have to make one chip (meaning only one type of tooling for the production line), and laser cut as needed.

 

Makes me think, why not just leave it as is? Laser cutting it and then selling it for less isn't doing them any favors. It's kind of like trying to sell a house, but then you break the backdoor on purpose then sell the house for less. Makes you wonder why even do it to begin with.

 

I would love to talk to someone in the marketing/design at Nvidia.

We just destroy a working GTX to make a GTS? I wonder if the GTS is a failed version of the GTX, maybe like CPU's to be used as a slower rating.

Then again marketing may call the shots to make an entry level 8800?

 

it not really like the house analogy you used zergslayer69, it actually a good marketing strategy, see they are well aware that if they only cover the high end gaming market they can only "skim" the most dedicated and/or high income market, which may not sell enough for the chip to be viable so instead of making two different chips, they use there resources for one then modify it at the end of production so they can hit both markets but still benefit from economies of scale.

back to the housing analogy it fits this scenario better, consider that you have to houses that are identical and two buyers. one buyer is well off and is offering 200,000 for the house, the other buyer is poor and can only offer 100,000. now both buyers are aware of each other and if you sell the house to the second buyer for 100,000 the first will also only by his house for 100,000 so therefore what do you do. either don't sell one house or sell both either way you only make 200,000. the solution is break down the door in the second house, so the first buyer is buying a improved version of the house so willing to pay more and the second can also buy without the first buyer feeling ripped off

but they still could of done this with software and not altered the hardware after all lasers are expensive and any addition to the production line cost money, (in time, labour, electricity ect.), software is a much cheaper option

really shows the mark up they are putting on the GTX

which brings me to my previous question
does anybody know for sure that the GTS has in fact been cut?

 

I dunno, I'm still convinced that nvidia is not doing themselves or us any service. They make a perfectly good video card that can sell for (just an example) say $500 dollars. Then they damage it by cutting a component, and then sell it for say $400. It's the same exact card but damaged to sell for a lower price. Any body trying to earn money with half a brain knows that just leaving the item in its original form would net more profit.

If they really want to turn heads, they should not tamper with their original product and sell that at the lower price, no need for cutting, and they get the same amount they're currently getting with the GTS, and we consumers are happy. I guess that isn't happening because it makes too much sense. =\

 

well guys.... i really don't think they broke anything personally. it's just the way the chip is made. we dont even know they cut them. they may really be made with only 64 and the next chip was made with 96. bottom line...we have a very nice card in a lappy that they thought really wouldn't fly. most home machines dont even have 8800 cards in them, except for the serious gamer or encoder or the i want the best of everything person. so lets leave the laser cutting and patching alone because like the man above said...them pipelines are 100 times smaller than a piece of hair. and no one is that good!!! machine yes...human....don't think so...(speculation of course)

 

Hehe by House he means the show, not houses ^^

Oh haha, you and your houses~

 

Well my first mention was about the show, but my example was about a regular home =p (btw, House rocks)

 

Most likely 1 or more of the SP's were not fuctioning properly on the 8800m GTS chip after the fab process was complete, which is why it was laser cut (or whatever crippled it to 64 SP's instead of 96). This allows them to sell the partially functioning 8800m GTX as a GTS with 64 of the SP's functional, instead of just throwing it in the trash. It would be amazing if there was a way to reactivate them but I dont hold much hope for that.

Matt

 

If the situation is as Element explained, then yes, this is a very smart move on nvidia's part. But to manufacture that many semi-faulty 8800's is mind boggling.

 

theres a way to soft mod the chips which i read online and activate any other sp's if there are any but my rivatuner doesnt let you customize the gts for some reason

 

AMD is actually doing these with their "TRUE QUAD" cores that fail being quad cores and sell and market them as TRI-CORES. From what I read somewhere, they are selling pretty good too as they are cheaper than the quads and some of intels dual cores. I have seen these at Sam's Club, etc. God Bless

 

Actually they end up with partially working gpus (and CPU's, as in the AMD example with the triple cores) more often than you would think. I remember reading somewhere that your average yield per wafer is around 70-80%. Meaning only 70-80% of the gpus or cpus on any wafer of silicon are functioning. Of those functioning gpus, some are left with bad areas of the core where the silicon is not high enough quality to operate correctly leaving the manufacturer with a dead core, unless they can find a way to disable the non-functioning part of the silicon. So instead of just throwing it in the garbage nvidia and other chip makers test each individual part of the core for functionality and if the chip can operate fine with 32 of its SP's disabled then they can sell it as a GTS chip instead of GTX, thus increasing their yields.

There are other marketing reasons involved too, this is not the only reason they do this.

Another good example of this was the vanilla version of the Geforce 6800. It had 12 pixel pipelines and 5 vertex processors. The 6800 GT and Ultra had 16pp, and 6vp. The vanilla version just had 4pp, and 1vp disabled via software. Most of these vanilla versions had the extra pp, and vp disabled because 1 of them wasnt operating correctly. I own one of these cards, and I was able to turn on the extra 4pp, but the 1vp that had been disabled would not work right. When enabled, the extra vertex processor would cause all sorts of issues with every 3d application. Artifacts, tearing, crashing, etc. So I just ran the card with the last vp disabled.

Matt

 

that sounds logical or it could just be that they just manufacture 2 different chips one with 96sp and the other with 64 like the same car with different options in it.

but if its true that a gts is a faulty gtx that means that those extra sp's are software locked or maybe they are lazer cut but speaking as a corporation which is in business for profits why would they pay more money to laser cut them, when software is cheaper!

so if its software that means there are a few working sp's in the chip, because not all the gts would have the same faulty 32 pipelines.

i know how to softmod with the rivatuner, but when i click on the customize button for the 8800m gts the video card icon does not show up only the screen monitors show up

http://forum.notebookreview.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18966&d=1211793043

thats where the picture is where you can see what im talking about before those pictures of the 2 screens is supposed to be the video card icon but it doesnt show up. it only shows up for the driver customization.

if any1 can help me with this, i know how to softmod with it and will be able to tell you guys if there are any extra sps

 

he is talking about here....

 

yea john how can i get there?? and have you been able to see if the gts has any locked sp's?

 

nope, just started on this line of thinking after i figured out what it was you we're talking about.

not really sure, but this option seems to be disabled with quite a few laptops.

 

yea thats the problem, and i dont know how to enable it

 

im not sure that will work or do anything i know it worked for the older cards like the 6 series i tried it on my 8600m gt and it didnt unlock anything, but i just want to give it a try but it disabled for some reason