P-6860FX 8800M GTS dying/dead?

with that option, and the option to replace the CPU on this lappy, I almost feel like this machine is actually a PC.

 

Well, you can do this with almost any machine.

The reason why people don't do it more often is probably because you are limited to certain architectures. For example, there is no g84 55nm b1 revision, and the g96 architecture is not the same even tho they both have 32 shaders. So you can't get anything better out of a laptop with the 8700m or 8600m GT.

The 9600m and 9700m however can be upgraded to a c1 BGA in the same way if anyone desired to do that. These cards didn't fail nearly as much tho and again there is no g96 with more shaders or anything.

I am someone who would be particularly ambitious if I had a BGA reball station. I think that some different architectures may be compatible.
At some point, I hope to bring gddr5 to old, small, Acer MXM 2.1 II laptops. There was recently found a gt 240m MXM 2.1 II which works in Acer systems. Now, the gt 216 architecture of the 240m does not support gddr5, but the closely related gt215 architecture of cards like the gts 360m does support it.

VRAM is BGAs too. And most vRAM shares the same pinout.
So, you could potentially find some laptops and this would be very useful, like budget laptops with the 5850 gddr3.

In fact, there are currently very few high performance MXM 3.0 A cards, except for the 6770m. There are plenty of gts 250m, but none of them are gddr5.

The one problem I face is the vBIOS here, because I know for a fact it would require some much more serious modification to change from gddr3 to gddr5....

 

So you're saying that if I get the system and this chip shipped to the ebay link that devil mentioned, I could ask them to replace the existing chip with this? Any possibility I could do this on my own?

Has this replacement been done before on the 6831FX? I'm guessing it will run hotter than the 8800m, and I'll probably need to add some cooling to the notebook to keep it within limits. I wouldn't mind giving it a shot, but living in India means it HAS to work to even consider sending it all the way to the US, and dealing with all the associated customs crap.

 

The GPU is no longer working and has become disconnected once again. I am experiencing the same issues as before. I have asked L2 Computer Inc. whether they will allow me to ship it back at no charge. If not I will demand a full refund. I've only had it for a little over 2 weeks. Clearly they did not reball (re-solder) the GPU or else I would not be experiencing the same already. In all honesty I should probably just get a full refund and then bake it myself considering that had to have been what they did. I wasn't even playing a game when it stopped working. I noticed it right after I started playing a high quality video and it was very laggy.

 

Yep, I bet they didn't.
I thought you told me they would only do a reball if they thought it was necessary?

Yes you should be able to ask them to do this.

They will test it, and they can't necessarily tell the difference from themselves screwing up or my 'theory' being wrong. So they will refund you if it doesn't work, or maybe they will just reball the original BGA after they tell you.

You'd be using a 8800m GTS vBIOS on a gtx 280m.
Complications I have noticed with flashing other cards vBIOS like a 9800m to 280m were I think due to the MXM graphics board, which in this case is non existent, so its irrelevant.
You may just have to modify drivers, but honestly if some people who are good at that hears about this they will be more than willing.

The gtx 280m is 55nm and already runs on the same voltage which is 1v. With the given vBIOS it will run at lower clocks and you could even undervolt it with still better performance.

No one has done this, period, on any laptop. I don't know why.

Do you know what a BGA is?
Its like an IC but without pins. Instead, all the conductors are completely under the chip. More like a CPU without pins, soldered directly to the motherboard. There is very little chance you could do it yourself, the manufacturers use large machines with infrared heat.

On the other hand, these BGAs come with solder balls. You can easily melt the solder with a heatgun.
I know conventionally you also have to use stencils for something, but I'm not really sure.

I don't see why you shouldn't give it a try first?
I will do some research...

 

If you are going to have them reball see if they can use older lead based solder instead of the ROHS stuff. Lead based solder will not become brittle like the newer ROHS solder so the problem shouldn't reoccur.

 

Alright, they provided me with a shipping label so no cost to ship it back to them. I have to get it back to them by August 11th or not covered under warranty.

I recommended they use lead based solder (thanks WARDOZER), but I severely doubt they're going to listen, but we'll see. They had heavy Asian accents which makes me doubt they're truly legit or at the very least a truly reputable shop, but whatever happens I will post it, so they better do a good job or else they are going to lose business.

Also, niff, they told me over the phone that they reballed it, so I'm holding them to their word.

I'll post the results once I get it back. Wish me luck!

 

Hope you have good luck. Problems like this didn't exist until companies started using the ROHS solder which contains no lead. Lead does become softer at lower temperatures but it keeps reflowing unlike the ROHS solder which becomes a little more brittle after each heat up/cool down cycle until it eventually loses the ability to reflow at very high temperatures leading to breakage which is what causes the problems with chips that run as hot as the G80's and others. IF of course they did use high end ROHS solder or more of it as the later cards recieved, this problem also would not occurr.

Personally I say if you are going to have a chip reballed you might as well go with the sure thing and use lead based solder ( go cry me a river tree huggers ) and prevent the problem without worry.

You could even use silver solder paste but it's a good deal more expensive than ROHS or lead based solder but it also withstands much higher temperatures while cunducting electrical currents far better.

 

L2 states they use "high-end" ROHS solder. We'll see if the 2nd time works. Just shipped the laptop to them yesterday.

 

Bake it.

Baked mine 4 or 5 times over the course of the past year and a half and I'm still gaming on it. I've got the whole process down to 2 hours.

Depending on how well you match the temperature and bake time the fix will last you anywhere between 2 weeks and 4 months. Best of all it's free.

 

Wysocki, I travel a lot and I need this to a permanent fix. I can't have this happen to me while I'm on the road, but I appreciate the message. Others might be able to do what you do. If it were garaunteed to work for 4 months I might do it, but considering this last time only lasted 2 weeks (and they supposedly reballed the thing) I'll see if they can fix it permanently or for at least 1.5 years. We'll see. If it ends up breaking again I'll look into baking it.

 

I've found a company in my city who has a BGA reball station.

I might try to work for them as someone who knows how to do specific upgrades like this...

Of course I would have to find to broken gateway to do it...
I realized I don't have any laptops with a soldered gpu at all... lol.

 

Just to update - It died after a month and 1 day. Then I rebaked it and it's working again. FYI.

 

Still no laptop and no ETA. Tech is "still working on it". Going on three weeks now isn't making me a very happy camper...

 

devdevil...I haven't read all of the posts but I hope you have a back up computer. I couldn't exist without my computer for even 2 days.

 

Nope. No true backup. I'm sharing an old Dell with my wife and I think you know who gets most of that sharing time.... pretty much using my phone to do everything I absolutely need.

 

@niffcreature
Hi!

I have Gateway P-6860FX with this unlucky G92-700-A1 revision, can I really exchange this card with g92-751-b1? It will really work? Gateway's one has 512 mb but the rev b-1 works with 1Gb. Soldering the Rev-B1 will work? How about bios after soldering with B1

I could buy Nvidia chipset from:
1pc nVIDIA G92-751-B1 BGA chipset NEW | eBay

 

Yes, it SHOULD just work. But no, you cannot solder it yourself you need a BGA reball station.

 

Ok, laptop is finally back and working again. I will continue using it for the remainder of the month playing SC2 and some other games. If it doesn't break then I'll call it good for now. If it ever stops working I will let you all know so you don't waste your money like I did.

 

Just a hypothetical question. If your computer does break again (Past there Warranty) are you going to do ? Bake it .

Also What did they do to fix it this time. I sort of had the same thing like you guys but I am just blacked screened out.

 

I would go to PayPal and ask for half of what I paid back. They said they would offer me my money back if they couldn't fix it and in my opinion if it breaks within even a year it was not fixed. They never told me what they did. I asked if they reballed, but all the person would say is the technician fixed it. We'll never really know sadly. I would honestly stay away from them. They had thick asian accents and just seemed very shady. They never gave me any statuses and it took almost a month for them to fix it the second time. I was not happy. You probably are better off baking it.

 

Hi folks,

I have a P-6831FX laptop with similar symptoms (streaks show at BIOS screen, video card not detected by Windows xp, can't load games/laggy graphics). I had a feeling that either the mobo or the GPU was dying on me since I kept getting random crashes recently while playing (TF2, Deus Ex HR, Fallout 3).

At first I thought it may be a loose wire somewhere so I found a guide and took the whole thing apart, did some cleaning and everything looked normal then I put it back together but the symptoms didn't go away.

I thought I had no other choice but to get a new mobo until I stumbled upon this thread. As some of you stated, baking may temporarily fix the problem but I don't want to deal with this often.

I was about to email L2 but then hesitated when devdevil85 reported their fix didn't quite work the 1st time around.

Any suggestions besides baking it? Is BGA reballing _THE_ fix?

 

Well, if you use a new BGA like a g92 b1 revision, then they have to reball it.

If you get a repair done by a company and its not a reball, then its exactly the same as baking it yourself.

There are definitely companies in the USA who do reball. There is one in my city. You just have to look for them. I think they usually do a wide range of stuff and mostly xboxes with BGAs.

 

Is that a replacement GPU chip? I saw your previous posts mentioned this but I didn't quite get it. If it is a replacement, which is the one compatible for my system? (P-6831 FX, nVidia 8800m GTS)

I'd like to know how much it would cost to permanently fix, if it is too expensive then I may consider baking or selling it.

I'm in the same boat as the OP, first gaming laptop and the first time something like this has happened to me.

 

It should cost about 100$ for a good GPU reball in my opinion. I don't know a lot of companies personally so that part is up to you.
I do know a lot of them are totally willing to do the BGA replacement for no extra charge with a reball.

Yes, it is a replacement. There is no B1 revision to the 8800m GTS, it doesn't work like that.
Even though the gts 160m is essentially the same but 55nm and b1, it is g94 based which is a different architecture.

This is simply the way nvidia branding and architectures work. Luckily, the 8800m GTS is based on the same g92 core of MANY other cards, so essentially you can upgrade to a gtx 260m and it will still be recognized as an 8800m GTS but will be a lot more powerful.

The whole b1 business has to do with 2 things.
1 the solder and underfill of the BGA core which is manufactured differently. Even if you reball (new solder) an A1 revision core, the underfill can cause failure.
The B1 revision chips are fixed. They come with solder when you buy them usually so the repair company can use the newer solder.
2 is the manufacturing process also, but is more commonly known. The newer chips are 55nm, which improves efficiency and lowers heat output.

Now, like I said, there isn't simply a revised 8800m GTS. The g92 core was revised for the purpose of the 100m and 200m series, because Nvidia is a horrible deceptive company.

But also, there isn't even a g92 b1 card which is at all similar to the 8800m GTS in specifications.
Hence why the only choice is, when you replace the BGA with a B1 revision, to upgrade to the gtx 260m. This is the only compatible BGA replacement on the market. The core name is g92-751-b1.

The heat output IS more than the 8800m GTS, but the voltage is the same, AND because of the Gateway BIOS the clocks will be 50mhz slower than a normal 260m, reducing heat a little more.

If you want my advice, honestly I would be willing to talk to the company who does gpu reball in my area and I will make sure they will handle it and do everything properly, you'd only have to ship it within the USA.

 

Thanks for the info niffcreature.

Sounds great, but could you send me a PM? It seems I'm not allowed to send messages.

 

You have to post 2 more times to send or receive messages

 

I see, thanks!

 

How about now?

My apologies to the OP for the extra unnecessary posts! I'm having game withdrawals already, I hope you understand

 

Alright, the GPU is no longer connected to the motherboard. Same symptoms as last time. Do not go with L2. They will not fix your GPU issues. They just baked it and acted like it was fixed. I contacted PayPal. Sadly I was over the 45 day limit to open a case. They recommended that I contact them the first time I had issues besides just L2. They said that they will flag L2 if they don't give me money back. If they don't give me my money back then the last resort would be to contact my credit card company and have them get my money back.

niff, can you provide me with an address or contact number for the company that does GPU reball in your area? If so that would be awesome!

If not, I guess I'll have to buy a used Asus from a friend and sell this one.

 

Sorry to hear about that and thanks for the heads up.

 

Np, they don't deserve anyone's money if they can't fix what they say they will.

Did niff provide you with that company's information?

 

I'll let you know if that happens

 

I just spoke to someone who does BGA reball/reflow in San Jose, CA (about 3 hrs from where I live) and he said $75 (as long as I send the board by itself). Pm me if you're interested and I'll give you company details.

I'm broke at the moment but as soon as I'm able to afford it I'll have them install that chip niffcreature suggested so I know for sure they worked on it.

 

I'll post the info soon of the company I know.

I think their rates are a little better. Also, I've talked to the owner before.

I should mention that the new g92b core should not cost 100$. You should be able to find one for like 30$.

And, g92-751 is not the only one you can use... Its just the only one made for mobile cards on the market.
Any g92 core should work. There is a g92-421 and 428, literally a ton of options.

The deal with these chips is that they are for desktop cards. Almost all of them have the full 128 shaders enabled instead of 112 of the gtx 260m. And, just to give you an example, the 421 was for a Asus gt 250, with a core clock of 740mhz, thats almost 50% higher than the 260m.

The reason this is not necessarily a good thing? Because, its not that the BGA itself makes it run at 740mhz or at any given voltage. If you were to replace the BGA of the 8800m GTS with this one, it would still run it at 1v, 500mhz. And, it may not be stable, because on the gt 250 the voltage could be 1.01v or 1.1v which is a huge difference (very few mobile cards of similar architectures have ever been rated that high).

Its a little bit of a risk, but personally I would buy another b1 core if I could find it for cheaper. There MAY be a way to change the voltage by modifying the BIOS of this laptop, but I think you all would know more about that than me.

I should mention.... If anyone chooses the company in my area, I would be willing to donate a BGA, because I have an Asus gtx 260m. But they might want to charge more because they'd have to remove it.

 

New info:

Apparently its actually possible to do a full GPU reball or BGA replacement with a heatgun.
You need some solder balls, a stencil, and flux.

I'm going to try it ASAP.

 

Also, I was able to find the motherboard for this laptop that has a gtx 260m onboard.

GX-N10 motherboard G92-751-B1 promise the quality - Detailed info for GX-N10 motherboard G92-751-B1 promise the quality,GX-N10 motherboard,GX-N10 motherboard G92-751-B1 promise the quality, GX-N10 on Alibaba.com

 

From a website named Alibaba?

 

I probably should have just gone with a local guy on craigslist instead of through eBay. I found a guy who does PS3/360 repair and he said he could have done it for $140 and he would've guaranteed it to work for at least 6 months. He would've used lead-based solder.

He says that the government doesn't allow devices that are considered residential (where kids could be) to have lead in them anymore which is why they have to use less capable solder.

I would do that in a heartbeat if I get my money back.

 

I don't know if I'd spend 140$, just taking a look at the price of that board with the gtx 260m built in.

What do you mean by that?
You're not making yourself clear.

Alibaba is a well known trusted site, tho not among consumers like yourself, they are popular with businesses and large suppliers.

If you think a site like Ebay is in some way more secure, you're quite wrong, as Ebay sellers may still only take credit card payments and/or other payment options considered to be unsafe. Just like Alibaba.

Your safety is NOT judged by what a website tells you to do, at least I hope you're not that gullible. Security in online transactions is about exactly who you send your personal bank account or credit card info to. Which for most people, is paypal only, because paypal guarantees all items to be as described or your money back for 40 days.

Not to come of as lecturey or to make you out as ignorant, but there are too many rampant misconceptions being spread about online business these days. So I can't really let an ambiguous statement like yours go unchecked.

 

This is what I heard as well..

Just got a price check for that board, $160 + $30 SH to US. Skyline has a board for my laptop at $379 (ripoff!)... if it's less than repairing the one I already have then I might consider it. I would still need the processor though so I may salvage the one I already have.

If those console repair shops are able to do it then I may not need to ship my mobo anywhere.

Where do you think these computers were assembled? The real question here is: what is not made in China?

 

Most of my video cards are made in the USA. Yep I don't believe I will ever be able to explain that.

Most console repair shops will probably offer REFLOW not REBALL!!!
So when I said you can do it with a heatgun, I mean you can actually remove the BGA and replace all the solder with a heatgun. I don't know why you would risk more repairs and 140$ when you can do it yourself.

I don't know why you would need a CPU. Do you have a socket M core1 duo or something? 800mhz FSB cpus will run just fine on 1066mhz chipsets.

 

If I get my money back (which would be $137.50) I would be willing to give the guy a shot. I know nothing about reballing or reflowing and don't feel comfortable doing it. He guarantees that his reballs work for 6 months or my money back. Not a bad deal tbh.

 

Well, I'm going to start doing this. If I have success, I will do it for you for, uh, 60$ including shipping?

 

If I get my money back then I'd be willing to do $60 with shipping. I know I'm not the only person with this issue. You're bound to get more customers

 

I just got my motherboard back from the BGA rework shop. I assembled it back together just now and it works!

I will keep testing and will post here if anything happens, for now I'm just happy to have my computer back.

 

What is the skill level involved and cost of tools and parts for doing this yourself? I am tired of taking this thing apart just to put it in the oven for 10 minutes once a week.

 

Update

I had to postpone the testing for a few days until I got a replacement heatsink for the GPU, thanks a lot UPS... the card would reach 80C while watching a youtube vid in 720p fullscreen.

Anyway I got the replacement today along with some ICD7 paste which I applied on the GPU, CPU and Northbridge chips. Just tested it on Youtube again (720p/fullscreen) and the card holds between 48-50C. I will try and run some video stress tests to see how the card performs but so far so good.

 

Not bad considering I was not using a notebook cooler and it was just on a flat table surface. Ambient temperature was 27.7C (82F).

 

Tested today using a new notebook cooler, the Cooler Master Storm SF 19. Temperature was at a steady 64C in furmark.