Decided to upgrade my 7811 FX to a T9800 or T9600...question about the mobile processor market

Hello folks, I'm new here, this is my first message.

After hours of searching the web and this forum in particular (you guys are a GREAT source of info, thanks so much!!!) for suggestions about the best upgrade for my "stock" P-7811 FX, I'm arrived to the following conclusion...please tell me if my assumptions are wrong.

1) The P-7811 BIOS doesn't support Quad Core processors (and very few games use that feature efficiently anyway)

2) The BIOS doesn't support overclocking, so getting a a X9100 is pointless and costly

3) The best performance are obtained with the T9800 or the latest T9900...these processor should be able to work just "plug and play" no need to upgrade the BIOS, etc...just boot the machine and done.

So is this correct??

Few questions....

1) Do I necessarily need to undervolt?? I do not care about battery life, I'm almost permanently plugged in wherever I go.

2) When I change the processor there is anything I can do to improve cooling??? (I know undervolting does that, I mean beside that)

3) Why there is not a "clear" market for mobile processor?? I mean I cannot buy them even at specialized electronic stores (like Fry's)???
My impression so far is that this is some sort of "gray" area, you can buy processor off E-bay or Amazon from someone that pulled it out of a working system or some small foreign manufacturer that sells them on the side, you need to be careful on who you dealing with, if they sell repackaged engineering examples, etc....can I buy a OEM boxed mobile processor with warranty and so on like a regular desktop processor??? If yes, where?? Money (up to a point) is not a problem, i would pay few dollars more to get a brand new boxed version with warranty.

What is the best deal for a T9800 or T9900 at the moment and where??

Lastly

My graphic drivers are version 7.15.11.7580 released on 5/14/2008..there is anything more recent?? What is the best driver at the moment??

Thank you a lot in advance for your comments.

Regards

 

The reason why mobile processors are hard to come by is because on the scale of things there isn't much need for them, most people who own notebooks barely even know how to upgrade the RAM (if that) and feel that replacing the processor isn't something they'd want to do because of limited computer knowhow. I know I'm being stereotypical here but lets face it, most of the people who post a lot on this forum are computer nerds (me included) which isn't very representative of the whole population of laptop users.

To put it shortly, people either don't know they can upgrade/don't want to/don't do the sort of things that would need a speed increase/don't even know what a "processor" is and what all the numbers mean.

To answer your question about heat, appart from increasing the battery life undervolting also makes it run less hot which will mean less fan trouble on an already fan troublesom laptop. Appart from undervolting you will have to apply some thermal compound to the new processor rather than the heat pad it came with, this might knock a degree or so of the temperature.

I really would reccomend that you undervolt though because a faster processor will normally be a hotter one too

 

Your information in the first part is correct minus maybe a nitpicky irrelevent points or two.

Newegg sells retail processors. but you can get the final stepping on an ES chip for at least a hundred bucks or more cheaper on ebay and has full retail functrionality. That's what i did and i think most here do. extremeprocessors is a great seller of cpu's on ebay. many of us have bought from him.

you have a 7811? if so i wouldn't worry bout undervolting. These babies run ice cold. If your having problems with temps clean out your vents and/or prop up the back of the laptop with something like two dvd cases or bottle caps. It's just as effective and much cheaper than a cooler.

Here are some recent video drivers. I use the official nvidia ones. because they maintain complete nonbuggy functionality and offer as far as i can tell the same performance as "newer" modded drivers...

 

I installed a T9900 last week in my P-7811 FX, it doesn't run "ice cold", but does have acceptable temps. Before undervolting, the processor would idle in the 36-40C range and reach 71-73C during stress testing, now, depending on the ambient temps, it idles at 26-29C and reaches 61-63C under load (I use CPUGenie). I'd recommend the T9800-9900 for people looking to upgrade, here you'll an extra 3GB of cache built into the CPU, as well as a 450-700MHz bump in core speed....which will make a difference of 15-25% in performance. I see a lot of people grab the T9600 or P9600, but I'm not sure thats really worth the time or money. Another thing it keep in mind is that the stock P8400 is a 25W processor, the T9800-9900 are 35W processors, and the X9100 is a 45W processor. I've had no problem with temps, but that 45W processor scare me because I don't think long term it would be good for the board.......and its expensive.

The reason you won't find any mobile processors at Frys or any other brick and mortar store is because there is no market for them. Building a desktop is fairly easy, and widely done. Building a notebook is a pain in the butt, and to be honest, 99.9% of people arent looking for a hotrod in a notebook system...they are looking for portability.

I bought mine off Flea Bay from a guy on the East Coast ( computerupgradekings), but many here recommend this guy from Taiwan ( extremeprocessor), he has a very good reputation.

As far as improving the cooling performance, you can pick up a good notebook cooler, you can replace the thermal compound on the CPU and chipset, or you can undervolt. While I've done all three and seen a dramatic improvement in temps....even with no mods the T9900 runs well within its specified temperatures.

 

Guys thanks to all for your comments..keep it coming!!

Capper


If I'm not mistaken I believe that the X9100 would be a totally waste of money because your cannot overclock it on a Gateway laptop board/BIOS. So it's a moot point. The X series has appeal because of its overclockability, without that.....

Frankly I would not even bother to upgrade, even very recent games run extremely well on my stock P-7811 FX.

Unfortunately I'm an avid Flight Simulator user and Microsoft still doesn't know that there are very sophisticated video cards nowdays
Most of the heavy lifting in the FS series is still done by the CPU, consequently my FSX run so so on my Laptop...FS2004 runs very very well instead.

I think 700 MHz and double the cache may help.

 

Yes, aside from the fact that there is no overclocking with the P-7811 FX (at least yet), the X9100 is more expensive, and a 45W processor. With the T9900 you get almost the exact same processor (minus the unlocked multiplier), its cheaper, and its 35W.

For your needs, I'd recommend the T9900, some good thermal paste, and undervolting. There is a fantastic undervolting guide published here, and I'm sure we'll all help you get the most out of whichever processor you choose.

 

Guys

Af far as you know, the Quad Core support in the BIOS for the P-7811 FX is definitely not going to happen in the future??? (apart for the potential thermal issues).

I never heard of anyone successfully running a quad core on a P-7811 FX.

And, if i understand correctly, even if the BIOS would support it, you would need to change the heatsink because physical differences between the 2 chips....right??

In few words, it's not worth it I think....

 

That, and to be perfectly honest....very few software applications are optimized to run on four cores.

 

Hey capper, did you change your thermal pads when you changed to t9900? I read about changing the stepbystep when u upgrade the cpu, but it seems like im too scared to do it. But i really want to upgrade my cpu. If you dont mind, if you can pm me on how to do it step by step, recommendations, for upgrading my cpu. I already ordered the p9600. But maybe ill cancell it so i can get the t9900 instead. You seem so nice and know what your doing thats why i asked. Id appreciate it bro if you can help me out.

 

Capper


Actually if you do not mind, please post the step by step procedure here for all of us to see.

Thank you!!!

 

Remove the large cover from the bottom of the notebook. The cover is secured by way of six small black phillips head screws.



The far end of the copper heat sink is secured by a single spring loaded phillips head scew. Loosen the screw completely without removing it from the bracket.



The heat sink is secured over the CPU socket by 4 phillips head screws. CAREFULLY remove these



CAREFULLY remove the heatsink by gently lifting straight up. Pay particular attention to the end with the fins, as it's pretty tight in there.



After removing the heat sink, clean the processor with Arctic Clean.



Replace the generic thermal compound and thermal pad with the thermal compound of your choice (ICD7, which explains the generous application.)



It would be a good idea to clean out the entire compartment, to include the fan and heat sink fins. Gently push the heat sink down into the compartment, and move it around slightly to spread the thermal compound (creating a bond). Replace the screws, starting with those around the CPU socket (Doing so diagonally to make sure the heat sink seats properly and the thermal compound spreads evenly). Replace the notebook cover, and test it out!

Removing/Replacing the CPU



As to replacing the CPU, on the right side of this image you see a flat head screw. You'll turn that and it releases the CPU from the socket. Don't crank on it, but it does take a little force (you'll see the CPU shift in the socket when it loosens. Then gently lift it out of the socket. Remember, these arent like desktop processors, these have the pins on them, and they are very delicate.

 

subscribed.

thanks for those sick photos

 

Wow i have asked alot of people if they couldxhelp me out step by step, youre the only one responded with detailed procedure. Thank you very much rep

 

And by the way one more thing, do we have to do something else on the device manager? Will the computer recognize the new cpu right away? Do we have to do anything in the bios? Such things to do after the swap?

 

After installing the CPU, go into the device manager and uninstall the processors (there will be two entries for INTEL P8400), then reboot, it will update the entry to the new CPU for you.

 

nice pictures and guide Capper! bookmarked this quickly incase I need a little picture guide referance and tips

 

I just wish the P9700 would come out in bulk. +10W TDP and ~200Mhz just isn't that important to me.

 

If you guys need pics of something, or a guide, hit me up via PM and I'll do whatever I can. I have a 100mm Tamron Macro lense exactly for this purpose.

 

Thank You Capper

EXTREMELY informative explanation and guide!!!

The forum administrator should make you guide a sticky!!!

Thanks Again!!

Regards

 

Thanks so much 4 the photos I think they are truly awesome, would be cool to record replacing the CPU and up it on you tube or something. Plus rep.
I think I might go for the T9900!! So what does undervolting do to the CPU? Changes the 3.06 to the max which the mobo can use 3ghz? Also what scores do you get for 3Dmark06 and windows assessment under CPU??

 

Thats my plan. I have a Canon HG10 camcorder and was going to do a short video on replacing the CPU....let me see how my evening goes.

 

I would suggest a larger drop on the nothbridge. Since it holds the possiblity of need more to fill the "GAP"...........

 

capper, I changed my last post....could you take a quick look at it?

 

INTEL doesnt take every individual processor and test it for the power requirements, they simply test several processors (ES chips) and from the results generate specs that they program into all their CPUs in that particular family...lots of different things play into what makes processors unique...where it came from on the platter, where it was made, stepping, etc.....and as such the requirements are going to be slightly different for each CPU (there is a lot more to this story, but I dont want to go on and on)......what this means for you in this instance is that my processor may run at .900v clear up to the 8.5 multiplier, while yours may require .925v at the 7.0 multiplier.

By using CPUgenie, or RMClock and Orthos, you can find the minimum stable voltage for each multiplier your processor offers. This makes your notebook run much cooler, and extends the battery charge....and possibly extend the life of your notebook and CPU.

I recommend CPUgenie because it recognizes the half multipler where RMClock doesn't. It also has a built in stability testing program. The drawback to CPUgenie is that its not free, but has a 15 day trial. RMClock has a better interface in my opinion, but the half multiplier issue kinda kills it for me.

As to the 3.0GHz limit, that bunk. I've tested mine every which way and in the BIOS as well as every monitoring program my CPU shows up as a 3.06GHz processor.

As to test results. I'll try to run some comparisons (I've been promising that for a week, but have had other obligations). I'd say depending on the application, the difference between a P8400 and T9900 is anywhere from 15-30%, which is fairly dramatic. My Windows score is at 5.7, and I've run PCMark Vantage and consistently see between 4000-4100.

I'll post some benchmarks when I get back tonight.

 

Just finished shooting the video, will post the link as soon as I get it uploaded to my YouTube page. Bear with me, I sound like a congested Forrest Gump......I am congested, and hate shooting videos.....I hope it helps.

 

Oh wow thanks man looking forward to see the guide and this video. thx for taking time to do that for us.

 

CPU Replacement Part 1

CPU Replacement Part 2


There you go, had to do some editing....if you notice any problems, let me know and I'll try to reshoot it.

 

This video has been removed because it is too long. Regular YouTube videos must be 10 minutes or less.

 

Yea, it doesnt work for me

 

Yea its been removed, guess you may have to cut the video into different uploads or use torrents, I would download it.

 

i Think maybe just cut videos into separate parts, like part 1 part 2.

 

wait, on the part where you said, after you take out the heatsink, clean the processor? (stock one)? or the new processor your going to put in/? and on the picture where the new thermal compund is put inn, whats that other one on the left side of the processor with thermal compund also? ahh im a bit confused on that part.

its the part where you said, " Replace the generic thermal compound and thermal pad with the thermal compound of your choice (ICD7, which explains the generous application.) "

 

CPU Replacement Part 1

CPU Replacement Part 2

You'll want to clean the "old processor" so you dont get thermal compound all over when you take it out. Wipe down the "new processor" because your skin has all kinds of oils in it, and you don't want anything foriegn stuch to the contact surface of the new processor (where it mates with the heat sink).

Thats the mainboard chipset, if the CPU is the brain of your system, the chipset is the heart of the system connecting all of the individual components together.

 

VERY WELL DONE all I can say man, its really detailed and very clear. Thanks so much. I dont knoe how im going to thank you for this. You really did a good job on filming this.

 

I kinda babbled my way through it...should have scripted it all out and made it more professional.

If you need any more help, let me know, I'll be around Friday evening.

 

Has anyone under volted the P8400? If so is it worth doing so?

 

yes, its very much worth undervolting. If I remember correctly I was able to run the 8.0 multi at .950V, and every multi below that was stable at .900v

 

Hmm just receivd my t9900, you guys think this will make a big improvement in my gaming?? Over my stock p8400. My 3dmark06 stock with 178.24 drivers out th box is 8779. You guys think thats pretty low? Hmm. Maybe ill try the 178.28 or .48 beta from nvidia. Does the driver have something to do with the cooling/heating of the gpu?

 

I played guildwars for about an hour, i alt tabbed to my hwmonitor max was 71. Dammit i think thats too hot. I think i should change my drivers pretty soon. My idle for gpu is 43-45C*

 

For gaming its going to make a difference, but maybe not as much as you want. Most games are very GPU intensive. To improve scores for 3DMark, or framerates while gaming, look into overclocking the GPU.

As far as temperatures are concerned, is that 71C for the GPU or the CPU? If its for the CPU, try undervolting the CPU to lower the temps. 71C is actually fine for both under load.....

Both your GPU and CPU should be fine well into the mid-80s (Actually I believe the Thermal spec for the T9900 is 105C (You don't want it anywhere near there for prolonged periods) and the thermal spec for the 9800M GTS is 110C (I believe). When the CPU and GPU get near their max temps, they will throttle down to protect themselves.

.....but if you are at 71C after an hour of gaming, you are actually doing very well.

 

Could you let us know your scores after your install of the T9900

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=235824

This guide can be used to undervolt your cpu on a desktop as well right? The desktop I am going to attempt to undervolt is in my sig.

 

You can use them, but you dont need these apps to undervolt a desktop, as all the settings in the BIOS are available. You'll want to disable all the thermal management (TM1/TM2, etc), and then just adjust the voltages downward, testing for stability as you go.

 

Hey capper, thanks for another informative response, but yea, that 71C* Max read by hwmonitor is for my gpu. My cpu never passed 56 under load, and guildwars is graphic intensive. I say that bcause, i play counter strike and my gpu just stays below 52C* or not even reach 50*. You think upgrading from stock will boost me some frames and 3dmark from the stock 178.24? Like to the beta 179.28/48? And will help some for dissipating some heat? Iono i read somewhere in the forum like, when you update your driver it sometimes helpa to cool down the gpu something like that.

For strife, heck yea, ill post up my results. But i will prolly end up doing the swap sometime next week because too much going on here at the house, im 21 and have a 3 years old, so, time is really hard sometimes when it comes to my hobby, got work and school also.

 

Capper
These are the results I got with my desktop, what do you think of them? Ohh and I did them with the programs as I was unaware they can be changed in the BIOS.


Default Temps running ORTHOS for 10 mins.
Core 0: 78C (172F)
Core 2: 75C (166F)
Core 1: 78C (172F)
Core 3: 75C (166F)
Voltage: 1.3250v

After running Orthos for 10 mins.
Under Volted
Core 0: 70C (157F)
Core 2: 68C (154F)
Core 1: 67C (152F)
Core 3: 63C (145F)
Voltage: 1.1625v (the lowest RightMark will let me lower it too)

Results
Core 0: -8C (-15F)
Core 2: -7C (-12F)
Core 1: -11C (-20F)
Core 3: -12C (-21F)
Voltage: -.750v less than stock

Computer sits idle somewhere between 52C (125F)

 

Ok....first as to the GPU and drivers....newer drivers are relased frequently to boost performance in certain games, or fix glitches. when you are gaming, you'll always want to go to the driver page and see what each release addresses. You can also look around the web at different forums. For instance, if the game you play has a support forum, see what others are talking about....what drivers they use, settings, etc. Sometimes its not a hardware or driver issue <cough>EA</cough>.

As far as your notebook temps, at 71C you are just fine......I'd look through the forums here because I do believe there are a couple GPU mod/overclocking threads which might help you out.

As far as your desktop, those are some really warm temperatures...even though the Q6600 is a hot processor. What cooler do you have? What case? How many fans and what type? Do you clean out the system frequently? Have you used zip ties or velcro strips and done any cable management in your case?

 

Capper,
Please keep in mind those are the temps after I run Orthos for about ten mins. On idle I am running around 120-130F. As for the case you can see a picture of it here
http://compreviews.about.com/od/maindesk/gr/GatewayGM5478.htm
I do use compressed air about every week or so to clean it out. And I do use zip ties to tie down the cables. I could up a picture of the inside if that helps more.

Also one other thing, I am getting two different temps with two different programs for the CPU, the info above was all done with Hardware Monitor but another program I use is Everest Ultimate and for example here are my current temps with both programs

The temps on the left are HWMonitor and the ones on the right are Everest
Core 0 123F vs. 106F
Core 1 120F vs. 111F
Core 2 129F vs. 113F
Core 3 116F vs. 102F

why such a big difference in temps? Which program is more accurate?

 

What cooler are you using? Those temps are still a little hot for that Q6600.....my guess is the generic INTEL cooler? I'd say that if you pick up a good aftermarket cooler like this one (my current favorite):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835887011
You'd see a 10-15C drop in temps.

 

I am using the generic INTEL cooler. I've never changed coolers before and kinda clueless how to do that. Also the above post I added some info.

How would you rate this cooler?
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...ooler&lp=5&type=product&cp=1&id=1218007082289

 

ok, you can run 10 different programs and get 10 different temperature measurements....and there is a rational explanation for that. If Intel, or AMD for that matter, provided or endorsed an extremely accurate temp measurement tool it would have a huge impact on the enthusiast market....they don't want you overclocking your processor, they want you to upgrade it.

If you notice, all the temp sensor programs are different, but modestly different 5-10C. By keeping things within a manageable range INTEL knows that the sensor apps are accurate enough for the general user......if a regular guy uses any apps, his temps will always fall within the safe operating range for a given processor.......but if the app is too accurate, it allows people to overclock every last drop of performance out of the processor.

But wait you say....I see the guys at Xtreme Systems doing all kinds of crazy stuff, sponsored by INTEL!!!! Thats true, its a balancing act.....they tell you not to OC your system (wink wink) and that doing so voids the warranty... then sponsor events and hand out incredibly performing CPUs to testers......its called marketing and everyone does it.

Changing the CPU cooler is extremely easy, and I'd be happy to walk you through it if you wanted.