Flash the timings of your DDR3 RAM (all P-78xx FX users)

Have you already changed the timings of your DDR3 RAM in your P-78xx?

if not, read the following.

first: I AM NOT RESPOSIBLE FOR WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR PC, ALL I CAN DO HERE IS TELL YOU WHAT CAN BE DONE BUT IT IS YOU AND YOU ONLY WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT YOUR PC ENDS UP LOOKING LIKE.


now, with that being said there are only two things that you have to consider:

1) if not done right, it can be dangerous and you can say goodbye to your RAM.

2) the increase in performance is minimal although in theory it is always an increase in performance and to put in in practice all you have to do is a lot of tests and

benchmarks to see how far you can push it.

oh, I almost forgot... and 3rd my keyboard doesn't work as it should, so you'll find really crazy typos in here. sorry.



the software you will need is called "THAIPHOON BURNER version 6.3.1.0 build 0720 Final".

the only unfortunate part of it is that you will need an 32bit version of windows to run it. it doesn't work on any x64 platform so don't even bother.

what I did was to install vista on a hd that I had laying around, but you can easily just create a dual boot OS on your laptop's hd and work from there.

in many parts of this guide you will find phrases like "soething that looks like this" or "something similar". the reason of this is because I am now running on my x64 vista

platform and have no access of the RAM software so it is all based on what I remember about it. but you'll understand what I mean once you'll have it open in front of you.
I had experience in the past with another software called SPDtool to flash the RAM's timings but this one is the first one available to this day taht supports DDR3 and in such

an awesome, easy and cool interface.

if you want to find out more about why you'd want to tighten or loosen the timings of your RAM, just google it around.

the following will be very messy, I hope you'll understand or get the gist of what I am saying. at this point, it would be very advisable for you to have the software open and

ready in front of you, before you go ahead with this, otherwise it'll make no sense to you at all.


so, assuming that you downloaded the right version of the sftware and have the right OS too, let's start with the fun.



since basically what you will end up doing is to FLASH the SPD of your RAM (almost like the BIOS for your PC but in this case it's just specific for the RAM), make sure you

ALWAYS FLASH (or write) only one RAM module at a time.

by saying this I mean, flip your laptop upside down and remove one RAM module and leave only one RAM module inserted on the PC.

this is very IMPORTANT because if you flash the RAM with wrong timings there is no turning back unless you have another good RAM module around. otherwise when you boot your

system it simply won't even turn on the monitor. it'll be like real dead and there is no Crysis Bios Recovery for this. ***so keep this in mind***

so, with only one RAM module in your PC boot up the system and open the Thaiphoon Burner software.

now, there is really a lot messs around with in here, actually even more than I have explored so feel free to try things but always remember to be extremely cautious.

first thing, locate the button that says "READ" and then select the RAM module installed in your PC (in your case there should be only one option available assuming that you

only left one module on your PC), typically something called "50h" or something like this.

once the software read your RAM, on your right hand side it should appead information about the RAM installed, type, speed, module density ect..

what you want to do now is to edit your RAM timings.

so press the button that says "EDITOR"

the editor window will open up and here you'll be able to experiment different timings for your RAM.

if you want ot go safe with it just choose the automatic setting.

this will allow you to choose from a list of JEDEC standars. you can find more about JEDECs on google if you are interested.

basically they are predefined standars where each JEDEC profile contains the same infarmation specific to a particular DDR3 module, regardless of the RAM's manufacturer.

this way you can confidently choose from a profile that fits into your RAM category.


so back to where I left if, what you can do here is to underclock your RAM to DDR3 800MHz or tighten the DDR3 1066MHz timings.

I have a 7805u and if you got yours at best buy we should all have the same type of RAM, even 7811fx.



in the automatic setting you'll find 3 types of DDR3 1066 standards. the first one that has very tight timings (is the one I ended up flashing my RAM with), the second one has

the same RAM specs of your gateway's RAM and it is called "1066F" (or something like this). the last one has very relaxed timings (I don't recommed flashing it unless for

testing purposes).

so in order: the 1st type has timings of cas 6.0-6-6-20

the 2nd type (the one you should see now on cpuz has cas timings of 7.0-7-7-24

the 3rd type has timings of 8.0-8-8-27



the first of course id the fastest one among all the flashable options. although you can even flash your RAM to 800MHZ but the only way that would work is if you'd be abe to

set timings for it of cas 4 or even cas 5 would be pretty decent. atherwise you just end up losing available bandwidth.

I would sacrifice bandwidth for an increase in speed, but I think you can go no further than cas 6, which in this case you would end up much better having it for your 1066 RAM

type.

if you find a way to do it manually and acheiveing great results, please feel free to share. otherwise just choose safely.

so once you have made your choice, click to next or ok and then in the pop up window choose to display the changes into the hex editor (or dump).

once in te hex editor you are just few steps from flashing your RAM but you frst need to correct the checksum.

so look over the menus for an option that says "correct checksum", click on it, confirm your selection then click on the button "WRITE"

choose the option WRITE FULL (or something like this) then select which RAM module you want to flash ( in your case it should be 50h or 52h or something similar) then choose

to write from the info on the hex editor.

wait until it's done flashing then reboot and run a few sisoft sandra tests to make sure that the timings aren't breaking down giving you random BSOD here and there.

when everything feels just fine, flash the second module and try everything on your x64 platform and share your thoughts.


if you think about it, it is really simple and straight forward. I know this looks like a total mess, but I don't have the time to put in well, additionally it's really late

now, my wife has called me to go to sleep 3 times in the last 10 minutes and tomorrow I gotta go to work really early, but trust me, like many of you I do too have the

enthusiasm of sharing things that are great and that can improve our laptop's performance.

so I hope maybe someone with more time can put it in nicely to be understood not only by power users.

enjoy





EDIT: 08/16/2009

before flashing make sure you have a version of windows running in 32-bit and REMOVE one RAM module from your PC, so if you screw up something, just plug in the second RAM

module, boot up and start all over again, by flashing the corrupted module with the oiginal Samsung module. then again, remove one RAM module from your pc.

steps to do it:

get the latest version of Thaiphoon Burner, open the program then choose the button "open" (or open file) then select the profile you want to flash from the file you have

unzipped, then click on the button "write" then select which RAM module to write, typicaly either 50h, 52h or both if all RAM modules are installed (but do one at a time if

you are not sure).

select the option to write from file then choose again your profile. that's it! reboot and test the single RAM module with sisoft sandra 2009 to make sure it is stabe and you

don't get BSODs (I suggest you download sisoft sandra 2009 and save it in a usb or external HD then install it into your 32-bit windows platform).


One cool thing is that after you flashed your RAM you can check right away with CPUZ the new timings and freq. in the timings list, before having to reboot, so if you think

something is not correct reflash the module back with the appropriate values, then reboot.

***VERY IMPORTANT*** (only if you modify any of the files or if you make your own custom timings, this do not apply to the files I am posting here)

after you made your own profile, make sure that before flashing the SPD's RAM, you select an option called "Correct Checksum" in the menu bar list (I believe it's called

EEPROM). failing to do so will result into a corrupted RAM module, so be sure to do your homework before flashing.

 

I want to know the before/after boot times.

Everyone always asks about 8 GB of memory, I've always wanted lower latency RAM. 4 GB is more than enough for me, but in the past I have benefited greatly from adjusting RAM timings.

I want to hear more input on this.

 

by "boot times", do you mean how fast it boots up into windows?

for that it doesn't really change, and if it does I cannot even tell.

if you meant in general, well then things are different.

perhaps not so much in windows explorer readiness and experience in general, but for sure in FPS.

the benchmarks demonstrate it.

the performance is minimal but it still is an assured performance gain.

before flashing my RAM's SPD I only ran futurmark 03 benchmark.

my score was/is:

before: 30640

after: 30686

then I looked into each single benchmark's result and found that almost all of the test had improved.
as low as 0.2 FPS to 1.3 FPS in one case.
only one test resulted 0.1 less than the original score, but I ascribe that to circumstances that are not connected to the benchmark itself.

I don't like to overclock laptops, in fact I leave the video card's core and memory freq to the default factory settings.

Running with tight RAM timings is not something that I personally consider potentially bad (I am speaking from my personal past experience with flashing RAM with tight

timings, but I might be wrong, it could actually weaken your hardware but, as I said I have never had any problems in the past and I certainly don't see this being more

dangerous than a CPU overclock or than a GPU OV), therefore I believe that any additional extra-juice, even if minimal; it's always very welcome.

I was looking for this mod since I bought this laptop, but there was no way to flash DDR3 RAM until now.
I am glad I flashed it, now It's done and I don't have to think about it anymore.

the reason I wanted to share this is becasue someone might find a way to get extra juice with a different setting then share it with the rest of us. there is a lot to look

into that flashing software.

a really good thing would be to flash the RAM to 800MHZ instead of 1066MHz and to set timings of cas 4 or cas 5.

I did it, but I was only able to get a cas 6 for it, which happens to be the minimum supported cas timing for the 1066MHz RAM installed in the p-78xx FX (at least the 7805u

for sre).

so that was the only reason I didn't keep it to 800MHz, because there was no speed gain at all, actually a performance loss due to a decrease in available bandwidth.

the only tedious thing you have to do is to install a 32 bit version of windows for this to work. I know it's silly, but I did it, just to flash the ram, didn't even care to

install driverrs, connect to the internet, ect...

I hope you can find this helpful

 

Good post One J. Not sure if it's worth the risk though. Are you sure SPDTool doesn't work with DDR3 by the way?

 

hi iaTa, thanks!

well, in my opinion a CPU overclock looks more dangerous and certainly a GPU overclock in a laptop to me seems almost fatal.

perhaps I should be less drastic, but the problem is that I these gateway laptops probably do not have the most reliable electronic components.

I remember when I first bought my 7811fx, I had to change it 3 times (I was shocked! never happened to me before).
then when I bought the 7805u I knew what I was going to face, in fact this time I had to change it twice before the current system. so far it seems rock solid.

so, in the end if I have to choose I prefer modding the RAM and not the GPU that is installed in the mainboard.

I want to keep this laptop for a full year still, which means that I might end up keeping it even longer than that, so if the RAM breaks I can still cheange it.

so far I never had problems changing the timings of the RAM modules. first time I did it was 9 years ago with a pentium III and 512mb of RAM.

if you think about it, desktop mainboards allow you to change these settings manually in the BIOS (I am not talking about CPU multipliers and FSB though).

so in y opinion this whole procedure is safe and I hope many users can benefit from it.

I'm sure it can go a little beyond cas 6.0 for our RAM, but I think we would be really pushing the limits, therefore we should not complain if something happens, me included

during this weekend I will try to save a profile to be used with Thaiphoon Burner and post it so that others can flash their SPDs without any risks by using this cas 6.0 profile.

talk soon,

 

I forgot to say... SPDtool 0.63 doesn't seem to allow users to change DDR3 timings.
It does somehow see the DDR3 memory modules but doesn't fully recognize all of the values

 

I would love Cas6 but am not willing to go an get another drive just to get a 32 bit os installed just for this. I wonder though if we can get the SPD to Cas5 with these; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104103

 

TANWare:

you don't necessarily need another HD to install a 32 bit OS. the reason I did was becasue I had one laying around, but you could shrink the patition of your HD then install it in the new partition. once you've done that you could flash your RAM then delete the partition with a freeware program that allows you to modify vista's boot entries, then after that you simply delet the new partition then re connect the empty space into your primary partiion. result? like it never happened. altough it actually did, casue fresh installations are always a pain. but you don't have to install the laptop's drivers for this to work.

it would be awesome to be able to flash the RAM with cas 5.
you just gave me an idea. I will try one of those XMP rated profiles to see if I can go cas 5 with these modules. but I doubt it.

 

so this dont work on ddr2 ram then or is their a separate program for it im running vista x64bit.....what consequences is their from using this sort of flashing program?

 

for DDR2 RAM I suggest using SPDtool 0.63, you can find it around.

but as usual, be careful when changing the timings. make sure you remove one of your RAM modules from your PC and test the your values on the module in your PC.

these values are permanent, it's not like in desktop boards, that you run all of this via BIOS and if something goes wrong you can always reboot.

once, with DDR2 RAM I messed too much with the timings so that I was not alble to boot even with both modules installed. I then attempted a "HOT SWAP" of the RAM (not recommended at all times), basically I booted the system with the good RAM in it then once in windows I inserted the non-recoverable module in the PC with the windows all running, then I reflashed the bad module and that way I was able to revor it.

that worked with SPDtool but might not work with another software or even OS. so don't try it.

I talk a lot about doing things safely and to not overclock if possibe, and by reading this it might sound I am not being coherent with what I say.

but unfortunately you gain experience by screwing up things, and sometimes even by breaking them.

I screwed up a lot in the past, therefore I share now things that worked and things that didn't so that we can prevent disasters to happen.

as to your question, there isn't really any bad consequence as long as you don't get BSODs.

for example: if you undervolt too much your system becomes unstable, then it indicates that some values are not working or, if you overclock too much then you get a similar scenario.

changing the timings of your RAM works no different. by running after every drop of performance here and there you might find a weak point in your system.

so in the end it's all about your own personal judgemnt and good sense of what is right.

so for instance you shouldn't flash your RAM with settings of 1333MHz or cas 2.0 if you clearly know it will not support it or it was not meant to be.

I hope this is helpful

 

can i render my laptop useless if i do something wrong or will the ram be only affected do u happen to know what values will be suitable for my timings at this moment are....5-5-5-15 u think i can go 4-4-4-12 or no


B T W= +rep for your help

 

to my knowledge, only the RAM is affected by this mod.

for instance, you wouldn't be touching the FSB so all peripherials are safe.

if something goes wrong, only your RAM should be affected, not the entire PC.

as for your RAM, in my other laptop I have DDR2 RAM with 5-5-5-15 and with SPDtool I was able to change it manually to 5-4-4-12.

one of the DDR2 modules wouldn't boot with 4-4-4-12, the other one would though.

but for default I had to work a setting that would be stable for both modules, so 5-4-4-12 did it for me

and I still got a slight increase in performance on the tests

 

another thing is that cheap RAM modules won't allow you to write the SPD.

so you'd be stuck with what you have.

I know for sure that Hynix RAM doesn't allow it, at least in 512mb and 1gb modules. maybe there is a way to unlock this with Thaiphoon Burner cause I did see an option called "protect" or "lock", but I'm not sure.

but Patriot ones do let you write

 

I come back with exciting news

I am sorry if I go too long with writing, but I took the time to do this therefore I'd like to share some thoughts.


I have been messing around with most (but not all) possible timings combinations for DDR3 1066MHz and DDR3 800MHZ

and I bring back RAM profiles of all kinds and flavors to be flashed with Thaiphoon Burner (32-bit only).

first, the brand name for the RAM equipped with my 7805u is "Samsung", which I believe it should be the same for all p-78xxfx laptops (check it before you do anything else).

although, even if it ends up being of a different brand, I believe you could still Flash if not all, some of the profiles. perhaps not the most aggressive ones.

in the end, DDR3 JEDEC standard profiles should work on every RAM module (in theory, I'm not sure of what I am saying), but of course you'd have to pay attention to one

important detail, RAM module size and density. so don't flash 1GB DDR3 RAM with these 2GB DDR3 RAM profiles.

so I came up with the following JEDEC profiles and non-JEDEC profiles (custom made by me):

the original Samsung profile DDR3 1066MHz: cas 7.0-7-7

DDR3 1066MHz cas 6.0-6-6

DDR3 800MHz cas 6.0-6-6

DDR3 800MHZ cas 5.0-5-5

non-JEDEC custom profile DDR3 800MHz 5.0-4-4



I only ran sisoft sandra 2009 RAM bandwidth benchmarks and future mark 03 benchmarks.

I don't have results to post for sisoft sandra but I do for futuremark 03.

futuremark 03 benchmark results:

DDR3 800MHz cas 5.0-4-4 score: 30676

DDR3 1066MHz cas 6.0-6-6 score 30697



so the winner among all the ram profiles is DDR3 1066 cas 6.0-6-6 although, by looking specifically into each test's score, some tests had a higher score with the profile DDR3

800MHz 5.0-4-4 and even the CPU test was abundantly higher with the same profile vs the DDR3 1066MHZ.


I am not an expert, but I have documented myself during the years on these subjects, so the reason to this might be the following:

if you run a sisoft sandra memory bandwidth test, you'll notice that it'll show you the chipset's maximum bandwidth with a value of 8.xxx GB/s
and for your ram it will show you a value of 18.xxx or 16.xxx GB/s, practically the double or more maximum bandwidth.

it also gives you at the very bottom a hint which recommends you to increase FSB speed while keeping memory consistent as to balance the gap. so basically you'd have to

overclock the cpu's fsb to achieve a higher bandwidth and, perhaps lower the RAm's maximum bandwidth as to find a more stable balance between the two. (works great on desktops

but not on laptops).

all of this is because your ram is in dual channel so basically it doubles the amount of available bandwidth but... is that available bandwidth really used or it's all wasted?
is it maybe used by the video card, which would explain why in the properties the video card it would display Total Graphics Memory over 2800 GB while the installed physical

memory is clearly 1024mb or 512mb?

one last thing, then is that whole memory even really being used? or is it just a way to dump available memory bandwidth the system bus cannot use to the next device that

woun't use it either? I mean which games out there can utilize 2800GB of graphics memory today?


all of the above I don't know, as I said I am not an expert, but I like to test pc components and try to found out more about them. perhaps someone can explain all of the

above questions, validate them or deny them.


you have to picture the RAM's bandwidth as a big highway or freeway with perhaps 5 lanes where the cars (seen as information) go to a certain speed limit, let's say 60Mph.

on the other hand, the freeway connected to the CPU (FSB) is considerably samller, perhaps only 3 lanes, so a bottleneck occurs.

the reason you might want to use RAM DDR3 800MHZ or less, is so that you turn the RAM's freeway into a 4 lanes or close to 3, as to further balance the flow of information

that passes through. additionally the new RAM's freeway has a speed limit of let's say 75 or 80Mhp compared to the other 60Mph. so the cars (information) go much faster.

this could explain why the CPU tests in futuremark 03 (it might actually be a different scenario on fmark05 or 06) show to be faster on a 800MHz tight timing vs a 1066MHZ more

relaxed timings.

and the final results being actually higher with the 1066MHz profile (in futuremak 03) could be ascribed to external circumstances playing an important role, as your video

card actually utilizing the available bandwidth.


so please, with the profiles I will post, do run all the tests you want and share your conclusions. it might be really helpful to many of us (me included).


MY CONCLUSIONS:

if you run 3d modeling software like Maya, autoCAD, 3DS MAX, Solidworks, ect... you might want to have a profile of DDR3 800MHz with tight timings, this is because the CPU

comunicates faster and having the video card not playing at all in this during rendering it would make more sense.

if you are a hardcore-gamer then I suggest you choose a profile of DDR3 1066MHz, being in the end the fastest option for graphics intensive games.


if I figure out a way to, I will post the zip file with all of the profiles I came up with, here in this post and on the first post of the first page as well.

the zip fie is about 2 kb in size. pretty small.


before flashing make sure you have a version of windows running in 32-bit and REMOVE one RAM module from your PC, so if you screw up something, just plug in the second RAM

module, boot up and start all over again, by flashing the corrupted module with the oiginal Samsung module. then again, remove one RAM module from your pc.

steps to do it:

get the latest version of Thaiphoon Burner, open the program then choose the button "open" (or open file) then select the profile you want to flash from the file you have

unzipped, then click on the button "write" then select which RAM module to write, typicaly either 50h, 52h or both if all RAM modules are installed (but do one at a time if

you are not sure).

select the option to write from file then choose again your profile. that's it! reboot and test the single RAM module with sisoft sandra 2009 to make sure it is stabe and you

don't get BSODs (I suggest you download sisoft sandra 2009 and save it in a usb or external HD then install it into your 32-bit windows platform).


One cool thing is that after you flashed your RAM you can check right away with CPUZ the new timings and freq. in the timings list, before having to reboot, so if you think

something is not correct reflash the module back with the appropriate values, then reboot.

***VERY IMPORTANT*** (only if you modify any of the files or if you make your own custom timings, this do not apply to the files I am posting here)

after you made your own profile, make sure that before flashing the SPD's RAM, you select an option called "Correct Checksum" in the menu bar list (I believe it's called

EEPROM). failing to do so will result into a corrupted RAM module, so be sure to do your homework before flashing.




enjoy

 

If you want to use traffic as a simplistic example then;
1.) the bit width is the number of lanes
2.) the MHZ is the speed of the cars traveling in the lanes
3.) Cas number is the maximum car length between the cars in the lanes

 

nice!!