Official ICD7 Thread

when you put it like that, that explains a lot. However, (from my perspective) when i initially came across this thread and read that the vast majority of people saw a temperature decrease after ICD7 application, I simply assumed the same hence my disappointment when the expected "result" failed to occur.

 

I've used ICD 7. I have a significant drop of temperatures. (12-17 degrees celcius) I applied on both CPU and GPU.

Only one downside: It's pretty hard to apply due to the thickness of the material.. I had to heat it up a while to make it spread better.

 

Well, there are a number of factors that played into your "disappointment"......the 45W processor matched with a HSF designed for a 25W processor......running 8+ hours of stress testing on a notebook.....it all boils down to the HSF just cant move the heat generated fast enough, so it doesnt matter how well the thermal compound transfers the heat from the core to the HSF. Since the heat isnt being moved, its building up in the HSF, thermal compoun d, core, and probably the entire socket area.....which explains your temps.

Look into a heavy duty water cooling setup, dry ice, LN2, or phase cooling

It is difficult to apply, but thats why I strongly encourage people to use a larger application ....the pressure of the HSF will spread it out just fine.

 

Sorry if it's been asked, but any removal of stock CPU to replace or change pastes voids warranty right? So this is a risk?

 

Technically speaking....yes. But thats an issue with any CPU/HSF/Thermal Compound changeout.

According to both INTEL and AMD, they can claim your warranty void if you use any aftermarket cooler or thermal compound......but in reality, as long as there is no physical damage (scrapes on the IHS or Core, broken PCB, burnt contacts, etc), your warranty should be fine.

The 7811 FX has a sticker on the CPU silicon, which isnt attacked to anything, like the motherboard.......I think as long as that sticker is intact you are fine.....but as always, do any upgrades or modifications at your own risk.

 

I actually could get my hands on some dry ice and/or LN2 from the lab where i work....trouble is trying to find something suitable to transport it back home lol.

 

A cooler will generally transport dry ice pretty well... what do you need it for? (curiosity has gotten my attention )

 

Capper5016 jokingly suggested innovative ways to cool my X9100 equipped p7805u given that my ICD7 application "failed" to lower temps.

 

ah lol Well a liquid nitrogen system or phase cooling would work as well. But i'm pretty sure you shouldn't have to use all of that.

Thermal paste and Undervolting should make it fine

My x9000 is running at 32 degrees right now (and i still haven't activated undervolting since i got up this morning) Sad thing is... my 500GB hard drive is running 34 degrees

 

trouble is the notebook is already sitting on a 12V supplied Cryo LX + NB-MA1 USB extractor fan attached on CPU outlet vent; it's undervolted to 1.05V @ 11x (maximal performance profile, 11x p-state only at all times) and has ICD7 applied on CPU and northbridge.

All this and idle temps hover around the 45C mark. Stress tested on OCCT 3.1 and Core Damage and CPU rose to 80C (8hours+). My disappointment simply stems from the fact that I didnt see much difference before/after ICD7 whereas the vast majority of users have, irrespective of CPU.

 

Let's take this and generalize somewhat:

A CPU will generate a certain amount of heat under a specific load.

A specific HSF can dissipate a certain amount of heat.

While the various pastes, for the most part, may be very close in specs to the amount of heat they can transfer from the CPU to the HSF (although some may spec out better), the quality of the installation (complete coverage, no bubbles, etc.) will go a long way toward the overall efficiency of the heat dissipation of a particular installation.

Someone with a near perfect setup with any good paste may be getting very close to the optimum.

The fact that relative "noobs" can remove the "professionally installed" paste and replace it with ICD7 and then report a better (cooler) set of temps would seem to show that overall, the ICD7 will give close to the best results most of the time due to it's ease of installation.

Hello_Moto may have been one of the very fortunate ones who actually had a very well done system, which seems to be supported by the fact that the ICD7 didn't change anything very much.

Except - he should now feel comfortable that he has a system being cooled as well as possible without making any sort of major alterations.

At least, that's my take.

 

What you, and a few others, evidently, are missing is the part about 8+ hrs of stress testing....seriously......8+ hrs! Lets all run our notebooks at 100% load for 8+ hous and I'm sure all of us would have some pretty high temperatures.

Again....a 45W processor under a HSF built for a 25W processor, then stressed to 100% for an insanely long duration....the temperatures are not surprising......the thermal compound isnt even close to being the issue here.

 

I always stress-test for long periods of time, overnight if possible. I've presumed that to be the norm for OC stability/TIM application; obviously i'm mistaken as Capper doesnt seem to share my enthusiasm for 8hours + of notebook stress testing.

how long do you normally Orthos/OCCT/Core Damage, out of sheer curiosity?

 

You really want to stress test... use OCCT lol

 

I do...OCCT 3.1. It generates nice graphs! Also use Orthos and more recently, Core Damage.

 

That is separate from what I was saying.

However, on this issue I agree with you.

 

Cant be that bad though, unless the 78xx series really downgraded the cooling system.

I'm running an x9000 (44 watt just like x9100) in my 6860 and i idle at about 32-34 degrees once my thermal goop settled

 

Acer used a very basic cooler, pretty generic. the 45W processor vs 25W cooler is not an opinion, its fact. maybe you are idling at -15C, but take into account things like ambient temperature, supporting surface (desk, lap, car seat, etc).......there are quite a few variables to take into consideration. As Moto's CPU was an ES, it might be an early revision.....it might have come of a crappy part of the platter, who knows.

If people want to run 8+ hrs of OCCT, thats perfectly fine......but this is not a desktop, its a mobile platform.....even if it is a desktop replacement.... and aside from benchmarking just to benchmark, I think its a little bit of overkill.

I realize that most of us here like to tinker, and thats great.....but you also have to be realistic in your expectations of not just the thermal compound, but also in the notebook as well.

 

I ViciousXUSMC hereby support this statement.

 

Im going to make alot of people mad with this statement but here it is. Stress testing like this is dumb! you know in the army we just got these fairly new trucks called MRAP's that are better armed against IED's. They stress tested those with explosives, BECAUSE that is what it will be used for. Stress testing you CPU for hours on end with a program that puts it under a huge load is nowhere near the same. Are you ever going to play a game that is going to max out you CPU like these programs for eight hours? Probably not so this to me is just a waste of time. Now let the hate flow

 

No, you are exactly correct......I just dont see the point in this......if you were overclocking and testing for stability, then yes.......but this is a damned notebook.

 

email sent

 

Stress testing is done for a worst case scenario.

You want to make sure that no matter what happens you computer and overclock are stable.

There are games out there that can put your cpu under 100% load or close to it for extended amounts of time.

If not a computer game, video encoding will "get er done" it always puts the cpu under 100% load. Just to encode the HD prototype game clip I put on youtube the other day, a 6 minute clip it took like 2 hours to encode (I used really insanely high quality settings)

So you can imagine a 2 hour movie would put my computer under load for maybe an entire 24 hours.

The reason I upgraded my laptop was for a quad core cpu so that I can do that kind of encoding.

So yes some testing for stability is maybe overkill for the average person, but you want to atleast make sure your computer is stable and the temps are ok with some moderate stress testing.

There is nothing worse than assuming something is stable and then finding out its not the hard way.

 

Same here I do alot of video encoding, also if you buy aftermarket parts you want to do the stress testing to make sure they don't fail on you

 

Well, saying as we are talking about a notebook that cannot be overclocked, 8+ hrs of OCCT is really a waste of time. Run it for an hour or two to make sure the temps are manageable and the HSF and thermal compound was applied correctly, and there are no other issues.
For a desktop, stress test away....two very different scenarios.

LOL.......ok, I have to call BS on this one. I can encode probably a dozen movies at the highest DivX quality in 24 hrs.

Most games stress the GPU far more than the CPU......

No one is debating that, the only thing being debated is the need to stress test a notebook CPU for 8+ hours......why not download CPUgenie and run the built in undevoltage/stability test? The CPU is not overclocked, and unless there is something wrong with it, then running 60-90 minutes is more than enough. Again, the issue at heart is a 45W processor in a 25W notebook, and complaining about the temps....although they are still within spec. The CPU is at 70C under 8+ hrs of load, which is fine, but the TZ0/1 temps are at 80C......please realize that that small copper heatpipe and aluminum heatsink is about maxed out....so yeah, there are far worse things than finding out something is unstable......like burning up a perfectly good CPU/GPU/Notebook.
I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but I'm not sure if its a matter of people misunderstanding the issue, or people just wanting to argue.

 

CPUgenie any good?

My marathon OCCT sessions are an old habit originating from OCing my acer aspire 1693 from 1.86GHz to 2.3GHz using setFSB.

Didnt think this would spark off such a debate!

 

CPU genie is a very good program, try it for the 15 day trial, and if you like it, spend the $14.

Been in this industry a long time, forums can be really great and really bad.......sometimes. You have no idea who is giving you advice, their qualifications, or experience. I dont like "debating" with people about stuff like this.....I'll just say do some research on your own, experiment, etc..... Just remember to be safe, take your time, and use multiple sources for your information.

 

If you were a manufacturer of a system and decided to upgrade components you would run a stress against the component and related or other affected items. The same comes true here, you are essentialy creating a new model and a stress test is in order.

Now there are original design contraints, especially of the cooling system. So it goes without saying that you shouldn't complain when a system designed for a 25w TPD now handles a 45w TPD and then within original design tollerance.

When I put in the P9600 QS I went through a two hour stress test with Prime95, and I did the same once ICD was put in. This more than satisfied my confidence of the system handling the upgrade and the CPU's performance.

Now there is nothing wrong with an eight hour test. So long as you have the time to spare, then knock yourself out. Just know, if it doesn't fail in the first hour or so it is rare it will fail in eight hours unless you are running at the bleeding edge of the components capabilty.............

 

i'll keep that in mind. thanks.

 

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<venting>I'm just gonna add this last bit and be done with the whole thing (Yes I am irritated because I'm tired of seeing people just be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, or plain giving bad advice.)

This reminds me of when I started this whole ICD7 thing....After doing literally hundreds of hours of testing with it (and other thermal compounds), I found it to be a major upgrade over thermal pads in video cards and notebooks.......only to have more than a few self appointed "experts" here scream and holler about how there was no way it would work, etc......then when more than 95% of the people who participate in a trial see improvements....be it minor, or more likely dramatic.......you dont hear a peep from those "experts"....no argument, no admitting they were wrong, nothing....they just move on to the next thing they know everything about.

Am I irritated? Most definitely.......Say the same thing over and over? Hell yes, because I'll come back and check the responses and shake my head, people seem to post just to post, either saying the exact same thing, or bringing up stuff that has little or nothing to do with the original issue. The problem with that is that it only confuses the person asking the question....</venting>
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<venting>I'm just gonna add this last bit and be done with the whole thing (Yes I am irritated because I'm tired of seeing people just be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, or plain giving bad advice.)

This reminds me of when I started this whole ICD7 thing....After doing literally hundreds of hours of testing with it (and other thermal compounds), I found it to be a major upgrade over thermal pads in video cards and notebooks.......only to have more than a few self appointed "experts" here scream and holler about how there was no way it would work, etc......then when more than 95% of the people who participate in a trial see improvements....be it minor, or more likely dramatic.......you dont hear a peep from those "experts"....no argument, no admitting they were wrong, nothing....they just move on to the next thing they know everything about.

Am I irritated? Most definitely.......Say the same thing over and over? Hell yes, because I'll come back and check the responses and shake my head, people seem to post just to post, either saying the exact same thing, or bringing up stuff that has little or nothing to do with the original issue. The problem with that is that it only confuses the person asking the question....</venting>
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Hoping the IC Diamond 7 Carat free offer is still on, I would like to try it on my Dell XPS M1330. Am sending Andrew an e-mail for a freebie.

Has anyone here tried it instead of the copper mod? If so, what was your experience.

cheers.

 

I didn't see anyone say it wouldn't work, at least not to my memory. My only issue was should it replace a pad on a non preasured contact surface. Even with this I had exreemly high confidence in the product being perfect for the job at hand. So much so that I purchased ICD 24 before this thread even started.

Do we get off topic, sorry we are human and I personally appologize for offending you. Do I agree that running a 45w TPD in a 25w design and getting away with it is a good thing, yes I do.............

When you are a tech, for Gateway or others, you have to tow the company line. If the original design specs say it will not handle 35w TPD let alone 45w TPD then you say it won't until there is a company memo saying it will......

Do I place much faith in company specs saying what can or can't be done with a system and overclocking etc, my past speaks for itself there...............

 

I can't speak to the effectiveness over a copper mod as I hadn't had one. I can speak to the fact it works fine with ICD. A personall recomendation is to use 2x as much paste on the northbridge as the CPU. There will be a larger gap to fill over the NB as compared to the CPU and the extra will be sure the gap gets filled while still fully covering the NB chip.

Also be sure to use the instructions provided by ICD. This does not apply like the old thin pastes.

 

Yes I'm grumpy, my apologies. It just frustrates me to no end to see some of the advice, and expertise passed along here sometimes.

Oh, there was more than a few at the beginning of this thread and the other thread where this came up........all of whom strangely disappeared when results showed that it would work.......it wasn't my point here, just something that supported the argument I made about people giving advice without really knowing what they were talking about.

You have never offended me, and that's not what I am implying.....what I am implying, and I think we need to really work on as a community is people not posting as fact without knowing what they are talking about, or not giving an opinion without something to support it (links, facts, silly stuff like that).

Here's the deal about that, and a fact many enthusiast dont think about.....modding anything is at your own risk. These companies build and sell a product with a certain intention or market, and we as enthusiast try to reverse engineer stuff, dissect it, and get everything we can out of it without breaking it.......that's all good and fine. Will this specific HSF support a 45W processor, or a quad core processor? Probably, but it might significantly shorten the operating life, or kill hardware (the heat generated may be too hard on caps or resistors on the mainboard considering the ventilation....the heat pipe and aluminum sink on the chipset and connecting the CPU may be inadequate for the heat generated, etc). In the end, with a desktop you can always upgrade the cooling, or rewire your enclosure, etc.....with a notebook you are much more restricted.

Also, think about this......ever look at an enthusiast motherboard? Know why they use high quality capacitors and mosfets around the CPU socket? Its because of the extreme amount of heat generated around that area, and the stress it puts on the board and processor. Now think about that same amount of heat generated in an enclosed area like your notebook....with a far smaller cooler, and far worse airflow....then remember that this is a budget notebook (Honestly, its a cheap chassis with some really good supporting hardware)....so dont be surprised to see some of these people throwing these 45W processors in there having dead notebooks in 6 months to a year.

A 45W processor works, we know that....but we also know that it generates significantly more heat than a 25W processor......this is why they release these newer revisions and smaller dies......to use less electricity and therefore generate less heat.

What I am trying to get across is at some point, there is always going to be some limiting factor........enthusiasts usually use a cheaper processor and overclock it using a good board, good memory, and exceptional cooling....at some point the CPU is going to reach its limit. In another scenario, a guy uses a Ci 975 EE processor with the stock HSF......here the HSF is the limiting factor.......get my point? Unless its a perfect scenario, at some point one piece is going to max out, reach its peak, and bottleneck the rest of the system.......with motos rig, its a combination of a 45W processor, a 25W HSF, and a ridiculously long benchmark.

Do I? Yes I do, and I have worked with these companies for the past 7-8 yrs. There are warranties and specs for a reason, and choosing to ignore them is up to the individual.

The copper mod does work, we know that.....the issue was that the copper mod is a pain in the , and is in a sense counter productive in that you are creating 3 layers of mixed material that the heat must pass through, which is/can be counterproductive. We have also seen where ICD7 offers the same/better performance than the copper mod....while also being able to replace the stock thermal compound used in these notebooks.........dont even get me started on the performance/lifespan of the thermal pads, they are the most generic of the most generic.

Amen to that, I cant stress enough....take the time to read instructions, take the time to research, and be careful.

 

it seems that everybody is having fun here.........

 

I have used that Evercool cooler before and it actually raises my CPU's idle temps. It sucks the air out of the vent faster than the amount taken in, hence causing a "vacuum" where heat transfer is reduced, causing high idle temps

 

lol that makes sense - the NB-MA1 was also overvolted to 12V via the Cro's USB ports; it sure did suck out a vast quantity of air and was extremely noisy (@12v) too. Probably explains the idle temps.

Going to reduce it to running at the rated 5v in specs from a powered USB hub and see if that imporves things. If not, it's being removed altogether.

 

So how's the situation now?

 

not much difference! GAH! still idling around 47C. Oh well.

 

47 on your CPU or GPU.... anyway that's not bad

 

47C X9100 idle (with ICD7)
49C GPU idle (no ICD7)

 

What is the Clock speed on your X9100... stock or OC?

 

standard 3.06GHz.

 

I guess this offer does not count for those living in Europe?

Would be happy to post results, as I'm willing to replace my notebooks thermal pads for some time now. I'd even pay for the shipping costs, if they are reasonable.

 

Andrew only seems willing to post free samples to long standing reputable community member ie. people with lot of rep and/or post count.

I initially considered the same approach that you are currently employing but decided against it. Got mine shipped from Canada to UK via ebay seller "nademon":-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Innovation-Co...rksid=p3286.m63.l1177&_trkparms=|293:1|294:50

he also sells the 7 carat variant. Speedy dispatch and smooth transaction. Recommended!

 

Yeah, I already thought so, but figured it was worth a shot. Too bad, I would try to do it really thorough.

Thanks for the tip though, will look into that.

 

Gidday guys

Well, applied the ICD7 after using AS5 to the notebook in my signature. Unfortunately, in my haste to apply it, I didn't bother testing with the AS5, so have no direct figures to compare it to. I ran Orthos Prime for 30 minutes, with my CPUs both at 100%, temps maxed at 62 and 64 degrees. Does this sound reasonable?

Regards to all

 

Well, because I had nothing to do last night, I cleaned off the ICD7, reapplied AS5 and ran Orthos Prime again for half an hour. To my surprise and disappointment, my temps were identical. Lokks like (at least for me) ICD7 was a bust. Oh well, can't win em all.

Regards to all.

 

Too bad you put the AS5 back on, ICD7 will last longer.

Should have read the entire thread first